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Author Topic: Weird Infinity Issue - possible HR fault?  (Read 30981 times)

Bald_Eagle1

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Re: Weird Infinity Issue - possible HR fault?
« Reply #75 on: August 02, 2015, 08:49:06 AM »

Even then, if I get as far as an engineer visit, I'd have to show him the Hlog and hope he's bothered enough to sort it out.

What would be required in terms of resolving a bridged tap?


This JDSU document explains bridged taps:-

http://www.jdsu.com/ProductLiterature/sctpsbridgedtap_an_tfs_tm_ae.pdf


For anything between your NTE & the cabinet, you would have to rely on an engineer agreeing to check for & remedy any potential bridged taps.

You Hlog graph may assist in convincing him that it is worth checking out.

It is not unknown for bridged taps to have been left in place when D-side cabling partial pair swaps have been conducted over the years, probably  from pre-broadband days when a new customer was connected to & the pair extended from a previously ceased connection & when it didn't really matter too much.


In your own home, it could be extension or wiring or even an alarm company having incorrectly connected to the line before or at the NTE.

Maybe a 'dodgy' faceplate or dangly filter could also have a similar effect in that the phone & DSL signals are not sufficiently 'separated'?



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Black Sheep

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Re: Weird Infinity Issue - possible HR fault?
« Reply #76 on: August 02, 2015, 09:11:26 AM »

Even then, if I get as far as an engineer visit, I'd have to show him the Hlog and hope he's bothered enough to sort it out.

What would be required in terms of resolving a bridged tap?


This JDSU document explains bridged taps:-

http://www.jdsu.com/ProductLiterature/sctpsbridgedtap_an_tfs_tm_ae.pdf


For anything between your NTE & the cabinet, you would have to rely on an engineer agreeing to check for & remedy any potential bridged taps.

You Hlog graph may assist in convincing him that it is worth checking out.

It is not unknown for bridged taps to have been left in place when D-side cabling partial pair swaps have been conducted over the years, probably  from pre-broadband days when a new customer was connected to & the pair extended from a previously ceased connection & when it didn't really matter too much.


In your own home, it could be extension or wiring or even an alarm company having incorrectly connected to the line before or at the NTE.

Maybe a 'dodgy' faceplate or dangly filter could also have a similar effect in that the phone & DSL signals are not sufficiently 'separated'?

I absolutely take your point, BE, but a bridged-tap on the actual D-side cable is extremely rare. It is more likely to be (as was in your situation), in the Cabinet on the Krone, Quante terminating strips. It can happen whereby the engineer won't notice there are a pair of wires already terminated on the EU's allocated termination. This is usually due to the amount of wire and position of the strip (generally low down and difficult to see), and they will inadvertently terminate their jumper-wire over the top of the existing wire. I know, as I've done it myself.  :blush:

There is a possibility of a bridged-tap on the D-side cabling if the EU is on an extremely long line. We used to do 'Bunched pairs' for these rare situations as their landline would be reported as 'Faint'. As touched upon by yourself, it didn't matter with PSTN (Dial tone frequencies).

However, seeing as the OP is getting 70Meg, he must be close to the Cabinet and as such the situation I mentioned above is highly unlikely to pertain to his circuit.  :)

 
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GigabitEthernet

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Re: Weird Infinity Issue - possible HR fault?
« Reply #77 on: August 02, 2015, 09:25:01 AM »

That sudden increase decrease in attenuation is just as likely to be due to an HR fault.

Is your line overhead?
« Last Edit: August 02, 2015, 09:40:51 AM by AlecR »
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: Weird Infinity Issue - possible HR fault?
« Reply #78 on: August 02, 2015, 09:36:36 AM »


There is a possibility of a bridged-tap on the D-side cabling if the EU is on an extremely long line. We used to do 'Bunched pairs' for these rare situations as their landline would be reported as 'Faint'. As touched upon by yourself, it didn't matter with PSTN (Dial tone frequencies).

However, seeing as the OP is getting 70Meg, he must be close to the Cabinet and as such the situation I mentioned above is highly unlikely to pertain to his circuit.  :)


I knew you would recall the extensive avenues we went down in researching my line's issues a few years ago  ;).

I admit we are possibly clutching at straws here & I would personally be more than happy to see anywhere near 40Mbps, never mind 70 Mbps, but I have seen quite a few user Hlog graphs lately that do indicate some sort of an issue (possibly relatively minor & not particularly service affecting), when compared with the ideal smooth graph shape.


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GigabitEthernet

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Re: Weird Infinity Issue - possible HR fault?
« Reply #79 on: August 02, 2015, 09:40:09 AM »

Perhaps our views differ on this but if the graphs show a clear issue (which I believe the OP's do), I don't think it is unreasonable to believe that the issue should be fixed.

There's an argument that the average user wouldn't be reporting this as an issue but that is irrelevant. It is a service you pay for and it should be fault-free.
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samwise78

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Re: Weird Infinity Issue - possible HR fault?
« Reply #80 on: August 02, 2015, 11:03:00 AM »

AlecR
Quiet line had a very very faint crackling for around 10 seconds but that was it..
Line is UG from cab to chamber across the road from me, then takes a pole-->pole-->house route (can chuck some more pics up later if it helps)
Bald_Eagle1
Thanks, I've read that doc before.
Am confident that there's no internal wiring connected, there are the remains of old drop wire and extension as visible on the pics I posted a few posts back - but I didn't think these would be the cause as they aren't connected to anything
Black Sheep
Line is 650m according to most resources.
I'm pretty happy with a 70Mb sync given my rural location.
Is it possible the Hlog "gap" is caused by anything else or is it likely to be another (or the original) HR fault?
Previous OR engineers told me I'd never get above 65Mb as there was ali in the cable run..
I notice that the SNR per tone also plummets to 0dB around Tone 2650 to 2795 which I assume is another marker for the same issue.

Thanks to all for the input so far, I'm weighing up the pros & cons of logging this out at the moment..

Cheers
Samwise
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GigabitEthernet

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Re: Weird Infinity Issue - possible HR fault?
« Reply #81 on: August 02, 2015, 11:07:56 AM »

Crackling sound indicates an HR fault. Log it with your telephone provider.
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Dray

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Re: Weird Infinity Issue - possible HR fault?
« Reply #82 on: August 02, 2015, 11:32:14 AM »

You can use the automated line checker to see if a fault is detected https://www.bt.com/consumerFaultTracking/public/faults/reporting.do?pageId=21
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samwise78

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Re: Weird Infinity Issue - possible HR fault?
« Reply #83 on: August 02, 2015, 01:07:05 PM »

No fault detected (as I expected)

I've just had an unexpected resync though:

Reason: 1 Remote Defect Indicator/DLM
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Dray

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Re: Weird Infinity Issue - possible HR fault?
« Reply #84 on: August 02, 2015, 01:19:38 PM »

The test does seem to reset the line, sometimes.
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samwise78

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Re: Weird Infinity Issue - possible HR fault?
« Reply #85 on: August 02, 2015, 01:33:31 PM »

Don't think running the test cause the resync, resync happened a good 45 mins later.

Stats show massive burst of CRCs & noise margin nosedive  :no:
I wasn't aware of the resync until afterwards so couldn't say if there was anything via quietline

Have re-opened the original HR fault ref with BT.

Curiouser & curiouser
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samwise78

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Re: Weird Infinity Issue - possible HR fault?
« Reply #86 on: August 09, 2016, 10:27:51 AM »

Holy thread resurrection Batman  :cool:

And a year later here we are still.

I've been so busy I never got to the bottom of this one, but after foolishly trying out the new BT "Smart" hub - realising the errors of my ways and redeploying the HG612, I have another fault logged and an engineer visit booked for Thursday.

Symptoms are still pretty much the same - although I'm getting sporadic bursts of errors through each day - as well as numerous resyncs - despite the noise margin appearing to hold..

I've been uploading to MDWS when possible - although it's only when this machine is logged in I'm afraid, hence the gaps.
Can someone take a look at my stats and advise best way forward? We still looking at a possible bridge tap?

Cheers
Samwise
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burakkucat

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Re: Weird Infinity Issue - possible HR fault?
« Reply #87 on: August 09, 2016, 11:14:35 AM »

We still looking at a possible bridge tap?

Tentatively, I'll say "yes". The certainly appears to be some infrastructure problem . . . a fault with the metallic pathway.  :-\
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samwise78

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Re: Weird Infinity Issue - possible HR fault?
« Reply #88 on: August 09, 2016, 11:47:15 AM »

Thanks burakkucat

Fingers crossed I get a diligent enough engineer to locate and resolve
The issue re-reared its head during the recent heatwave (another clue as to the issue maybe?)
Coupled with the testing and rejection of the Homehub 6, DLM stepped in and has banded my connection for good measure.

Cheers
Samwise


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burakkucat

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Re: Weird Infinity Issue - possible HR fault?
« Reply #89 on: August 09, 2016, 04:14:44 PM »

As you appreciate, the Hlog plot gives a very strong hint that something is not correct. As that obvious minimum is occurring at the junction of the US2 & DS3 bands and the higher frequencies of the US2 band are unusable, we are unable to fully quantify the frequency involved.
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