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Author Topic: Weird Infinity Issue - possible HR fault?  (Read 30575 times)

samwise78

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Weird Infinity Issue - possible HR fault?
« on: July 19, 2015, 10:18:26 AM »

Hi there,

Long first post (sorry)

I've been having intermittent issues for months with my Infinity, on activation was getting sync of 79995/20000 and all looked fine, was performing brilliantly.. For a couple of weeks. Then the resyncs began for no apparent reason, DLM woke up and I ended up with a 25Mb sync speed - was running a Homehub 5 (Type A) at that point.

Raised multiple faults throughout the saga, had multiple engineer visits:

Visit 1 - Engineer installed new drop wire and SSFP, line test was clear, DLM reset, full sync restored - for a week or so
Visit 2 - Engineer attended while I was at work, replaced my Hub with one he had in his van (?!) This rebooted itself after an hour or so and never came back, factory reset wouldn't work, so mithered the helpdesk constantly until they sent me a Type B as a replacement (I'm on a Huawei cab)
Once that arrived sync drops reduced drastically, however monitoring the connection via the noddy Helpdesk page showed me huge noise margin fluctuations and changing attenuation, quiet line showed nothing, but sync speed was slowly dropping back to sub 40Mb - upload sync was <1Mb, logged another fault.
Visit 3 - "Engineer" visited, did a PQT and said he couldn't do anything. He mentioned aluminium, also tried to tell me my sub 1Mb US sync was "because it was half-term", claimed the sync speed at the time was the best it could be (43Mb)  :lol:
Once I recovered from Visit 3 I escalated and got another appointment sorted.
Visit 4 - Boost engineer visited, tested line at my house and the pole, got a hoist out to replace a cover that was missing, still seeing a lot of errors, went to the cab and then sorted a lift and shift out due to a "faulty port"
Once this was sorted, here's where things get really weird (for me anyway)

He tested sync at the house while he was waiting for the lift and shift to complete, told me his JDSU had just had a firmware upgrade for vectoring, he got an 84Mb sync..  :o
When my "profile had been applied" got a seemingly solid 68/20Mb sync
Over the moon with that, considering the bull I'd been fed by the other engineers - although his 84Mb sync perplexes me..

Since then the drops have returned, but apparently only in the evening.
I can instigate one by picking up the phone and using it. Snap, crackle & pop obvious and gets worse and worse until sync is lost.
I can track the SNR loss on the "Helpdesk" page of the Hub, until it loses sync.
It will always then resync at an abysmal speed and then recover on its own a short while later.

See below:

After lift and shift

5.   VDSL uptime:      0 days, 17:28:24
6.   Data Rate:      19999 / 68206
7.   Maximum Data Rate:   21945 / 68651
8.   Noise Margin:      13.8 / 6.2
9.   Line Attenuation:   0.0 / 16.6
10.   Signal Attenuation:   0.0 / 0.0?

16/07/15 - HR fault? Resynced while on phone

5.   VDSL uptime:      0 days, 00:14:01
6.   Data Rate:      19999 / 47642
7.   Maximum Data Rate:   18638 / 36771
8.   Noise Margin:      3.9 / 2.0
9.   Line Attenuation:   0.0 / 17.7
10.   Signal Attenuation:   0.0 / 0.0

16/07/15 - resynced on its own 19:16

5.   VDSL uptime:   0 days, 00:08:18
6.   Data Rate:   19999 / 68776
7.   Maximum Data Rate:   22393 / 69584
8.   Noise Margin:   14.1 / 6.4
9.   Line Attenuation:   0.0 / 16.6

Now, I suspect this is some sort of HR fault, it seems worse when it's wet too.
So, instead of raising as an Infinity fault this time, I've logged as a voice fault in the hope they'll be thorough enough to find the issue. Engineer is coming tomorrow (AM) so noise probably won't be present.

So (and if you got this far well done) how would our resident experts approach this, have I done the right thing?

Also, how would the boost engineer have got an 84Mb sync??

Cheers
Samwise
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GigabitEthernet

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Re: Weird Infinity Issue - possible HR fault?
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2015, 10:21:48 AM »

I suspect it was an 84Mb attainable sync.
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Chrysalis

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Re: Weird Infinity Issue - possible HR fault?
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2015, 10:25:43 AM »

are you sure it wasnt 84 attainable? as even on open profiles 80mbit is the max sync which typically would be 79999.

your issue with the calls definitely smacks of a HR issue.  Swapping nte5 can fix these HR issues, but if that does no good an engineer will have to track it down.
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Black Sheep

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Re: Weird Infinity Issue - possible HR fault?
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2015, 10:36:53 AM »

My thoughts are that you have done exactly the right thing. Lets hope you now get a decent engineer ??

FWIW, regardless of whether the audible noise is or isn't present, I would demonstrate how the DSL drops synch when the landline is in use. This should be enough to get the dimmest of engineers interested. I would also humbly suggest that the 'HR' is likely to be on the D-side (From Cab to Pole). If it was on the E-side (Exchange to Cab), although the landline would still be noisy, it wouldn't cause a FTTC Broadband circuit to drop synch.

PS ..... welcome to the forum. :)
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samwise78

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Re: Weird Infinity Issue - possible HR fault?
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2015, 10:46:05 AM »

Thanks all for the replies and the welcome, good to get some validation on my thought process here.

We'll see how tomorrow's visit goes.  :fingers:

Re the 84Mb attainable sync the boost guy got on his JDSU, why is my attainable "only" 70Mb if his was 84Mb?

Cheers
Samwise




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Dray

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Re: Weird Infinity Issue - possible HR fault?
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2015, 10:58:55 AM »

Because your Homehub is controlled by BT via the BTAgent and they are "managing your expectations", perhaps?
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GigabitEthernet

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Re: Weird Infinity Issue - possible HR fault?
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2015, 11:04:26 AM »

Because your Homehub is controlled by BT via the BTAgent and they are "managing your expectations", perhaps?

I highly doubt that.

Perhaps the JDSU just performs better on your line than the HG612? Was the actual sync the same as previously or was that higher too?
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Dray

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Re: Weird Infinity Issue - possible HR fault?
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2015, 11:08:57 AM »

Because your Homehub is controlled by BT via the BTAgent and they are "managing your expectations", perhaps?

I highly doubt that.
Because you're on TalkTalk, who follow you around the web checking the websites you visit.
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Black Sheep

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Re: Weird Infinity Issue - possible HR fault?
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2015, 11:14:57 AM »

I wish I could give you an answer to that.

Vectoring has only just started to be rolled out to three large-scale areas, and if the engineers JDSU previously had the Infineon SIM (as mine did), he would have had the upgrade to the Broadcom SIM.
With the SIM came a few sheets explaining what vectoring and G.INP technologies were all about, and a couple of pictures showing where the 'Vectoring on/off' options is, but that was it. It's now a steep learning curve as to how to use this new SIM and what it is telling us ?? I believe our Engineers Office are giving more info in their next quarterly publication ?

With that in mind, I only recently visited an EU on FTTC complaining of slow-speeds (2meg). Although a fair distance from the Cab, it was star-wiring causing the issue and once removed my JDSU reported a synch of 12.8meg with the attainable being ever so slightly more.
 
I proceeded to connect the Hub5 and with my works laptop connected via an Ethernet lead, I was surprised to see the circuit was only getting throughput speeds of approx. 8meg !! This was my last job of the day and I literally didn't have the time to delve deeper (ie: what speed the Hub was actually synching at), but when closing the job I noticed that for the first time ever, that the circuit had vectoring enabled ( a one-word notification listed under the DSLAM details).
My point is, I was left wondering if indeed I was seeing the full vectored speeds against my JDSU, and the EU was just receiving normal VDSL speeds ??

Now that I know when a circuit is actually vector-enabled, I hope to be able to spend a little more time 'buggering about' with my JDSU and the EU's equipment for comparisons. Alas, time is one thing we don't have in abundance at OR <stats-driven madness>  :)
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samwise78

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Re: Weird Infinity Issue - possible HR fault?
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2015, 11:37:19 AM »


Perhaps the JDSU just performs better on your line than the HG612? Was the actual sync the same as previously or was that higher too?

I'm running a HomeHub 5 Type B only, no HG612
My sync was significantly better post lift and shift but the difference in attainable Hub vs JDSU is interesting.
I can't see G.INP being enabled making a 14Mb swing in attainable rate but then without a HG612 or another router I won't be able to see if G.INP has been enabled..
If it has been enabled what does this imply about the performance of the Hub given that it's deemed G.INP capable?

Cheers
Samwise
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Dray

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Re: Weird Infinity Issue - possible HR fault?
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2015, 11:39:30 AM »

My HH5B synced at maximum 80/20 when G.INP was enabled.

Are you connected to a Huawei cabinet?
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samwise78

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Re: Weird Infinity Issue - possible HR fault?
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2015, 12:00:07 PM »

My HH5B synced at maximum 80/20 when G.INP was enabled.

Are you connected to a Huawei cabinet?

Yep, cab is Huawei and pre Type B I synced at the maximum for a couple of weeks.
Service was activated in March. Only ever saw maximum since then after 1st engineer visit and DLM reset.
As far as I know I was the first on the cab, so I expected an effect from new activations.

To be clear I'm not expecting the max now, any benefit from G.INP would be nice though.

If I can get this HR issue sorted I'll be happy - but the difference in JDSU attainable and Hub attainable is still an oddity that I'd love to know more about.
As Black Sheep pointed out, he's already seen something similar in the field - although a sample of one isn't definitive.

I'll try and get the HR sorted and will look into another router or HG612 to get some decent stats once resolved.

Cheers
Samwise
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GigabitEthernet

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Re: Weird Infinity Issue - possible HR fault?
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2015, 12:02:33 PM »

Do you know your approximate line length?
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samwise78

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Re: Weird Infinity Issue - possible HR fault?
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2015, 12:08:05 PM »

Do you know your approximate line length?

Boost engineer said it was quite short but the lookup on the Kitz cab checker states 649m.
I think that a 68Mb sync is pretty good to be fair, the issue being the daily drops and the HR fault.

Trying not to get wrapped up in the chase for full speed but the JDSU attainable is intriguing

Cheers
Samwise
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Chrysalis

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Re: Weird Infinity Issue - possible HR fault?
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2015, 12:19:59 PM »

thanks for the info BS as usual.

Although the fatc you had to use a broadcom chipset may not bode well for ECI peeps again :p

Can you reveal if the customer with the vectoring enabled was in a BDUK area or not?
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