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Author Topic: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.  (Read 278898 times)

kitz

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Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #225 on: April 28, 2015, 10:17:02 PM »

We shall have to see what they come up with.   The only excuse that I can think is that we know this was tested before they made changes to the DLM late last year.   The current DLM system seems to be particularly harsh with the application of interleaving and this will be what causing most of the issues with latency and lack of speed.   Anyhow I await a further reply before I jump the gun and lets hope they can do something to sort it, otherwise there will be a lot of unhappy hectors :(
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Chrysalis

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Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #226 on: April 29, 2015, 01:05:27 AM »

I have asked similar questions myself because its not looking good for the ECI's atm.   
Ive been promised a response from their Chief Engineer @ Network Strategy but have told it will be at the earliest next week as he is out of the office atm.   As soon as I know whats going on I will update.

please update us with the reply you get.

For what its worth I contacted ofcom, gave them the technical details, and they told me its a detriment to the service and as such people could exit without penalty.

I asked for it in writing so should get this in a letter within a week or so.

This is very different to things like crosstalk, because if g.inp is enabled on ECI cabs with interleaving fallback on the upstream, then thats something entirely in openreach's control.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2015, 01:08:00 AM by Chrysalis »
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Chrysalis

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Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #227 on: April 29, 2015, 01:15:19 AM »

Quote from: kitz
Just imagine the crap that would have hit the fan if they'd continued.   I cannot believe for one minute that this has been tested properly

Haven't they been "testing" for 2 years though?  They need to use end users that have some technical know how - this should have been noticed in week one of testing!

Annoyed I am on an ECI cabinet, annoyed it took them half a decade to eventually enable the cab and even more annoyed that without Ginp/vectoring my FTTC speed will be no faster than ADSL2+ after starting at 80/20 with all the crosstalk issues.

I hope BTOR have some good news even if it is to send back the ECI cabs and get something that works!

This is what happens when you treat end users as dumb, give them no respect and do a silent trial.

They were probably just testing if it connected ok, and level of fault reports.

The proper way to trial is ask the tech savvy users to test and be open with what you doing.  Like whats happening now with plusnet and aaisp asking for ECI modem trialists.
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kitz

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Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #228 on: April 29, 2015, 01:26:46 AM »

Quote
For what its worth I contacted ofcom, gave them the technical details, and they told me its a detriment to the service and as such people could exit without penalty.

The problem is exit to where?   There's no other provider around here, so its Openreach or nothing.   I would imagine a good portion of the population are in the same position as no alternative :(

Quote
This is very different to things like crosstalk, because if g.inp is enabled on ECI cabs with interleaving fallback on the upstream, then thats something entirely in openreach's control.

Yes I agree and thats what some people dont seem to understand is that to some users it will be a degradation of their service.  Going off BobPullens stats its 10Mbps of speed and more than doubling of latency.   :'(

I had to stop reading over there, because I dont have time nor inclination to argue the toss with the Im alright jack & the I know more than you do brigade.   Someone mentioned to me tonight that theyve had to stop posting there because of attitude, and just a couple of days ago someone else remarked on the change of the forums.   

Anyhow Im glad that Openreach have pulled it for now and I hope that they can come up with a satisfactory solution.   atm the only way I can think is by messing with the DLM.   Im still not understanding properly how the upstream from the DSLAM will affect.   BT are currently seemingly under the impression that its only affecting the EU's upstream on the ECI modems, when weve seen that its affecting both, so the information so far is all rather confusing and why Im hoping to be able to get some answers.  Whether I will or not remains to be seen, but hopefully my questions have been passed to the person who should know.  :fingers:

Quote
They were probably just testing if it connected ok, and level of fault reports.

Most likely :(

Quote
The proper way to trial is ask the tech savvy users to test and be open with what you doing.

Agree 100%
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tommy45

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Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #229 on: April 29, 2015, 04:14:18 AM »

A better option would be to give isp's control over DLM and allow it to be disabled  if requested by the EU, My connection until G.inp ran fine when on Fastpath  even though at times there was bursts of errors for short periods of time, but i didn't consider it to be service affecting, where as i did feel DLM applying interleave was , only for it to return to fast path 2 weeks later  3-4 times in 23mths dlm intervened  needlessly IMO
« Last Edit: April 29, 2015, 04:19:14 AM by tommy45 »
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jelv

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Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #230 on: April 29, 2015, 08:53:41 AM »

I had to stop reading over there, because I dont have time nor inclination to argue the toss with the Im alright jack & the I know more than you do brigade.   Someone mentioned to me tonight that theyve had to stop posting there because of attitude, and just a couple of days ago someone else remarked on the change of the forums.

If a certain shill over there keeps posting rubbish I'll keep challenging him. There's already been a warning from a moderator on the topic about it verging on to personal attacks (challenging all who post rubbish is OK - but if all is only one person does that make it personal?).
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jelv

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Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #231 on: April 29, 2015, 08:57:21 AM »

A better option would be to give isp's control over DLM and allow it to be disabled  if requested by the EU, My connection until G.inp ran fine when on Fastpath  even though at times there was bursts of errors for short periods of time, but i didn't consider it to be service affecting, where as i did feel DLM applying interleave was , only for it to return to fast path 2 weeks later  3-4 times in 23mths dlm intervened  needlessly IMO

There is a difficulty with that: an EU insists they want DLM disabled even though it would be beneficial because their line is prone to errors. They then raise a fault needing an engineer's visit. What happens next?
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Chrysalis

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Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #232 on: April 29, 2015, 10:19:34 AM »

kitz well for me it would be back to cable.

Obviously some people dont have the option of cable, but still if openreach try to push this and ofcom side with consumers it may then make isps put pressure on openreach.

Time will tell what happens tho, this may not be needed as it does look like currently openreach are trying to avoid the performance penalty.
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Chrysalis

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Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #233 on: April 29, 2015, 10:21:22 AM »

I had to stop reading over there, because I dont have time nor inclination to argue the toss with the Im alright jack & the I know more than you do brigade.   Someone mentioned to me tonight that theyve had to stop posting there because of attitude, and just a couple of days ago someone else remarked on the change of the forums.

If a certain shill over there keeps posting rubbish I'll keep challenging him. There's already been a warning from a moderator on the topic about it verging on to personal attacks (challenging all who post rubbish is OK - but if all is only one person does that make it personal?).

I am guessing if that thread gets closed, andy will have achieved his aim.
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jelv

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Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #234 on: April 29, 2015, 10:36:03 AM »

Yes and no - Plusnet would get a barrage of criticism about censoring complaints about speeds - not everyone realises the moderators are also users.
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tommy45

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Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #235 on: April 29, 2015, 12:09:54 PM »

A better option would be to give isp's control over DLM and allow it to be disabled  if requested by the EU, My connection until G.inp ran fine when on Fastpath  even though at times there was bursts of errors for short periods of time, but i didn't consider it to be service affecting, where as i did feel DLM applying interleave was , only for it to return to fast path 2 weeks later  3-4 times in 23mths dlm intervened  needlessly IMO

There is a difficulty with that: an EU insists they want DLM disabled even though it would be beneficial because their line is prone to errors. They then raise a fault needing an engineer's visit. What happens next?


The isp could basically verbally convey a verbal disclaimer to the EU , in that doing this may at some point cause a negative impact to your connection blah blah, blah, as for the EU reporting a fault then, before BT openreach involvement  the isp would run tests, including with DLM on or a manual config with interleaving /g.inp applied , if a line was needing very high levels of interleaving INP ect and was still showing issues then raise a fault  with bt . like llu suppliers used to. I can see no difficulty with that solution, apart from isp's having to employ trained people to provide tech support, DLM was designed to save isp's doing this, but it is far from perfect,
« Last Edit: April 29, 2015, 12:12:26 PM by tommy45 »
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tommy45

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Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #236 on: April 29, 2015, 12:15:24 PM »

I had to stop reading over there, because I dont have time nor inclination to argue the toss with the Im alright jack & the I know more than you do brigade.   Someone mentioned to me tonight that theyve had to stop posting there because of attitude, and just a couple of days ago someone else remarked on the change of the forums.

If a certain shill over there keeps posting rubbish I'll keep challenging him. There's already been a warning from a moderator on the topic about it verging on to personal attacks (challenging all who post rubbish is OK - but if all is only one person does that make it personal?).

I am guessing if that thread gets closed, andy will have achieved his aim.
Took the words right out of my mouth.I very nearly wrote something on those lines yesterday, as that's the opinion that have formed too, we all could ignore him not respond to his remarks starve the troll/shill
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kitz

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Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #237 on: April 29, 2015, 05:13:01 PM »

What is annoying is the "Im alright" and "what you are seeing is perfectly acceptable" or "Openreach say its supposed to work like that" or "there's not that many complaining".  What we are seeing on the forums will just be the tip of the iceberg, and there will be many who have the issue, who either don't notice and just think their broadband is having an off day, cant check because the modem is locked down, don't post on forums etc.

Perhaps some don't see the bigger picture of engineers being called out because EU's losing a large chunk of speed. I saw a post the other day where it was obvious that it was a g.inp issue and the OR engineer was struggling to reset the DLM.  How much wasted ISP & OR man hours.  Not only that many will be fobbed off by CS because 'speeds fall within the projected speed range'.  10Mbps is a lot to lose and latency of up to 50ms is not acceptable in my books if a line doesn't need it.

I honestly don't believe that Openreach can have tested this properly because surely they should notice such huge decreases on some lines.. or perhaps they only tested with matched equipment.  They certainly cant have expected things like the GEA test to come back null or OR engineer's diagnostic tools to not work.

Anyhow:   A picture paints a thousand words.

« Last Edit: April 30, 2015, 06:06:16 PM by kitz »
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Dray

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Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #238 on: April 29, 2015, 07:23:33 PM »

Shame the Huawei modem used a different server - Bristol not London. Apart from that, good graphic :)
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Chrysalis

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Re: G.INP - BT rollout 2015.
« Reply #239 on: April 29, 2015, 11:30:34 PM »

kitz am I ok to post that pic elsewhere?
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