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Author Topic: G.INP enabled Stats Comparison  (Read 100601 times)

Balb0wa

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Re: G.INP enabled Stats Comparison
« Reply #240 on: April 04, 2015, 11:17:44 AM »

Im loving ginp on my poor line and zyxel, 14-15ms ping to bbc now.

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Bowdon

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Re: G.INP enabled Stats Comparison
« Reply #241 on: April 04, 2015, 11:20:25 AM »

Anyone know why my line has interleave enabled?

From my limited understanding interleaving as to be on for g.inp to work.
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BT Full Fibre 500 - Smart Hub 2

adslmax

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Re: G.INP enabled Stats Comparison
« Reply #242 on: April 04, 2015, 12:10:20 PM »



Anyone know why my line has interleave enabled?

before the rubbish G.INP was forced on my line I had 3 years worth of full sync fast path trouble free line.

The line is only about 80 meters long of underground .5 copper.

But your line still in excellent full sync anyway even with interleave on! Not much different between interleave and fast path.
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lockeh

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Re: G.INP enabled Stats Comparison
« Reply #243 on: April 04, 2015, 01:01:08 PM »

I know but I want my fast path ping back :(

This is as bad as it can get with noise on the line as my cab is now full.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2015, 01:03:47 PM by lockeh »
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Black Sheep

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Re: G.INP enabled Stats Comparison
« Reply #244 on: April 04, 2015, 01:07:38 PM »

A prime example of the adage, 'Your never going to satisfy everyone'.
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lockeh

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Re: G.INP enabled Stats Comparison
« Reply #245 on: April 04, 2015, 01:21:25 PM »

I don't don't understand why my interleave depth is so high 16 down and 8 up.
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WWWombat

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Re: G.INP enabled Stats Comparison
« Reply #246 on: April 04, 2015, 01:41:51 PM »

Anyone know why my line has interleave enabled?

It looks like it is becoming the default setting for every line.

I had a 100m line, running at around 50 ES per day, but I was converted.

From my limited understanding interleaving as to be on for g.inp to work.

I don't think it *has* to be turned on. However, the new configuration still has two jobs to perform: fixing REIN and SHINE.

The retransmission part of G.INP is best suited to SHINE, but REIN is best handled by FEC and interleaving still. The difference is that the settings for FEC and interleaving, used alongside G.INP retransmission, give a much reduced impact.

I know but I want my fast path ping back :(
I don't don't understand why my interleave depth is so high 16 down and 8 up.
Do you know how much latency you are complaining about? Have you calculated it?

Interleaving works by putting data into a two-dimensional array, row by row; then emptying data out of it column by column. The overall delay incurred is proportional to the (depth multiplied by width); it always beats me why people are worried by interleaving depth, when width matters too.

When DLM intervened with a standard setting of INP=3 and delay=8, the (depth x width) calculation would result in, for example, (1421 x 64) = 91,000. A data volume of 91,000 therefore maps to 8ms.

With G.INP active, a typical equivalent calculation is (16*139) = 2,200. That is 40 times smaller than the old setting, so probably amounts to 0.2ms.

Are you really worried about 0.2ms?

Do you know what this 0.2ms penalty buys you elsewhere? It turns as many noise errors into FECs as it can, rather than them becoming retransmissions. Something re-transmitted takes much longer and becomes seen as jitter in the path, which isn't an ideal result either.

Quote
This is as bad as it can get with noise on the line as my cab is now full.

Until a subscriber changes to one who lies closer to you within the cable bundle. Or, much worse, a second cab gets added.
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WWWombat

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Re: G.INP enabled Stats Comparison
« Reply #247 on: April 04, 2015, 01:59:39 PM »

I don't know if it really does show crosstalk, or just noise of any source.

crosstalk will manifest itself as noise into the effected end-users line but the difference is it's another broadband signal thats interfering with the EU's line rather than the normal culprits like RFI and REIN this is were vectoring comes in it's able to mask out the crosstalk/noise from the disturbing broadband signal.

I understand what the different kinds of noise are. When I said "I don't know if it really does show crosstalk", I'm expressing my doubt as to whether the LEFTRS counter manages to distinguish crosstalk from any other kind of noise. So I doubt that a human can look at the results of the counter, and conclude something about crosstalk, versus other kinds of noise.

If FEC and interleaving are configured as well as G.INP retransmission, then I believe that most REIN will be handled within the FEC process; this means retransmission is left to deal with SHINE - and LEFTRS therefore gives an idea of how big the SHINE impulses are (and/or how often they are seen), and does successfully distinguish that from REIN.

However, I'm not really sure whether "excess" noise from crosstalk is perceived more as REIN or SHINE. Note: by "excess" noise, I mean the noise from crosstalk that isn't already part of the "noise floor" (ie, it hasn't already been detected within the SNR calculation), such that a lower bit-loading has already been chosen during the sync.

Even if the excess crosstalk left over after the SNR reduction does result in SHINE, I don't think LEFTRS can distinguish, say, from the spike when heating or fluorescents are turned on. I'd need to read more theory on it...

If FEC and interleaving are not turned on, then retransmission is being left to deal with REIN too - in which case, I seriously doubt that LEFTRS can distinguish anything at all. However, I don't think we've seen a configuration like this.
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lockeh

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Re: G.INP enabled Stats Comparison
« Reply #248 on: April 04, 2015, 02:28:03 PM »

My ping was 8-9ms for years before this G.INP, now it's closer to 20, some may think I'm moaning about nothing but all I do is game on my line and I'm miffed about it to be honest.
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WWWombat

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Re: G.INP enabled Stats Comparison
« Reply #249 on: April 04, 2015, 03:02:21 PM »

I have ever so slightly less attenuation that you (8.4dB), but otherwise very similar. The interleaving depth is the same, and the INP settings are the same.

A TBB BQM from before G.INP:


And afterwards:


Attached are the latency results from my SamKnows whitebox. I've seen bigger differences happen by just hopping between gateways from BTW into Plusnet.

Activation of G.INP made very little difference here. Are you sure you can put your change down to G.INP? As in - are you sure you can put your change down to G.INP working correctly with your modem? Looking at your previous posts suggests you are at risk of running on old firmware. What modem and firmware version are you using?

Actually, looking at your previous posts, your latency change isn't consistent. Here you are saying it has increased by 11-12ms, but in previous posts you are saying 3ms. Which is it?
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NewtronStar

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Re: G.INP enabled Stats Comparison
« Reply #250 on: April 04, 2015, 03:25:02 PM »

I just want to say thanks to WWWombat for helping me understand more about the ins and outs of G.INP, could read your informative and easy to understand posts all day  :thumbs:
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lockeh

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Re: G.INP enabled Stats Comparison
« Reply #251 on: April 04, 2015, 06:27:52 PM »

It varied, when I first had G.inp enabled it increased by 3ms then it increase by about 12ms and reduced sync with ECI modem, I installed the HG612 and in deceased slightly. Had a BT engineer out had the port reset abut wouldn't stick and interleave wouldn't budge and needed someone at BT OR HQ to fix the interleave on up and down. I had 9ms ping to BBC again for a few days and then G.INP reapplied with and same again.

I wonder if having ECI connected when G.INP got applied caused a higher state of interleave?
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adslmax

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Re: G.INP enabled Stats Comparison
« Reply #252 on: April 04, 2015, 06:51:13 PM »

How come on the real time on this site: http://www.mydslwebstats.co.uk/HG612-MultUsersLivei.htm?UO=3

that you noticed boost UP has the biggest SNR, Attainable Rate but still not yet G.INP enabled on his Huawei cabinet? And few others on Huawei cabinets are not yet G.INP enabled yet as I thought Openreach has completed the roll out for all Huawei cabinets?

« Last Edit: April 04, 2015, 06:53:42 PM by adslmax »
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NewtronStar

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Re: G.INP enabled Stats Comparison
« Reply #253 on: April 04, 2015, 07:13:05 PM »

I think it's sometimes better to use a graph to show how G.INP is better for all even the die hard fastpath users  ;)

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NewtronStar

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Re: G.INP enabled Stats Comparison
« Reply #254 on: April 04, 2015, 08:57:30 PM »

that you noticed boost UP has the biggest SNR, Attainable Rate but still not yet G.INP enabled on his Huawei cabinet?

This could be that they are still using the HG612V100R001C01B028SP10_no-btagent firmware on there HG612 or there current 3rd party modem is unable to use G.INP i am not sure.
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