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Author Topic: Goodbye Plusnet FTTC, Hello G.Fast from Unchained via TT Backhaul  (Read 11069 times)

Alex Atkin UK

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Re: Goodbye Plusnet FTTC, Hello G.Fast from Unchained via TT Backhaul
« Reply #180 on: May 31, 2021, 03:11:07 AM »

You got wrong way round it that 4dB SNRm was on downstream (now at 9.1dB) and 3.1dB SNRm was on upstream (now on 3.1dB - unchanged)

You're right, got confused as you posted from a different stats screen.
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adslmax

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Re: Goodbye Plusnet FTTC, Hello G.Fast from Unchained via TT Backhaul
« Reply #181 on: May 31, 2021, 03:15:50 AM »

No worry at all. The main things happy with max 160/30 that's all matter!  ;)
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kitz

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Re: Goodbye Plusnet FTTC, Hello G.Fast from Unchained via TT Backhaul
« Reply #182 on: May 31, 2021, 12:49:49 PM »

Anything upstream can quite often dependant upon local wiring conditions*  However Im surprised that 1.5m nearer to the socket made that much difference, unless the cable was better quality.

*Master Socket, internal wiring or even telephony near to demarcation point

--------

However, when comparing the 2 stats, I notice that the upstream receive power has increased from 1dB to 4.7dB.   That is more likely to have something to do with the increased upstream rate.   Not sure about the downstream.   


So in part probably DSM (Dynamic Spectral Management) adjusting the power levels on your line.   
There is absolutely _nothing_ you can do about DSM as its calculated by the DSLAM at the time of sync and tries to keep power levels within certain parameters depending upon local conditions and also such things as E-side distance and D-side distance.  It involves some fairly complicated algorithms and various allowed parameters of spectral masks..   It's not unusual that if it decides to give you more upstream power then downstream goes down as a result - or vice versa, where people get a higher downstream sync, but their upstream sync goes down.

Please do not get hung up with DSM as spectral management is outside the scope of you being able to do anything much about and it may even change back to the previous power level.   It's more complicated than DLM and at times mystifying why a spectral mask may change. Absolutely none of us here know which spectral masks as used on our own lines other than we can see what difference it makes to the shape of our upstream bit-loading in some of the lower tones.   This kinda stuff is going to be way over the head of most people, so just count yourself lucky that something has decided to push up your upstream power a tad. 


Now leave the goddamn stats alone  :D
----------------------




OLD STATS


============================================================================
    xDSL Training Status:   Showtime
                    Mode:   G.fast Annex A
            Traffic Type:   PTM Mode
             Link Uptime:   0 day: 0 hour: 36 minutes
============================================================================
       xDSL Port Details       Upstream         Downstream
               Line Rate:     28.175 Mbps      160.251 Mbps
    Actual Net Data Rate:     28.037 Mbps      159.891 Mbps
          Trellis Coding:         ON                ON
              SNR Margin:        3.2 dB            4.4 dB
            Actual Delay:          0 ms              0 ms
          Transmit Power:        4.0 dBm           0.0 dBm
           Receive Power:        1.0 dBm           3.0 dBm
              Actual INP:      540.0 symbols     550.0 symbols
Attainable Net Data Rate:     28.028 Mbps      186.263 Mbps
============================================================================


NEW STATS


===========================================================================
    xDSL Training Status:   Showtime
                    Mode:   G.fast Annex A
            Traffic Type:   PTM Mode
             Link Uptime:   0 day: 0 hour: 23 minutes
============================================================================
       xDSL Port Details       Upstream         Downstream
               Line Rate:     30.153 Mbps      160.205 Mbps
    Actual Net Data Rate:     30.005 Mbps      160.005 Mbps
          Trellis Coding:         ON                ON
              SNR Margin:        3.1 dB            9.1 dB
            Actual Delay:          0 ms              0 ms
          Transmit Power:        4.0 dBm           0.0 dBm
           Receive Power:        4.7 dBm           3.0 dBm
              Actual INP:      540.0 symbols     550.0 symbols
Attainable Net Data Rate:     31.668 Mbps      225.960 Mbps
============================================================================


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adslmax

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Re: Goodbye Plusnet FTTC, Hello G.Fast from Unchained via TT Backhaul
« Reply #183 on: May 31, 2021, 12:55:57 PM »

Strange the router didn't resync but noticed a bit change by DLM in a quieter manner way:

New Stats:

============================================================================
    xDSL Training Status:   Showtime
                    Mode:   G.fast Annex A
            Traffic Type:   PTM Mode
             Link Uptime:   0 day: 12 hours: 26 minutes
============================================================================
       xDSL Port Details       Upstream         Downstream
               Line Rate:     29.552 Mbps      160.196 Mbps
    Actual Net Data Rate:     29.352 Mbps      159.815 Mbps
          Trellis Coding:         ON                ON
              SNR Margin:        2.8 dB            9.1 dB
            Actual Delay:          0 ms              0 ms
          Transmit Power:        4.0 dBm           0.0 dBm
           Receive Power:        4.7 dBm           3.0 dBm
              Actual INP:      538.0 symbols     549.0 symbols
Attainable Net Data Rate:     29.793 Mbps      221.751 Mbps
============================================================================


Stats recorded 31 May 2021 12:54:15

DSLAM type / SW version:   BDCM:0xc190 (193.144) / v0xc190
Modem/router firmware:     AnnexA version - A2pvfbH045o.d27j
DSL mode:                  G
Status:                    Showtime
Uptime:                     12 hours 20 min 34 sec
Resyncs:                   0 (since 31 May 2021 12:34:13)
         
            Downstream   Upstream
Line attenuation (dB):     38.6      0.0
Signal attenuation (dB):   38.6      0.0
Connection speed (kbps):   159815      29412
SNR margin (dB):           9.1      3.0
Power (dBm):               0.0      4.0
Interleave depth:                
INP:                       549.00      538.00
G.INP:                     Not enabled      Not enabled
Vectoring status:          Unknown      

RSCorr/RS (%):             0.0002      0.0353
RSUnCorr/RS (%):           0.0000      0.0000
ES/hour:                   0      0

xdslctl info --pbParams
xdslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    1
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 30013 Kbps, Downstream rate = 222625 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 29412 Kbps, Downstream rate = 159815 Kbps

Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (348,1256) Gfactor=4
DS: (342,1204) Gfactor=4
Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan
US: (348,1256) Gfactor=4
DS: (342,1132) Gfactor=4

VDSL Port Details               Upstream                Downstream
Attainable Net Data Rate:        30013 kbps             222625 kbps
Actual Aggregate Tx Power:          4.0 dBm                 0.0 dBm
====================================================================================
  VDSL Band Status   U0   U1   U2   U3   U4   D1   D2   D3
  Line Attenuation(dB):   N/A   0.0   N/A   N/A   N/A   38.6   N/A   N/A
Signal Attenuation(dB):   N/A   0.0   N/A   N/A   N/A   38.6   N/A   N/A
        SNR Margin(dB):   N/A   0.0   N/A   N/A   N/A   0.0   N/A   N/A
         TX Power(dBm):   N/A   0.0   N/A   N/A   N/A   0.0   N/A   N/A
        kl0(dBx100):      N/A     N/A     N/A     N/A     N/A     N/A     N/A     N/A   
ZySH>

xdslctl info --stats
xdslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    1
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 29899 Kbps, Downstream rate = 222625 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 29412 Kbps, Downstream rate = 159815 Kbps

Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   G.fast Annex A
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        9.1             2.9
Attn(dB):        38.6            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        0.0             4.0

                        G.fast framing
                        Bearer 0
R:              12              8
N:              93              204
Q:              15              4

L:              4848            4208
Lrmc:           0               0
Ldoi:           0               4312
Rrmc:           93              194
Drmc:           14              3

Mf:             36              36
M(ds/us):       29              6

MNDSNOI:        2               2
ackWindowShift: 0               0
Ldr:            0               0
etru:           0               0
ETRminEoc:      0               0

                        Counters
                        Bearer 0
OHF:            7410665         86334
OHFErr:         0               0
RS:             2508451453              458547073
RSCorr:         4508            161942
RSUnCorr:       0               0

                        Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx:         745             2406
rtx_c:          720             0
rtx_uc:         0               0

                        G.fast Counters
minEFTR:        160770          30409
errFreeBits:    109093315               20967334

NOI
BSW:            98/98           32122/32122
SRA:            0/0             120/120
FRA:            0/0             0/0
RPA:            0/0             0/0
TIGA:           111/111         0/0
DOI
BSW:            0/0             0/0
SRA:            0/0             0/0
FRA:            0/0             0/0
RPA:            0/0             0/0
TIGA:           0/0             0/0

eocBytes:       29070953                110186279
eocPkts:        1119705         295750
eocMsgs:        1119705         295750

ANDEFTRmin:     160813          30411
ANDEFTRmax:     160813          30412
ANDEFTRsum:     2733707480              20970368
ANDEFTRDS:      514423          44464
LANDEFTRRS:     0               0

                        Bearer 0
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    9918647         5268995
Data Cells:     8798971         4973254
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

LORS:           0               0
LOSS:           0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            190             190
AS:             44464

                        Bearer 0
INP:            549.00          538.00
INPRein:        0.00            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            0.00            1377.21
OR:             381.00          200.38
AgR:            16824.08        16108.99

Total time = 12 hours 24 min 14 sec
FEC:            4508            161942
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            190             190
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Retr:           0
FastRetr:       1
FailedRetr:     1
FailedFastRetr: 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 9 min 14 sec
FEC:            33              234
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Retr:           0
FastRetr:       0
FailedRetr:     0
FailedFastRetr: 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:            115             450
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Retr:           N/A
HostInitRetr:   N/A
FastRetr:       N/A
FailedRetr:     N/A
FailedFastRetr: N/A
Latest 1 day time = 12 hours 24 min 14 sec
FEC:            4508            161942
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            190             190
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Retr:           0
FastRetr:       1
FailedRetr:     1
FailedFastRetr: 0
Previous 1 day time = 0 sec
FEC:            0               0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Retr:           0
FastRetr:       0
FailedRetr:     0
FailedFastRetr: 0
Since Link time = 12 hours 21 min 3 sec
FEC:            4508            161942
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Retr:           0
FastRetr:       0
FailedRetr:     0
FailedFastRetr: 0
NTR: mipsCntAtNtr=0 ncoCntAtNtr=0
ZySH>

BTw checker has updated as well as the estimated was about spot on right

« Last Edit: May 31, 2021, 01:01:29 PM by adslmax »
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adslmax

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Re: Goodbye Plusnet FTTC, Hello G.Fast from Unchained via TT Backhaul
« Reply #184 on: May 31, 2021, 01:09:52 PM »

Kitz

I did asked the openreach engineer to double check at the junction box in the bin cupboard where the copper phone line coming into the property to the master socket as the engineer did checked and say it old BT52A and it still used for any VDSL2 and GFAST as he leave it alone and also saying there is spare 3m telephone cable behind but he will not cut it shortern say it will not make any different to GFAST at 160/30. But surely cut half from 3m to 1.5m will make GFAST lots higher max speed closer to 330/50. But, I can't touch it as I will be in big serious trouble by Openreach if they found out I did cut it half myself.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2021, 01:14:29 PM by adslmax »
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kitz

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Re: Goodbye Plusnet FTTC, Hello G.Fast from Unchained via TT Backhaul
« Reply #185 on: May 31, 2021, 03:26:19 PM »

>> But surely cut half from 3m to 1.5m will make GFAST lots higher max speed closer to 330/50. <<

Not necessarily.  As above 1.5m shouldnt make that much difference.   If the engineer says it wouldn't make any difference then forget about it.   Why are you worrying anyhow about the higher speed product.   If it were 10m then things may be different.   

>> BTw checker has updated as well as the estimated was about spot on right <<

Why are you still checking this even though you have the service?   

As I've said before, now that you do have service...  then the estimate is based around what it is seeing to the connected line.    BEFORE a line is connected it is an estimate of what the sytem thinks you may get depending on things such as line length and what other connections in the area may be getting.   AFTER you are connected then it should more or less mirror what the line is connecting at and the lowest sync rate.
Honestly Max there is absolutely no point keep looking at this each day.   :no:

>> Strange the router didn't resync but noticed a bit change by DLM in a quieter manner way <<

So you are watching stats?  :( 
All I will answer here is repeat what you should already know and what I've previously mentioned numerous times in the past and at least once in this thread is that g.fast uses SRA (Seamless Rate Adaption).   This means the speed at which the line connects at can change depending on the amount of noise (ie the SNRm).   So if the SNRM goes below a certain point, the line rate is adjusted without having to perform a full resync.
 


Max, I'm beginning to get concerned that despite what you say, you are watching the stats.   I'm absolutely certain that I've said in the past, one of my concerns about you getting g.fast is the fact the connection rate changes on the fly without having to resync and you could end up driving yourself insane worrying about tiny changes that really do not matter.   I consoled myself that at least with your getting the 160 version, SRA wasn't going to affect you like it would if you went for 330.    But now you seem to be concentrating on the upstream variances..... all of which are perfectly normal.   

I don't mind trying to help you if your have an actual problem... nor trying to explain to you how things work.   I do however get very frustrated when we start going over the same things.   
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adslmax

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Re: Goodbye Plusnet FTTC, Hello G.Fast from Unchained via TT Backhaul
« Reply #186 on: May 31, 2021, 03:38:11 PM »

Kitz

Thanks for explaining everything. I am learning how gfast are work with SRA very different from FTTC. Anyway this is my last stats now.

As I knew my line can do 224/30 but lucky as you are 100% right that's I would stay on 160/30 for next 12 months.

I been enjoyed the garden today just cut the front garden grass but I more likely go to Wales with my daughter for few days as I love North Wales. Heard the weather are good all this week.


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stevebrass

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Re: Goodbye Plusnet FTTC, Hello G.Fast from Unchained via TT Backhaul
« Reply #187 on: May 31, 2021, 06:55:08 PM »

Kitz

Thanks for explaining everything. I am learning how gfast are work with SRA very different from FTTC. Anyway this is my last stats now.

As I knew my line can do 224/30 but lucky as you are 100% right that's I would stay on 160/30 for next 12 months.

I been enjoyed the garden today just cut the front garden grass but I more likely go to Wales with my daughter for few days as I love North Wales. Heard the weather are good all this week.

North Wales? Lovely place - Snowdonia is beautiful.
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adslmax

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Re: Goodbye Plusnet FTTC, Hello G.Fast from Unchained via TT Backhaul
« Reply #188 on: May 31, 2021, 08:43:35 PM »

North Wales? Lovely place - Snowdonia is beautiful.

I agree as last time went to Newborough Forest in Wales. Love it there. https://www.dioni.co.uk/explore-anglesey-series-newborough/ (went there)
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adslmax

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Re: Goodbye Plusnet FTTC, Hello G.Fast from Unchained via TT Backhaul
« Reply #189 on: June 03, 2021, 05:33:37 PM »

Updated: G.fast proved to be stable more. Been steady and stable for 9 days. Today did check one off stats really impressed with G.fast lucky as I think I am within 280-300m from the cabinet. More stable and good job G.fast got vectoring as I will remain 160/30 for next 12 months.  :)

xdslctl info --stats
xdslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    1
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 31228 Kbps, Downstream rate = 239271 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 29911 Kbps, Downstream rate = 159965 Kbps

Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   G.fast Annex A
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        12.1             3.0
Attn(dB):        38.6            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        0.0             4.0

Stats recorded 03 Jun 2021 17:44:53

DSLAM type / SW version:   BDCM:0xc190 (193.144) / v0xc190
Modem/router firmware:     AnnexA version - A2pvfbH045o.d27j
DSL mode:                  G
Status:                    Showtime
Uptime:                    3 days 17 hours 11 min 4 sec
Resyncs:                   0 (since 03 Jun 2021 07:20:21)
         
            Downstream   Upstream
Line attenuation (dB):     38.6      0.0
Signal attenuation (dB):   38.6      0.0
Connection speed (kbps):   159965      29911
SNR margin (dB):           12.1      3.0
Power (dBm):               0.0      4.0
Interleave depth:                
INP:                       549.00      540.00
G.INP:                     Not enabled      Not enabled
Vectoring status:          Unknown      

RSCorr/RS (%):             0.0022      0.0027
RSUnCorr/RS (%):           0.0000      0.0000
ES/hour:                   0      0
« Last Edit: June 03, 2021, 05:46:46 PM by adslmax »
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g3uiss

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Re: Goodbye Plusnet FTTC, Hello G.Fast from Unchained via TT Backhaul
« Reply #190 on: June 03, 2021, 09:18:59 PM »

What is the purpose of the constant checking and publishing these stats. I seems it works fine so why constantly check ?
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meritez

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Re: Goodbye Plusnet FTTC, Hello G.Fast from Unchained via TT Backhaul
« Reply #191 on: June 04, 2021, 09:25:37 AM »

What is the purpose of the constant checking and publishing these stats. I seems it works fine so why constantly check ?

Because Openreach DLM keeps adjusting it.
If @adslmax could encapsulate them using the # code function that would make them easier to read, like so:

Code: [Select]
xdslctl info --stats
xdslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    1
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 31228 Kbps, Downstream rate = 239271 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 29911 Kbps, Downstream rate = 159965 Kbps

Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   G.fast Annex A
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        12.1             3.0
Attn(dB):        38.6            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        0.0             4.0

Stats recorded 03 Jun 2021 17:44:53

DSLAM type / SW version:   BDCM:0xc190 (193.144) / v0xc190
Modem/router firmware:     AnnexA version - A2pvfbH045o.d27j
DSL mode:                  G
Status:                    Showtime
Uptime:                    3 days 17 hours 11 min 4 sec
Resyncs:                   0 (since 03 Jun 2021 07:20:21)
         
            Downstream   Upstream
Line attenuation (dB):     38.6      0.0
Signal attenuation (dB):   38.6      0.0
Connection speed (kbps):   159965      29911
SNR margin (dB):           12.1      3.0
Power (dBm):               0.0      4.0
Interleave depth:               
INP:                       549.00      540.00
G.INP:                     Not enabled      Not enabled
Vectoring status:          Unknown     

RSCorr/RS (%):             0.0022      0.0027
RSUnCorr/RS (%):           0.0000      0.0000
ES/hour:                   0      0
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bkehoe

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Re: Goodbye Plusnet FTTC, Hello G.Fast from Unchained via TT Backhaul
« Reply #192 on: June 04, 2021, 09:56:25 AM »

Because Openreach DLM keeps adjusting it.


It's not DLM, it's SRA doing its job, working perfectly normally and will continue to do so for however long he has this connection. Checking and posting stats as the parameters get adjusted slightly from day to day/from hour to hour due to environmental variables is totally unnecessary as this is the connection functioning as designed.
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adslmax

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Re: Goodbye Plusnet FTTC, Hello G.Fast from Unchained via TT Backhaul
« Reply #193 on: June 04, 2021, 12:42:16 PM »

SRA made changed can see line max rate has dropped 239/31 to 198/29

Code: [Select]
xdslctl info --stats
xdslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    1
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 29239 Kbps, Downstream rate = 198687 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 28287 Kbps, Downstream rate = 159405 Kbps

Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   G.fast Annex A
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        7.8             2.9
Attn(dB):        38.6            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        0.0             4.0

Stats recorded 04 Jun 2021 12:38:52

DSLAM type / SW version: BDCM:0xc190 (193.144) / v0xc190
Modem/router firmware:  AnnexA version - A2pvfbH045o.d27j
DSL mode:                G
Status:                  Showtime
Uptime:                  4 days 12 hours 5 min 1 sec
Resyncs:                0 (since 04 Jun 2021 12:30:30)

Downstream Upstream
Line attenuation (dB):  38.6 0.0
Signal attenuation (dB): 38.6 0.0
Connection speed (kbps): 159405 28287
SNR margin (dB):        7.8 2.9
Power (dBm):            0.0 4.0
Interleave depth:       
INP:                    550.00 540.00
G.INP:                  Not enabled Not enabled
Vectoring status:        Unknown

RSCorr/RS (%):          0.0028 1.1507
RSUnCorr/RS (%):        0.0000 0.0000
ES/hour:                0 0

« Last Edit: June 04, 2021, 12:45:24 PM by adslmax »
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roseway

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Re: Goodbye Plusnet FTTC, Hello G.Fast from Unchained via TT Backhaul
« Reply #194 on: June 04, 2021, 12:58:26 PM »

Max, please, for the sake of your own health, do stop obsessing about the stats. You must understand by now that SRA will make small changes frequently throughout its life. There's no point in reporting every little change, because the information has no value to you or anybody else.
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