Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => FTTC and FTTP Issues => Topic started by: adslmax on May 19, 2021, 02:13:26 AM
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[Moderator note: These posts have been split off from an earlier thread, as they are worthy to be a topic in their own right.]
Goodbye Plusnet next week. Leaving Plusnet. Disagree with renewal contract with PN. My daughter agree with me she will pay half with me for G.fast service. ;D
My FTTC 80/20 with line only (phone number) will be transfer over to new ISP will be on G.Fast 160/30 with line only. (will be on TalkTalk Business G.fast)
Watch this space! Will photo of Openreach G.fast Modem, my G.fast Router. Openreach engineer is booked for Wednesday 26th May.
I can see the BTw checker:
There are multiple orders open on your line which are due to complete by 26-May-2021.
There is currently a Broadband cease pending or in progress against this line. This cease is due to complete by 26th May 2021. This will not stop you ordering Broadband from a new supplier, but it will delay the provision of the new Broadband service.
Telephone Number 01952****** on Exchange CUCKOO OAK is served by Cabinet 8
Featured Products
Downstream Line Rate(Mbps)
Upstream Line Rate(Mbps)
Downstream Handback Threshold(Mbps)
WBC FTTC Availability Date
WBC SOGEA Availability Date
Left in Jumper
VDSL Range A (Clean) 80 74 20 19 67 Available Available
VDSL Range B (Impacted) 80 73.4 20 19 67 Available Available
G.fast Range A (Clean) 282.9 203.6 44.1 21.3 179.8 Amber Amber
G.fast Range B (Impacted) 237.6 173.8 31.1 15.4 157.8 Amber Amber
Observed Speeds
VDSL
Max Observed Downstream Speed (Mbps) 80
Max Upstream Observed Speed (Mbps) 20
Observed Date -- 2021-05-18
Service Notification
6:00pm, Tuesday 11 May 2021
The customer was mailed the following message to address(es) (*************@*********.com, postmaster@***************.plus.com):
Subject: Leaving Plusnet - what you need to know
Leaving Plusnet
What you need to know
--------
Hello ****************,
Account username: ******************
Phone number affected: 01952******
We're sorry to hear you're leaving us.
Another service provider has told us that you want to move your broadband and phone away from Plusnet.
Your broadband and phone services are scheduled to transfer automatically on 26th May 2021 and will result in the cancellation of your Plusnet account. This means that on this date, your services will be taken over by your new provider and you won't need to contact us to cancel your service with us.
When you leave Plusnet
======================
You'll receive a cancellation bill with the charges you need to pay.
Because you're moving your broadband and phone before the end of your minimum term, you will be subject to early termination charges. These have been calculated at £0.00.
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Do you still have the Zyxel XMG3927-B50A?
I thought you just renewed with Plusnet (https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,25877.msg434936.html#msg434936)?
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Yes still got Zyxel XMG3927-B50A
I thought you just renewed with Plusnet? - Nope I cancelled it within 14 days (disagree with offer deal) as I am out of contract anyway!
Still very nervous of next week switch over to G.fast from FTTC. Different network changed as well from Plusnet Openreach network to TalkTalk Business Network.
I can't remember if new service of G.fast on the day of first installing by engineer mean DLM will be inactive for the first 48 hours is that correct?
The isp told me I better off start off with G.fast 160/30 see how it go and the isp will tell me if my line is good enough for upgraded to G.fast 330/50 for £5 extra a month. Have to wait and see what the engineer say of maximum data rate on my line from his test kit.
Will the engineer replaced G.fast faceplate?
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Yes still got Zyxel XMG3927-B50A
It's time for it to shine!
I can't remember if new service of G.fast on the day of first installing by engineer mean DLM will be inactive for the first 48 hours is that correct?
Should be active immediately, with 3 dB SNRM set in both directions initially.
The isp told me I better off start off with G.fast 160/30 see how it go and the isp will tell me if my line is good enough for upgraded to G.fast 330/50 for £5 extra a month. Have to wait and see what the engineer say of maximum data rate on my line from his test kit.
Good call. Though 160/30 is probably good enough for you both.
Will the engineer replaced G.fast faceplate?
They will replace the NTE socket with the 5C version and presumably the latest MK version of the faceplate available if it hasn't been done so already.
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TalkTalk Business G.fast 160/30 £50 a month inc vat and line only (no outgoing calls) with one static ip address (12 months contract) free installation charge for both line rental transfer and g.fast set up fee (free)
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TTB don't do 12 month contracts, they're 24, and they charge £29.95 + VAT for 160.
The prices are also quoted exclusive of VAT as all business packages are by default.
You could do worse than rechecking this. That's really expensive for 160.
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Will going to phone them to see if that £50 are included vat and 12 months contract
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£50 seems a lot per month, especially if it excludes VAT.
I've just taken a look at the site and it should be a 24 month contract but the price, excluding VAT, is discounted to £25.95/m for 12 months then it is £29.95/m for the reminader of the contract.
Perhaps if you have an email from them, you could PM me a screenshot with your personal details removed or just copy the pricing details?
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Invoice Items
Description Amount
G.Fast 160/30 - 12 Month Contract (11/05/2021 - 10/06/2021) * £41.66 GBP
Sub Total £41.66 GBP
20.00% UK VAT £8.33 GBP
Credit £0.00 GBP
Total £49.99 GBP
* Indicates a taxed item.
Transaction Date Gateway Transaction ID Amount
Wednesday, May 19th, 2021 Direct Debit ******************* £49.99 GBP
Balance £0.00 GBP
Ultrafast FTTC
G.Fast 160/30 - 12 Month Contract - Line Only
Registration Date
Tuesday, May 11th, 2021
Recurring Amount (ex VAT)
£41.66 GBP
Billing Cycle
Monthly
Next Due Date
Friday, June 11th, 2021
Payment Method
Direct Debit
Ultrafast FTTC
G.Fast 160/30 - 12 Month Contract
Pending due on 26th May 2021
Line Only Phone Number 01952****** - 12 Month Contract
Pending due on 26th May 2021
G.Fast 160/30 - 12 Month Contract
1 Static IPv4 & Static IPv6 /48
No filtering
Up to 160mbps download and 30mbps upload
Line Rental Included (Emergency Calls Only)
Unlimited
Free Install/Migration
Due to the speeds of this service we advise customers to find and purchase a router of their choosing. A modem configured as an ethernet bridge will be provided as part of the engineer installation.
£41.66 GBP plus vat 20%
Monthly £49.99
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When you contacted them initially, did you specifically request a 12 month contract? It's interesting because they only advertise 24 months, though they do offer 12 month contracts to their partners so perhaps it is actually possible.
I do not want to encourage you to change your mind, but it seems much better value to take their 24 month offering. Unless there is something I am missing here.
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Been confirmed it 12 months ;D
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Been confirmed it 12 months ;D
That's for the Wholesale. What TalkTalk Business actually sells directly to customers (non-partners) usually has a 24 month contract.
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Yes, my isp is Wholesale partner with TalkTalk Business (not directly with TTB myself) as I know they are 24 month contract! Sorry for confused you all. Will PM u re0
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Yes still got Zyxel XMG3927-B50A
Good.
Still very nervous of next week switch over to G.fast from FTTC. Different network changed as well from Plusnet Openreach network to TalkTalk Business Network.
Your current Plusnet service is carried on Openreach infrastructure as will your new TTB service. So the mention of Openreach in your second sentence, quoted above, is both redundant and irrelevant.
Will the engineer replaced G.fast faceplate?
Possibly. Maybe. (I'm not that sure one would be particularly useful. All of those clip-on faceplates and filters have been built to a cost rather than a standard . . . and it shows in the quality of the contruction.)
If you do not use a telephony service on that line then no filters are required.
[Edited to fix a typo.]
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Does new service G.fast carry the same DLM history record to be carried forward onto G.fast service or will it be brand new DLM resetted?
Does this router Zyxel XMG3927-B50A will show full stats rather than Openreach modem for dslstats?
The new ISP wholesale from TalkTalk Business is UnchainedISP https://clients.unchainedisp.net/cart.php?gid=25 as they reply to my ticket below:
Hi,
Many thanks for this information. These will help me. Am I correct that my line rental will remain with BT Wholesale and G.fast will be either TalkTalk Business or BT Wholesale backhaul?
The G.Fast will be using TalkTalk Business backhaul back to our network and the line rental is also moving away from Plusnet into our control and will be an Openreach WLR line. The line can only be used for emergency calls outbound though. You will still receive inbound calls as normal but as I know you're hard of hearing, I seem to recall you don't use the landline phone very much.
Cheers,
UnchainedISP
P.S. I almost moved to Zen Internet for G.fast but they told me they don't do G.fast 160/30 anymore as they put the higher speed tier now as they say my line only do 119/14 (don't know why zen is very low estimate speed for G.fast) for £59.99 a month on a 24 month contract as I told them no thanks. This is why I went for UnchainedISP as they can do G.fast 160/30 via TTB backhaul, including static ip address and only 12 month contract. Next door neighbour they told me they have no issues with EE G.fast as they are getting 270/44 in the last 10 months, so I expecting 160/30 should be easy on my line.
I am using plusnet hub at the moment as my Zyxel XMG3927-B50A are saved all the new isp username / password with G.fast vlan 101 PPPoE (ready for next week)
4. Board version: Plusnet Hub One
5. DSL uptime: 0 days, 23:37:18
6. Data rate: 19999 / 79903
7. Maximum data rate: 20628 / 79935
8. Noise margin: 6.2 / 5.0
9. Line attenuation: 12.3 / 10.7
10. Signal attenuation: 12.3 / 10.7
11. Data sent/received: 6.7 GB / 39.3 GB
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It doesn't carry any DLM history. Completely new.
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It doesn't carry any DLM history. Completely new.
Does DLM active straight away on the same day installation (or will DLM kick in active after 48 hours)?
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Does this router Zyxel XMG3927-B50A will show full stats rather than Openreach modem for dslstats?
the XMG3927-B50A will work with DSLstats. I have been using it for about 2 years with this device. The OR modem will give you no stats.
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the XMG3927-B50A will work with DSLstats. I have been using it for about 2 years with this device. The OR modem will give you no stats.
So, I will swap over to XMG3927-B50A when the engineer left, unplugged openreach modem and put it away in the cupboard. cheers
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So, I will swap over to XMG3927-B50A when the engineer left, unplugged openreach modem and put it away in the cupboard. cheers
I can't help thinking your health would benefit from using the Openreach modem and ignoring the line stats entirely.
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I can't help thinking your health would benefit from using the Openreach modem and ignoring the line stats entirely.
I'd second that.
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You didn't stay off this for long, did you :( You really need some help, this can't be healthy or good for anyone.
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So, I will swap over to XMG3927-B50A when the engineer left, unplugged openreach modem and put it away in the cupboard. cheers
Good idea, is the Zyxel on the latest firmware?
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@adslmax, please just use your ZyXel as a router and leave the Openreach modem in place. None of us want to see you obsessing about stats again as it really isn't a good place to be, and I think you know that too.
:)
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Don't worry guys I only look up stats one off but maybe you all are right. I think better off using Openreach modem and hook up with TP Link wireless router VR2600 the engineer will be able to tell me what the max line rate, if it was well over 160/30. Then leave it and both of us can enjoy netflix, xbox gaming, nowtv etc.
Don't need dslstats afterall
I have work out maths between TalkTalk Business ISP v Unchained ISP - I prefer 12 month contract.
TalkTalk Business Ultrafast Fibre 150 with line rental, 1 x free static ip address, free router,
openreach gfast modem, free connection and setup fee, 24/7/365 UK full support, 24 month contract
£31.14 x 12 = £373.68
£35.94 x 12 = £431.28
Total x 24 = £804.96
UnchainedISP (Business G.fast 160/30 with TTB) with line only, 1 x free static ip address,
openreach gfast modem, free connection and setup fee, 24/7/365 UK full support, 12 month contract
£49.99 x 12 = £599.88
Total x 12 = £599.88
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You didn't stay off this for long, did you :( You really need some help, this can't be healthy or good for anyone.
At what point does the moderation team restrict this user from posting for their own good? This obsession really can’t be good.
Perhaps skip threads created by Max if you have no interest reading them.
He already received a year ban on Thinkbroadband, which is now up.
During that time he's been much better and sought help for mental health issues.
This is his 1st thread in over a year about switching ISP.
Is he never allowed to discuss changing ISP because of his previous posts?
I've criticised max a lot in the past, but he's taken advise from members here and elsewhere and made an effort to improve things.
I don't see how shunning him will help.
No you’re not fine. Not at all, this isn’t healthy.
That just comes across as being rude.
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Some nice bloke from PN staff don't recommend me move away from ISP as PN will look after me and told me I should stay on with PN FTTC 80/20 but downgraded to 40/10 would be better as they say I don't use broadband usage much over the last 12 months. PN asked me are you really ok? Because u seem want to move to faster gfast which PN saying it a completely waste of money if I don't use it much.
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Some nice bloke from PN staff don't recommend me move away from ISP as PN will look after me and told me I should stay on with PN FTTC 80/20 but downgraded to 40/10 would be better as they say I don't use broadband usage much over the last 12 months. PN asked me are you really ok? Because u seem want to move to faster gfast which PN saying it a completely waste of money if I don't use it much.
If you need faster speeds, go with G.Fast.
If you don't, stay where you are. You have a great deal with Plusnet.
It isn't fair to ISP's to create orders that you don't intend on going through with.
You also created threads here and on TBB about switching again.
That's part of the reason why you get posts like the ones above max.
Go with what you need, not what you can brag about max.
Good luck with your Dr appointment.
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Thanks John
I will not cancel G.fast because my daughter want it as well. She use alots on her xbox gaming. She willing pay me half of it. Once G.fast installed, I shall forget it, enjoy the netflix tv uhd4K.
Thanks I hope doctor reviews are good news not bad news as my daughter is my full time carer for me.
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I was about to make a different post but several posts have occurred since I started typing, so if editing it accordingly. We in the past have been quite outspoken and frank with Max. I'd like to think that some of that frankness is what pushed him to get medical help last time.
I am concerned that Max started using that silly constant speed-tester last week.... but as his renewal is dueI can in part understand that will have caused him to start looking again. I am also concerned about the financial aspect..... but for the rest of it, J0hn has already summarised the facts of what else I was going to say, in his post above.
If you need faster speeds, go with G.Fast.
If you don't, stay where you are. You have a great deal with Plusnet.
It isn't fair to ISP's to create orders that you don't intend on going through with.
You also created threads here and on TBB about switching again.
That's part of the reason why you get posts like the ones above max.
Go with what you need, not what you can brag about max.
Good luck with your Dr appointment.
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kitz
In my honest I don't look up speed test often now. Only checked when my daughter or me noticed slowdown in internet speed eg: buffering!
We both are happy to go ahead with G.fast 160/30 for extra speed at £25 each (that's price was the same as PN FTTC 80/20 at £25.99 offer) - this time it the right time to move away from PN since 2012.
G.fast 160/30 with TTB (under UnchainedISP) can't go wrong. Should be fine. Once it fully activated and go live next week. I can switch off mind and enjoy the internet, watch tv (streaming). Not bother about G.fast 330/50 for an extra fiver. 160/30 are perfect fine.
Honest my health are much better now than 12 months ago.
The reason for UnchainedISP is offer 12 month contract as they do have TTB on it. I don't want 24 month contract if I go much cheaper with TalkTalk Business directly with them because we don't know if we still living the same house for next 2 years. My daughter could be moving out next year. And left me to fork up £50 a month alone.
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Enjoy the g.fast mate, you have waited a long time for it.
No g.fast around by us, and being semi-rural I reckon we could be stuck with vdsl for a VERY long time.
I am pleased for you though ;D ;)
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Enjoy the g.fast mate, you have waited a long time for it.
No g.fast around by us, and being semi-rural I reckon we could be stuck with vdsl for a VERY long time.
I am pleased for you though ;D ;)
Thanks for your kind words
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No g.fast around by us, and being semi-rural I reckon we could be stuck with vdsl for a VERY long time.
I am sure FTTP will come sooner or later :fingers:
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Got one more question:
Does Gfast need to be ten days training to stable the line just like ADSL/ADSL2+ do?
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Got one more question:
Does Gfast need to be ten days training to stable the line just like ADSL/ADSL2+ do?
No, it behaves in a similar fashion as a VDSL2 (FTTC based) circuit. I.e. After G.Fast has been installed and the service has been operating for a full 24 hours then the circuit is monitored by the DLM.
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Many thanks that's good to know! :) Next door told me they loving their Gfast service, no issues over 10 months always steady over 240Meg down and over 40Meg up. So, I guess mine will be fine with steady 148Meg down and 28Meg up (after overheads and IP Profile) just similiar like FTTC did on 74/18 after overheads & ip profile on 80/20
I have notice BTw checker has changed in G.fast estimated today: (must be exchange to crappy Plusnet hub one router that reduced this estimate line speed)
Before:
Telephone Number 01952****** on Exchange CUCKOO OAK is served by Cabinet 8
Featured Products
Downstream Line Rate(Mbps)
Upstream Line Rate(Mbps)
Downstream Handback Threshold(Mbps)
WBC FTTC Availability Date
WBC SOGEA Availability Date
Left in Jumper
VDSL Range A (Clean) 80 74 20 19 67 Available Available
VDSL Range B (Impacted) 80 73.4 20 19 67 Available Available
G.fast Range A (Clean) 282.9 203.6 44.1 21.3 179.8 Amber Amber
G.fast Range B (Impacted) 237.6 173.8 31.1 15.4 157.8 Amber Amber
After:
Telephone Number 01952****** on Exchange CUCKOO OAK is served by Cabinet 8
Featured Products
Downstream Line Rate(Mbps)
Upstream Line Rate(Mbps)
Downstream Handback Threshold(Mbps)
WBC FTTC Availability Date
WBC SOGEA Availability Date
Left in Jumper
High Low High Low
VDSL Range A (Clean) 80 72.1 20 19 66.4 Available Available --
VDSL Range B (Impacted) 80 69.3 20 19 61.9 Available Available --
G.fast Range A (Clean) 214 163.1 30.9 13.1 141.2 Amber Amber --
G.fast Range B (Impacted) 173 119 20.5 9.9 104.8 Amber Amber --
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Next door told me 10 months ago the engineer tested their kit and say their line approx 180m away from the cabinet 8, so hopefully mine was the same around 180m away from the G.fast pod cabinet.
PN GEA TEST say Estimated Line Length In Metres: 243.6
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Let's wait and see what the service is like once it has been connected. Remember that an estimate is just that, an estimate . . . be it speed or line length. :)
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Yes I agree, I will be very nervous next Wednesday when the engineer come with test kit (hope it not falling below 100Meg mark) if that happen, will Openreach cancel that G.fast not accepted with speed below 100Meg!
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I'm confident you will get the full 160/30 with no problem at all.
Going by your estimates and what your neighbour says they receive, you would get similar speeds on the higher package.
I don't think you will need higher than 160/30 though.
I'm on BT FTTP 160/30 with 2 adults and a teenager and it is more than enough for us.
TBH I could have made do with 80/20 but there was only £3 difference to double the speed so I went with the higher tier.
Don't worry that the estimates have dropped.
You signed up before that so your minimum guarantee should be based on the old estimates.
They are only estimates anyway.
Out of interest what estimates and what minimum guarantee did they quote you?
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Out of interest what estimates and what minimum guarantee did they quote you?
Zen give me 119/14 (maybe they don't want me) see screenshot below
UnchainedISP give me 220/37 (that for estimate but say I should get 160/30 spot on)
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j0hn - got question to ask u
Any idea if my exchange Cuckoo Oak Talktalk Business have GEA Cablelinks 10Gb for G.fast? Don't want to end up congestion overscription network.
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Zen give me 119/14 (maybe they don't want me) see screenshot below
UnchainedISP give me 220/37 (that for estimate but say I should get 160/30 spot on)
You had G.Fast installed on this line in December 2019 - https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,24139.msg406421.html#msg406421 - so you should know exactly how it is going to perform
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j0hn - got question to ask u
Any idea if my exchange Cuckoo Oak Talktalk Business have GEA Cablelinks 10Gb for G.fast? Don't want to end up congestion overscription network.
Cuckoo Oak has no Cablelinks as it's not a Headend exchange.
Only TTB and Openreach know what they have at your headend however congestion is unlikely.
My 300 FTTP service is on a 1Gbit cablelink and never congests.
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You had G.Fast installed on this line in December 2019 - https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,24139.msg406421.html#msg406421 - so you should know exactly how it is going to perform
That's was in 2019. but things has changed estimated now
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Cuckoo Oak has no Cablelinks as it's not a Headend exchange.
Only TTB and Openreach know what they have at your headend however congestion is unlikely.
My 300 FTTP service is on a 1Gbit cablelink and never congests.
Thanks
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Good news UnchainedISP informed me that Openreach engineer will come on Tuesday AM slot between 8am and 1pm 25th May. :)
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I thought the install was on 26th May?
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I thought the install was on 26th May?
The ISP say it now 25th May instead of 26th. But who care! The earlier the better! ;D ;D
Updated: BTw checker has changed from May 26th to 25th ;D
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Roll on Tuesday ;D
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Roll on Tuesday ;D
Yep! Not long now! Stick to the gun this time (no regret) not gonna to cancelled. By the way I off to see my doctor with my interpreter in half an hour. I better get ready but I am nervous with my GP examine me and positive good news outcome
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That's was in 2019. but things has changed estimated now
The actual line itself hasn't really changed. Estimates irrelevant, should be more than fine for 160/30.
A reminder g.fast has vectoring so amount of subscribers shouldn't matter much.
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As others have already mentioned, because g.fast uses vectoring then it escapes the sometimes huge losses due to crosstalk we've seen with vdsl2.
So it should perform similar to last time.
Whilst on that topic.. a reminder to you: IIRC most of your problems and unhappiness last time you were on g.fast seemed to stem from the fact you felt that the 160/30 product would have been better suited for your requirements and you wished that you hadn't gone for the higher speed. It may be best to remember that just in case you are tempted. Good luck for Tues.
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Many thanks. Look forward to Tuesday :) and lovely tea and cake for the engineer. It's would be better & best not to know the higher attainable from the engineer's JDSU tester as long I am more than happy to have 160/30 for many years to come but if FTTP come along (160/30) I will take that depend on the price cost.
This Tuesday I leave the engineer to hook up openreach modem along with my TP Link Wireless Router from WAN port. When he gone, powered down for 30 minutes and swap to one router (G.fast) XMG3927-B50A with the latest firmware already on it V5.17(ABMT.5)C0 and few settings changed all thanks to helpful from re0 and shall leave it alone, forget the dslstats. Enjoy the service! But, of course have to do one off check on the router stats and one off speed test and that's was it.
Updated: next door told me few days ago their G.fast has been ongoing connected for nearly 10 months with no issues from the cabinet 8 (that's good to know) as I know their EE are using BTw backhaul. TalkTalk Business backhaul shouldn't be any problem either.
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Updated:
Btw checker has changed estimates (increase speed in gfast) :)
Telephone Number 01952****** on Exchange CUCKOO OAK is served by Cabinet 8
Featured Products
Downstream Line Rate(Mbps)
Upstream Line Rate(Mbps)
Downstream Handback Threshold(Mbps)
WBC FTTC Availability Date
WBC SOGEA Availability Date
Left in Jumper
High Low High Low
VDSL Range A (Clean) 80 74 20 19 67 Available Available
VDSL Range B (Impacted) 80 73.4 20 19 67 Available Available
G.fast Range A (Clean) 282.9 203.6 44.1 21.3 179.8 Amber Amber
G.fast Range B (Impacted) 237.6 173.8 31.1 15.4 157.8 Amber Amber
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There's no real need for you to show us the daily changes in the estimate, Max. Remember, an estimate is just that . . . an estimate! :)
Wait until the install has taken place, then show us the figures.
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burakkucat
Not sure of that. Plusnet / BTw have their own bras ip profile on both sides. TalkTalk Business doesn't have any bras ip profile?
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The estimates have absolutely nothing to do with bRAS profiles. :no: As b*cat said.. they are nothing more than best guesses.
About the only thing I can think may cause changes are perhaps your neighbours performance. Not that his line will affect yours, but more to do with that they can sometimes take the r/l speeds of any near/neighbouring lines as an indication to what you may perhaps be expected to get. For example if my neighbour got g.fast first and our line lengths are very similar, then the speed they sync at could be used to estimate what speed Openreach think I might be able to get.
TalkTalk Business doesn't have any bras ip profile?
You are thinking of LLU ADSL(2+) and their own MSANs in the exchange.
The streetcab DSLAMs belong to Openreach, so its Openreach's DLM.
I'm trying to think why you'd bring the ip-profile into it? ip-profile is based on your actual and real time sync speed.
With you mentioning PN are you thinking about the Plusnet line speed rate, which is based off the BTw ip-profile, but again nothing to do with DLM or speed estimates.
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I was talk about if my FTTC 80/20 suddenly down to 28/20 then I check BTw ip profile as it say 77.35Mbps and check PN current line speed was set at 25 Mb (then I know PN are capped the line) and raised fault on the line.
If TalkTalk Business OR ip profile for G.fast 154Mbps from 160/30 and TalkTalk Business current line speed could match the Openreach ip profile. Sorry kitz - I thought TalkTalk Business use LLU G.fast. My mistake
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Openreach don't have an IP profile.
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I was talk about if my FTTC 80/20 suddenly down to 28/20 then I check BTw ip profile as it say 77.35Mbps and check PN current line speed was set at 25 Mb (then I know PN are capped the line) and raised fault on the line.
For the PN line speed profile to be at 25Mb, then the BTw IP profile must have also been at 25Mb at one point. Which in turn means that your line must have sync'd at 25Mbps at some time. The estimates can and do take into account any real sync speeds of your existing line - or if its a new service, then any nearby lines that have the service (such as your neighbour). You haven't got a service yet, so it's likely to be taking your neighbours line into account.
G.Fast uses SRA (Seamless rate adaption), so your neighbour probably wont even notice when his line resyncs at a new speed.
The PN line profile follows the BTw IP profile... except whilst it goes down fine, their system isnt very good at automatically increasing it again - particularly if you have a static IP. So the estimates don't have anything to do with the PN line profile.... its just that the PN profile is still showing that at some point you sync'd at 25Mb.
If TalkTalk Business OR ip profile for G.fast 154Mbps from 160/30 and TalkTalk Business current line speed could match the Openreach ip profile. Sorry kitz - I thought TalkTalk Business use LLU G.fast. My mistake
No worries. It's only ADSL that has LLU.
Although the LLU based ISPs tend to purchase their own cable-links for backhaul... unlike ADSL where they have their own MSANs in the exchange, with VDSL/FTTC/G.Fast, all the DSLAMS/MSANS are in the street so it all belongs to Openreach and therefore Openreach DLM.
TalkTalk Business doesnt have a "current line speed" like Plusnet does. Perhaps thats what you were thinking? As such no need to worry about it getting stuck low like what happens sometimes with PN :)
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TalkTalk Business doesnt have a "current line speed" like Plusnet does. Perhaps thats what you were thinking? As such no need to worry about it getting stuck low like what happens sometimes with PN :)
That's good to know TTB isn't affect cos I know PN current line speed is very quick to degrade speed profile but taking forever to increase (sometimes it stuck - have to request via plusnet can be very annoying as I know these can issues problem on Static IP)
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My both routers already setup and ready now. I have make sure ticked all boxes on Zyzel G.fast router in advanced to make sure G.fast / SRA is enabled with VLAN 101 and TP Link for WAN only from Openreach G.fast modem that will start off first from the engineer cos if I using Zyzel G.fast router and it working on G.fast on it own then the engineer could tell me you don't need openreach g.fast modem and take it away to the van.
Thanks everyone. I better get sleep. Roll on onto Tuesday and I will report back how it goes plus one off stats from the dslstats on my Zyzel router.
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G.Fast uses SRA (Seamless rate adaption), so your neighbour probably wont even notice when his line resyncs at a new speed.
Me typing that above, just made me recall how I think you said your neighbour says his g.fast is good and he's happy with his speeds and his connection etc.
It's perfectly true that these speed changes happen so fast, you wont notice when your line negotiates a new speed for reasons of stability. There's possibly lots going on in the background that he never knows about nor notices. Therefore the line is doing it's thing and he's perfectly happy with it. It's got SRA and Vectoring, so no nasty crosstalk effects either to worry about. \o/
He's not watching stats and perhaps only doing the occasional speed test. His line copes well with whatever he needs it to do. He may have a slight glitch, but he might not have been using his connection at the time, so never noticed and it doesn't matter at all to him. As far as he's concerned it works when he needs it to. There's a big lesson there Max. Follow his example and leave the stats alone. Obviously you will be curious at the beginning to see what speed you get, that is fine and perfectly acceptable - we all want to know that. But afterwards leave them alone! Also leave the speedtesters alone, don't install anything like that one you did the other week that actually had the potential to slow down your connection and make it worse than it really was.
I'm quite sure we all want to see your new speedtest too and we will be happy for you. BUT aside from the occasional one, leave those alone too. You have no need to know what its doing every minute of the day. In a country where most of us are still stuck with FTTC and where the vast majority can't even get full 80Mb, you are going to have one of the fastest connections. Be happy in the knowledge that you are going to have one of the fastest connections. If you think like that, then it will help your mental and physical health for sure :)
There is always going to be someone who does have faster speeds - take for example CarlT - but he works from home and he needs it to be able to do his job. He doesn't need to worry about the financial side because iirc his employer pays for it. You are never going to be able to compete with people who have fast work related connections. But as far as normal residential use goes, until FTTH rolls out more, then you are exceedingly lucky.
I'm quite sure that every single one of us wishes you well for next week and wanting you to finally be happy with your shiny new fast connection. Its about time you had some fun with your broadband.... so forget about the stats and test... and go enjoy your connection instead of worrying about it. :)
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PS Kinda whilst on topic of g.fast.
My daughter surrendered their g.fast about a year ago Some of you may recall they had recurring problems since the collapse of a mains duct and it was still dropping out numerous times per day despite the road being dug up and supposedly fixed. They've gone back to 80/20 and she is perfectly happy again as they aren't losing connection. Because of Covid-19, they are both working from home atm. She needs to do a lot of uploading of large files, so no tearing out hair when the line goes down for 20-30 mins at a time. He works in IT and spends all day on internet calls & video calls where a stable connection 9-5 is crucial, as it doesn't look good if he loses a call with a customer. No idea why whatever it was couldn't be fixed satisfactory, I have a few own thoughts, but as I couldnt get over and neither are interested in stats there's no point theorising, other than to say that during one frustrated call to me it seemed like she may have actually had sync but no PPP. They are now with a different ISP and my daughter is glad to see the back of the horrid boxes - the name she used was worse, but if I say one was a Fritz!box it doesn't take too much imagination to guess. It was an interesting experiment but just goes to show, speed isn't everything.
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Hope all goes well Max on installation day :fingers:
One thing I've enjoyed since changing to Virgin is no more stats, we still have VDSL at work, and I still log the stats but I never look at them. I may open the GUI every other week or so, but thats about it.
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Hopefully getting FTTP very soon and then will never need to consider stats again :P
@kitz are you part of this FTTP or is it just PLF.
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@Kitz WRT to Plusnet "current line speed" I am utterly convinced it never increases on its own when it drops down to a low level. I recall having this issue for years and the only way to ever get it fixed was to phone up.
Why do they use such a stupid system, when no other ISP I know of has this issue, including BT? Why doesn't it update on its own, there must be a technical reason
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Hopefully getting FTTP very soon and then will never need to consider stats again :P
@kitz are you part of this FTTP or is it just PLF.
You lucky so and so.
However, I've spotted Openreach vans, a lot of them nearby my street and new boxes and things appearing on poles...... Even saw an OR bloke up a pole. Something's happening, I can feel it.
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@Kitz WRT to Plusnet "current line speed" I am utterly convinced it never increases on its own when it drops down to a low level. I recall having this issue for years and the only way to ever get it fixed was to phone up.
Why do they use such a stupid system, when no other ISP I know of has this issue, including BT? Why doesn't it update on its own, there must be a technical reason
I did telling Gandalf (PN staff) many times in the past but kept pushed feedback to PN but nothing was ever done!
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Updated:
UnchainedISP have given me new Static IP Address and told me to ensure the router setting up for IPv6 config
I have no knowedge or how to set up IPv6 on my Zyxel router?
@Kitz next door went for G.fast 330/50 because they using uploads but told me this morning their current sync was closer to 290/48 (this appear mine 160/30 will be so easy no problem) but I don't need 330/50 for now.
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@Kitz WRT to Plusnet "current line speed" I am utterly convinced it never increases on its own when it drops down to a low level. I recall having this issue for years and the only way to ever get it fixed was to phone up.
Why do they use such a stupid system, when no other ISP I know of has this issue, including BT? Why doesn't it update on its own, there must be a technical reason
I believe this only tends to happen to people with static IP's, or thats certainly how I understood it.
I have given up getting mine reset, thankfully FTTP is nigh so wont be an issue for much longer!
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UnchainedISP have given me new Static IP Address and told me to ensure the router setting up for IPv6 config
I have no knowedge or how to set up IPv6 on my Zyxel router?
Unless you have a specific setup, the router will be setup to obtain the IP address(es) automatically. You do not need to change this.
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re0 - thanks. It's set on obtain the IP address(es) automatically.
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@kitz are you part of this FTTP or is it just PLF.
We were Phase I announced Jan 2020. My property was rod and roped (https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,24319.msg417642.html#msg417642) in Jun 2020.
Even though its been available for nearly a year on the checker, I've not done so due to personal reasons.
I've not even bothered chasing the fact that my connection is running below its min guaranteed rate and I'm banded at 60Mbps. Feel too ill atm to be bothered with very much and as long as it my connection copes with what I use it for, then I'm ok with that.
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@Kitz WRT to Plusnet "current line speed" I am utterly convinced it never increases on its own when it drops down to a low level. I recall having this issue for years and the only way to ever get it fixed was to phone up.
I agree. It just affects the static IP's which go through a different gateway.
In fact I believe those connections with a dynamic IP dont have the 'line speed restriction' applied any more. It's my belief because it now affects such a tiny portion of their accounts that it won't be fixed any time soon.
Why do they use such a stupid system, when no other ISP I know of has this issue, including BT? Why doesn't it update on its own, there must be a technical reason.
I think in part it had something to do with their interpretation of the BTw rule in one of the SINs that states something like 'The ISP must ensure that they limit the line to ensure traffic passed on to the BTw backhauls does not exceed the current line speed rate.' * They are not the only ISP that does it, for example AAISP does - but theirs works as it should and so no one notices.
Because its a requirement in SINET, then probably every ISP that uses WBMC Shared will also be doing something, but I have a suspicion they may have interpreted it at say 80Mbps or 40Mbps rather than the actual line rate. Now that they have their own MSILs for the dynamic accounts, then they don't bother.
*Too weary to wade through SINET to find the exact wording, but it is in there somewhere.
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@Kitz next door went for G.fast 330/50 because they using uploads but told me this morning their current sync was closer to 290/48 (this appear mine 160/30 will be so easy no problem)
There you go then, if they sync at 290 and the checker said
G.fast Range A (Clean) 282.9
that figure looks about right by the time you take off the IP overheads from the 290 sync speed to calculate your estimated speeds.
No need to keep checking it though, because its not going to make one jot of a difference to what you will actually get on the day.
but I don't need 330/50 for now.
No you don't need it.
Stay well away from it please - Remember this is what made you unhappy last time you got g.fast, when your sync speed wasn't getting the full 330 and kept changing.... so you thought you were paying for something that you weren't fully getting and constantly worrying about your speeds.
G.Fast uses SRA and if you ordered the higher speed product then just like last time your sync speed will constantly change, but highly unlikely to reach the full 330. It will only trigger off your illness again. The only reason you have our support this time and we are happy to help is because you have chosen a product that your line should be able to fully achieve. You would without doubt have got a totally different response from most of us here if you had ordered the 330 product again. Don't do it Max.
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Kitz
Trust me I will not having 330/50. Don't need it anyway. Even if FTTP come I would stick with 160/30 the same with g. Fast 160/30 are more than enough for me and daughter in the house.
Don't worry I will not having anything more than 160/30.
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I agree. It just affects the static IP's which go through a different gateway.
In fact I believe those connections with a dynamic IP dont have the 'line speed restriction' applied any more. It's my belief because it now affects such a tiny portion of their accounts that it won't be fixed any time soon.
I think in part it had something to do with their interpretation of the BTw rule in one of the SINs that states something like 'The ISP must ensure that they limit the line to ensure traffic passed on to the BTw backhauls does not exceed the current line speed rate.' * They are not the only ISP that does it, for example AAISP does - but theirs works as it should and so no one notices.
Because its a requirement in SINET, then probably every ISP that uses WBMC Shared will also be doing something, but I have a suspicion they may have interpreted it at say 80Mbps or 40Mbps rather than the actual line rate. Now that they have their own MSILs for the dynamic accounts, then they don't bother.
*Too weary to wade through SINET to find the exact wording, but it is in there somewhere.
I’ve seen reports on the Plusnet forums of it impacting customers with more than just static IPs. Indeed just over a year ago I had exactly the same issue and I definitely had a dynamic IP. Albeit the sync speed being low was caused by a fault on the line but when it was fixed they had to manually up the current line speed so that I could use the new speed.
It’s an incredibly stupid system.
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I can’t wait for FTTP but even as a heavy user (terabytes a month - is that still heavy?) I’m not sure I’d even go for 330Mb, let alone 1Gb. Maybe 150 or something, it’s the upload that I would find more useful.
Does anyone else feel the same?
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Does anyone else feel the same?
For me the price differences make it almost a no brainer, for the sake of £20-£25 id rather not be limited.
I am actually surprised the higher tier products do not cost a little more, £55 for 1000/100 seem reasonable when I am already paying £27 for 40/10 via FTTC :)
Up until recently I actually had 2 lines bonded but dropped one when I noticed FTTP being installed rather than renew its contract, so for me its not really going to be any different.
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For me the price differences make it almost a no brainer, for the sake of £20-£25 id rather not be limited.
I am actually surprised the higher tier products do not cost a little more, £55 for 1000/100 seem reasonable when I am already paying £27 for 40/10 via FTTC :)
Up until recently I actually had 2 lines bonded but dropped one when I noticed FTTP being installed rather than renew its contract, so for me its not really going to be any different.
Fair point, I will likely try and negotiate with my ISP and then leave to go to whoever is cheapest, if/when FTTP comes along.
I suspect like FTTC, in time the prices will be exactly the same and people will be moved manually. In fact, aren't the FTTC 40/80 tariffs the same price over FTTP now?
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If they are not the same they are very very similar!
On our estate we now have 3 FTTC cabinets attached to our PCP and yet still we are waiting list more often than not, they have now also fully installed FTTP to pretty much all locations (awaiting go live)
I suspect over the next few years they will see who moves naturally and then as you say start migrating those that don't at some point.
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@Max FTTP is totally different to FTTC.
It doesn't work in the same way that VDSL & ADSL does and you get the speed band that you pay for.
Please don't let a discussion about FTTP start you thinking about higher speeds. Step at a time right. I also don't want you tying yourself up to long contracts, so no changing products or anything. I know you and what happens if say next year that you can get FTTP but 2 months prior you'd tied yourself up to a new contract. It would literally kill you knowing that FTTP is available, but you are stuck on a FTTC contract that you can't get out of.
When you sign up for something there is a reason why they put a contract in place - to recoup their own costs they have to pay to Openreach/BTw/etc. I still think what you did with Green ISP was unfair. ISPs such as that work on a tiny profit margin and that poor guy was left to pick up the bill for you connection fee to Openreach leaving him out of pocket -not to mention all the work involved and time that you must have spent taking up. A few 'customers' like you could easily cause someone like that to go out of business.
Step at a time and don't do anything rash. You've had a lot of support in this forum from people giving you practical advice who do have your best interests at heart. We've been very patient with you & you've made some rash decisions in the past. Lets not set yourself up for another.
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Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
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Kitz - don't worry I was planned to stay with UnchainedISP G fast 160/30 for 12 month in a 12 month contract he did told me once FTTP is become available you can regrade it from G.fast to FTTP but at present I can see three areas for FTTP roll out by OR is three areas that doesn't have any G.fast there as OR plan to bring FTTP to them.
For my area (with G.fast) more likely I am the last area to get FTTP probably after few years or long while off.
Anyway, here we come - Last Day with PN today and Tomorrow big day start of G.fast! ;D :)
Updated:
Got my SMS text message from engineer to say site visit for broadband phone service up and running at my property tomorrow between 8am and 1pm. :) :)
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Good :)
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I can’t wait for FTTP but even as a heavy user (terabytes a month - is that still heavy?) I’m not sure I’d even go for 330Mb, let alone 1Gb. Maybe 150 or something, it’s the upload that I would find more useful.
Does anyone else feel the same?
Currently forking out £96 a month to run AAISP + Sky fibre for 130Mbps across 2 x FTTC circuits.
Zen offering 900/110 for £63 a month FTTP - when I can order that they can just take my money. I'll be going for that.
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£63 is a lot for broadband, currently I pay £17 for TalkTalk 76Mbps FTTC, hoping they might regrade me to FTTP for free :)
I can dream…
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£63 is a lot for broadband, currently I pay £17 for TalkTalk 76Mbps FTTC, hoping they might regrade me to FTTP for free :)
Not when you consider the wholesale cost its not. It boggles my mind how any ISP covers their running costs let alone profits.
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£63 is a lot for broadband, currently I pay £17 for TalkTalk 76Mbps FTTC, hoping they might regrade me to FTTP for free :)
I can dream…
Their cheapest FTTP is 160/30 data only package at £32 a month so I doubt that's a possibility
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Their cheapest FTTP is 160/30 data only package at £32 a month so I doubt that's a possibility
Nah you can get it cheaper than that if you know how to take advantage of cashback offers and/or haggle.
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Their cheapest FTTP is 160/30 data only package at £32 a month so I doubt that's a possibility
I wish I have that FTTP 160/30 for that kind of money! But soon, one day when it come to my area but probably a very long time to wait. By the way, no regret ever to look forward to my G.fast 160/30 install in the morning between 8am and 1pm. Wish me best of luck!
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Updated:
Got sms text that Openreach engineer will call me when they are on their way. They better not call me because I am hard of hearing unable to hear the engineer communication
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Updated:
Got sms text that Openreach engineer will call me when they are on their way. They better not call me because I am hard of hearing unable to hear the engineer communication
Whenever I've had an engineer appointment they will often phone shortly before they arrive. Alternatively if they are by the cabinet then they will phone to warn me that they are about to start doing the work needing to be done in order to activate the service (e.g. FTTC, or in your case G.Fast).
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Engineer here as he test earth on the line all passed he going to the cabinet now be back in half an hour. He told me you should get 330/50 pretty spot on but he will check for me on his test kit when he get back from the gfast cabinet but he say the isp limit your line 160/30 for now
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Good luck, sounds promising. Hope you get the top speed.
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Nice Openreach engineer he can use sign language that's good. He show me everything on the test kit and he check the bin cupboard of old junction box but he say thats not need to be changed. The socket are fine all passed.
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Engineer has left. Test kit showed length to the gfast cabinet from test socket is 159.88 M
gfast 160/30 https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/1621939858675828755
My gfast stats from my Zyxel G.fast Router
============================================================================
xDSL Training Status: Showtime
Mode: G.fast Annex A
Traffic Type: PTM Mode
Link Uptime: 0 day: 0 hour: 36 minutes
============================================================================
xDSL Port Details Upstream Downstream
Line Rate: 28.175 Mbps 160.251 Mbps
Actual Net Data Rate: 28.037 Mbps 159.891 Mbps
Trellis Coding: ON ON
SNR Margin: 3.2 dB 4.4 dB
Actual Delay: 0 ms 0 ms
Transmit Power: 4.0 dBm 0.0 dBm
Receive Power: 1.0 dBm 3.0 dBm
Actual INP: 540.0 symbols 550.0 symbols
Attainable Net Data Rate: 28.028 Mbps 186.263 Mbps
============================================================================
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Looks like you did the right thing going for 160/30 as you are just about within the limits for it :)
If you had gone for the higher packages I suspect you would have been disappointed.
Enjoy!
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I am happy with 160/30. Don't need higher speed. As I can see max rate is 186/28 on my router stats.
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Now I would kindly suggest you enjoy your connection, don't be looking at the stats. I'm jealous
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Now I would kindly suggest you enjoy your connection, don't be looking at the stats. I'm jealous
Yep me and my daughter can enjoy the internet now. Forget the stats now. As it max at 160/28. :)
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I think I was mistake line length isn't 158.99 M as that was data rate ::) see screenshot the test kit by openreach engineer
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Nice result there.
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re0
I think we got big problem with Zyxel wireless on 5GHz as it seem very low speed around 55-79 down but upload was fine 28 up. The speed was fine via ethernet to my pc getting 151 down and 28 up.
I did try enabled MESH on wifi as it was on auto channel scan. I check my mobile was connect 433Mbps on wifi. Is it bug wifi on Zyxel? Is your wireless router (Zyxel) are ok? if so what the correct setting for 5GHz
Can I put Zyxel as a modem mode only, if so how?) so I can try TP LINK Router wireless
Shall I better off with Openreach Gfast Modem and use TP LINK VR 2600 wireless so I don't need the stats anymore as I know I am on 160/30 all ok. The wifi seem pant on Zyxel can't get over 80Meg via wireless.
Openreach engineer say DLM on gfast won't start until next day
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Nice result there.
Thanks
:)
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re0
Shall I better off with Openreach Gfast Modem and use TP LINK VR 2600 wireless so I don't need the stats anymore as I know I am on 160/30 all ok. The wifi seem pant on Zyxel can't get over 80Meg via wireless.
Openreach engineer say DLM on gfast won't start until next day
@adslmax what firmware version have you got on your xmg3927, is your wireless set to combined ssid or separate?
I have just connected my xmg3927, so happy to diagnose a wireless issue
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My firmware is
Model Name
XMG3927-B50A
Firmware Version
V5.17(ABMT.5)C0
VDSL WAN
Rx:159891 Tx:28037 (Kbps)
WiFi Settings
2.4G WiFi Name
GFAST-MPCF 2.4GHz
WiFi Password *******************
5G WiFi Name
GFAST-MPCF 5GHz
WiFi Password *******************
Channel
Current: 6 / 20 MHz (2.4GHz)
Channel
Current: 40 / 80 MHz (5GHz)
Under WMM setting:
WMM Automatic Power Save Delivery(APSD) was ticked blue on
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I think we got big problem with Zyxel wireless on 5GHz as it seem very low speed around 55-79 down but upload was fine 28 up.
How will that cause you problems?
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I put Openreach G.fast Modem on it now and connected to TP Link VR2600 as a wireless only. The wifi much better now on TP Link 149/29 and openreach modem to pc ethernet are 151/29.
I shall leave as it now! Seem faulty Zyxel 5GHz wifi. Maybe firmware bug on wifi.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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How will that cause you problems?
If @adslmax is downloading something, it'll take twice as long.
I would disable 802.11a in the 5ghz settings.
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All sorted now. My daughter and I got 149/28 on wifi now. TP Link wireless are better. I don't understand why high Zyzel G.fast Router are very poor on 5GHz wifi.
But good news. No more stats now cos Openreach G.fast Modem (no stats) ;D ;D ;D
Will selling Zyzel G.fast Router
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I think we got big problem with Zyxel wireless on 5GHz as it seem very low speed around 55-79 down but upload was fine 28 up. ...
Are you sure the Zyxel is the issue? I'd try another wireless device before writing it off. Also, what are you doing on a phone that needs more than 80Mbps anyway?
:)
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Also what about distance from the unit?
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Here is my G fast sig as I just added sig under my name for live BQM below
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All sorted now. My daughter and I got 149/28 on wifi now. TP Link wireless are better. I don't understand why high Zyzel G.fast Router are very poor on 5GHz wifi.
But good news. No more stats now cos Openreach G.fast Modem (no stats) ;D ;D ;D
Will selling Zyzel G.fast Router
Very good news.
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No problems here. I force 802.11ac only mode for the 5 GHz band. Since I have gone back to using a unified SSID for both 2.4 and 5 GHz, this is to keep non-ac devices off the 5 GHz band. 2.4 GHz is in 802.11b/g/n mixed mode.
I'm about 2m away and 5 GHz usually gives me 280-290 Mbps down. Add a couple of walls and it's still usually more than 100-150 Mbps.
You don't need to touch MESH unless you are making a mesh network.
I cannot answer for your problem due to the nature of wireless and the different variables involved, but I'd wager that the router is not at fault.
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No problems here. I force 802.11ac only mode for the 5 GHz band.
how to do this on Zyxel?
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Nice. You did the right thing getting 160/30.
The 330/50 would be a waste of money as it wouldn't give you that much more speed - which is primarily why you were so unhappy with your last g.fast connection (and how you were unable to downgrade).
As you say, you can see your max speed from your modem is 186 Mbps and even the Openreach equip measured it at 210Mbps before any DLM applied.
Enjoy your nice new speeds :)
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PS
I've edited your signature to encapsulate the link correctly. Hope this is what you wanted to show.
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Thanks Kitz ;D Yep, the ISP told me no point for 330/50 as you won't get it. They are honest saying 160/30 are more than enough for and my daughter anyway.
re0 - I have disabled Mesh. Force 5GHz wifi on 802.11 ac and 2.4GHz wifi on 802.11b/g/n mixed. But it need to reconnected again. Not sure if I can swap now because of DLM still active or inactive?
Will try that hopefully it should improved wifi. Further more I prefer one router in the wall socket as I need spare one for Homeplug Ethernet for CCTV as Openreach modem blocked that spare socket >:(
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how to do this on Zyxel?
In Network Setting -> Wireless, select the 5 GHz band in the Wireless Network Setup, navigate to the Others tab and change the 802.11 mode to 802.11ac only.
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Done that! ;)
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If you switch it back, let me know if it makes any difference.
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If you switch it back, let me know if it makes any difference.
On 5GHz which Bandwidth to choose? 20/40/80MHz and do u need Multicast Forwarding as a ticked blue box? Are the setting look ok on screenshot?
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Is there a reason you switched 802.11 protection from "auto" to "off"?
Bandwidth at 20/40/80 is what I use. I also just leave the channel set to "Auto" so the rouer can determine what is better.
As for Multicast Forwarding, I am not sure of the impact. I would just leave it ticked (it may be greyed out depending on your setup).
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UnchainedISP getting very bad this evening as my daughter complaint her Xbox get buffering as she never experience with Plusnet FTTC. I think BIGGEST MISTAKE to switch over to G.fast now. :-[
Ethernet speed now down to 62/28 Not happy at all.
The BQM look nasty that worse than PN. I thought unchainedisp is no issues on talktalk business? I am now stuck in a 12 month contact! Can't go back to PN FTTC now. :no: The line been dropped once! :-[
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UnchainedISP getting very bad this evening as my daughter complaint her Xbox get buffering as she never experience with Plusnet FTTC. I think BIGGEST MISTAKE to switch over to G.fast now. :-[
Ethernet speed now down to 62/28 Not happy at all.
The BQM look nasty that worse than PN. I thought unchainedisp is no issues on talktalk business? I am now stuck in a 12 month contact! Can't go back to PN FTTC now. :no: The line been dropped once! :-[
@adslmax,
Would you be able to confirm the DNS servers you are using, how is the Xbox connected ethernet or wireless, are you using the zyxel or the tp-link?
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Now there is 100% packet loss on the BQM Live graph...
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It's possible he switched back to the Zyxel. The BQM will show packet loss as, by default, it blocks pings on from WAN.
Max, don't worry about it all yet. UnchainedISP does offer BTW if it's a TTB issue. My advice is just pick either the Zyxel or the G.fast Modem + TP-Link and just leave the connection alone.
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It appears to be up again now.
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My fault as I accident mess up wrong config in the Zyxel as it seem all ok now. False alarm. I stick with Openreach modem with TP Link because I understand more easily on TP Link router. The wifi much worsen on Zyxel. But seem fine with TP Link. I can see the ping down to 12ms.
Speed back to 151/30
Best leave well alone before DLM active after midnight.
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Just relax a bit. The BQM graphs can be fixed easily enough with QOS... Enjoy the moment, it will all be fine ;)
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congrats on your upgrade max. :)
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The internet drop again. Getting annoyed now. I have message UnchainedISP to move me into BTw backhaul if TTB issues ongoing but he reply say:
Hi,
You are on a 12 month contract and as such we are in a 12 month contract with our supplier, TalkTalk Business. That means we are not able to switch backhaul providers.
If you're having any sort of dropouts or latency issues, this could be related to your line and is unlikely to be an issue with the backhaul provider.
I would suggest using the supplied Openreach G.Fast modem with your TP Link and letting things settle for a few days. I don't see any issues being reported by our diagnostics checker and you're still synced at full speed so I don't think you have a line issue.
See how you get on with the Openreach supplied modem and we'll keep an eye on things from our end.
Cheers,
UnchainedISP
-
Good grief Max, nothing is simple is it. But please try calm down a minute and stop panicking.
For starters, its possible that the line may resync a few times over the coming days.
According to the Engineer, you were on open profile, so its likely that the normal DLM will start soon. I'm not sure about the DLM profiles for g.fast, but if they are similar to FTTC then you will go through a series of changes over the coming week or so. I thought you knew that any DLM changes occur during the overnight hours. I'm totally guessing here, but if it's a different RAP process (which I'd expect it to be) then it will be on its own box (RAMBO). If so, G.fast will not have as many active users so its likely to happen sooner especially as the 24hr monitoring period is now 10-10 not midnight (or is it 8-8 I forget). So do not panic if you start getting the odd resync during the wee small hours.
I can't believe youre contacting them already over something they will have little control over and/or before you even know if there is a problem and where it lies.
Re the latency. Have you done any tracerts using a wired connection? They would be interesting to see anyhow. Try doing a tracert to the BBC.
-----
Sorry with not having had g.fast and very few g.fast lines having had access to stats, I'm nor sure about the g.fast DLM process. Perhaps one of the other guys who has it may know more.
-
Kitz
Here is tracert (openreach gfast modem connected to TP Link VR2600)
Microsoft Windows [Version 10.0.19043.985]
(c) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
C:\WINDOWS\system32> tracert bbc.co.uk
Tracing route to bbc.co.uk [151.101.64.81]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms ARCHER_VR2600 [192.168.0.1]
2 13 ms 12 ms 13 ms 185.250.8.239
3 20 ms 19 ms 26 ms 185.250.8.238
4 13 ms 12 ms 13 ms thn.as51561.net [46.102.193.75]
5 14 ms 12 ms 12 ms be4482.ccr21.lon01.atlas.cogentco.com [149.6.184.181]
6 13 ms 14 ms 12 ms 149.6.2.38
7 13 ms 12 ms 12 ms 151.101.64.81
Trace complete.
C:\WINDOWS\system32>
-
Max, please listen to Kitz and also allow it a few days. If there is any instability, the DLM will adjust the parameters as it sees fit. If it is a case that 3 dB is too low, it'll increase it (in 1 dB steps). DLM seems to act not too long after midnight at the moment for me.
In reference to the response from the ISP, I am guessing they would need to prove there is a backhaul issue so they could get out of the contract with their supplier in order to move you over. It is too early to make that call.
-
As above, please just leave it alone for a few days. It's a new service and DLM will be adjusting to get the best parameters for it, and if you keep changing the modem etc it will not help with the process at all.
:)
-
I have leave Openreach Gfast Modem and TP link Router alone before few hours (midnight) as it seem all stable now. I can see LIVE BQM is much better. All household wireless are fine getting closer 150/29 same as ethernet pc.
Will leave it alone!
I put Zyxel Gfast router away in the cupboard but like all of you saying leave it alone. My isp will monitoring it.
-
Updated:
My daughter and i agree it all settled down as it seem Zyxel didn't work out well (don't know why) but the main things Openreach gfast modem with TP Link no issues so far on both ethernet and all devices in the household for wireless (both on max speed) and BQM much healthy now.
So, I am not using Zyxel for now - staying in the cupboard otherwise I could end up more issues and DLM won't like it.
-
7 13 ms 12 ms 12 ms 151.101.64.81
Your tracert is good and I don't see any problem with the latency on ethernet. Which is what you want. Wifi issues can be sorted later - they are not the ISP responsibility... but the main thing now is getting that line stable bearing in mind that DLM may make some changes with G.inp depth and 'x'dB. Any changes will happen after midnight so dont be worried if you have the odd disconnect at around this time. You have sufficient surplus SNRM so I dont envisage anything drastic happening anyhow.
-
Thanks for the warning Kitz over DLM G.inp depth and 'x'dB as long it stay at 160/30 not dropping down to 100/30.
-
Thanks for the warning Kitz over DLM G.inp depth and 'x'dB as long it stay at 160/30 not dropping down to 100/30.
Downstream is fine, its upstream that would reduce a little if it had to increase your SNRm. Even then it seems likely it would still be faster than VDSL.
Lots of people on g.FAST seem to end up with LESS upstream than VDSL, so I'd count yourself lucky either way.
-
Yes very true over very lucky to go above 20Meg on gfast upload same as my old fttc. :P
-
DLM may make some changes with G.inp depth and 'x'dB. Any changes will happen after midnight so dont be worried if you have the odd disconnect at around this time. You have sufficient surplus SNRM so I dont envisage anything drastic happening anyhow.
Ah well I don't have any stats now (can't from openreach modem as it locked) but who care about stats. As long it remain at 150Meg and above 20Meg upload. I ain't complaint! ;D ;D
-
Updated as BTw checker has changed just now:
Seem this checker are spot on this red colour plus addition +12 on both low on downstream and upstream G.fast Range A (Clean) 230.8 172.6 34 14.9 149.7 Available Available --
Telephone Number 01952****** on Exchange CUCKOO OAK is served by Cabinet 8
Featured Products
Downstream Line Rate(Mbps)
Upstream Line Rate(Mbps)
Downstream Handback Threshold(Mbps)
WBC FTTC Availability Date
WBC SOGEA Availability Date
Left in Jumper
High Low High Low
VDSL Range A (Clean) 80 74 20 19 67 Available Available --
VDSL Range B (Impacted) 80 73.4 20 19 67 Available Available --
G.fast Range A (Clean) 230.8 172.6 34 14.9 149.7 Available Available --
G.fast Range B (Impacted) 189.1 130.2 23 11.4 118.9 Available Available --
Featured Products
Downstream Line Rate(Mbps)
Upstream Line Rate(Mbps)
Downstream Range(Mbps)
WBC FTTP Availability Date
FTTP on Demand 330 30 -- Available -- --
ADSL Products
Downstream Line Rate(Mbps)
Upstream Line Rate(Mbps)
Downstream Range(Mbps)
ADSL Availability Date
WBC SOADSL Availability Date
Left in Jumper
WBC ADSL 2+ Up to 14.5 -- 11 to 18.5 Available Available --
WBC ADSL 2+ Annex M Up to 14.5 Up to 1 11 to 18.5 Available Available --
ADSL Max Up to 6.5 -- 5.5 to 8 Available Available --
WBC Fixed Rate 2 -- -- Available Available --
Fixed Rate 2 -- -- Available -- --
Observed Speeds
G.Fast
VDSL
Max Observed Downstream Speed (Mbps) 184 80
Max Upstream Observed Speed (Mbps) 28 20
Observed Date 2021-05-26 2021-05-23
Other Offerings
Availability Date
VDSL Multicast -- -- -- Available -- --
ADSL Multicast -- -- -- Available -- --
G.fast Multicast -- -- -- Available -- --
Premise environment
Status
Bridge Tap N
VRI N
NTEFaceplate N
Last Test Date 20-05-2021
Next door been asked me how did it goes I told them I only get 210 down and 28 up as they told me that odd as they getting nearly 290 down and 44 up. But I know one house on the btw checker got a very clean high and low 330/50 two next doors. Seem G.fast very strange indeed. All connected to the same Gfast pod.
The engineer did show me map of the layout cable from my house to the gfast pod as it seem not straight line, it was lots more than VDSL line length as I guess from my old Plusnet GEA test say Estimated Line Length In Metres 243.6 (I guess added another 50.0 make it 293.6 for the g.fast pod to the line socket)?
-
@Kitz just ran tracert just now from pc all much healthy ;D
Microsoft Windows [Version 10.0.19043.985]
(c) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
C:\WINDOWS\system32>tracert bbc.co.uk
Tracing route to bbc.co.uk [151.101.0.81]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms ARCHER_VR2600 [192.168.0.1]
2 12 ms 10 ms 11 ms 185.250.8.239
3 12 ms 12 ms 12 ms 185.250.8.238
4 13 ms 11 ms 11 ms thn.as51561.net [46.102.193.75]
5 12 ms 13 ms 12 ms be4482.ccr21.lon01.atlas.cogentco.com [149.6.184.181]
6 11 ms 11 ms 11 ms 149.6.2.38
7 11 ms 12 ms 11 ms 151.101.0.81
Trace complete.
C:\WINDOWS\system32>
-
All connected to the same Gfast pod.
You may as well stop checking the checkers too. But its hardly surprising its changed. Please do remember that these are best guesses.
I keep telling you that g.fast uses SRA so sync rates can change on the fly. It shouldn't really affect you though now you are on the lower product and have some spare SNRM. Unless there actually is a real problem I dont want to see the btw checker results again. Forget about them.
Next door been asked me
Max, I'm getting deja vu here. A while ago I spent a long time plotting out the neighbouring g.fast speeds in my daughters street and showing your the results. With g.fast you may well all be on the same cab, but its line distance from the cab that matters... and it matters more than with VDSL. I must have reminded you of this at least half a dozen times when I've tried and tried time and time again to tell you that even some houses nearer to the cab may have a longer line length than another house further away due to the DP & JB locations. Some houses end up 'doubling back' - it cant be helped. It makes not much difference with adsl/vdsl... but with g.fast it can make quite a bit of difference when using the g.fast higher frequencies. You may be further away from the joint box than he is.. or your line length to the JB may be longer than his. You can't possibly know.
It sounds like the engineer has also tried to explain this to you by showing you the plans.
kitz is likely to rather cross if she has to tell you again being on the same cab doesn't matter and it depends on your line length from the underground joint box and if yours doubles back (about 50% of lines do double-back to the DP or JB to some extent or other).
---
Tracert is looking really Lovely. No sign of latency problems there. It doesnt matter if some of the in-between figures are a bit higher. As long as the end figure is 11/12ms then all is good :)
-
that DLM may make some changes with G.inp depth and 'x'dB. Any changes will happen after midnight so dont be worried if you have the odd disconnect at around this time.
btw best expand on thatstatement in order to avoid any confusion with the old & outdated stabilisation period.
Whilst there is no longer a 10 day settling in 'stabilisation' period... More recent changes to the DLM in respect to g.inp and 'x'dB do mean that the DLM may make adjustment to these on a new line or after a reset until the DLM has found the most suitable rate for your line.
-
Kitz
One more question to ask, the latest BQM are much better and lots healthy than yesterday. I pretty upset that Zyxel wireless has awful issues and don't understand why the wifi drop to below 50 in 5GHz. When changed to Openreach Modem and TP Link the wifi went back to steady 149/27 Very odd.
I think the firmware has messed up Zyxel unstable.
Anyway. I going to stayed with OR Modem and TP Link router that keep my G fast stable plus the wifi stable.
I have inform my daughter DO NOT TURN OFF OR REBOOT OPENREACH MODEM. leave it alone. Just use TP Link Router to reboot if she got wifi issues in future when I am not at home.
-
Updated:
The gfast has lost the carrier (see BQM) as the downstream remain the same but upstream slightly drop - probably by DLM.
Connection Time Download/Upload (Mbps)
2021-05-27 12:21:57 159.6/27.9
2021-05-26 00:15:22 159.6/28.5
-
As mentioned in several replies just after midnight almost certainly DLM. With such a great connection not sure that you need to check BQM all the time.
-
Max, please turn the BQM monitor off. You only need to look at stats and run download tests if you think there is a problem, otherwise just ignore it and enjoy using the internet.
:)
-
As mentioned in several replies just after midnight almost certainly DLM. With such a great connection not sure that you need to check BQM all the time.
I only check BQM because I thought there is no internet as it seem loss of resync just after 12pm. I only checked that when internet are down.
-
Max, please turn the BQM monitor off. You only need to look at stats and run download tests if you think there is a problem, otherwise just ignore it any enjoy using the internet.
:)
I can't look at Gfast modem stats. (It's locked) but good job my ISP control panel show real live Sync Rate on it. I can see the upstream drop a little bit but downstream remain the same.
-
I can't look at Gfast modem stats. (It's locked) but good job my ISP control panel show real live Sync Rate on it. I can see the upstream drop a little bit but downstream remain the same.
Max, what I am trying to say is please stop checking all of these things. You only need to look if something is not working.
:)
-
That's really good of ISP will text me (SMS) if there any loss of broadband with talktalk business (Maintenance work) and the control panel very useful like it. Plusnet is very hidden one (only asking them to check GEA Test) my isp told me that they are plan to add it own GEA Test for Gfast on the control panel in the near future to check it once a week for the customer without asking them to run it for them.
-
That's really good of ISP will text me (SMS) if there any loss of broadband with talktalk business (Maintenance work) and the control panel very useful like it.
That seems to be rather like what A&A will do for their customers.
-
That seems to be rather like what A&A will do for their customers.
Yes that's good :) all day yesterday and today no issues. Just one dropping connection by DLM possible early this afternoon.
-
my isp told me that they are plan to add it own GEA Test for Gfast on the control panel in the near future to check it once a week for the customer without asking them to run it for them.
I had 1 GEA test in about 8-9 years with VDSL2.
I had a line fault at the time.
I can't see any reason why you would need to run a GEA test once a week!
They are only required if you suspect a line fault.
-
Yes it only work when the line is fault (he told me you can't use GEA Test unless a fault on the line first) but he did ran the one off GEA Test as voice line is all passed and G.Fast passed with max rate of 210/29 with line length 290m (Plusnet VDSL is 243m)
-
We are happy with Gfast 160/30. All stable now for two days. Don't need to check BTw checker, TTB speed test, BTw speed test, BQM, GEA Test. Only need it when there is no broadband or fault on the line.
Going to rest my mind now! :)
-
That’s a really good plan :P
-
We had a power cut early on - will that upset Gfast dlm later?
-
No.
-
:) That's good. I did noticed the ping drop to much lower now! ;D ;D
Microsoft Windows [Version 10.0.19043.1023]
(c) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
C:\WINDOWS\system32>tracert bbc.co.uk
Tracing route to bbc.co.uk [151.101.128.81]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms ARCHER_VR2600 [192.168.0.1]
2 8 ms 6 ms 7 ms 185.250.8.239
3 7 ms 7 ms 7 ms 185.250.8.238
4 9 ms 8 ms 8 ms thn.as51561.net [46.102.193.75]
5 8 ms 9 ms 8 ms be4482.ccr21.lon01.atlas.cogentco.com [149.6.184.181]
6 9 ms 9 ms 9 ms 149.6.2.38
7 8 ms 9 ms 8 ms 151.101.0.81
Trace complete.
C:\WINDOWS\system32>
-
Nearly as low as mine! Seems fine.
-
Much better than Plusnet ISP. My daughter say no issues with any buffering on her xbox that's good news.
-
The only service I ever see buffering on is YouTube and its not exactly buffering, its actually a failure to connect to the server to pull the next piece of the stream.
I have however had Netflix dropping down quality dramatically recently over Plusnet. It was rather unexpected seeing as I was watching Lucifer that I would expect to be on a cache server at the ISP with it being new episodes. I guess its possible the cache got overloaded?
-
I've never seen any buffering issues with Netflix nor other streaming service whilst on Plusnet.
Whilst I havent been doing as much streaming over the past couple of months, prior to that (last year and over the winter), aside from when I was in hospital I was literally streaming 24/7.
-
I think it down to her old samsung 32" TV (8 years old) cos I have no issues with my new 65" Ultra UHD 4K LG tv in the living room two years ago with all streaming inc bbci player UHD 4K, netflix UHD 4K and youtube UHD 4K. She probably need new TV
-
I have reflash firmware again on Zyxel Gfast Router as the wireless issues has been fixed now. All ok on 5GHz getting 150/28 in all household devices ;D
So I am glad to have one router from the wall socket.
Here is latest stats from Zyzel:
Stats recorded 30 May 2021 11:45:59
DSLAM type / SW version: BDCM:0xc190 (193.144) / v0xc190
Modem/router firmware: AnnexA version - A2pvfbH045o.d27j
DSL mode: G
Status: Showtime
Uptime: 16 hours 27 min 23 sec
Resyncs: 0 (since 30 May 2021 11:25:07)
Downstream Upstream
Line attenuation (dB): 38.0 0.0
Signal attenuation (dB): 38.0 0.0
Connection speed (kbps): 160000 29477
SNR margin (dB): 4.1 3.1
Power (dBm): 0.0 4.0
Interleave depth:
INP: 550.00 540.00
G.INP: Not enabled Not enabled
Vectoring status: Unknown
xdslctl info --stats
xdslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason: 0
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 29477 Kbps, Downstream rate = 209973 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 29477 Kbps, Downstream rate = 160000 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: G.fast Annex A
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 4.1 3.1
Attn(dB): 38.0 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 0.0 4.0
Bearer 0
INP: 550.00 540.00
INPRein: 0.00 0.00
delay: 0 0
PER: 0.00 241.24
OR: 378.27 140.00
AgR: 16876.78 15526.97
Since Link time = 16 hours 27 min 23 sec
FEC: 109165 349676
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 0
FastRetr: 0
FailedRetr: 0
FailedFastRetr: 0
NTR: mipsCntAtNtr=0 ncoCntAtNtr=0
ZySH>
-
I'm not interested in the stats max.
You know that everything is working and you are getting the speeds you should. They don't matter any more.
We know you are getting the 160/30 that you paid for... and that the line cant get the 330... so you are on the correct product.
---
PS..
You added even more stats again even whilst I was typing this reply. Stop! It doesn't matter and it makes no difference.
Go enjoy your connection, use it what its meant for and leave the stats alone.
-
We know you are getting the 160/90 that you paid for...
160/90 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D I wish 90 upload haha
-
I saw the typo as soon as I hit send and immediately edited within about 5 secs.
You must have been quick to see that. - See your connection is so fast that you saw it before I'd immediately fixed it :D :D
-
and that the line cant get the 330... so you are on the correct product.
:thumbs:
Yes I aware of this. Only 209 max line rate no point of going 330/50 because the upload will stayed at 29. No difference. I only do one off stats as I am glad the wifi issues has resolved now thanks to re0 and Zyxel support.
-
Updated:
I have changed DSL cable from 2m to 0.5m to be much closer to the Gfast socket from Zyxel - wow - massive different! :) The upload has increase!
Line max rate now much improvement 225/31
============================================================================
xDSL Training Status: Showtime
Mode: G.fast Annex A
Traffic Type: PTM Mode
Link Uptime: 0 day: 0 hour: 23 minutes
============================================================================
xDSL Port Details Upstream Downstream
Line Rate: 30.153 Mbps 160.205 Mbps
Actual Net Data Rate: 30.005 Mbps 160.005 Mbps
Trellis Coding: ON ON
SNR Margin: 3.1 dB 9.1 dB
Actual Delay: 0 ms 0 ms
Transmit Power: 4.0 dBm 0.0 dBm
Receive Power: 4.7 dBm 3.0 dBm
Actual INP: 540.0 symbols 550.0 symbols
Attainable Net Data Rate: 31.668 Mbps 225.960 Mbps
============================================================================
That's it for now. Will leave it alone for next 12 months happy with full stats 160/30 now :) ;)
Getting throughput speed of 152/30
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
I doubt very much the cable made that change Your previous sync posted was using 4dB SNRm on upstream and its now back down to 3dB. This would suggest that conditions had improved since your previous sync which was probably 3dB at the time it obtained sync.
Time of day, weather and the temperature outside can easily make a 1dB difference.
-
I thought openreach gfast all product on 160/30 and 330/50 should have both on 3dB SNR by default?
Downstream big jump to 9dB.
-
I doubt very much the cable made that change Your previous sync posted was using 4dB SNRm on upstream and its now back down to 3dB. This would suggest that conditions had improved since your previous sync which was probably 3dB at the time it obtained sync.
Time of day, weather and the temperature outside can easily make a 1dB difference.
You got wrong way round it that 4dB SNRm was on downstream (now at 9.1dB) and 3.1dB SNRm was on upstream (now on 3.1dB - unchanged)
-
You got wrong way round it that 4dB SNRm was on downstream (now at 9.1dB) and 3.1dB SNRm was on upstream (now on 3.1dB - unchanged)
You're right, got confused as you posted from a different stats screen.
-
No worry at all. The main things happy with max 160/30 that's all matter! ;)
-
Anything upstream can quite often dependant upon local wiring conditions* However Im surprised that 1.5m nearer to the socket made that much difference, unless the cable was better quality.
*Master Socket, internal wiring or even telephony near to demarcation point
--------
However, when comparing the 2 stats, I notice that the upstream receive power has increased from 1dB to 4.7dB. That is more likely to have something to do with the increased upstream rate. Not sure about the downstream.
So in part probably DSM (Dynamic Spectral Management) adjusting the power levels on your line.
There is absolutely _nothing_ you can do about DSM as its calculated by the DSLAM at the time of sync and tries to keep power levels within certain parameters depending upon local conditions and also such things as E-side distance and D-side distance. It involves some fairly complicated algorithms and various allowed parameters of spectral masks.. It's not unusual that if it decides to give you more upstream power then downstream goes down as a result - or vice versa, where people get a higher downstream sync, but their upstream sync goes down.
Please do not get hung up with DSM as spectral management is outside the scope of you being able to do anything much about and it may even change back to the previous power level. It's more complicated than DLM and at times mystifying why a spectral mask may change. Absolutely none of us here know which spectral masks as used on our own lines other than we can see what difference it makes to the shape of our upstream bit-loading in some of the lower tones. This kinda stuff is going to be way over the head of most people, so just count yourself lucky that something has decided to push up your upstream power a tad.
Now leave the goddamn stats alone :D
----------------------
OLD STATS
============================================================================
xDSL Training Status: Showtime
Mode: G.fast Annex A
Traffic Type: PTM Mode
Link Uptime: 0 day: 0 hour: 36 minutes
============================================================================
xDSL Port Details Upstream Downstream
Line Rate: 28.175 Mbps 160.251 Mbps
Actual Net Data Rate: 28.037 Mbps 159.891 Mbps
Trellis Coding: ON ON
SNR Margin: 3.2 dB 4.4 dB
Actual Delay: 0 ms 0 ms
Transmit Power: 4.0 dBm 0.0 dBm
Receive Power: 1.0 dBm 3.0 dBm
Actual INP: 540.0 symbols 550.0 symbols
Attainable Net Data Rate: 28.028 Mbps 186.263 Mbps
============================================================================
NEW STATS
===========================================================================
xDSL Training Status: Showtime
Mode: G.fast Annex A
Traffic Type: PTM Mode
Link Uptime: 0 day: 0 hour: 23 minutes
============================================================================
xDSL Port Details Upstream Downstream
Line Rate: 30.153 Mbps 160.205 Mbps
Actual Net Data Rate: 30.005 Mbps 160.005 Mbps
Trellis Coding: ON ON
SNR Margin: 3.1 dB 9.1 dB
Actual Delay: 0 ms 0 ms
Transmit Power: 4.0 dBm 0.0 dBm
Receive Power: 4.7 dBm 3.0 dBm
Actual INP: 540.0 symbols 550.0 symbols
Attainable Net Data Rate: 31.668 Mbps 225.960 Mbps
============================================================================
-
Strange the router didn't resync but noticed a bit change by DLM in a quieter manner way:
New Stats:
============================================================================
xDSL Training Status: Showtime
Mode: G.fast Annex A
Traffic Type: PTM Mode
Link Uptime: 0 day: 12 hours: 26 minutes
============================================================================
xDSL Port Details Upstream Downstream
Line Rate: 29.552 Mbps 160.196 Mbps
Actual Net Data Rate: 29.352 Mbps 159.815 Mbps
Trellis Coding: ON ON
SNR Margin: 2.8 dB 9.1 dB
Actual Delay: 0 ms 0 ms
Transmit Power: 4.0 dBm 0.0 dBm
Receive Power: 4.7 dBm 3.0 dBm
Actual INP: 538.0 symbols 549.0 symbols
Attainable Net Data Rate: 29.793 Mbps 221.751 Mbps
============================================================================
Stats recorded 31 May 2021 12:54:15
DSLAM type / SW version: BDCM:0xc190 (193.144) / v0xc190
Modem/router firmware: AnnexA version - A2pvfbH045o.d27j
DSL mode: G
Status: Showtime
Uptime: 12 hours 20 min 34 sec
Resyncs: 0 (since 31 May 2021 12:34:13)
Downstream Upstream
Line attenuation (dB): 38.6 0.0
Signal attenuation (dB): 38.6 0.0
Connection speed (kbps): 159815 29412
SNR margin (dB): 9.1 3.0
Power (dBm): 0.0 4.0
Interleave depth:
INP: 549.00 538.00
G.INP: Not enabled Not enabled
Vectoring status: Unknown
RSCorr/RS (%): 0.0002 0.0353
RSUnCorr/RS (%): 0.0000 0.0000
ES/hour: 0 0
xdslctl info --pbParams
xdslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason: 1
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 30013 Kbps, Downstream rate = 222625 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 29412 Kbps, Downstream rate = 159815 Kbps
Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (348,1256) Gfactor=4
DS: (342,1204) Gfactor=4
Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan
US: (348,1256) Gfactor=4
DS: (342,1132) Gfactor=4
VDSL Port Details Upstream Downstream
Attainable Net Data Rate: 30013 kbps 222625 kbps
Actual Aggregate Tx Power: 4.0 dBm 0.0 dBm
====================================================================================
VDSL Band Status U0 U1 U2 U3 U4 D1 D2 D3
Line Attenuation(dB): N/A 0.0 N/A N/A N/A 38.6 N/A N/A
Signal Attenuation(dB): N/A 0.0 N/A N/A N/A 38.6 N/A N/A
SNR Margin(dB): N/A 0.0 N/A N/A N/A 0.0 N/A N/A
TX Power(dBm): N/A 0.0 N/A N/A N/A 0.0 N/A N/A
kl0(dBx100): N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
ZySH>
xdslctl info --stats
xdslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason: 1
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 29899 Kbps, Downstream rate = 222625 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 29412 Kbps, Downstream rate = 159815 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: G.fast Annex A
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 9.1 2.9
Attn(dB): 38.6 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 0.0 4.0
G.fast framing
Bearer 0
R: 12 8
N: 93 204
Q: 15 4
L: 4848 4208
Lrmc: 0 0
Ldoi: 0 4312
Rrmc: 93 194
Drmc: 14 3
Mf: 36 36
M(ds/us): 29 6
MNDSNOI: 2 2
ackWindowShift: 0 0
Ldr: 0 0
etru: 0 0
ETRminEoc: 0 0
Counters
Bearer 0
OHF: 7410665 86334
OHFErr: 0 0
RS: 2508451453 458547073
RSCorr: 4508 161942
RSUnCorr: 0 0
Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx: 745 2406
rtx_c: 720 0
rtx_uc: 0 0
G.fast Counters
minEFTR: 160770 30409
errFreeBits: 109093315 20967334
NOI
BSW: 98/98 32122/32122
SRA: 0/0 120/120
FRA: 0/0 0/0
RPA: 0/0 0/0
TIGA: 111/111 0/0
DOI
BSW: 0/0 0/0
SRA: 0/0 0/0
FRA: 0/0 0/0
RPA: 0/0 0/0
TIGA: 0/0 0/0
eocBytes: 29070953 110186279
eocPkts: 1119705 295750
eocMsgs: 1119705 295750
ANDEFTRmin: 160813 30411
ANDEFTRmax: 160813 30412
ANDEFTRsum: 2733707480 20970368
ANDEFTRDS: 514423 44464
LANDEFTRRS: 0 0
Bearer 0
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 9918647 5268995
Data Cells: 8798971 4973254
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0
LORS: 0 0
LOSS: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 190 190
AS: 44464
Bearer 0
INP: 549.00 538.00
INPRein: 0.00 0.00
delay: 0 0
PER: 0.00 1377.21
OR: 381.00 200.38
AgR: 16824.08 16108.99
Total time = 12 hours 24 min 14 sec
FEC: 4508 161942
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 190 190
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 0
FastRetr: 1
FailedRetr: 1
FailedFastRetr: 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 9 min 14 sec
FEC: 33 234
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 0
FastRetr: 0
FailedRetr: 0
FailedFastRetr: 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC: 115 450
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: N/A
HostInitRetr: N/A
FastRetr: N/A
FailedRetr: N/A
FailedFastRetr: N/A
Latest 1 day time = 12 hours 24 min 14 sec
FEC: 4508 161942
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 190 190
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 0
FastRetr: 1
FailedRetr: 1
FailedFastRetr: 0
Previous 1 day time = 0 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 0
FastRetr: 0
FailedRetr: 0
FailedFastRetr: 0
Since Link time = 12 hours 21 min 3 sec
FEC: 4508 161942
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 0
FastRetr: 0
FailedRetr: 0
FailedFastRetr: 0
NTR: mipsCntAtNtr=0 ncoCntAtNtr=0
ZySH>
BTw checker has updated as well as the estimated was about spot on right
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Kitz
I did asked the openreach engineer to double check at the junction box in the bin cupboard where the copper phone line coming into the property to the master socket as the engineer did checked and say it old BT52A and it still used for any VDSL2 and GFAST as he leave it alone and also saying there is spare 3m telephone cable behind but he will not cut it shortern say it will not make any different to GFAST at 160/30. But surely cut half from 3m to 1.5m will make GFAST lots higher max speed closer to 330/50. But, I can't touch it as I will be in big serious trouble by Openreach if they found out I did cut it half myself.
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>> But surely cut half from 3m to 1.5m will make GFAST lots higher max speed closer to 330/50. <<
Not necessarily. As above 1.5m shouldnt make that much difference. If the engineer says it wouldn't make any difference then forget about it. Why are you worrying anyhow about the higher speed product. If it were 10m then things may be different.
>> BTw checker has updated as well as the estimated was about spot on right <<
Why are you still checking this even though you have the service?
As I've said before, now that you do have service... then the estimate is based around what it is seeing to the connected line. BEFORE a line is connected it is an estimate of what the sytem thinks you may get depending on things such as line length and what other connections in the area may be getting. AFTER you are connected then it should more or less mirror what the line is connecting at and the lowest sync rate.
Honestly Max there is absolutely no point keep looking at this each day. :no:
>> Strange the router didn't resync but noticed a bit change by DLM in a quieter manner way <<
So you are watching stats? :(
All I will answer here is repeat what you should already know and what I've previously mentioned numerous times in the past and at least once in this thread is that g.fast uses SRA (Seamless Rate Adaption). This means the speed at which the line connects at can change depending on the amount of noise (ie the SNRm). So if the SNRM goes below a certain point, the line rate is adjusted without having to perform a full resync.
Max, I'm beginning to get concerned that despite what you say, you are watching the stats. I'm absolutely certain that I've said in the past, one of my concerns about you getting g.fast is the fact the connection rate changes on the fly without having to resync and you could end up driving yourself insane worrying about tiny changes that really do not matter. I consoled myself that at least with your getting the 160 version, SRA wasn't going to affect you like it would if you went for 330. But now you seem to be concentrating on the upstream variances..... all of which are perfectly normal.
I don't mind trying to help you if your have an actual problem... nor trying to explain to you how things work. I do however get very frustrated when we start going over the same things.
-
Kitz
Thanks for explaining everything. I am learning how gfast are work with SRA very different from FTTC. Anyway this is my last stats now.
As I knew my line can do 224/30 but lucky as you are 100% right that's I would stay on 160/30 for next 12 months.
I been enjoyed the garden today just cut the front garden grass but I more likely go to Wales with my daughter for few days as I love North Wales. Heard the weather are good all this week.
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Kitz
Thanks for explaining everything. I am learning how gfast are work with SRA very different from FTTC. Anyway this is my last stats now.
As I knew my line can do 224/30 but lucky as you are 100% right that's I would stay on 160/30 for next 12 months.
I been enjoyed the garden today just cut the front garden grass but I more likely go to Wales with my daughter for few days as I love North Wales. Heard the weather are good all this week.
North Wales? Lovely place - Snowdonia is beautiful.
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North Wales? Lovely place - Snowdonia is beautiful.
I agree as last time went to Newborough Forest in Wales. Love it there. https://www.dioni.co.uk/explore-anglesey-series-newborough/ (went there)
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Updated: G.fast proved to be stable more. Been steady and stable for 9 days. Today did check one off stats really impressed with G.fast lucky as I think I am within 280-300m from the cabinet. More stable and good job G.fast got vectoring as I will remain 160/30 for next 12 months. :)
xdslctl info --stats
xdslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason: 1
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 31228 Kbps, Downstream rate = 239271 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 29911 Kbps, Downstream rate = 159965 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: G.fast Annex A
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 12.1 3.0
Attn(dB): 38.6 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 0.0 4.0
Stats recorded 03 Jun 2021 17:44:53
DSLAM type / SW version: BDCM:0xc190 (193.144) / v0xc190
Modem/router firmware: AnnexA version - A2pvfbH045o.d27j
DSL mode: G
Status: Showtime
Uptime: 3 days 17 hours 11 min 4 sec
Resyncs: 0 (since 03 Jun 2021 07:20:21)
Downstream Upstream
Line attenuation (dB): 38.6 0.0
Signal attenuation (dB): 38.6 0.0
Connection speed (kbps): 159965 29911
SNR margin (dB): 12.1 3.0
Power (dBm): 0.0 4.0
Interleave depth:
INP: 549.00 540.00
G.INP: Not enabled Not enabled
Vectoring status: Unknown
RSCorr/RS (%): 0.0022 0.0027
RSUnCorr/RS (%): 0.0000 0.0000
ES/hour: 0 0
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What is the purpose of the constant checking and publishing these stats. I seems it works fine so why constantly check ?
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What is the purpose of the constant checking and publishing these stats. I seems it works fine so why constantly check ?
Because Openreach DLM keeps adjusting it.
If @adslmax could encapsulate them using the # code function that would make them easier to read, like so:
xdslctl info --stats
xdslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason: 1
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 31228 Kbps, Downstream rate = 239271 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 29911 Kbps, Downstream rate = 159965 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: G.fast Annex A
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 12.1 3.0
Attn(dB): 38.6 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 0.0 4.0
Stats recorded 03 Jun 2021 17:44:53
DSLAM type / SW version: BDCM:0xc190 (193.144) / v0xc190
Modem/router firmware: AnnexA version - A2pvfbH045o.d27j
DSL mode: G
Status: Showtime
Uptime: 3 days 17 hours 11 min 4 sec
Resyncs: 0 (since 03 Jun 2021 07:20:21)
Downstream Upstream
Line attenuation (dB): 38.6 0.0
Signal attenuation (dB): 38.6 0.0
Connection speed (kbps): 159965 29911
SNR margin (dB): 12.1 3.0
Power (dBm): 0.0 4.0
Interleave depth:
INP: 549.00 540.00
G.INP: Not enabled Not enabled
Vectoring status: Unknown
RSCorr/RS (%): 0.0022 0.0027
RSUnCorr/RS (%): 0.0000 0.0000
ES/hour: 0 0
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Because Openreach DLM keeps adjusting it.
It's not DLM, it's SRA doing its job, working perfectly normally and will continue to do so for however long he has this connection. Checking and posting stats as the parameters get adjusted slightly from day to day/from hour to hour due to environmental variables is totally unnecessary as this is the connection functioning as designed.
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SRA made changed can see line max rate has dropped 239/31 to 198/29
xdslctl info --stats
xdslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason: 1
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 29239 Kbps, Downstream rate = 198687 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 28287 Kbps, Downstream rate = 159405 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: G.fast Annex A
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 7.8 2.9
Attn(dB): 38.6 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 0.0 4.0
Stats recorded 04 Jun 2021 12:38:52
DSLAM type / SW version: BDCM:0xc190 (193.144) / v0xc190
Modem/router firmware: AnnexA version - A2pvfbH045o.d27j
DSL mode: G
Status: Showtime
Uptime: 4 days 12 hours 5 min 1 sec
Resyncs: 0 (since 04 Jun 2021 12:30:30)
Downstream Upstream
Line attenuation (dB): 38.6 0.0
Signal attenuation (dB): 38.6 0.0
Connection speed (kbps): 159405 28287
SNR margin (dB): 7.8 2.9
Power (dBm): 0.0 4.0
Interleave depth:
INP: 550.00 540.00
G.INP: Not enabled Not enabled
Vectoring status: Unknown
RSCorr/RS (%): 0.0028 1.1507
RSUnCorr/RS (%): 0.0000 0.0000
ES/hour: 0 0
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Max, please, for the sake of your own health, do stop obsessing about the stats. You must understand by now that SRA will make small changes frequently throughout its life. There's no point in reporting every little change, because the information has no value to you or anybody else.
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Ok no problem :thumbs:
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Updated:
Got my SMS text message from Openreach engineer asked me how I get on with G.fast as the service is now ten days, any problem please let us know. (directly sms from the same mobile number when the engineer attend the property on 25th May to install G.fast.
I have reply to sms: Hi, thanks for everything. No issues on G.fast. Nice and stable still on max speed 159/29. Thank You Mr *********
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It's a lovely day, go and enjoy the weather may I suggest? :)
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It's a lovely day, go and enjoy the weather may I suggest? :)
I been to Telford Town Park few days ago. And a lovely full english breakfast! Love the Duck in the town. ;D I off to Wales next week with my daughter as schoool holiday will be back to school next Monday, I can't stand too many children in the town park.
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I think it is now appropriate to "call time" on this topic as --
- The migration was successful.
- The G.Fast connection is stable.
- Max now understands the effects of SRA.