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Author Topic: Changed from 40/10 to 80/20  (Read 1382 times)

j0hn

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Re: Changed from 40/10 to 80/20
« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2019, 06:30:32 PM »

It's possible there are crosstalkers connected to your cabinet that haven't reconnected yet from the DSLAM being offline.

Also possible that the work done on the DSLAM has left you a little better off.

The attainable varies continuously but I find if I sync a little higher than usual then the attainable will increase a little higher than what it was before my resync.

There's also the fact you're Interleaved to consider. The attainable on most modems is known to be exaggerated/inaccurate when INP/Interleaving is on the line.
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Plusnet FTTC 80/20 -  ECI now Huawei cab
retx low @ 3dB target SNRM
Zyxel VMG1312-B10A bridged with 1508 MTU + Asus RT-AC68U running Asuswrt-Merlin

mw2870

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Re: Changed from 40/10 to 80/20
« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2019, 08:05:54 PM »

Your prediction was entirely correct J0hn!
After a resync everything is back to where it was before the DSLAM reset:

Code: [Select]
Max:    Upstream rate = 15892 Kbps, Downstream rate = 52948 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 15892 Kbps, Downstream rate = 44791 Kbps
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        6.3             5.9
Attn(dB):        13.9            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        14.1            6.7

Time to leave it alone and wait for G.INP to come back on!
« Last Edit: July 03, 2019, 08:29:07 PM by mw2870 »
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kitz

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Re: Changed from 40/10 to 80/20
« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2019, 08:25:50 PM »

Quote
Possibly needs Kitz to reply to this one but I thought the boundaries for ES / day are ES=2880 / 1440 / 720  and Resyncs=20 / 10 / 5 so not sure why the calculator is saying it is amber?

Those are the MTBE parameters for Red.   MTBE parameters for Green are 288/144/72.
As mentioned by J0hn, anything in between is Amber and DLM will take no action either way.

Quote
The ES figures aren't used at all with G.INP
Openreach wouldn't disclose what error figures they use for G.INP, but when I specifically asked if LEFTRS was used.  Interestingly that question was completely glossed over ie not confirmed or denied either way, which based on other conversations I'd had and how they flowed, could be taken to mean that I was close to the mark.


@mw2870.
   
The DLM treats upstream and downstream are treated independently for MTBE,  so any upstream errors should not stop the DLM from adjusting your downstream rate.

From your stats:

Code: [Select]
Max:    Upstream rate = 15892 Kbps, Downstream rate = 52948 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 15892 Kbps, Downstream rate = 44791 Kbps

As also mentioned by J0hn the max attainable rate is inflated due to INP (Interleave & RS encoding).  As a very rough guide, an indication of your max rate without INP is approx halfway between those 2 figures.
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mw2870

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Re: Changed from 40/10 to 80/20
« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2019, 08:32:24 PM »

As also mentioned by J0hn the max attainable rate is inflated due to INP (Interleave & RS encoding).  As a very rough guide, an indication of your max rate without INP is approx halfway between those 2 figures.

Rough guide works for me.
I can therefore conclude that whatever DLM does or does not decide to do I am unlikely to get to the Downstream Handback threshold of 56.4.
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j0hn

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Re: Changed from 40/10 to 80/20
« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2019, 08:52:58 PM »

Quote from: j0hn
The ES figures aren't used at all with G.INP
Quote from: kitz
Openreach wouldn't disclose what error figures they use for G.INP, but when I specifically asked if LEFTRS was used.  Interestingly that question was completely glossed over ie not confirmed or denied either way, which based on other conversations I'd had and how they flowed, could be taken to mean that I was close to the mark.

I should clarify, I meant the specific MTBE figures list on your DLM page.
They still seem relevant/correct for fastpath/Interleaving.

I would expect with G.INP that any MTBE (if used) will be lower when G.INP is active, as it does such a good job reducing errors on the line.
Most days I have 0 or 1 ES with G.INP on the line (ReTx Low) and that's with a 3dB SNRM target.

The DLM would be a bit pointless if it only intervened (trying retx high/increasing SNRM) when the line hit 2880 ES.
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Plusnet FTTC 80/20 -  ECI now Huawei cab
retx low @ 3dB target SNRM
Zyxel VMG1312-B10A bridged with 1508 MTU + Asus RT-AC68U running Asuswrt-Merlin

tubaman

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Re: Changed from 40/10 to 80/20
« Reply #20 on: July 04, 2019, 08:02:12 AM »

I should clarify, I meant the specific MTBE figures list on your DLM page.
They still seem relevant/correct for fastpath/Interleaving.

I would expect with G.INP that any MTBE (if used) will be lower when G.INP is active, as it does such a good job reducing errors on the line.
Most days I have 0 or 1 ES with G.INP on the line (ReTx Low) and that's with a 3dB SNRM target.

The DLM would be a bit pointless if it only intervened (trying retx high/increasing SNRM) when the line hit 2880 ES.

This is of interest for me, as although G.INP does a great job on my line I still get a considerable number of ES when it runs at 3dB - around 800-1000 per day.  I've just had about 50 days of continuous sync at these levels and DLM has now decided that 4dB might be better for me.
I've been here before, and fully expect that I'll run at 4dB for a while before DLM decides to try 3dB again!
Clearly at 3dB my line is on the border of what is acceptable in G.INP error terms.
 :)
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kitz

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Re: Changed from 40/10 to 80/20
« Reply #21 on: July 04, 2019, 10:32:35 AM »

Quote
The DLM would be a bit pointless if it only intervened (trying retx high/increasing SNRM) when the line hit 2880 ES.

Agreed.   We know DLM uses 'something' because it can apply interleaving to a line which has G.INP and can also increase this if need be.   The usual ES parameters would be useless to record error performance when a line is using retransmission.

The options are either a reduced amount of Err Seconds or monitoring LEFTR & SEFTR  which are the retransmission equivalent of the more familiar traditional ES & SES.
 
LEFTR is a counter of the number of seconds whereby data originating at the DTU has been detected to contain a defect such as a rtx_uc (which is the re-tx version of a CRC) and why I'd asked.
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mw2870

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Re: Changed from 40/10 to 80/20
« Reply #22 on: July 04, 2019, 10:39:49 AM »

Patience is a virtue! G.INP was switched on up/down just before 9am this morning.
Thought that DLM acted earlier in the day that that...

Code: [Select]
Downstream Upstream
Line attenuation (dB):  13.9 0.0
Signal attenuation (dB): Not monitored
Connection speed (kbps): 52560 18099
SNR margin (dB):        6.1 5.8
Power (dBm):            14.1 6.9
Interleave depth:        8 4
INP:                    49.00 46.00
G.INP:                  Enabled Enabled
Vectoring status:        5 (VECT_UNCONFIGURED)

Synced at my current max:
Code: [Select]
Max:    Upstream rate = 18092 Kbps, Downstream rate = 52966 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 18099 Kbps, Downstream rate = 52560 Kbps

Not far off the Downstream Handback Threshold of 56.4
I guess DLM can now start to slowly reduce the target SNR if error counts are low. Might even make 56.4 after all!
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burakkucat

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Re: Changed from 40/10 to 80/20
« Reply #23 on: July 04, 2019, 11:33:31 PM »

Patience is a virtue! G.INP was switched on up/down just before 9am this morning.
Thought that DLM acted earlier in the day that that...

There is no set time for the DLM action. It can be at any time during the 24 hours of a day.
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