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Author Topic: Planning database  (Read 10621 times)

waltergmw

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Re: Planning database
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2013, 10:22:13 PM »

@ Puppy,

Re FTTC RFS dates, if you'd like to see a real pantomime just quickly scan from here downwards:-

http://www.ewhurst-broadband.org.uk/?p=2112&cpage=1#comment-656

I am no longer excited by a promise of new capacity being available but usually just wait for a report from the EU.

Kind regards,
Walter

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Black Sheep

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Re: Planning database
« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2013, 10:24:44 PM »

There are many and varied reasons as to why a job can not be carried out, mostly due to regs or quality standards. What may seem an easy or fickle task to the EU, may mean a disciplinary action to the engineer ??

I hear you but this was a stud wall and the EU even moved the (new) backplate position nearer the front wall so the engineer would have 100mm free on the pair. All the wallplugs in place, just needed the NTE moved. Engineer said he couldn't do it as he couldn't test it?

Another one simply said he couldn't do that - all he could do was fit a data extension kit.

So I have my doubts about how easy this would be to communicate to OR via a mainstream ISP. 13 years ago OR got £150 per install and moving master socket was standard due to the usb modem. Now, unless you're with a niche ISP I suspect its quite hard to get this done.

I can only quote what our remit entails. If the engineers on-site (MOD or otherwise) choose to flout this remit, then the issue is with the individuals and not the process I'm afraid.

OR have only been 'In play' for approx. 8yrs. Prior to that, and LLU, it was simply BT and the £120 charge applied for a full install was quite rare. Most installs were classed as 'In situ' and were done for free.
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guest

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Re: Planning database
« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2013, 11:54:44 AM »

OR have only been 'In play' for approx. 8yrs. Prior to that, and LLU, it was simply BT and the £120 charge applied for a full install was quite rare. Most installs were classed as 'In situ' and were done for free.

The install fee was £150 and EVERYONE had to pay it - you even had to pay it a second time if you wished to move to another ISP as migration didn't exist. That was 2001. I only remember as I got out of my contract with BT Openworld and got a complete refund of all fees so I didn't have to cough up another £150 when I moved to Nildram. Still had an engineer come out to remove the faceplate when I left Openworld and another one to fit exactly the same faceplate when I joined Nildram.

Guess I'll be doing it myself.
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Black Sheep

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Re: Planning database
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2013, 12:15:31 PM »

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I can state from personal experience that if the drop-wire existed at the EU's premises, we classed this as 'In-situ' and there was no 'install' charge. There was no LLU back then, and we were still BT and had the monopoly.
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Black Sheep

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Re: Planning database
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2013, 12:30:10 PM »

Just had a sudden recall of memory. I think the EU still paid a £50 connection fee, even if the work was 'in-situ'. 
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Black Sheep

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Re: Planning database
« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2013, 12:35:03 PM »

PPS .............. to return to your original gripe of FTTC coming 'too early' for you personally, I can tell you that as of tomorrow, 'VDSL Cab only' engineering tasks are to begin nationwide. In other words, self-install appears to be with us.
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ColinS

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Re: Planning database
« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2013, 12:49:43 PM »

PPS .............. to return to your original gripe of FTTC coming 'too early' for you personally, I can tell you that as of tomorrow, 'VDSL Cab only' engineering tasks are to begin nationwide. In other words, self-install appears to be with us.
Oh good, then that's what's happened here to mine then!  ;) :D
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guest

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Re: Planning database
« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2013, 01:00:23 PM »

Just had a sudden recall of memory. I think the EU still paid a £50 connection fee, even if the work was 'in-situ'.

It was £150 and that fee was set by BT Ignite. I still have the emails/letters from Openworld and Nildram - just checked the archive as you had me wondering :) It was £50/month for 256kbps back then as well....

Quote
PPS .............. to return to your original gripe of FTTC coming 'too early' for you personally, I can tell you that as of tomorrow, 'VDSL Cab only' engineering tasks are to begin nationwide. In other words, self-install appears to be with us.

In practical terms, how soon is that likely to filter down to us plebs?
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Black Sheep

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Re: Planning database
« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2013, 01:17:12 PM »

Obviously I can't comment on your experience from 2001, but what I can categorically say, is that when we closed an Installation Task, (before Openreach was formed), we had 3 sections to fill in regarding the wiring details.
The first was a box asking 'Is there evidence that service ahs previously existed ?'. We indicated that there was by way of inputting a '1', or that there wasn't, by way of a '0'.

The next 2 boxes covered Internal Wiring.

If the first box had a '1' in it, the EU got the installation for free as it was classed as 'In-situ'. I can't be any clearer than that I'm afraid. There may well have been sundries such as a 'Connection fee' to cover Frames work and admin, but I reiterate, the 'In-Situ' component of the installation was free.

Regarding your other matter, it begins at 'Pleb level' ( ;D) tomorrow. The tasks will be rolling out from then.  :)
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waltergmw

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Re: Planning database
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2013, 08:32:08 PM »

Gentlefolk,

1.  Has anybody seen any instructions on what types of modems are compatible with BT Wholesale's VDSL offerings to CPs and if so are these to be unlocked so the EU can determine if adequate services are provided ?

2.  Is a CP now entitled to request a DLM reset without an Openreach visit ?

Kind regards,
Walter

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Black Sheep

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Re: Planning database
« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2013, 08:38:56 PM »

Two very good questions, Walter. Alas, I can't answer them only to say that the 'brief' we got was that CP's were working on ways of combining modem and router, so that there was just the one item to plug in. I would guess that development stages of this mythical beast, ensure it is left 'open' to EU's prying eyes, as opposed to 'locked down' ?? Other than that, I have no idea at all !!

Regarding the FTTC 'Recalc' (reset), I shall certainly keep my eyes and ears open around this subject, Walter. If I find anything out, I shall give feedback anon.  :)
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ColinS

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Re: Planning database
« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2013, 09:07:30 PM »

Regarding the FTTC 'Recalc' (reset), I shall certainly keep my eyes and ears open around this subject, Walter. If I find anything out, I shall give feedback anon.  :)
:idea: Is it possible that the imminent arrival of the PCP-only connection was preceeded by some behind-the-scenes changes to the profile banding that (some) people believe has been happening only very recently?  :hmm:
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ColinS

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Re: Planning database
« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2013, 09:14:13 PM »

Gentlefolk,

1.  Has anybody seen any instructions on what types of modems are compatible with BT Wholesale's VDSL offerings to CPs and if so are these to be unlocked so the EU can determine if adequate services are provided ?

Perhaps http://www.sinet.bt.com/498v4p3.pdf ?
3. CPE REQUIREMENTS ... 20
3.1 SCOPE ... 20
3.2 REQUIREMENTS... 20
3.2.1 Physical Connection ... 20
3.2.2 VDSL2 Layer... 21
3.2.3 Ethernet Layer ... 24
3.2.4 WAN VLAN Layer ... 24
3.2.5 Ethernet OAM... 25
3.2.6 CPE VDSL2 Filter Requirements... 26
3.2.7 Supplementary Information... 28

[Edit] for example, a properly configured HG622 is a 'one-box' VDSL modem/router (there are many others), and with the current BTOR SSFP would be compliant with the Centralised filtering requirements of 3.2.6.1, and with a Z-350UK filter dongle would be compliant with the Distributed filtering requirements of 3.2.6.2.  Of course the usual concerns will arise wrt star-wired extensions presenting bridged taps. Note that section 3.2.6.3 of the SIN explicitly addresses the bell-wire issue. Otherwise, it would appear that sync reductions from the distributed filtering model are in line with the length of the extension wiring exposed.  :)
« Last Edit: May 22, 2013, 11:04:40 AM by ColinS »
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Black Sheep

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Re: Planning database
« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2013, 09:31:37 PM »

Regarding the FTTC 'Recalc' (reset), I shall certainly keep my eyes and ears open around this subject, Walter. If I find anything out, I shall give feedback anon.  :)
:idea: Is it possible that the imminent arrival of the PCP-only connection was preceeded by some behind-the-scenes changes to the profile banding that (some) people believe has been happening only very recently?  :hmm:

Unfortunately, my 'expertise' in FTTC banding is pretty much non-existant, Colin. In my own personal experience though, the 'bandings' have been there since I first started working on FTTC, which is a couple of years now at a guess ??

As engineers, they tend to be used whilst faulting a circuit. Lets say DLM has capped the EU's circuit to 10Meg DS. With our testers plugged in at this speed, errors will be practically zero. So, we request the NGA Helpdesk perform an 'Override' to assist with the faulting. The NGA Helpdesk will look at what the circuits capability has been in recent weeks via RRT, and apply the relevant banding, lets say 'Level 31' which is ...... 29-45Mbps.
Once faulting is completed, the engineer will ring the NGA Helpdesk and request that a 'Recalc' be carried out. This should then put the circuit n an 'Open Profile' of 128Kbps - 80Mbps.

The DLM acts on its 'sampling' every single night (well, early morning from what we were told). I suppose if it sees something it doesn't like, then it may apply a banding ?? I really don't know ??
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ColinS

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Re: Planning database
« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2013, 09:39:26 PM »

Thanks BS that's very helpful, as always. :drink:
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