Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => FTTC and FTTP Issues => Topic started by: guest on May 20, 2013, 10:01:45 AM
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The BT Wholesale checker has been showing FTTC arriving at my PCP March 2014.
Now it doesn't, however a small FTTC cabinet has appeared 30 metres or so from the PCP in the last week and they are quite clearly prepping for a cable pull from PCP as there's a large hole in the pavement. Sub-contractors from the electricity company were there over the weekend and completed whatever they were doing (signage is all taken down now).
The BT Superfast Fibre checker still says end of 2013.
So I'm assuming that the cabinet is likely to be commissioned this quarter - I can't see any other reason for it to drop off the planning database?
Does this seem logical?
I was rather hoping they'd stick to the original timetable :)
Edit - two Openreach vans there now, one of the large ones and one of the transit-sized ones. All the OR bods were on a teabreak when I walked past, might go have a word later.
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Ah question answered I think :
Works Start: 10 May
End: 22 May
Location : (PCP32) NGA RELATED WORKS REAR OF 24/28 HAYFIELD CLOSE ON PARK DRIVE
Description : Install 24m of 1 way poly duct in Footway,Provide 1 Cabinet and base (NGA cabinets)
Current status: Work in progress
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Heh, they're doing 11 PCPs around Glenfield/Groby in the same timescale, guess the exchange must be going live a lot sooner than planned.
Bugger it, I was rather hoping that this wouldn't happen until later in the year when we'd see what self-install/etc was like. Cabinet looks rather small (ECI 128 type) for the PCP, which has to have at least 400 pairs running from it, probably nearer 600.
Oh well, time to await developments....
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Ha ha ..... you're the only person I know, that's having a moan that FTTC is being commissioned a lot earlier than first predicted. ;) ;D ;D
BT .......... beggared if we do, beggared if we don't. :P
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Ha ha ..... you're the only person I know, that's having a moan that FTTC is being commissioned a lot earlier than first predicted. ;) ;D ;D
BT .......... beggared if we do, beggared if we don't. :P
Heh I know what you mean.
For me however I'm on Sky full LLU, which is absolutely fine as the OR people here are top-notch (especially frames, who is apparently "old school"), cables are all in (good) underground conduits - in short its a well-designed/installed/maintained 22 year old network. Edit - oh and we live on a hill so none of the UG stuff floods here - not even last year.
Hardly anyone around here has Sky BB (they're mainly Virgin) so things work at linespeed 24/7. My only minor gripe is that my line is 200m longer than it should be and given I get 20Mbps that's extremely trivial :P
I suspect that will all change soon, one way or another.
Not too keen on Sky routers, Sky network is great, so was rather hoping for some (unofficial - to Sky) options appearing once self-install gets sorted.
I'll probably just vacillate for a few months :P
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Oh and I suspect I'll end up moving the master socket myself so what seems to be the best/available VDSL masters - and source to purchase?
By "moving" I mean I'll remove the 15m of external wiring OR put in when I had ADSL in first (USB frog/slug/whatever).
He basically used 2 pair cable to run the master round the back of the house and then take the spare pair to feed what used to be the master - no idea whether he wired the ADSL v1.0 socket right or not as I've never looked, can't have done a bad job even if he got it the wrong side of the filter. External cable entry point (250mm above DPC) is where he crimped the cable, so provided he didn't cut the cable too short I shouldn't have any problems - I'll be taking a look at that conduit anyway as the drive is getting redone.
Naughty I know and I'd rather get one of the local OR boys to do it but how the hell do you do that other than having a quiet word/cash in hand?
Sky won't understand/be capable of dealing with it, BT Retail (according to next-door) can't move a master socket even though they did it 8 years ago and these people have been with BT Retail for that time. Lunacy on wheels.
Problem seems to me (from a very limited viewpoint) is that OR can't guarantee the "engineer" will be qualified to move a master socket. Data extension kit - yeah no problems, but I'm looking to remove wiring, not add to it.
Best make sure the lads doing the drive don't bugger things up :D
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I can tell you now, the lowest of all the skill-sets covers relocating the NTE5. As a 'Managed Install' most ISP's have the 'Home Wiring Solution' built into the package. This allows for re-siting of NTE, or NTE and extention socket swop, or data cable run. This ensures the EU has the Hub where they want/need it to be. :)
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The BT Wholesale checker has been showing FTTC arriving at my PCP March 2014.
Now it doesn't, however a small FTTC cabinet has appeared 30 metres or so from the PCP in the last week and they are quite clearly prepping for a cable pull from PCP as there's a large hole in the pavement. Sub-contractors from the electricity company were there over the weekend and completed whatever they were doing (signage is all taken down now).
The BT Superfast Fibre checker still says end of 2013.
So I'm assuming that the cabinet is likely to be commissioned this quarter - I can't see any other reason for it to drop off the planning database?
Does this seem logical?
I was rather hoping they'd stick to the original timetable :)
Edit - two Openreach vans there now, one of the large ones and one of the transit-sized ones. All the OR bods were on a teabreak when I walked past, might go have a word later.
I am kind of in the same situation as yourself, that is OR are busy doing cabling in my area, and as I have mentioned in another post, my cabinet hasn't been upgraded yet, although many in my town have.
I have also noticed from the wholesale checker that the estimate of March 2014, has disappeared, with no entry at all for FTTC....what gives, does anyone have an explanation for this?
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The only explanation I have, is that they are way ahead of schedule and haven't yet published the new 'Go Live' dates ??
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The only explanation I have, is that they are way ahead of schedule and haven't yet published the new 'Go Live' dates ??
Just seems strange that they have removed the entry completely, they could have just left it as it was, and change it when they were in a position to do so! ::)
Thanks for you input anyway BS ;)
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I can tell you now, the lowest of all the skill-sets covers relocating the NTE5. As a 'Managed Install' most ISP's have the 'Home Wiring Solution' built into the package. This allows for re-siting of NTE, or NTE and extention socket swop, or data cable run. This ensures the EU has the Hub where they want/need it to be. :)
Even the ex-squaddies?
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Yup, even the ex-MOD lads and lasses.
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Yup, even the ex-MOD lads and lasses.
Interesting as I know of several cases in Leics where the job had to be rescheduled specifically because the OR engineer was unable to move the NTE - not for any physical reason, one was a simple through the wall job, EU had done the drilling etc.
NB - to any ex/current squaddies, I'm sure you're quite capable of dealing with two wires but (AIUI) its all about training to deal with the OR systems.
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There are many and varied reasons as to why a job can not be carried out, mostly due to regs or quality standards. What may seem an easy or fickle task to the EU, may mean a disciplinary action to the engineer ??
The ex-MOD's can only work on single-span tasks, so if it requires a wire to be run via various 'Carrier Poles', then the job has to go back to a long-standing OR engineer. Apart from that, they can ALL move an NTE5.
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There are many and varied reasons as to why a job can not be carried out, mostly due to regs or quality standards. What may seem an easy or fickle task to the EU, may mean a disciplinary action to the engineer ??
I hear you but this was a stud wall and the EU even moved the (new) backplate position nearer the front wall so the engineer would have 100mm free on the pair. All the wallplugs in place, just needed the NTE moved. Engineer said he couldn't do it as he couldn't test it?
Another one simply said he couldn't do that - all he could do was fit a data extension kit.
So I have my doubts about how easy this would be to communicate to OR via a mainstream ISP. 13 years ago OR got £150 per install and moving master socket was standard due to the usb modem. Now, unless you're with a niche ISP I suspect its quite hard to get this done.
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@ Puppy,
Re FTTC RFS dates, if you'd like to see a real pantomime just quickly scan from here downwards:-
http://www.ewhurst-broadband.org.uk/?p=2112&cpage=1#comment-656
I am no longer excited by a promise of new capacity being available but usually just wait for a report from the EU.
Kind regards,
Walter
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There are many and varied reasons as to why a job can not be carried out, mostly due to regs or quality standards. What may seem an easy or fickle task to the EU, may mean a disciplinary action to the engineer ??
I hear you but this was a stud wall and the EU even moved the (new) backplate position nearer the front wall so the engineer would have 100mm free on the pair. All the wallplugs in place, just needed the NTE moved. Engineer said he couldn't do it as he couldn't test it?
Another one simply said he couldn't do that - all he could do was fit a data extension kit.
So I have my doubts about how easy this would be to communicate to OR via a mainstream ISP. 13 years ago OR got £150 per install and moving master socket was standard due to the usb modem. Now, unless you're with a niche ISP I suspect its quite hard to get this done.
I can only quote what our remit entails. If the engineers on-site (MOD or otherwise) choose to flout this remit, then the issue is with the individuals and not the process I'm afraid.
OR have only been 'In play' for approx. 8yrs. Prior to that, and LLU, it was simply BT and the £120 charge applied for a full install was quite rare. Most installs were classed as 'In situ' and were done for free.
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OR have only been 'In play' for approx. 8yrs. Prior to that, and LLU, it was simply BT and the £120 charge applied for a full install was quite rare. Most installs were classed as 'In situ' and were done for free.
The install fee was £150 and EVERYONE had to pay it - you even had to pay it a second time if you wished to move to another ISP as migration didn't exist. That was 2001. I only remember as I got out of my contract with BT Openworld and got a complete refund of all fees so I didn't have to cough up another £150 when I moved to Nildram. Still had an engineer come out to remove the faceplate when I left Openworld and another one to fit exactly the same faceplate when I joined Nildram.
Guess I'll be doing it myself.
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Guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I can state from personal experience that if the drop-wire existed at the EU's premises, we classed this as 'In-situ' and there was no 'install' charge. There was no LLU back then, and we were still BT and had the monopoly.
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Just had a sudden recall of memory. I think the EU still paid a £50 connection fee, even if the work was 'in-situ'.
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PPS .............. to return to your original gripe of FTTC coming 'too early' for you personally, I can tell you that as of tomorrow, 'VDSL Cab only' engineering tasks are to begin nationwide. In other words, self-install appears to be with us.
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PPS .............. to return to your original gripe of FTTC coming 'too early' for you personally, I can tell you that as of tomorrow, 'VDSL Cab only' engineering tasks are to begin nationwide. In other words, self-install appears to be with us.
Oh good, then that's what's happened here to mine then! ;) :D
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Just had a sudden recall of memory. I think the EU still paid a £50 connection fee, even if the work was 'in-situ'.
It was £150 and that fee was set by BT Ignite. I still have the emails/letters from Openworld and Nildram - just checked the archive as you had me wondering :) It was £50/month for 256kbps back then as well....
PPS .............. to return to your original gripe of FTTC coming 'too early' for you personally, I can tell you that as of tomorrow, 'VDSL Cab only' engineering tasks are to begin nationwide. In other words, self-install appears to be with us.
In practical terms, how soon is that likely to filter down to us plebs?
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Obviously I can't comment on your experience from 2001, but what I can categorically say, is that when we closed an Installation Task, (before Openreach was formed), we had 3 sections to fill in regarding the wiring details.
The first was a box asking 'Is there evidence that service ahs previously existed ?'. We indicated that there was by way of inputting a '1', or that there wasn't, by way of a '0'.
The next 2 boxes covered Internal Wiring.
If the first box had a '1' in it, the EU got the installation for free as it was classed as 'In-situ'. I can't be any clearer than that I'm afraid. There may well have been sundries such as a 'Connection fee' to cover Frames work and admin, but I reiterate, the 'In-Situ' component of the installation was free.
Regarding your other matter, it begins at 'Pleb level' ( ;D) tomorrow. The tasks will be rolling out from then. :)
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Gentlefolk,
1. Has anybody seen any instructions on what types of modems are compatible with BT Wholesale's VDSL offerings to CPs and if so are these to be unlocked so the EU can determine if adequate services are provided ?
2. Is a CP now entitled to request a DLM reset without an Openreach visit ?
Kind regards,
Walter
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Two very good questions, Walter. Alas, I can't answer them only to say that the 'brief' we got was that CP's were working on ways of combining modem and router, so that there was just the one item to plug in. I would guess that development stages of this mythical beast, ensure it is left 'open' to EU's prying eyes, as opposed to 'locked down' ?? Other than that, I have no idea at all !!
Regarding the FTTC 'Recalc' (reset), I shall certainly keep my eyes and ears open around this subject, Walter. If I find anything out, I shall give feedback anon. :)
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Regarding the FTTC 'Recalc' (reset), I shall certainly keep my eyes and ears open around this subject, Walter. If I find anything out, I shall give feedback anon. :)
:idea: Is it possible that the imminent arrival of the PCP-only connection was preceeded by some behind-the-scenes changes to the profile banding that (some) people believe has been happening only very recently? :hmm:
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Gentlefolk,
1. Has anybody seen any instructions on what types of modems are compatible with BT Wholesale's VDSL offerings to CPs and if so are these to be unlocked so the EU can determine if adequate services are provided ?
Perhaps http://www.sinet.bt.com/498v4p3.pdf (http://www.sinet.bt.com/498v4p3.pdf) ?
3. CPE REQUIREMENTS ... 20
3.1 SCOPE ... 20
3.2 REQUIREMENTS... 20
3.2.1 Physical Connection ... 20
3.2.2 VDSL2 Layer... 21
3.2.3 Ethernet Layer ... 24
3.2.4 WAN VLAN Layer ... 24
3.2.5 Ethernet OAM... 25
3.2.6 CPE VDSL2 Filter Requirements... 26
3.2.7 Supplementary Information... 28
[Edit] for example, a properly configured HG622 is a 'one-box' VDSL modem/router (there are many others), and with the current BTOR SSFP would be compliant with the Centralised filtering requirements of 3.2.6.1, and with a Z-350UK filter dongle would be compliant with the Distributed filtering requirements of 3.2.6.2. Of course the usual concerns will arise wrt star-wired extensions presenting bridged taps. Note that section 3.2.6.3 of the SIN explicitly addresses the bell-wire issue. Otherwise, it would appear that sync reductions from the distributed filtering model are in line with the length of the extension wiring exposed. :)
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Regarding the FTTC 'Recalc' (reset), I shall certainly keep my eyes and ears open around this subject, Walter. If I find anything out, I shall give feedback anon. :)
:idea: Is it possible that the imminent arrival of the PCP-only connection was preceeded by some behind-the-scenes changes to the profile banding that (some) people believe has been happening only very recently? :hmm:
Unfortunately, my 'expertise' in FTTC banding is pretty much non-existant, Colin. In my own personal experience though, the 'bandings' have been there since I first started working on FTTC, which is a couple of years now at a guess ??
As engineers, they tend to be used whilst faulting a circuit. Lets say DLM has capped the EU's circuit to 10Meg DS. With our testers plugged in at this speed, errors will be practically zero. So, we request the NGA Helpdesk perform an 'Override' to assist with the faulting. The NGA Helpdesk will look at what the circuits capability has been in recent weeks via RRT, and apply the relevant banding, lets say 'Level 31' which is ...... 29-45Mbps.
Once faulting is completed, the engineer will ring the NGA Helpdesk and request that a 'Recalc' be carried out. This should then put the circuit n an 'Open Profile' of 128Kbps - 80Mbps.
The DLM acts on its 'sampling' every single night (well, early morning from what we were told). I suppose if it sees something it doesn't like, then it may apply a banding ?? I really don't know ??
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Thanks BS that's very helpful, as always. :drink:
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OR have only been 'In play' for approx. 8yrs. Prior to that, and LLU, it was simply BT and the £120 charge applied for a full install was quite rare. Most installs were classed as 'In situ' and were done for free.
The install fee was £150 and EVERYONE had to pay it - you even had to pay it a second time if you wished to move to another ISP as migration didn't exist. That was 2001. I only remember as I got out of my contract with BT Openworld and got a complete refund of all fees so I didn't have to cough up another £150 when I moved to Nildram. Still had an engineer come out to remove the faceplate when I left Openworld and another one to fit exactly the same faceplate when I joined Nildram.
Guess I'll be doing it myself.
I can confirm it was £150 install and the EU had to pay it regardless of what work the engineer did or didn't do. You got a usb ST330 - more commonly known as the frog.. (Hence the start of my page frogstats and why it still bears that name.)
Adsl was 39.99 pm for 512kbps - there wasnt anything faster for residential users, but they dropped the price to £29.99 pm just before I went live.
Wires only was only in trials in 2002 and iirc was £47 or £50 depending on ISP.
Migration wasn't possible until 2005 ... even then it was only ipstream to ipstream, previously it was a full cease and re provide, along with the relevant new setup costs and a few weeks of downtime.
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There was something in about 2002 where btr was offering cheap installs at a cut price from the £150 in some cases. Btw was wanting to bring down prices for all but were moaning that it was oftel or some regulatory thing causing delays. I recall wanadoo having a hissy cause btr went ahead and slashed prices before bt wholesale did.
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Edited to add
I just tried to google self install to see if I could find an exact date as to when self install came in for all. I didn't find out, but the first result made me laugh cause it was something I wrote in about 2004. :D
http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/selfinstall.htm
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Gentlemen,
My grateful thanks also to all.
Kind regards,
Walter
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I think we are talking at cross-purposes here. I'm alluding to the fact that a PSTN install was free if 'In-situ' ...... not DSL. Apologies if I've misunderstood.
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I think we are talking at cross-purposes here. I'm alluding to the fact that a PSTN install was free if 'In-situ' ...... not DSL. Apologies if I've misunderstood.
Ah I see, that makes sense. What I was talking about was ADSL install and moving the NTE at the same time. That used to be covered in the £150 install fee as the ADSL modem was usb so master socket had to be near the computer. Of course if you didn't need to move the NTE then £150 was a lot for installing a faceplate :)
In my case now, I have about 30m of cable external to the house which was put in when ADSL was installed - basically the cable run from the front living room to a rear bedroom used as an office. Given we'll be selling the house in 3 years or so, this (installing VDSL) would seem to be the ideal time to arrange moving the NTE back to the original position as this bedroom is likely to be used for small children. As things have "evolved" the bedroom has turned into spaghetti junction (two switches, one router, one computer, printer, USB over IP box, feeds into loft for HDHomerun boxes, etc etc) so I need to sort this out :)
Anyway its a simple enough job - all I have to do is remove 4 crimps and replace with 2 crimps. At some point after that I'll get the ladder out and physically remove the cable run - I have some network rewiring to do on that side of the house anyway.
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Hi rizla,
First time poster and have been lurking for a while, reading up...
Intrigued that you mentioned a planning database... Would this have any info on PCP80 and PCP84 on the LVWAR exchange? Trying to solve a bit of a mystery at the moment. LVWAR Echange isn't live yet, but new cabs are going in all over. PCP80 is supposed to be enabled in phase 10b, no mention of PCP84, but the new cab gets sited right next to PCP84. I think the distsnce between 80 and 84 is more than 100m, so not sure if they can make one serve as a SCP or not.. ???
Thanks.
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Hi Matt and welcome,
It's highly unlikely that BT would re-wire any PCP cabinets as part of a FTTC installation program, but perhaps BS will confirm.
In any case the FTTC capacity (Usually of 128 or 256 channels with 100 or 200 pr tie cable capacity) is significantly lower than the live twisted pair count as there are usually many lines not wanting (daring ?) to jump for a more expensive VDSL service.
The most reliable public data is usually to be found on the BT Wholesale web site, provided you are not on a TalkTalk or AOL web site due to the hissy fit between the them & BT:-
http://www.dslchecker.bt.com/adsl/adslchecker.welcome
Kind regards,
Walter
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If the 2 Cabs are 'stand alone' (which they obviously are due to their invidual markings .... 80 and 84), then they will not make one or the other into an SCP.
I see you've already visited this thread ......... http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,12519.45/topicseen.html ..... which is where I was going to point you anyway. ;D
There are a few reasons why sometimes a new FTTC can not be installed. I would continue to monitor the situation my friend.
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Thanks, guys. I've sent a note off to nga.enquiries to see if they can shed any light on it, as up until recently, cab 80 was set to be enabled. It could be a delay, they may be doing the cabs in a phase (closest to a-roads first, working inwards), or (and hopefully not!) they may have decided not to enable my cab. Either way, I'll let you know when I know. Fingers crossed.