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[beavykins]

Hi, I have been looking around trying to fix my ADSL problems for a while now and finally I think I have found the problem.
I live in a newly built house (just over a year old) but sadly my house lies quite a long way from the exchange. I knew I was never going to get very high speeds but I was downloading at around 50k/sec, then it suddenly dropped to around 20 so I complained, the engineer said he thought he had found the problem and it went up to 60k, its slowly dropped again and now it says I am on a 300ish kbps profile. Anyway, after looking at Kitz I saw that there was a test socket under the main face plate. So I hooked up my router and tried that.

My computer is upstairs and through the socket there I get a connection speed of around 600kbps.
Through the main socket with the face plate on I get around 430kbps.
Now after taking the face plate off I connect at around 1888kps!!!

Here are the stats:
Connection Speed: 1888kbps / 448kbps
Line Attenuation: 63db / 15.5db
Noise Margin: 6db / 16db

That is quite a big jump, sadly at the moment I still have the 300kbps profile and I know it takes days to improve. The only problem is I can't leave the face plate off with my net cable trailing downstairs because I have a dog that will chew it. So ideally I need to somehow fix the wiring in order to have the socket in my room connect at somwhere near the 1888kbps mark. I am amazed that I get better speeds upstairs than on the main socket which makes me think its a problem there. My question really I guess is what should I do now to try and get this fixed? Does it sound like something BT should fix or do we need to get somebody else in?

Also i noticed inside the main socket there seem to be 3 wires just poking around with cut ends that don't seem to be connected to anything, is that normal? It seems quite cluttered in there.
And finally my mum also has ADSL on a second line for work, which seems to be even worse than mine but I am unable to test it. That wouldn't be affecting my speed would it?

Sorry for the long drawn out question, I wanted to be as detailed as possible incase you spot something I haven't thought of. Thanks for any help.

[waltergmw]

Hi beavykins and welcome,

It sounds as if you have a standard 3 pair cable entering your master socket. The first thing to do is to remove the ring wire connected to terminal 3 as shown here:-

http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/socket.htm

Make sure all unconnected wires are pushed to the back of the box and are out of the way.

I would then get an ADSL Nation filtered faceplate, (or possibly, if BT have to call, get them to change the existing faceplate for a BT Openreach filtered one) and connect the modem directly to the master socket. (You can play around with house wiring but that could be difficult in your situation.)

See:-
http://www.adslnation.com/phpapps/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=105

I would then use homeplugs to distribute Ethernet around the house ASSUMING YOUR MOTHER ISN'T ALREADY DOING SO.
See:-
http://www.netgear.co.uk/home_powerline_adapters.php
avoiding the very fast expensive ones.

(If allowed you could share a single ADSL broadband connection, so saving money.)

Failing that, use a wireless modem and install a wireless card if necessary, in the PC is another option, again assuming your mother isn't using a wireless connection.

Your speed is quite good for an attenuation of 63 dB
See :-

http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/max_speed_calc.php

Your mother's line, which is probably connected via a different master socket might affect your line, but as your line performance is quite good at the master socket, and if you can connect the modem at the master socket, I don't think there's too much to worry about. Do make sure that all sockets with devices plugged in have filters and check when you are in the test socket that all your slave sockets are dead. I.e. you don't have star wiring around your house.

You could remove your mother's ring wire as well.

If you need more help please tell us who your ISP is and what type of modem you are using.

Kind regards,
Walter

[beavykins]

Hi and thanks for the reply. Lots of useful info there.
I got frustrated last night and bit the bullet and sent BT an online ticket telling them about the problem, I went into great detail outlining the problem like I did here. Unfortunatly they didn't call me on my mobile like i requested and phoned my house phone, my mum answered who knows nothing of these things... They told her they were checking the line and asking what router I was using and various other things that I had already suplied in the info I had given them. I wouldn't be suprised if they didn't even read it, they kept sayinf that my line was dropping out, to which my mum replied no its just slow... but they wouldn't have it. At the end they said they ound a fault outside my house and it should be fixed in 24 hours. There may well be an external fault but that doesn't explain why my connection speed is 3x faster through the test socket than on an extension.

I just checked my download speeds and profile (although it hasn't been 24 hours) and here are the current details through the upstairs socket:

Your DSL connection rate: 576 kbps(DOWN-STREAM),  448 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 350 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 185 kbps

and my router stats are:

Connection Speed: 576 kbps/448 kbps
Line Attenuation: 62 db/15.5 db
Noise Margin: 6 db/15 db

My attenuation has gone down my 2 (it was 63 through the test socket and 64 in my room) and my upstream noise margin has dropped by 1, but that may all be down to the time of day etc I guess.
Anoyingly though my throughput seems to have halved...

I will leave it another day to see if BT sort the 'error' if not I will look into removing the bell wire and the other bits you suggested. I can't however connect through the master socket because I can't have the wires trailing downstairs... How much of a job would it be to move the master socket to my room (if thats even dooable)?

I had a look at my mums socket and I think her line only goes into her study, however the socket only looks like a standard one and does not have a face plate... she wouldn't be a spur off my master socket would she?

I will keep you posted with any progress (if any) and thanks again for the help.

[waltergmw]

Hi beavykins,

You cannot move the BT master socket as that's BT's property but you can order a socket move from them at some expense.

Whether or not BT have cured a problem it's a good idea to remove the bell wire as soon as you can.
You may find that's sufficient to cure the problem and it doesn't cost any money.

Home plugs would let you have the modem in the master socket with an ethernet cable from the modem into a power line unit with another one upstairs into your PC.

You cannot possibly have two separate ADSL services on the same twisted pair, they must be separate phone lines.

Kind regards,
Walter

[beavykins]

I figured as much with the 2 adsl connections, I just thought it odd that there only seems to be one master socket. If I remove the bell wire and then in the future an engineer comes round I wouldn't get into any kind of trouble for removing it would I? Also the the women who clearly didn't know anything about my problem said it would take 24 hours for it to be fixed, is it a good idea not to restart my router in that time or does it not make a difference? only if i am tinkering with bell wires the router will no doubt go offline. Oh and if i am removing the bell wire on the master socket that will influence all the other sockets wont it? I don't need to that do anything on the socket I connect through?

Thanks again.

[beavykins]

YES!!!

I am so happy, i just removed the bell wire and my connection speed in my room upstairs went up to 1728kbps, i was only getting < 600kbps before! who would have thought one stupid wire would cause a year of grief. Hopefully now my profile will increase.

Thanks alot waltergmw for you help.

[waltergmw]

I'm pleased you've taken the hint from Kitz's excellent site. I would remove the bell wire throughout. Remember you're dealing with very small signals and any radio aerials you can remove are certainly going to help the stability. Note that your actual throughput is governed by your bRAS or IP Profile as BT call it. This value could go up a little over time. Have a look occasionally with Thinkbroadband and / or BT speedtest sites.

It's also wise to turn off and disconnect the modem while you are doing the wiring and only to do these sorts of operations about once in any hour. If you have the time and the inclination you will find a vast amount of technical detail on this site and most of it is written in layman's terms.

Good luck with your endeavours,
Walter

[beavykins]

I can't thank you enough, I never thought id have good connection in this house, all the websites say 256 is the max I can get... I just checked my profile and it has already updated to 1500kbps. up so happy
I will go around tomorrow and do the bell wire jobby. I take it I just need to disconnect it and not actually remove it completly.

THANKS!!!

[beavykins]

I checked my connection last night and the speed has dropped from around 1700 to 1408kbps, I left it overnight and went to work hoping it would go back up but its still on 1408 even after a few reconnections. I checked the stats and my downstream noise margin has gone up from 6 to 9, would this be responsible for the drop in speed and have you got any idea what mioght have caused the increase?

Thanks.

[mr_chris]

Hiya

You're correct about the bell wire - you don't need to physically remove it from the cable, just disconnect it from the IDC connectors in the sockets. It's a good idea to disconnect it in every extension socket as well as the master, then it's less likely to cause an issue.

>> downstream noise margin has gone up from 6 to 9, would this be responsible for the drop in speed and have you got any idea what mioght have caused the increase?

This is due to BT's Dynamic Line Management, or DLM. It's a system that raises target SNR margin if it detects that the line is unstable for any reason. Have you had a number of resyncs in a short space of time (often as little as a handful of resyncs in an hour is sometimes enough to trigger the DLM).

If you have a stable line at 9dB for a number of days (14 days supposedly), with a low error stats count, then providing the wind is blowing in the right direction and the DLM is having a good day, it might lower your SNR back down to 6dB.

It's worth noting that in my own experience, once your target SNR has been lowered (mine was done manually by my ISP), the DLM becomes a lot more sensitive - I don't know for how long or how much more sensitive - or whether this is still the case - but thought I'd point it out anyway.

So I suppose re-check all your internal wiring, to give your ADSL signal the best chance to have a stable connection for the next couple of weeks. Good luck, and let us know

[beavykins]

Thanks Chris,

I have already disconnected all the internal wires, I was playing around with it quite a bit and i have resynced a bunch of times so I will leave it connected for a while to see if its lowered.
My mums study next door has got adsl and a fax line going into it (forgot about the fax before). I opened up that socket yesterday to remove the bell wire too but hers didnt have one on either side, only wires going into 2 and 5 (if ir ecall correctly) but the wire colours were not the same. I dont think it is affecting my connection but I thought i would mention it.

I will let you know how it gets on.

Cheers.

[waltergmw]

Hi beavykins,

It might be worth checking if you have three separate lines into the house.

If you want to check the numbers(if they are not ex-directory) doing a quiet line test by dialling 17070 and listening for the number.

Some people have improved their ADSL speeds if it is on a fax line on it by putting double filters on the fax machine cable.

Kind regards,
Walter

[beavykins]

How does that work? do I dial the number from a phone connected to the line or do i enter the number somehow after phoning? I would imagine it would have to be 3 seperate lines, because i have adsl on 1, my mum has adsl on another, and then the fax has a different number. There is no filter on the fax line, i figured as it was a seperate line without adsl one wasnt needed... is that right?

Also my noise margin has dropped down to 7 from 9 but not yet got back to 6. the connection speed hasn't gone back up though but I am hoping it will in time, I would resync but I am a bit reluctant to do that incase it just increase sthe noise margin again. Should the connection speed increase by itself or should I resync?

Thanks.

[Ezzer]

let the speed adjust itself first over a few days before trying a resync. repeated resyncs could make the dlm at the exchange think theres a problem and start cranking the speed back looking for reliablity

[waltergmw]

Hi again beavykins,

To do a quiet line test you wait for the dial tone and then just use 17070.
There's a dulcet-voiced lady who will usually tell you the number of the line and then you select option2 for the quiet line test allowing you to listen for the crackles and rushing noises.

If the fax line is separate, and you will prove that with the quiet line test, you are correct in saying it doesn't need a filter.

Re noise margin, note it is precisely that and you want the highest margin figure you can get.
Think of it as freeboard on a boat, the smaller the margin the more the chance you'll be swamped !

Kind regards,
Walter