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[Ash888]

thanks Kitz, il get onto BE and see if this is the case.
il let you know what happens.

[kitz]

You should be able to tell yourself by doing a tracert to the other persons IP.

[Ash888]

i ran f8lure test over night and i thought id show you the results. alot of red so i guess there is something wrong.
on top of that there has just been some thunder and lightening and heavy rain this morning from about 4am.

nothing was using the connection overnight, all devices were shutdown so just the router was on as normal.

also, i just remembered that it cant really be the low snr as it used to be fine at 3db with interleaved.
so i guess the problem is with fastpath...
or it could just be cod5

[attachment deleted by admin]

[kitz]

Attached below my f8lure graph over the same period for comparison.

After looking at yours it doesn't really look like what you would see if it was one of the Be gateway/peering points having problems.

>> also, i just remembered that it cant really be the low snr as it used to be fine at 3db with interleaved.
>> so i guess the problem is with fastpath...

It really would be worth while setting up routerstats to monitor your SNR margin and your errors.
By any chance do you have a high error count this am?

When your SNR gets too low often a line is able to handle it find on interleaved, as Forward Error Correction (FECs) are able to correct a large amount of errors. 
If you switch off interleaving on a line that has a lot of FECs, then theres a strong possibility that that the FEC count will then become a CRC count..  CRCs are when the data has to be retransmitted because the data packet is corrupted because of noise.

If this is the case on your line, then you have 2 options:

1) Apply interleaving which will automatically be able to repair the packets without having to be re-transmitted...  but this carries a small over-head of increased latency times.
2) Increase the Target SNR to the next stage, which gives your line a bit more lee-way so your signal part of the SNR is a bit stronger... the downside of this though is that your sync speed will be lower.

It may be worthwhile increasing your target SNR for a short while through the Be control panel to see if this does increase your stability.
You can then decide if you wish a lower sync speed with better latency or vice versa.







[attachment deleted by admin]

[Ash888]

when im on interleaved at 6db i get a graph like yours. FEC errors are usually quite high as i recall on the thomson.

ps3 was on for a couple of hours, i was trying cod again, but no joy,
played fifa 09 and it was fine.

the graph while im playing looks fine with no packet loss as shown bellow. from 8 till now.
the red line after 8am was when i became host and was experiencing the same problems, i then stopped and switched to fifa.
see what you make of that. also the red line packet loss only appear when the ps3 is off. could this be down to settings on the my pc?
it happens even if my pc isnt on...

error look like this

Total time = 22 hours 23 min 27 sec

SF  = 4964435
CRC = 41891
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 16292
Latest 1 day time = 22 hours 23 min 27 sec
SF  = 4964435
CRC = 41891
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 16292
Latest 15 minutes time = 8 min 27 sec
SF  = 31281
CRC = 106
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 85
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
SF  = 55454
CRC = 149
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 125
Previous 1 day time = 0 sec
SF  = 0
CRC = 0
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 0
15 minutes interval [-30 min to -15 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF  = 55515
CRC = 537
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 315
15 minutes interval [-45 min to -30 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF  = 55454
CRC = 640
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 335
15 minutes interval [-60 min to -45 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF  = 55454
CRC = 462
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 257
Showtime Drop Reason:   8000
Last Retrain Reason:   8000


i am going to increase the snr, but i am only able to adjust the downstream snr via the dgteam fw. isnt it mainly the upstream snr which is concerning us?




[attachment deleted by admin]

[Ash888]

iv changed snr so down snr will stay at around 4db,

when set at 3db it usually drops to 2.8db where as upstream stays at 3.4 - 3.6
they dont fluctuate but gradually move up or down over the course of the day.

im running routerstats il post back results later for you to analyse.

[Ash888]

had all kinds of things happen over the past few hours.

after adjusting the snr to 4db the f8lure graph began to look normal again, i was still looking at how to solve the ps3 problem.
i made a few changes in the router settings and that cause packet loss on the graph aswell, but then it just went crazy.

after looking on the BE member centre, it said there is maintenance work being carried out today and they confirmed that it was effecting my area. even though it said until 18:00 it was done in a few minutes and the graph showed the line settling again.

i was monitoring the noise using routerstats, and found that my noise was slowly dropping from 4 down to 3 again. so i pushed it up again and it started coming down again.

at this point i was in the middle of all that red in the graph, so i thought there was a problem at my end and switched back to standard 6db.

so my line is showing more stability again but i just tried the ps3 again and the problem is still there.
i guess its a problem with fastpath now, but my connection was working fine with everything else. its a shame if i have to change it just for this game.

to be honest thats mainly my brothers game, so i dont mind if it doesnt work, but then he cant really do anything else.

i will run router stats overnight, to see what effects snr.


more on the graph: it continues from the last 1 i posted.
shows from when i increased downstream snr
then maintenance working being done
then the line was switched to 6db fastpath.




[attachment deleted by admin]

[jid]

Were you running Router Stats when you got those results in the f8lure graph?

That would help diagnose this one more easily.

That would allow us to eliminate your connection, as that looks to me more like a spurt of noise caused CRCs which affected throughput and latency.

[Ash888]

yeh i was running it at the time. but as i said it doesnt show too much change.

the drops were when i increased noise margin and the router needed to resync.

but as i said all the packet loss in that short time was due to network maintenance, which is show at '14:31:50' until i reset to standard 6db - its been fine since then
its just the ps3 game iv got a problem with.



[attachment deleted by admin]

[jid]

Try User Defining CRC errors as a graph  (SF Errors)

- On the Router Search Text Tab within the Settings of RouterStats
- Highlight the "Down SF errors"
- Then Click User Def 1
- Then Type CRC then OK.

That will give us an idea to CRC behaviour as that SNR graph is very good indeed.

[Ash888]

i dont seem to be able to do that...in the router search text it only has the basic netgear stats, tx, rx etc.

noise was stable again over night. i stupidly forgot to reset my router noise margin to default, so it was at 8db instead of 6db. but i sorted that now.
f8lure graph looked alot healthier, no red until i just adjusted the router settings this morning.

the ps3 is doing my head in thought, i just cant put my finger on it.
i would just use the thomson again, but that doesnt have dmz, i have to port forward about 8 ports for each game.
also, thomson wont hold sync at 3db with fastpath like the netgear does.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[kitz]

The f8lure graphs monitors latency between your router/PC and Toms server.
It would be usual to see latency increase if any other traffic is passing through the router.

Total time = 22 hours 23 min 27 sec
CRC = 41891
ES  = 16292

approx =  31 CRCs per min & 12 ES per min.

On its own and if it was spread evenly then the router should be able to cope.. but if the noise is in bursts over a shorter time period then a cluster of noise bursts caused by the SNRM being too low could well be your problem.
By giving yourself a bit more target SNR this could improve things a fair bit.

>> the ps3 is doing my head in thought, i just cant put my finger on it.

Just a thought.. the ps3 itself isnt perhaps generating some background EMI type noise?

[Ash888]

i dont think the ps3 is generating background noise, its only 1 game and only 1 aspect of that game where i have a problem...when i host, everyone else lags.
i tried hosting a private party with my mates, and it was fine.

i just had a drop in connection for some reason? this kind of thing never happens especially as i have increased the snr.
maybe it is something to do with crc but if bursts were causing the problem then would that show a reaction in the snr via routerstats.
or would the bursts just show a drop like any other disconnection.

iv currently got spi firewall running on the netgear, can i disable it? NAT is still enabled - but then i have the ps3 ip in DMZ so it shouldnt make a difference right?
BE have been looking into my pings and there are no problems with latency either. as you also tried for me Kitz.

i also tried ping and traceroute while i was host, and results were the same, although webpages were taking a little longer to load.

im beginning to think its the netgear, as the bebox was fine. thats why im considering going back and just disabling the firewall to get around the dmz.
but i wont be able to hold fastpath at 3db.
do you know if the thomson 585v7 supports dmz without the be firmware?
iv also seen telnet commands for CONE and DMZ

when i did the dmz telnet on the bebox i got nat 3 on the ps3 and upnp unavailable.

f8lure graph was looking good up until this morning, connection was fine but showed a spike of reds between 7 - 7:30. then at 8 i had the drop.

do you think that the adsl nation faceplates or iplate will make a difference to noise?
im thinking its probably better for people with less stable lines than mine, i dont know if i would see much benefit.

[Ash888]

RESULT!

i have been playing cod online as host without problems or other people lagging.

it was a long day, which started with a lot of disconnection, i switched to the bebox so that i could take a look at the crc errors, i kept getting disconnected as soon as the router reconnected. in the end i just turned it off and left the line free for an hour.

when i came back to it, i connected the netgear again, and reset it and setup the connection again and disabled the SPI firewall.
i kept everything else default so ps3 wasnt put in dmz.

i left the pc on for a while to monitor errors or to see if the disconnections were still happening. but it was fine so i put the ps3 on.
tested the connection upnp available and NAT 2 as normal.
then called my brother to sit there an call me when he became host.

as usual i got picked to host straight away and it was fine. played for hour or so and hosted a few games and the problem seems to have gone.

i think it was mainly down to the SPI firewall. as it was checking every thing that was trying to connect to me.

il leave it at 6db with fastpath until i know im not getting any more disconnections and then see how low i can push the snr.

thanks for your help.

[kitz]

I'm glad that you seem to have found what it was..  thanks for reporting back... and let us know if it continues