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Author Topic: Thank You Power Cut!  (Read 22667 times)

William Grimsley

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Re: Thank You Power Cut!
« Reply #60 on: July 17, 2016, 11:30:04 AM »

No, you're incorrect. When the modem resynced the Downstream SNR Margin was nearly 3 dB not 6 dB. :lol:
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pooclah

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Re: Thank You Power Cut!
« Reply #61 on: July 17, 2016, 12:06:43 PM »

I very much doubt it.  You probably synched at the normal target of 6 and then quickly dropped to 3 as other users connected.
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William Grimsley

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Re: Thank You Power Cut!
« Reply #62 on: July 17, 2016, 01:19:49 PM »

Yeah, that's a point. My apologies. :-[
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forceware

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Re: Thank You Power Cut!
« Reply #63 on: July 17, 2016, 02:10:53 PM »

Is this going to be another thread where the OP laughs at all the advice from people with vast knowledge on the subject. Then when DLM dicides to band and/or add additional interleaving proclaim that all the above people are idiots?
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William Grimsley

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Re: Thank You Power Cut!
« Reply #64 on: July 17, 2016, 02:19:39 PM »

Unbeliveable! Are you crazy? DLM will not make any changes to the line as it's in the green state, it will only resync to get the SNR Margin back to 6 dB at some point. Sorry, but please watch your words, you've come over very offensive! Oops!

I've also got a very good knowledge of this subject, thank you very much!
« Last Edit: July 17, 2016, 02:30:27 PM by William Grimsley »
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Chrysalis

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Re: Thank You Power Cut!
« Reply #65 on: July 17, 2016, 02:36:30 PM »

Did she?    Ive not been around much this week and only just seen this thread   :-\

Admittedly Ive always said SNRm dropping if you're one of the first to sync up after a power cut is normal.

However, I've always advocated that running a line below 3dB is not good.  Especially one that has daily SNR swings.
You're opening yourself up to increased risk of errors and DLM intervention. 
Even when on LLU with no DLM and a very short line with no SRM variance I never run my line at less than 3dB.

iirc you have g.inp back? (havent checked).   If so it perhaps doesnt matter quite as much, but it could only take one more disturber to be added or SNR blip when youre not around for the DLM gods to kick in.   

Look whats happened to my own (good) line this week when I wasnt around to notice something happening and now Im stuck with Interleaving and ~14Mbps off my headline rate. :(


O_o :( not good kitz.

* Chrysalis trots of to MDWS to check.

30k ES out of nowhere, any idea what happened jul 12?
« Last Edit: July 17, 2016, 02:39:55 PM by Chrysalis »
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William Grimsley

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Re: Thank You Power Cut!
« Reply #66 on: July 17, 2016, 04:04:02 PM »

I don't know, I thought that when I first saw it but it can.

Well, I just tried that and it didn't make any difference, thought it was absolute rubbish!
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kitz

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Re: Thank You Power Cut!
« Reply #67 on: July 17, 2016, 04:07:37 PM »

Hi, kitz.

Check MDWS as I'm uploading to it now, as you can see the line is very stable and yes G.INP is active on the line.

I will monitor it, but I think what your line experienced is a seperate issue, that's very unlikely to happen on my line.

Because youre not continually uploading stats then its hard to see the wider view and the exact stats at time of resync.

Having just looked at your graph, I will confirm that the daily variance of 1.5 dB is within normal range.  This is fine.
The 0.1dB jitter is also perfectly normal behaviour.  This is fine.
As far as DLM is concerned then your CRC and E/S error rate is fine.
 
Without doubt its G.INP that is keeping your line stable - look at how many Retransmits there are compared to other lines which average 1 or 2 retransmits.  Youre averaging about 20+ per min and also some increased spikes.  I cant see any period in the graph where ReTx are nil. Your LEFTRS counter is also racking up.   This is not so fine.

G.INP works in the background only when needed.  Continual G.INP retransmits mean that your router will be having to work harder and there will be some increased (but small) amount of latency whilst ReTX is happening.   Basically they are like silent CRCs that are being corrected between the modem & dslam, rather than PC and remote server.

Yes you are stable, but that line is working hard without much margin for error, as I mentioned above it could just take one slight thing to risk the wrath of DLM.  Letting a line that is known to have daily swings run at 2.5 dB is IMHO not always a good idea.  You're sailing very close to the wind. Ive just had a look at some other G.inp lines and cant see one that looks quite like yours.  There's some that show expected spiking but yours is continual. I dont have a clue what is acceptable for ReTX, but for CRC anything above 60 is bad. 
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kitz

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Re: Thank You Power Cut!
« Reply #68 on: July 17, 2016, 04:16:01 PM »

O_o :( not good kitz.

* Chrysalis trots of to MDWS to check.

30k ES out of nowhere, any idea what happened jul 12?

See thread here.  Could be co-incidence but the cab had just recently rec'd the xx206 update.  Start and stop times appear to correlate with times when the cab would be uploading DLM data (10-11 am & pm).  I'd guess it was cab related rather than line specific.
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William Grimsley

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Re: Thank You Power Cut!
« Reply #69 on: July 17, 2016, 04:18:28 PM »

Thanks, kitz.

As you have explained, the line is in good shape except for the ReTX errors, I didn't really think these errors were actually an issue (thought it was just CRC's). I will keep my line on MDWS, I'm pretty sure the modem is fine. :)
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kitz

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Re: Thank You Power Cut!
« Reply #70 on: July 17, 2016, 04:19:46 PM »

Well, I just tried that and it didn't make any difference, thought it was absolute rubbish!

Dont think Ive personally ever seen a case where downloading has affected the SNRm.  I have seen cases where downloading can increase the error rates, but that perhaps is more understandable. 
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William Grimsley

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Re: Thank You Power Cut!
« Reply #71 on: July 17, 2016, 04:21:26 PM »

Dont think Ive personally ever seen a case where downloading has affected the SNRm.  I have seen cases where downloading can increase the error rates, but that is more understandable.

I don't understand how as DSL and internet are totally seperate. Whatever you do on the internet doesn't have any impact on the physical line coming into the property.
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kitz

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Re: Thank You Power Cut!
« Reply #72 on: July 17, 2016, 04:28:35 PM »

As you have explained, the line is in good shape except for the ReTX errors, I didn't really think these errors were actually an issue (thought it was just CRC's). I will keep my line on MDWS, I'm pretty sure the modem is fine. :)

Just be aware you've taken on the good bits but avoided the warnings. 
Also be aware that G-INP Retransmit TX are in effect the equivalent of CRCs.  They are the same type of errors (failed data) but handled at a different layer - ie the router doing the retransmits rather than say TCP on the PC.
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William Grimsley

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Re: Thank You Power Cut!
« Reply #73 on: July 17, 2016, 04:29:58 PM »

Right, so I'm getting hundreds of CRC's a day?! How come they're not appearing on the CRC counter and DLM isn't taking any action?!
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kitz

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Re: Thank You Power Cut!
« Reply #74 on: July 17, 2016, 04:35:44 PM »

A CRC is a counter for corrupt data packet(s) that needed to be re-requested.
G-INP Retransmit TX is a counter for corrupt data packet(s) that needed to be re-requested, only in this case its done at the the physical layer.

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