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[tim876543]

I gather there are 4 LLU operators with their own equipment in my local exchange.  One is rated below average, the other 3 very low.
Should I be concerned that BT has problems with noisy phone lines in this rural area?
Will LLU operators be less likely to reduce speed because of noise?

[HPsauce]

Just out of interest "rated" by who?

LLU operators can be more flexible than BT in the way their systems react to interference but the basic physics of broadband is the same for all so their speeds will reduce due to electrical noise, though recovery may be quicker when it goes away. 

[waltergmw]

Hi Tim,

Note that virtually all ISPs (except cable and a tiny number of fibre connections) rely on BT Openreach for the final copper loop and thus rely on their fault-finding teams**. On long rural lines, even if the costs are higher, it is worth considering how good are the fault reporting systems that the ISPs provide.

The first part of this process is how long it takes you to communicate with technical staff as opposed to call centre operatives?
Then comes the knowledge and skill of the staff to help you eliminate all probable causes within your house - and there are many !
The last part is how effective is the ISP to BT Openreach communication, particularly when many follow-up calls are necessary?

You'll see various threads on this forum where I've been involved for extended periods chasing faults which would have been almost impossible to solve with some ISPs.

Perhaps because faults are quite rare, many rating systems do not consider this point in detail.
Rural faults are also likely to be more complex due to longer line lengths.

** Note that BT Openreach field engineers are actually first class, but the business rules constrain their capabilities. E.g. a fault call is officially limited to a maximum of 2 hours and that includes driving around country lanes. Inter-call road distances could be 20 miles or more. (I expect Ezzer in Norfolk might suggest even further, especially as Norfolk doesn't even have a mile of motorway.)

Kind regards,
Walter

[tim876543]

Hi Walter


Thanks for the info - very enlightening.  The answer to rural situations has to be satellite or a mast based local system.
I clicked the Kijoma tab as that had a Kitz Green Button and it appears I might just be in a zone they cover.

Anyone know anything about Mr Kijoma?

[waltergmw]

Hi again Tim,

All wireless systems rely on a clear line of sight between a base station, or a repeater station, and your house.

The two main stations I'm aware of are on the ridge to the north of Pullborough and on Blackdown.
I believe Plaistow also has a service available.

We have two users high up on Holmbury Hill, but most of the Ewhurst jungle is impossible unless sufficient people were to cover the investment in a repeater station(s).

My general comments re fault finding should also be considered.

It's worth noting that Sam Knows, and Kitz's links into it, quite reasonably mention every exchange where KIjoma might be available. One such example is Abinger:-
http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/THAG
An understanding of the topology would rapidly determine that only a tiny number of houses, assuming the dense tree canopy does not interfere, on the southern extremity of the exchange around Holmbury Hill, would stand any chance of Kijoma coverage without a new set of repeater stations. (I know this to be the case as I was involved with some early satellite & WiFi systems around Holmbury St Mary and Peaslake.)

Kind regards,
Walter

[tim876543]

Ah ha... I admire the guy for doing it, but I am not sure the local
authority will tolerate a telegraph pole in my back garden.
They don't like these home electricity generators or mobile phone companies putting up their masts.

Anyone know of an alternative? satellite?
Will the mobile phone companies will eventually evolve a rural 10.0Mb broadband network so we can take down every telegraph pole?

[waltergmw]

Hi Tim,

Local authorities and the public are just as apoplectic about mobile phone masts.
Why more arem't disguised as trees or in church steeples etc. is another question.
You might find that broadband coverage is surprisingly good when compared to earlier systems.

The downside is that all systems have bandwidth and user capacities so you could have a deteriorating situation over time.

However it's well worth an experiment with a Blackbury.

Kind regards,
Walter

[tim876543]

Hi Walter

Seriously, since the CofE pension scheme made poor investment choices in the 1980s they need money from dual use to keep their business
going or they will go the same way as the Methodists and be forced to sell their churches for re-development to continue a reduced service.
It would also help reduce vandalism.
Medieval churches have steeples in prime mast positions 'cos line of sight visability was part of their design.

Yes, I was surprised I had so much choice with 4 ISPs having their own equipment in the local exchange.
The trouble is it seems that outfits offering poor service don't get excluded by normal competition due
to people being locked into 18 month contracts.

As it is, I have a problem with a noisy line which BT are not disposed to deal with.
My logical choice is a company prepared to chase BT until a normal service is provided.
The one beginning with Z seems to have a relevant good rating and I'm going to look them up.

Have a good summer Walter !!

[kitz]

If you are having a problem with your line..  A&A is also perhaps worth looking at

http://www.aaisp.net.uk/broadband-trial.html

[Ammit]

Do you know how far you are away from the exchange?? You can find out by entering your phone number and postcode on samknows.

Noisy lines are a pain, Openreach are so reluctant to do anything about line degradation I have joked to customers that they should sabotage their lines before now.  At least it would get the job done!!

[Azzaka]

Do you know how far you are away from the exchange?? You can find out by entering your phone number and postcode on samknows.

Noisy lines are a pain, Openreach are so reluctant to do anything about line degradation I have joked to customers that they should sabotage their lines before now.  At least it would get the job done!!

There are ways of getting it done, but you need to know the right ways... asking a cusotmer to sabotage thier ownline by shooting the 12 posts down the line is not something I would tell a customer, just to make sure the line is replaced and not just botched back together.

[BritBrat]

I used to get a bad line when it rained.

The engineers would always leave the pod up the wrong way and it collected water so I used to go and turn it the other way around and it fixed my issues.

Now they have fitted a new large one so I don't need to turn it around now.

LLU = cheaper and faster but if you have noise it may be worse but will not be better.

[Ammit]

Azzaka, I was joking... and the customers know that too, it's a very personal customer base that we have so it's not like i'm just telling randoms to do that.  thanks for the advice though. 

[kijoma]

Hi All,

Bumped into this forum in a rare period of relaxing (aka web research   )

Saw the old post below as it mentioned our company so thought i would clarify some things.

Kijoma has a significant coverage via three servers, the largest server covers the south downs up to north downs and includes Ewhurst, Leith hill, holmbury hill, pitch hill etc.. It also covers Fernhurst across to Maplehurst/dial post .

We have notable coverage of Ewhurst too via local relays as well as our main aerials. Problem is people there keep being told by Walter that Kijoma is not available to them so they do not request a survey from us direct (surveys are free).

All wireless system do not need a clear line of site, it is preferable, especially on longer distances (some of our customers are 30+km from the feed aerial, obstructions would be an issue there).  for shorter distances obstructions are not so important. Having a surveyed signal that is verified to be within our stringent requirements means you can have the service.

See the map on www.kijoma.net , under the "where ?" menu for our known coverage area.

The Ewhurst "Jungle" is by no means impossible for us and i do object to people making unqualified statements apparently on our behalf    and to the detriment of those people in these areas who carry on with no or very poor broadband because they believe this mis information.

Plaistow is a similar "jungle" and we cover all of it, same as burton mill, Sutton (sussex), Fernhurst, Maplehurst etc...

there, hope that helps to dispell the "experts" who don't do what we get done..

Cheers

Bill Lewis
Kijoma Broadband
High Speed Wireless broadband ISP
The top rated Wireless ISP 2005 - 2008 - ISP Review
Finalists in the best Wireless Provider award 2008 - ISPA awards
Members of the Internet Service Providers association (www.ISPA.org.uk)
http://www.kijoma.net

Hi again Tim,

All wireless systems rely on a clear line of sight between a base station, or a repeater station, and your house.

The two main stations I'm aware of are on the ridge to the north of Pullborough and on Blackdown.
I believe Plaistow also has a service available.

We have two users high up on Holmbury Hill, but most of the Ewhurst jungle is impossible unless sufficient people were to cover the investment in a repeater station(s).

My general comments re fault finding should also be considered.

It's worth noting that Sam Knows, and Kitz's links into it, quite reasonably mention every exchange where KIjoma might be available. One such example is Abinger:-
http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/THAG
An understanding of the topology would rapidly determine that only a tiny number of houses, assuming the dense tree canopy does not interfere, on the southern extremity of the exchange around Holmbury Hill, would stand any chance of Kijoma coverage without a new set of repeater stations. (I know this to be the case as I was involved with some early satellite & WiFi systems around Holmbury St Mary and Peaslake.)

Kind regards,
Walter

[roseway]

Admin note

While we can't deny a company the right to respond to criticisms, the above seems unnecessarily personal in tone, and a bit like an advertisement. Readers can make their own minds up about the issues. This thread is now locked.

Note - unlocked by request to allow further discussion - Roseway