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[liknoj]

At my property, the incoming BT phone line attaches via a porcelain insulator to a grey BT junction box on the outside wall. The incoming BT cable is two-core (white and orange) and the outgoing house cable (probably ca. 1950’s) is two-core (red and black):-           

About 7 meters of this cable traverses the outside wall to enter the house through an internal window frame where it connects into an old BT Protector box.     

From there, the ongoing connecting cable is old (again ca 1950’s) BT four-core brown/blue/orange/green phone cable. This 4 core cable extends 5 metres to an old BT internal connector block where it is split into two BT cables having more modern strands of cable with various colour coded bands on a white background:-   


One ongoing cable extends 5 metres into a modern BT phone box that connects to the downstairs BT Dect telephone via an ADSL filter:-

The other ongoing cable extends 6 metres to connect upstairs to a BT NTE5 box (having an ADSL front face filter insert) from where it connects via the ADSL outlet to a 3Com router (thence onwards 1 metre to the computer) and also via its phone line outlet and a separate cable into a second BT Dect telephone extension :-

Presently, there are 25 metres of varying cable and 5 assorted cable connections to get the ADSL signal into the house and into the 3Com router.
By installing a new BT NTE5 box inside the house immediately prior to the present protector box, the ongoing cable run could be reduced to just 5 metres directly into the router.
Additionally, it appears that the upstairs and downstairs telephones could be most easily connected to this new box (if also fitted with an ADSL front face filter) by using the existing old 4 core BT phone cable for the outlet!?
The questions are will this increase download speed (currently 2.5Mbps) and must BT Openreach be the contractor to re-connect the 2 core red and black cable into it?

[ColinS]

 

OK, so do I understand you correctly?:

(ignoring everything else for the moment), you are saying that the incoming line 'spits' into two before one of them reaches the NTE5?  If so, then yes no-one except BTOR can legally touch anything before the NTE5.  However your wiring is highly irregular, not to mention being a bridged tap (which may well be affecting your ADSL).  So, I would report the irregular wiring to whoever provides your phone service and ask them to have BTOR regularise it.  AFAIK because this irregular wiring is on the BTOR network side of the NTE5, there ought (normally) to be no charge to you, but Black_Sheep would be able to confirm that.

[liknoj]

Thanks for the advice. So far as I can see, the incoming 4 core wire from the 1950's protector box splits at this box (see attachment ) from where it then goes to a phone only extension box (coded NJU3/ 3A)and separately to a phone and ASDL NTE5 box.

[kitz]

>> from where it then goes to a phone only extension box (coded NJU3/ 3A)and separately to a phone and ASDL NTE5 box.

So if I understand correctly you have a phone socket which is served from wires before the NTE5.   I can therefore only re-iterate what Colin has already said and you should get your SP to ask BT to regularise the wiring at no cost to yourself.

[liknoj]

Many thanks, I will act on your recommendation.
Just to avoid any possibilty of embarrassment when the BT Engineer turns up, I am going to take up some carpet and a few floorboards to make sure the cabling is routed out of sight as it appears to be laid out now.
I will post the outcome once this issue is resolved.

[ColinS]

Why would you want to do that? I'm confused as to what you would be embarrassed about. I'm sure the engineer will have already seen a lot worse.
 
The engineer will regularise the existing wiring from the drop cable to the NTE5, most likely downstairs where you would like it.  You could then, completely legitimately, run an extension cable from 'your side' of the NTE5 upstairs using CW1308 to one or more LJUs, and use ADSL dongles as necessary.  Or am I missing something?

[HPsauce]

It's also not clear what your incoming wire is, i.e. overhead or underground, though it sounds like overhead.
If the length from your local pole is also old-style 2-core (as seems likely) then that too should/will be replaced with a better modern design.
I think that will usually be 2- or 4-core with strain relief.
My old wire was like lighting flex and they replaced that on arrival, saying it was "non-standard" before even bothering with anything else.

[liknoj]

Thanks everyone.

I have fully documented my wiring with photographs and the .doc file can be viewed on Google drive using this secure link;-

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B5uvA4M9YPYqVU0wdlRxbFo0QTg/edit?usp=sharing

Hopefully, all the details are reasonably clear here, though regarding one point raised, the house was re-connected to a new telegraph pole about 10 years ago and a twisted pair cable was used to re-supply to the house. The engineer evidently joined this to the old house cable (two core red and black) that remained on the outside wall as  shown.

[liknoj]

Because my cottage dates from ca. 1700 (solid stone walls, oak beams and wattle and daub walls and ceilings etc.), I prefer to do all intricate tasks myself since I am a careful DIY’er and a qualified though retired mechanical engineer. I believe this removes the risk of contractors causing structural damage as has happened in the past which though covered by contractor’s insurance, the mess and the restorations were major inconveniences.

Accordingly, I suggest:-

1.   Upstairs, pre-wire a new NTE5 box (RF filtered) with a front face insert, as supplied by Clarity. I have one spare.
2.   Use Cat5E cabling (just 1 metre) from this box to the router, I have plenty of cable.
3.   Pre-wire just 2 metres of Cat5E cable into a BT 80B RF3 Junction Box (3-way IDC to 3 way screw Connectors). I have one of these boxes spare. Ideally, this Cat5E cable needs to go through the same 18 inch deep hole in an internal stone wall as presently used by two ring main cables.
4.   Locate this box conveniently on the other side of this wall and immediately next to the old two core red and black cable which carries the drop wires signal into and through my house.
5.   Ask whatever engineer is subsequently needed to cut and hard wire this cable to the screw-in side of the 80B box, then test and approve.
6.   Relocate my BT answer unit upstairs, connect it to the telephone point on the NTE5 front face insert and use the wireless extensions for the two downstairs locations.

My new questions are:-

Is this acceptable technically and will it regularise my ASDL wiring such that I can expect some increase in speed and stability?
Is it probable that Open Reach will approve this setup or will they most likely insist on doing their own thing throughout?

[ColinS]

Ah, I understand now.

I would like to think that no reasonable engineer would object to what you propose, particularly as you will have already (and legally as you haven't touched anything) done a considerable amount of the work.  All that remains is, hopefully a new drop cable, and the removal of the existing rats nest. Good luck.

[liknoj]

Thank you for the prompt reply and support. Open Reach engineers seem friendly enough around here, particularly when I ask them "are you installing fibre then?" which is a good few years away yet to our out-in-the-countryside location. It also appears that Black Sheep is just too far away for this job assignment!
Whilst waiting for the Provider to Open Reach dialogue to conclude, I can undertake this project at a leisurely pace, but I will report the outcome once completed.

[Black Sheep]

Hi bud, got your PM just now.

I haven't fully digested your current installation lay-out, but cutting to the chase, no OR engineer (or Contactual staff) are ever going to refuse to connect up your proposed new installation method, so long as it is safe to do so, and of course meets our standards (which aren't too stringent, lets face it).

I personally, would be thrilled to arrive at your premises and be left just having to do the bare minimum. Not through laziness, more -so that it would be a 'snip' job, and in our current regime of 'Stat-based performance management', it would be one in the bag in double-quick time. 

[liknoj]

Thanks Blacksheep, very reassuring. TalkTalk, who are my provider, advise from their support office (presumably in India) that their own UK engineers can complete this work for me! Can you advise whether Open Reach do in fact sub-contract such work, or rather that TalkTalk are giving out misleading advice?

[Black Sheep]

Talk Talk do have their own in-house (and I use this term in the loosest sense) ..... 'engineers'. They, just like anyone else other than OR, are officially only allowed to work from the demarcation point (NTE5), onwards.

You mentioned earlier about doing the work yourself to minimise possible damage. I would definitely still consider this course of action, or at least try and employ a decent electrician to do the cable runs, as they will have a healthy knowledge of such activities.

[liknoj]

Thanks Blacksheep.
The job is as ready as I can make it.
All that is left is to cut the old dropwire and connect to a BT 80B RF3 box.
See here

On the other side of this box is a standard BT cable with white/blue and blue/white 0.5mm copper cables connected into a new NTE5 box next to my router.
Staying legal prevents me from undertaking this simple task!