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Author Topic: Trouble at t'mill  (Read 5314 times)

waltergmw

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Trouble at t'mill
« on: August 03, 2012, 12:44:11 PM »

Gentlefolk,

Some of you might be interested in this article:-

http://www.computing.co.uk/ctg/news/2196401/former-bt-cto-slams-uks-visionless-broadband-plans/page/1?WT.rss_a=former+bt+cto+slams+uk%27s+%27visionless%27+broadband+plans&WT.rss_f=

Then for a giggle look at the Ewhurst link quoted including the comments.

Kind regards,
Walter

PS It's now 12:44 on the second morning appointment wait and not a hint of any news from the headless chicken** purported to have been allocated the "repair job" which has only been open  since 7 July.

** Sorry BS !
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burakkucat

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Re: Trouble at t'mill
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2012, 06:16:22 PM »

How doest Walter correlate a headless chicken with a black sheep, b*cat ponders . . .  :lol:
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Black Sheep

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Re: Trouble at t'mill
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2012, 06:23:40 PM »

I have many animal guises ..... I've been known to be a 'cheeky monkey' at times, and a 'dozy duck' at others !!

But my greatest animal related accolade, was when I'd repaired a long-standing fault and overheard the EU liken me to the 'dogs gonads'.  ;) ;D ;D ;D

Hope my comrade-in-arms eventually turned up Walt ??  :)
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kitz

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Re: Trouble at t'mill
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2012, 01:05:40 AM »

Hmmm  couple of crazy things about that.

Quote

CTO & Head of Research British Telecom

Public Company; 10,001+ employees; BT.A; Telecommunications industry

April 1994 – November 2000 (6 years 8 months)

Starting in 1994 I built 1 1000 strong ($100M budget) operation in 4 years spanning a wide rage of technology, networks, terminals, systems and human activities. The unit contributed to the downsizing of BT from 242k to 110k people thro optical fibre deployment and changes in organisation and working practices.
Im sure getting rid of 132k employees is good for the economy. Well done that man for halving BTs workforce during the period he was with them.   

Quote
"The UK used to lead the computer games industry, not anymore – we lost the £3bn industry to Korea because we have no bandwidth or connectivity – so how much more do we want to lose?" he asked.

I dont believe that for one minute..  lack of bandwidth is NOT the cause of decline of the gaming industry...
Its more to do with the economy, brain drain, and larger (foreign) corporations swallowing up the UK companies, just like what has occurred in so many other sectors.  Entertainment, Film, Finance, Technology, Retail, Electronics you name it, whatever the sector theyve all been subjected to the same takeovers by the big names - usually foreign.
In fact BT seems to be one of the few major organisations that is still British :(


Quote
culture Ed Vaizey , speaking in an interview with BBC Radio 4's Today Programme, suggested that 2Mbit/s broadband would be sufficient for UK citizens and that they would not require faster speeds.


That is too ridiculous to even bother commenting on.
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asbokid

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Re: Trouble at t'mill
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2012, 01:34:14 AM »

The cost of laying fibre to the home is vast, in terms of manpower.   It's very labour intensive, and it's not a nice job. It's heavy ground-working, and it's costly re-instating metalled roads and pavements after the fibre has been laid.

Many a cable company has gone bust because of those costs, long before building a network with revenues that turned a profit. (Similar to the early railway pioneers).

When we lived in Liverpool, mid 90s, the local cable co went belly up. Forget its name, but it left half the streets dug up, including a huge hole right outside our gate!  Piles of tarmac everywhere, holes temporarily refilled with dirt.  It was a horrible mess and it was like that for years. No doubt the taxpayer (i.e. Liverpool City Council) eventually had to repair all the damage.

Britain was a pioneer in telecommunications. Hopefully it still is.  But it's not always best to be first.  Sometimes it's better to be last, so that you can learn by the mistakes made by others!   Service ducting is a huge mess in Britain.  In the low countries, most roads have channeled service ducting running alongside.  These make maintenance and upgrading so much easier.  It's horrific to see telco cabling still being laid bare in the dirt under a major road surface.  Sheesh! How primitive is that?!  All the services, not just telcos, need their practices dragging into the 21st century.

EDIT:

Just to add.  FTTH is all very nice, but who's going to fund the rollout?  Since BT is a publicly-quoted company with shareholders, the costs (with interest) have to be recouped within a reasonable time-frame.

I know it annoys people (which is why I say it!) but just maybe BT would be better off in public ownership again?   Where we can nurture it.   BlackSheep and other front-line engineers would become civil servants. Quite right too. Pin-striped suit for them all, bowler hats, etc!   Jokes aside, public ownership would also open up state funding for massive infrastructure projects like FTTH.   In the past (i.e. long before I was born - in the good old days before Maggie Thatcher seized power), public works programmes - the building of new hospitals, schools, electric works, water projects, were funded through public subscription - the issuance of government or municipal bonds. The public was happy to invest its savings in these projects in the knowledge that the money would benefit the whole community.    If the City can't or won't stump up the cash for FTTH rollout, then the public should get the chance to fund it.

Cheers, a
« Last Edit: August 04, 2012, 01:56:50 AM by asbokid »
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waltergmw

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Re: Trouble at t'mill
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2012, 09:16:07 AM »

@ BKK & BS,

I most certainly wouldn't attempt any correlation whatsoever !!!!

What I observe in the Surrey jungle is deeply concerning at many levels.

The nightmare of a quite disgraceful bodge job on a late Saturday with two drop wires substituting for overhead catenary cable with crossed pairs AND at least two EU's left without any service for weeks because of the auto-clearing mechanism.)
Pole inspections drastically reduced (since 1996) leaving this line demanding platform lifts for every visit in a difficult country lane, but still a bus route, and no automatic record of that condition.

Far more worrying is the supervision of the staff with an automated and unthinking allocation system.
It doesn't even correlate the jobs geographically.
The ridiculous micromanagement of the field staff who must be, but aren't, given sufficient freedom to use their best endeavours to engineer repairs properly.
They are even castigated for poor performance which inevitably produces more and more small sloppy bodges requiring re-work which is seemingly never done.
Any such temporary fixes are unrecorded as jobs are auto-cleared without question.
How would you like to be phoned after 10 stationary minutes in a traffic jam asking what you're doing?
How would you like to be told you have a 25 minute time limit to open a road pit, make it safe, do a gas check, and pump out several cubic metres of water but then told because you have a team of three you each have 8 concurrent minutes to do that job ? How do you, as a team, react to that situation ?
How would you like to leave serious duct damage un-repaired if, after hours of jetting, you manage to get a pull rope through ?
How would you like to be the expert in Devon hauled up to Surrey to fix a continuing pair quality test failure for a FTTC installation (on the third attempt) but then not given the job configuration details for the modem ?
How would you like to see subcontractors re-sleeving a PCP cabinet back to front ?
How would you like to see two subcontractors ramming heavy duty rods through a duct but doing serious damage to existing cables in the process ? (How is that damage recorded and then repaired (if ever) without a full excavation?)

Every time such mini-happenings are left, it is building up a total melt-down of the infrastructure with consequential disastrous effects on maintenance resource and cost increases.

Is there any wonder that many of the staff go into "work-to-rule mode" thus requiring yet more subcontractors "to clear the backlog" ?

I'm sure BS could elaborate a great deal but there would be little point in this forum.

Kind regards,
Walter
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Black Sheep

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Re: Trouble at t'mill
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2012, 01:50:05 PM »

 ;D Fancy becoming a CWU Representative, Walter ??  ;D

You are correct inyou observations and mootings. We engineers have been chanting this mantra for years, does anybody listen ??? One of the greatest asset an engineer can have, is local knowledge, this can save vasts ammounts of time an money. So, 'they' have now implemented a system that sees cross-patching' becoming the norm. Absolute bloody madness.

As you say Walt, there's a lot more but there is really no point going in to it. :)
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burakkucat

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Re: Trouble at t'mill
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2012, 07:55:06 PM »

@Walter,

Having considered the photographs, I can see that Liv Garfield has a pretty face. However, in my opinion, it is time she and all other mangers within the Openreach structure were given the option to (1) serve as equals to the "foot-soldiers" for a year (who try their best to get things done), working under the same downright stupid management rules or (2) be dismissed.  >:(

No doubt the current "pig's ear" of a set-up is still present in Peaslake Road and you had another wasted day in the Surrey countryside?  :-X
« Last Edit: August 04, 2012, 07:58:07 PM by burakkucat »
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waltergmw

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Re: Trouble at t'mill
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2012, 09:42:05 PM »

Gentlefolk,

I am relieved, but certainly not pleased, to report that after 28 days without a service totally caused by bad workmanship probably bordering upon disciplinary investigation, this service has now been restored. I did on this occasion instruct BT to enter via the front gates and ring the front doorbell just in case yesterday's engineer made a repeat visit. This debacle has produced three separate tasks to rectify the disgraceful workmanship. We are somewhat apprehensive in the knowledge that within the next year or so the entire exercise must be repeated to remove the two non-standard drop wires and the polythene bag joint and replace it with overhead catenary cable and the appropriate joint enclosure. Rest assured we will keep an eagle eye on these proceedings and prevent the departure of the implementation team before all 6 services are proven to be fully working including reasonable quality broadband. We also hope that the job originator is made aware of one pole dating back to 1945.

There will be more detail on the Ewhurst web site probably tomorrow.

Kind regards,
Walter
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waltergmw

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Re: Trouble at t'mill
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2012, 07:43:44 AM »

Gentlefolk,

This entry I hope records the end of the temporary lash-up fiasco.
Quite naturally we await with some trepidation of a repeat performance once the correct 20 pr catenary cable is installed hopefully at the earliest possible moment.
As a precursor it seems sensible to complete pole inspections which have expired long since.

http://www.ewhurst-broadband.org.uk/?p=2751&cpage=1#comment-347

I would be very grateful if anyone has any constructive ideas how DCMS, BDUK, Ofcom and politicians at all levels can be persuaded to abandon current "Superfast Broadband" activities which are quite clearly not fit for purpose.

Kind regards,
Walter

EDIT

PS I thought you might like to see the results.

This could be called a BT Openreach ON (telephone) LINE database record:-

http://www.scribd.com/doc/102156213/BT-O-on-Telephone-Line-Datbase-Entry

Any guesses how long this will have to last ?

http://www.scribd.com/doc/102156542/Finished-Masterpiece-of-Peaslake-Road



« Last Edit: August 06, 2012, 04:21:01 PM by waltergmw »
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smurfuk

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Re: Trouble at t'mill
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2012, 04:41:13 PM »

The problem is that some of us have experiences that go the other way: of BT repairs that have actually vastly improved the local network (from a state in my case where even the analogue phone service only worked 50% of the time) to where I now always significantly exceed the projected VDSL2 speed for my distance from the cab and the local network doesn't fail (though the same can't quite be said for the Wholesale side); and other utilities where their work programme is carried out with incredible efficiency, effort, effectiveness and lack of disruption. And I'm in the south-east of the UK. So who is right?
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Black Sheep

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Re: Trouble at t'mill
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2012, 06:37:49 PM »

You are of course, smurfuk.  ;) ;D ;D

Walters just a grumpy old man. :lol: :lol: But we love him. ;D
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waltergmw

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Re: Trouble at t'mill
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2012, 10:19:16 AM »

Perhaps in my dotage I have become a little wiser !

I do not claim that everything is bad and there is no right or wrong with carefully recorded happenings.
I have observed a 500 pr E side replacement for a 400 pr proceed without too much disruption.
I have also observed contractors mounting a re-sleeve cabinet back to front and another group ramming heavy duty rods through a blocked duct damaging the existing cables.

Perhaps we should rely upon the judgement of Peter Cochrane, the former BT CTO who told the HoL committee that FTTC is one of the worst mistakes humanity has made.
In case you suggest he's also in his dotage just look at what he has achieved in Jersey with FTTP everywhere for business and now coming to private homes.

Kind regards,
Walter

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Black Sheep

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Re: Trouble at t'mill
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2012, 02:38:29 PM »

In fairness though, Walter, providing FTTP in Jersey will be a relatively simple task compared to BT's mammoth challenge. A 'Cut & Paste' ..............  Jersey Telecom is in a good position to roll-out fibre, since in the 1980's following widespread storm damage it laid ducting across the island up to every home, and this allows for easier blowing of fibre in tubes.

Believe me, if it were financially viable, BT would blow-in Fibre to every premises. It's cheaper to buy than copper cable, virtually zero maintanance costs, and would be very much a 'hands off' network.

Obviously, with that in mind, BT have decided full roll-out of FTTP would be financial suicide. They have, in its place, decide upon a FTTP-D (on demand) service, that is currently under trial as we speak.

We all need to remind ourselves that the vast majority of EU's are happy with their service and not particulalrly 'speed hungry', like the obsessed amongst us. I'm not saying it's wrong to want greater speeds, but the average punter wont be overly concrened about FTTP.
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waltergmw

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Re: Trouble at t'mill
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2012, 03:01:35 PM »

@ BS,

I do appreciate most of the points you make, but I can assure you those have nots (mainly on D side lines up to 7 km now and won't be allowed a FTTC at over around 1.5 km PCP to premise) and very unhappy bunnies.

In areas where the maintenance costs are rocketing, there must surely come a time when somehow the nation just has to afford FTTP. You could argue that it would be far better to start that process now for the unfortunates, especially on no-duct cables.

I must admit though, I'm quite happy with my VM service !

Kind regards,
Walter
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