Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => FTTC and FTTP Issues => Topic started by: Dave2150 on February 08, 2016, 05:47:28 PM
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Hi there,
For the last two and a half years, I've been on Sky's 40/10 FTTC package, where I enjoyed a 33Mbit download connection speed. I was using a Kelly Engineer supplied HG612 modem and the Sky Hub (SR101).
I moved from Sky to BT Infinity option 1 on the 27th of January. They supplied a BT Home Hub 5B. I was excited at the chance to remove one device and only have the combined modem/router in order to supply my connection. I was aware this would prevent me from viewing my detailed line stats, but as my connection was so stable/reliable I didn't feel the need to constantly monitor them. I'd literally sync at 33Mbit down 7Mbit every single day, with very little deviation.
The day my BT service went live, I lost sync with my Sky equipment and so disconnected the HG612 modem/SR101 router and proceeded to connect my HH5B. I did a speed test and got the following: http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/5046140366 (http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/5046140366). I then did some searching and found that migrating to another FTTC service would completely reset my DLM - so I assume at this point my line was experiencing many errors, dropped packets etc.
The next day speeds settled, and I found that I had a 27mbit downstream sync. Speed tests were showing my full connection speed. I was also heavily interleaved, resulting in pings of 40ms to bbc, for example.
A few days later the interleaving was reduced further, resulting in pings of 21ms to bbc.co.uk, which is very similar to my pings on Sky.
I'm wondering why my connection speeds haven't returned to what they were with my Sky service? It's been almost two weeks now, and my line hasn't resynced itself since the first day.
I decided to reconnect my HG612 around a week ago, in order to view the detailed line stats. I've now setup monitoring on the 'Mydslwebstats' service (excellent service btw!), where my data can be found under the username 'Dave2150'.
I'd appreciate any feedback as to why my connection seems to have been locked to 27mbit with a 8DB SNR. The attainable rates look identical to what I was getting for the last few years with Sky.
I'd also appreciate any feedback about the general 'health' of my line. My next door neighbour ordered a FTTC service the same time as I did, when our cabinet (ECI) went live in 2013. He enjoys a 55mbit downstream/11mbit upstream connection, which I always found odd, as we're literally a few meters apart, and are both around 600M from our cabinet (following the cables along the road). Both houses were part of a small Cul-de-sac built around 10 years ago. We have underground ducting from our houses for around 30M, where the cables emerge from the ground then climb a BT pole (erected the same time as the houses were built) which then feeds onto a combined electricity/BT pole which also feeds the older houses in the area, so I assumed our line routing would be very similar?
Many thanks for any help :)
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Do you have any stats from when you were on a Sky connection for comparison purposes?
Your current DS Interleaving depth is quite high at 877, so following a period of (hopefully) continued stability, DLM may relent & reduce Interleaving depth & thus increase sync speeds.
Your current sync speed does appear to be currently capped at one of the familiar speeds (27.4 Mbps).
Regards your other stats, they actually suggest that you could be more than 600m from the cabinet as they look rather similar to mine.
However, I am 1100m or so from my cabinet.
I've attached my snapshot montage for reference.
As you are also using HG612 Modem Stats, could you attach yours for comparison?
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Thanks for the reply.
I've attached my current stats below. I did have my previous line stats on Sky uploaded on Imgur, but the links have sadly expired now :( I'm looking through some data backups, perhaps I'll be able to find them.
I'm not sure I fully understand you - does having a interleaving value of 877 mean that this is "using" up potential download sync speed?
When I was on Sky, I had very similar pings to what I have now, whilst having the usual 33mbit sync. I'm hoping for my connection to return to how it was, how likely do you think this will happen?
Our stats do look quite similar, though I notice my seems to load bits at a little higher frequency tone than yours does.
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I'm not sure I fully understand you - does having a interleaving value of 877 mean that this is "using" up potential download sync speed?
Yes it does.
When Interleaving is on, it also artificially increases attainable rates as well as decreasing actual sync speeds.
Our stats do look quite similar, though I notice my seems to load bits at a little higher frequency tone than yours does.
That's because your attenuation (Hlog graph), QLN & thus SNR are a little better than mine.
It's odd that your neighbour achieves better speeds though.
Maybe your line goes a longer way round the cul-de-sac, although your description doesn't actually confirm that.
Is your modem connected directly at the master socket's SSFP or through a microfilter?
Also, do you have an internal extension cable from the master socket to the modem?
I did try a 'different' 2m patch lead from my master socket to my modem at one point & achieved a sync speed that was quite a bit lower than when using the standard flat patch lead that came with the modem.
Reinstating the original patch lead restored the higher sync speed.
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I'm not sure I fully understand you - does having a interleaving value of 877 mean that this is "using" up potential download sync speed?
Yes it does.
When Interleaving is on, it also artificially increases attainable rates as well as decreasing actual sync speeds.
Our stats do look quite similar, though I notice my seems to load bits at a little higher frequency tone than yours does.
That's because your attenuation (Hlog graph), QLN & thus SNR are a little better than mine.
It's odd that your neighbour achieves better speeds though.
Maybe your line goes a longer way round the cul-de-sac, although your description doesn't actually confirm that.
Is your modem connected directly at the master socket's SSFP or through a microfilter?
Also, do you have an internal extension cable from the master socket to the modem?
I did try a 'different' 2m patch lead from my master socket to my modem at one point & achieved a sync speed that was quite a bit lower than when using the standard flat patch lead that came with the modem.
Reinstating the original patch lead restored the higher sync speed.
My modem is connected via a 1M twisted pair RJ11 to a MK3 VDSL SSFP directly to the mastersocket. The master socket is located right where the underground ducting conduit enters my house. Behind my mastersocket, there is a thick black cable which seems to contain 4 pairs of wires, one pair of which is wired to the mastersocket. The other 3 pairs (spare pairs I assume?) are folded up in the cavity behind the master socket. I have two extensions which are wired up to the front part of the NTE.
My neighbours line definitely takes the same route as mine to the second BT pole - as there's one one cable bundle emerging from the ducting at the top of the street going up the BT pole. I suppose the pair that mine connects to from there must take a longer route back to the cabinet, or perhaps his line is copper. When we originally had our telephone line connected 10 years ago, the engineer said the area around here was mostly aluminium cables, so most likely mine is aluminium.
I don't suppose there's a method of getting BT to try and swap a customer onto a copper pair, instead of an aluminium one? Assuming there are some copper pairs spare.
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My neighbours line definitely takes the same route as mine to the second BT pole - as there's one one cable bundle emerging from the ducting at the top of the street going up the BT pole. I suppose the pair that mine connects to from there must take a longer route back to the cabinet, or perhaps his line is copper. When we originally had our telephone line connected 10 years ago, the engineer said the area around here was mostly aluminium cables, so most likely mine is aluminium.
I don't suppose there's a method of getting BT to try and swap a customer onto a copper pair, instead of an aluminium one? Assuming there are some copper pairs spare.
Had terrible problems here with continue dropped connections, & low speed due to being on aluminium cable,I was getting about 30Mb, which dropped to 14Mb sometimes lower, compared to 70Mb for neighbour, I made myself unpopular complaining to CEO's BT & OR, after many months of complaining,a little bit of network rearrangement was agreed & I was moved over to copper & now getting 70/17. :clap:
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@Kiab - good result!
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Dave, I had a quick look.
Your snrm drops to around 6db at night, so I expect if you were to manually resync during the day you would sync higher, so thats a thing I would try. It doesnt look like its due to banding.
Regarding your neighbour its the lottery of xDSL, The most likely reason your neighbour has higher speeds is they are suffering less crosstalk interference, but there is also a possibility you have some kind of fault such as a poor joint somewhere.
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My neighbours line definitely takes the same route as mine to the second BT pole - as there's one one cable bundle emerging from the ducting at the top of the street going up the BT pole. I suppose the pair that mine connects to from there must take a longer route back to the cabinet, or perhaps his line is copper. When we originally had our telephone line connected 10 years ago, the engineer said the area around here was mostly aluminium cables, so most likely mine is aluminium.
I don't suppose there's a method of getting BT to try and swap a customer onto a copper pair, instead of an aluminium one? Assuming there are some copper pairs spare.
Had terrible problems here with continue dropped connections, & low speed due to being on aluminium cable,I was getting about 30Mb, which dropped to 14Mb sometimes lower, compared to 70Mb for neighbour, I made myself unpopular complaining to CEO's BT & OR, after many months of complaining,a little bit of network rearrangement was agreed & I was moved over to copper & now getting 70/17. :clap:
This sounds encouraging, perhaps I'll try emailing the CEO also :)
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Dave, I had a quick look.
Your snrm drops to around 6db at night, so I expect if you were to manually resync during the day you would sync higher, so thats a thing I would try. It doesnt look like its due to banding.
Regarding your neighbour its the lottery of xDSL, The most likely reason your neighbour has higher speeds is they are suffering less crosstalk interference, but there is also a possibility you have some kind of fault such as a poor joint somewhere.
Looking at my graphs on mydslwebstats, my downstream SNR varies only between 8.4DB and 8.1DB SNR. It hasn't been below 8.1DB yet on the graphs. Upstream SNR seems stuck at 6DB.
I resynced today at 15:00, still locked at 27Mbit. Attainable data rate is now 38272 Kbps and SNR is now 8.8DB - note that yesterday it was extremely windy and raining heavily all day (South Wales), so my stats were slightly worse than usual.
I know for a fact that my line was completely stable at 6DB SNR on the downstream, which allowed me to sync at 33mbit. I'm just concerned that my line seems to now be locked or 'banded' at 27mbit, despite clearly having enough margin to do more, and having successfully done so for over 2 years when I was with Sky.
If I'd known my line's DLM would be completely reset and that I'd loose 5mbit sync speed, I'd have stuck with Sky. Perhaps I can use this line in my argument with BT, if DLM doesn't unlock my line within the next week?
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Dave2150: I started with Sir Michael Rake, Chairman of BT, very good, had phone called within 24 hours from him, followed by a letter, but could only do so much, then I was passed to OR former CEO Joe Garner, he really got things moving, appointed someone to look at my case in detail.
It took several weeks, & a broadband technician appeared,it took another 5 engineers to sort the problem,No 4 moved my line from front pole to to a rear pole,put a new drop to the house, but it didn't solve the low speed & dropped connections, No5 turned up & the connection went down & never recovered while he was testing line, he then spent 2 days resoliving all the problems & faults found, also replace cable along whole length of lane,& did the network rearrangement moving me from aluminum to copper.
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I'm not decrying KIAB's persistence and the obvious end result. I just want to add a precautionary note, as I feel KIAB's experience is unusual, and is more likely down to a completely faulty length of aluminium cable that was eventually replaced for copper cable.
Points of note are, we will not change out legacy Aluminium cable if it tests electrically sound and/or has spare capacity with which to migrate a faulty circuit over to. Even if a faulty length has been identified, our remit is to pin-point the exact location of the faults and have just that section replaced (UG box-to-box).
Every scenario is different, KIAB's will certainly be different to yours .............. therefore yes, by all means complain as high as you wish to go up the OR ladder, but don't expect after 5,10,15 .... visits, that a big truck will turn up with 2km of shiny 0.9 Cu cable.
As I said, each and every situation is different and will require different fixes to resolve the situation. Don't shoot the messenger, just putting it out there because there WILL be people reading this, that think a quick letter to Mr Rake will solve all their problems (A SNR fluctuation of 0.02dB, or a loss of connection once ...... 13 months ago). #pedantalert ;) ;D
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I'm not decrying KIAB's persistence and the obvious end result. I just want to add a precautionary note, as I feel KIAB's experience is unusual, and is more likely down to a completely faulty length of aluminium cable that was eventually replaced for copper cable.
Points of note are, we will not change out legacy Aluminium cable if it tests electrically sound and/or has spare capacity with which to migrate a faulty circuit over to. Even if a faulty length has been identified, our remit is to pin-point the exact location of the faults and have just that section replaced (UG box-to-box).
Every scenario is different, KIAB's will certainly be different to yours .............. therefore yes, by all means complain as high as you wish to go up the OR ladder, but don't expect after 5,10,15 .... visits, that a big truck will turn up with 2km of shiny 0.9 Cu cable.
As I said, each and every situation is different and will require different fixes to resolve the situation. Don't shoot the messenger, just putting it out there because there WILL be people reading this, that think a quick letter to Mr Rake will solve all their problems (A SNR fluctuation of 0.02dB, or a loss of connection once ...... 13 months ago). #pedantalert ;) ;D
I understand it's unlikely to happen at all, since (unfortunately) the line is perfectly sound on the telephone side of things. Plus I've been happy with connection since it was installed in July 2013.
I'm simply a bit dissapointed/frustrated that a simple change from Sky to BT would result in this persistant speed capping, which has lost me 5Mbit downstream sync. As I said previously, if I'd have known this would have happened, I would have remained with Sky.
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I'm not decrying KIAB's persistence and the obvious end result. I just want to add a precautionary note, as I feel KIAB's experience is unusual, and is more likely down to a completely faulty length of aluminium cable that was eventually replaced for copper cable.
Points of note are, we will not change out legacy Aluminium cable if it tests electrically sound and/or has spare capacity with which to migrate a faulty circuit over to. Even if a faulty length has been identified, our remit is to pin-point the exact location of the faults and have just that section replaced (UG box-to-box).
Every scenario is different, KIAB's will certainly be different to yours .............. therefore yes, by all means complain as high as you wish to go up the OR ladder, but don't expect after 5,10,15 .... visits, that a big truck will turn up with 2km of shiny 0.9 Cu cable.
As I said, each and every situation is different and will require different fixes to resolve the situation. Don't shoot the messenger, just putting it out there because there WILL be people reading this, that think a quick letter to Mr Rake will solve all their problems (A SNR fluctuation of 0.02dB, or a loss of connection once ...... 13 months ago). #pedantalert ;) ;D
Quite agree BS, penning a letter to Mr Rake isn't a solution to everyone's problem, & every problem has a different solution, but when I moved here 5 years ago, BT Checker quoted a fairly good figure around 60-65Mb, but in reality it was way out only got 30Mb & this gradually decreased to 20Mb or less.
Then what rattled my cage was a neighbour a short distance away got put on the rear pole, despite spare pairs available on front pole, both poles use same cab.
As far as I know they never replaced the aluminum cable up the High Street,despite pavement being marked up by OR, but engineer No5 found a copper cable with a spare pair in same duct. :o
It took about 12 months of complaining to get a result, which could have been avoided, if someone had read engineer No2 report & actioned his recommendation to replace a 400-500mtr section of aluminum cable.
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You absolutely got a great result, and quite lucky that there was also a Copper cable running through to the same UG box, and same UG joint as your DP. The chances of that happening are quite low.
This is not meant as derogatory in any way, but you've more chance of joining Tim Peake than getting 400-500mtrs of cable replacing. As mooted, we have to get it down to as small a distance as possible for the 'Planners' to go ahead with the cable renewal. If the faults are in a 40mtr section, there's no point in renewing the whole 500mtrs.
On the odd-occasion, and usually on 1970/80's built UG (Armoured cable) fed estates, we do get faults in multiple places along the cable length, and the whole shebang will need renewing .............. but this is as rare as hen's teeth.
My input was really for Dave (and other folk who may be unawares), that a lot of time could be spent for no return on a loss of 6Meg after transferring ISP's. I understand Dave's frustration, just didn't want his hopes built up. ;) :) :)
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My input was really for Dave (and other folk who may be unawares), that a lot of time could be spent for no return on a loss of 6Meg after transferring ISP's. I understand Dave's frustration, just didn't want his hopes built up. ;) :) :)
Oh, my complaint about Aluminium wasn't about the 5-6Mbit of sync I lost, following my migration from Sky to BT. This is simply down to DLM capping my line at 27Mbit, I'm simply waiting for it to return to it's usual value on my line.
My complaint about Aluminium stems from the fact that my next door neighbour, who's house shares the same ducting as mine, gets a much higher sync. Both houses have copper lines underground to the second BT pole (as this infrastructure was built 10 years ago with the houses) but from there his line is either copper all the way to the cabinet, or following a much shorter route to the cabinet. One of the two.
At the moment my main aim is to determine why DLM hasn't relaxed my line to a 6DB noise margin for the downstream.
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How many blocks are at the top of the pole that feeds yours and your neighbours premises ?? If there are two different blocks, there's a chance that one could be copper cable and the other ali ?? This would only usually be what we call the 'Tail' ..... ie: from the pole-top block to the underground box. From here it would usually pick up the same 'feed' cable provoding service to the other pole-top block.
Of course, the scenario could play out where there is no spare capacity in the original 'feed' cable to supply further 'pairs', and therefore a totally new cable would have to be provided.
However, there is no way of knowing without either physically looking at the cable node, or by viewing the duct/cable prints.
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How many blocks are at the top of the pole that feeds yours and your neighbours premises ?? If there are two different blocks, there's a chance that one could be copper cable and the other ali ?? This would only usually be what we call the 'Tail' ..... ie: from the pole-top block to the underground box. From here it would usually pick up the same 'feed' cable provoding service to the other pole-top block.
Of course, the scenario could play out where there is no spare capacity in the original 'feed' cable to supply further 'pairs', and therefore a totally new cable would have to be provided.
However, there is no way of knowing without either physically looking at the cable node, or by viewing the duct/cable prints.
The (7) houses all had underground ducting installed at the time the houses were constructed (10 years ago, so all copper) . A new BT pole was erected at the top of the street. The underground ducts that connect all 7 houses emerge at this bt pole. From there, there is a single cable bundle (looks an inch thick) that travels 20M or so to an extremely old Ivy covered shared electricity/telephone cable pole. From here there are a massive number of BT cables going in all directions, so I have no idea which direction my cable is going in.
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Still capped at 27398Kbps - despite the attainable being 38448Kbps.........
I've read that this speed 'banding' seems to be a permanent feature for some users. Does anyone have any experience of getting it reset? My SNR doesn't vary too much, syncs at 8.8DB during the day and drops to 8.0/8.1 in the evenings.
Considering the fact that my line was stable at 6DB and was able to sync at 33, 34mbit with Sky - I feel it's reasonable to request a DLM reset, or just for the speed banding to be removed.
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FWIW, I'm currently remotely monitoring another connection where speeds are capped.
This connection has exhibited very few errors during the period I've been monitoring it & it has quite high SNRM levels, which would normally allow higher sync speeds.
It was capped at these speeds until the connection resynced & had G.INP applied (Huawei DSLAM):-
Max: Upstream rate = 7613 Kbps, Downstream rate = 39624 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 6000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 27398 Kbps
Following the resync, these were the speeds:-
Max: Upstream rate = 7337 Kbps, Downstream rate = 42876 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 6000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 27400 Kbps
Here's the pbParams data:-
xdslcmd info --pbParams
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 1
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 7337 Kbps, Downstream rate = 42876 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 6000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 27400 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (7,32) (871,1205) (1972,2782)
DS: (33,859) (1216,1961) (2793,3959)
Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan
US: (7,32) (871,1205)
DS: (33,859) (1216,1961)
VDSL Port Details Upstream Downstream
Attainable Net Data Rate: 7337 kbps 42876 kbps
Actual Aggregate Tx Power: 2.3 dBm 11.2 dBm
=========================================================================================
VDSL Band Status U0 U1 U2 U3 U4 D1 D2 D3
Line Attenuation(dB): 8.0 44.7 N/A N/A N/A 20.2 56.4 86.3
Signal Attenuation(dB): 8.0 44.1 N/A N/A N/A 22.4 56.0 N/A
SNR Margin(dB): 15.3 15.3 N/A N/A N/A 14.6 14.6 N/A
TX Power(dBm): -8.9 1.8 N/A N/A N/A 8.8 7.6 N/A
The speeds had improved in steps following rearrangement of some user-side cabling that was causing issues, but as we don't have a valid reason to request a DLM reset, we'll just have to wait & see if DLM eventually relents.
I suspect you'll have to also do the same.
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Its a good point in there ... A user fixing a wiring issue in user-owned wiring is just as valid a reason for a DLM reset as an Openreach engineer fixing openreach-owned wiring.
Does this become inadvertent discrimination to a homeowner from installing and maintaining his own wiring? An anticompetitive measure?
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I think you just gave william an idea :p
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Update, contacted BT via live chat support, engineer booked for Tuesday the 19th!
Presumably the engineer will simply make the call to reset my DLM after he has "checked the cabinet".
Here's a screenshot of the livechat for anyone interested (edited out personal info as well as the agent's Surname)
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FTFzegnD.png&hash=7a9597bc821e2e6b169d9c30cb340c2f0e658476)
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Presumably as he has called an engineer, the tools have detected a line fault which the engineer will be tasked to fix. When he's fixed the fault, he may then request a DLM reset.
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Presumably as he has called an engineer, the tools have detected a line fault which the engineer will be tasked to fix. When he's fixed the fault, he may then request a DLM reset.
I doubt the tools detected any line faults, since my voice line is working perfectly as is my VDSL (same line). Perhaps the tools detected a cabinet problem, though it seems unlikely to me.
I really think he just understands that this is the only way to remove the DLM banding - though I'd like to see the reason he entered for the engineer visit, as from what I understand they are not allowed to call out an engineer for just a DLM reset.
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It'll certainly be interesting to see what happens, thank god I'm getting unbanded on Monday, I might have had to use this "trick" otherwise!
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The BT engineer came today as planned.
First he tried his handheld modem/test equipment in my SSFP, but this failed to sync. I suggested it might be because it's an ECI cabinet and has G.INP active, he wasn't sure. I showed him the current/max attainable sync and SNR etc on my laptop, he seemed amazed I could access such data.
After 20 minutes of trying to sync with his equipment, he phoned HQ to try get a reset done. He was on loudspeaker so I was able to listen in. The person on the other end immediately confirmed I was banded but was extremely reluctant to want to remove said banding. He mentioned to the engineer that his equipment should have an option for him to do a reset himself - the engineer was unaware of this and didn't seem to accept it was possible. A heated debate commenced, was quite interesting to hear internal communication between engineers.
At the end of the phonecall, he said to me that he was going to visit the cabinet to do the reset, since the person he called didn't want to help. He said he'd return soon. 5 minutes later I notice my modem loose sync, then resync unbanded :D Back to my usual 33mbit that I had with Sky, 6DB SNR. Once G.INP reactivates I hope the sync will manage 35-36mbit.
New line stats:
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FPoPiiBv.png&hash=185fd1a440602a5979e11e685bb8150f880e996b)
Fingers crossed that G.INP activates on my line before DLM decides to band it again! Current ES are quite high - when I was on G.INP these were completely eliminated for me, and max attainable went up to 38mbit.
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IP profile hasn't updated yet, assuming this will take a few hours to kick in?
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IP profile hasn't updated yet, assuming this will take a few hours to kick in?
If the modem and router are separate from each other you could turn off/on the router for a few minutes to initiate a new PPPOE session that should change the IP profile.
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IP profile hasn't updated yet, assuming this will take a few hours to kick in?
If the modem and router are separate from each other you could turn off/on the router for a few minutes to initiate a new PPPOE session that should change the IP profile.
That did the trick, thanks for the information :)
Glad I didn't have to power cycle the modem, leaving that well alone in the hope that G.INP gets activated before I get banded again! I doubt DLM likes the amount of errors on my line without it.
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Your on the ECI cabinet how bad are those errored seconds since the enginner DLM reset ?
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Your on the ECI cabinet how bad are those errored seconds since the enginner DLM reset ?
Pretty bad:
Total time = 8 hours 55 min 34 sec
FEC: 257975 94
CRC: 1654 24
ES: 83 22
My line used to have a very high interleaving depth (800 or so I believe) prior to having G.INP enabled, so I expect DLM to increase the interleaving rather quickly.
I just hope I don't get banded before G.INP comes back, since once your banded that seems to be it, no matter how much of an improvement G.INP makes (in my case, it makes a massive difference, gaining 4-5DB SNR and completely eliminating DS ES).
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you can do what les does/did.
either turn off the modem before it hits the daily ES limit (e.g. during sleep/work).
or sync at a modem enforced capped speed to lower the ES rate.
By the way 80 ES in 8 hours is fine. Yes it seems crazy compared to g.inp levels but its fine for fast path and DLM.
But I notice you posting FEC on the downstream, so you currently interleaved now or are those old stats?
--edit--
Looks like you posted older ES stats.
Today you approaching 2k ES, turn it off overnight. Asuming you on the speed DLM profile then DLM shouldnt intervene.
--edit2--
I see you have some DS FEC logged even tho you have fast path settings, seems odd to me. But regardless turn the line off overnight.
Am I checking the right line on MDWS? seems we have 2 daves's here.
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Am I checking the right line on MDWS? seems we have 2 daves's here.
I think you maybe looking at Daveesh1 stats as he has 2K of errored seconds but Dave2150
does not appear on MDWS
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you can do what les does/did.
either turn off the modem before it hits the daily ES limit (e.g. during sleep/work).
or sync at a modem enforced capped speed to lower the ES rate.
By the way 80 ES in 8 hours is fine. Yes it seems crazy compared to g.inp levels but its fine for fast path and DLM.
But I notice you posting FEC on the downstream, so you currently interleaved now or are those old stats?
--edit--
Looks like you posted older ES stats.
Today you approaching 2k ES, turn it off overnight. Asuming you on the speed DLM profile then DLM shouldnt intervene.
--edit2--
I see you have some DS FEC logged even tho you have fast path settings, seems odd to me. But regardless turn the line off overnight.
Am I checking the right line on MDWS? seems we have 2 daves's here.
I'm not currently uploading to MDWS.
Here are my current stats:
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FaUg8p6e.png&hash=32fda0b4b06cba57ab6d46ef34ca8896c4e4f0a1)
DSL Stats is reporting 7.73 ES per hour on average. Do you think that's high enough to warrant turning off my modem at night? I'd thought to keep it on 24/7 until G.INP gets reactivated.
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Ok so you interleaved DS, those ES are way too low to worry about, they may be stopping you go green but not enough to go red.
For comparison I am getting on avg over 50 ES per hour.
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Hope you mind me adding my own stats into this thread you are getting 37000Kbps on the attainable and a sync rate of 33000 kbps the same as myself but I am only getting 34000 kbps on the attainable.
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Your DS interleaving depth of 4 is significantly lower than Dave's.
TBH, it's the lowest value other than 1 that I have seen on a VDSL2 connection.
When interleaving depths are higher, we do tend to see 'artificially' higher Attainable rates.
Also, your attainable rates will vary as SNRM varies on your connection (by as much as 2dB difference between peak & lowest values if memory serves correctly).
How much do your attainable rates vary each day?
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The attainable will drift by 2 Mbps over 24 hours
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I need to correct my previous post I am getting closer to 11 ES/hour not 50 sorry. But still shows 8 ES/hour is fine.
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Excellent news - it's now been two days since my DLM reset (which removed my banding and G.INP) - I'm pleased to confirm that G.INP has been re-activated at some point today!
Current download sync speed = 35938kbps! Highest I've ever had on my line ;D
I'm extremely happy with this result, as I explained earlier in the thread, my line had been banded at 27400kbps ever since migrating from Sky FTTC to BT retail. Note it was banded even after G.INP was enabled on my line many weeks ago, which meant my line was running at 10-11DB SNR. DLM just didn't want to remove the banding.
Here are my current stats:
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FTLyzyK4.png&hash=7efd0f7e1cd90c7c629e02f58cf5677cee35cf2f)
Many thanks to all helped me reach this result, as you can probably tell I'm rather chuffed it all worked out well in the end :)
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Hope you mind me adding my own stats into this thread you are getting 37000Kbps on the attainable and a sync rate of 33000 kbps the same as myself but I am only getting 34000 kbps on the attainable.
Don't mind at all. I don't understand why your line runs a few Mbit slower than mine, when your DS attenuation is lower than mine. Surely you should have a higher sync than me?
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Update, seems my line continues to get better and better!
Currently synced at an all time record of 36117Kbps! Not bad for my 26.7dB attenuation aluminium line!
I'm hoping the 3dB profile gets rolled out nationwide soon, my line is incredibly stable with G.INP, literally no ES's on the downstream!
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FsfLwq5G.png&hash=ace0068e41fa845035632200eaa0cba1ae436c9e)
Slightly offtopic, but I wonder if anyone could explain to me how to correctly read my Hlog? It appears to be a stable curve for most tones, but upon reaching tone 2750, there are many spikes.
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Looks good for a 4 band users like myself :) don't know if have mentioned your local loop length on the forums before
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Looks good for a 4 band users like myself :) don't know if have mentioned your local loop length on the forums before
The 'boost' engineer that reset my DLM last week said it was 450M, but almost all aluminium. He did look for other pairs that he could swap me too, but we're pretty much at full capacity/utilization here it seems.
The engineer said it was just a matter of time waiting for it to be replaced, though I'm not getting too excited, knowing my luck these aluminium lines around here will outlast me!
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Slightly offtopic, but I wonder if anyone could explain to me how to correctly read my Hlog? It appears to be a stable curve for most tones, but upon reaching tone 2750, there are many spikes.
Reading it from low frequency to high frequency (left to right), you have usable US (green), DS (red), US (green) and DS (red). At the frequencies of the next US band, the signal is so degraded (due to line length, conductor material (aluminium), etc) that it drops to the "no signal present" value (-94.6 dB). At the following DS band (even higher frequencies) there is an indication of some signal "getting through" but it is essentially unusable (the "ragged tail" of the plot).
I would also like to suggest that you consider the the bands in the "Discovery Phase" and in the "Medley Phase" (a.k.a. "showtime") of your pbParams information.
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Slightly offtopic, but I wonder if anyone could explain to me how to correctly read my Hlog? It appears to be a stable curve for most tones, but upon reaching tone 2750, there are many spikes.
Reading it from low frequency to high frequency (left to right), you have usable US (green), DS (red), US (green) and DS (red). At the frequencies of the next US band, the signal is so degraded (due to line length, conductor material (aluminium), etc) that it drops to the "no signal present" value (-94.6 dB). At the following DS band (even higher frequencies) there is an indication of some signal "getting through" but it is essentially unusable (the "ragged tail" of the plot).
I would also like to suggest that you consider the the bands in the "Discovery Phase" and in the "Medley Phase" (a.k.a. "showtime") of your pbParams information.
Thanks for this wonderful explanation :)
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Hi there,
My line synced a little higher again today! Now syncing at 36,194Kbps.
I'm a little confused with my speed tests - I'm only getting 33.85Mbps -
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.speedtest.net%2Fresult%2F5280333896.png&hash=a74ef5daa1c4bc9dc792a7b73699ec854156432c)
IP profile result:
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FgcXxPXm.png&hash=f1defbd84fce0f8325fdf5b2d97e9999bb86187c)
Am I right in thinking this result is a little low, considering my sync rate and that I have no interleaving on my line (G.INP active).
I've restarted my BT HH5B a few times to create a new PPP session, with the same result.
Many thanks for any help :)
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I think the IP Profile is right - 96.7% of 36,194 = 34,999
Then losing about 2Mbps on the speedtest overheads also seems about right. It could, possibly, be a tiny tad higher, but not a lot.
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I think the IP Profile is right - 96.7% of 36,194 = 34,999
Then losing about 2Mbps on the speedtest overheads also seems about right. It could, possibly, be a tiny tad higher, but not a lot.
Thanks for the reply. I wasn't aware of this "96.7%" reduction, thanks for informing me. I've read http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/IPprofile.htm (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/IPprofile.htm) but I still don't understand the reason for effectively reducing each line's bandwidth by 3.3%.
Why exactly is this needed? I understand the need for an IP Profile, but surely it would be best for us if it simply set itself to the current sync speeds etc?
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BT wholesale network cannot handle queued packets so the IP profile gets set to slightly below I think what the natural flow of traffic would be.
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BT wholesale network cannot handle queued packets so the IP profile gets set to slightly below I think what the natural flow of traffic would be.
Hi Chrysalis, thanks for this info. I'm assuming Sky's network doesn't have such a limitation? I remember my speed test results were very much in line with my sync back then.
I've now resumed uploading to MDWS - interestingly enough my line decided to sync a little higher again today - 36247Kbps - it keeps increasing a tiny bit each day! Unsure if this is just coincidence with the time of day that I power on the modem, or if DLM is seeing my line is error free on the DS side and seeing how far it can push it?
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I'm assuming Sky's network doesn't have such a limitation?
They get the same 96% limitations as users on the poor old BT wholesale network ;)
http://speedof.me/ (http://speedof.me/) and see what you get
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yeah there is overheads, the profile in itself is no noticeable loss of performance unless it gets stuck, however FTTC ip profiles update instantly on PPP connect, and stuck occurances seem to be extremely rare so I dont really consider BTw's ip profile a problem. Unlike the old ADSL ip profile's which took 5 days to update.
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I'm assuming Sky's network doesn't have such a limitation?
They get the same 96% limitations as users on the poor old BT wholesale network ;)
http://speedof.me/ (http://speedof.me/) and see what you get
Thanks for this link, this speed tester seems to represent the speeds I'm seeing when actually downloading content (see attached for imagine, can't direct link it for some reason)
yeah there is overheads, the profile in itself is no noticeable loss of performance unless it gets stuck, however FTTC ip profiles update instantly on PPP connect, and stuck occurances seem to be extremely rare so I dont really consider BTw's ip profile a problem. Unlike the old ADSL ip profile's which took 5 days to update.
Ah I see, thanks for the information :)
I see on my MDWS (Dave2150) I seem to have had a sudden DS SNR drop to 3DB around 22:00 yesterday - it doesn't appear to have caused any ES etc. I'm used to my line loosing around 1DB DS SNR each night, then slowly regaining it in the morning etc, but this seems like a much larger drop than I've seen before. I presume it's linked to something electrical turning on, though I can't think of anything in my household that turns on around then. Any thought would be most welcome :)