Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => ISPs => Topic started by: BobC on March 12, 2021, 07:58:59 PM
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Hello,
I'm out of contract with BT, paying exorbitant prices, for what I get, compared to other users on the internet. £40 for 39Mbps. My broadband speeds have dropped significantly over the past 4 years. In 2016-2017 on a full cabinet my maximum data rate was pushing 74Mbps now down to 55-57Mbps and my current sync rate is 42 which in realtime terms is 39Mbps in broadband speed tests. The BT Hub also loves going down for a reboot every 1-14 days.
BT / Openreach have been hopeless in the past when engineers have come out. They all refused to do a dlm reset even though it was blatently clear my noise margin was spiking wildly out of control, it's at 10db currently. All of them reported no issues as well. This is why I have been thinking of switching to Zen and A&A. Both provide decent routers/modems and I'm hoping with better CS they can fix whatever problem is impacting my line. The telephone checker estimates are prone to change but a none impacted A range line is currently 68Mbps with a low of 44Mbps in the B impacted line, this was higher in the past. Postcode checker still indicates a 55 - 78 estimate.
I already have a line setup and on a month to month rolling contract with BT so I guess I could just migrate to another service? In all honesty I would like a new line connected at a different telepole that is both closer to my house and to the cabinet based on distance, but BT refused that switch back when I complained about it in 2018 stating it would not make any difference which telepole you were connected to.
I know Zen and A&A are some of the mostly costly providers out there, but if they can somehow stabilise my line and bring the speeds back up to a respectable standard I'll switch in a heartbeat. All I want is consistency and low latencies. Low download speeds used to bother me but the only options I have are FTTC and VM, VM offer much higher download speeds, but are rubbish when it comes to latencies and peak time problems.The routers Zen and A&A provide are also a touch better than the BT HUB for wifi which would be a bonus.
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When you switch you will still end up on the same circuit. So it won’t change anything. AA used to offer to resolve lines issues with a soft guarantee, not sure if that’s the case. There are better routers at little cost than ISP supplied ones. I’m with Zen but use a Draytec
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When you switch you will still end up on the same circuit. So it won’t change anything. AA used to offer to resolve lines issues with a soft guarantee, not sure if that’s the case. There are better routers at little cost than ISP supplied ones. I’m with Zen but use a Draytec
I get that but I generally just go with the ISP provided ones. The HUB 5 was my first bad experience. The 5ghz wifi loses connection often and pushing the little wifi button on the HUB doesn't correct it. Had 3 of these things now and always the same issue. At other times the 5ghz wifi just disappears completely until the HUB reboots. With dlm managing the connection I daren't reset the HUB manually anymore.
Well, with a switch the dlm would reset, so the speeds would increase for a time, but something over a period of time is causing errors to build up on the line which is causing the max data rate and sync speeds to tank. I have tried the quiet line test in both the master socket and the test socket it's quiet, but something is happening somewhere. A fault was raised on our cab a while back, an engineer came out to fix whatever the problem was and half a day later the speeds had shot back up to almost 77Mbps, that was only shortlived though, because within a year or two that started to drop off again, as did the max data rate.
I honestly have no idea what to do then. I either sacrifice speed and go 40/10 due to my line being inconsistent or I risk it and switch to VM knowing all the problems they have with congestion.
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What happens when you switch depends on if your on an ECI cab. Are you able to post stats so the excellent members here can give you some better info
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What G3uiss said. It’s not going to hurt to talk to AA who are indeed very good at getting faults fixed, but they can’t fix crosstalk. If you need more speed then go FTTP if you can or go for twin bonded lines as I have (with AA).
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What happens when you switch depends on if your on an ECI cab. Are you able to post stats so the excellent members here can give you some better info
What information would be needed? As for the Cab it's Huawei.
What G3uiss said. It’s not going to hurt to talk to SMO who are indeed very good at getting faults fixed, but they can’t fix crosstalk. If you need more speed then go FTTP if you can or go for twin bonded lines as I have (with AA).
FTTP is not available, I wish it was. It's available through Virgin Media but oversubscriptions is a massive issue with them.
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Some modems expose a whole page of detailed information. This is obtained by using telnet or certain apps designed for the specific purpose of querying modems. Such modems need to be based on a Broadcom chipset as far as I’m aware.
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Others do provide stats, but not as easy to interpret.
Things like. SNRM, ES, CRC, FEC, HLOG, QLN are the key diagnostic parameters. They indicate degree of cross talk, errors in the metallic path way and constraints on the line
Here is a link to my stats, not current but you will see the idea.
west-lodge.com/vdsl/index.htm
Might show you some examples.
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Others do provide stats, but not as easy to interpret.
Things like. SNRM, ES, CRC, FEC, HLOG, QLN are the key diagnostic parameters. They indicate degree of cross talk, errors in the metallic path way and constraints on the line
Here is a link to my stats, not current but you will see the idea.
west-lodge.com/vdsl/index.htm
Might show you some examples.
I don't think my current HUB is able to display that sort of information.
4. Board version: BT Hub 5A
5. DSL uptime: 2 days, 19:43:04
6. Data rate: U14828 / D42051
7. Maximum data rate: U14828 / D55690
8. Noise margin: U6.0 / D9.9
9. Line attenuation: U24.2 / D19.6
10. Signal attenuation: U23.9 / D19.7
11. Data sent/received: 2.1 GB / 64.3 GB
This is all I am able to grab. The HUB 6 and beyond offer more options. Even though I signed a new contract with BT back in late 2018 they never offered me a new HUB when I asked. They said they could send me a like for like replacement of the current one but wouldn't offer me a new one, which I found a bit odd because when you take out new contracts I should have been able to switch, based on what I have read since then.
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The only real information there is DS SNRM suggesting your line is not running at max, by quite away. But it’s all in the dark without more information. I don’t know if you can harvest more data from a 5A others my have more knowledge. Really to make progress a router of EBay would be a good investment for both access to stats and likely better performance. Zyxel VMG perhaps but lots of suggestions on the forum.
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The only real information there is DS SNRM suggesting your line is not running at max, by quite away. But it’s all in the dark without more information. I don’t know if you can harvest more data from a 5A others my have more knowledge. Really to make progress a router of EBay would be a good investment for both access to stats and likely better performance. Zyxel VMG perhaps but lots of suggestions on the forum.
Don't really want to be spending any extra on top of the monthly broadband bill by buying my own equipment.
I'm stuck in a real tough situation here. I switch from one FTTC provider to another and will most definitely run into the exact same issues. I switch to Virgin Media and I have much higher download speeds for about 6 hours a day past midnight then frequent fluctuations for the rest of the day due to mass oversubscriptions and daily congestion. Both are equally terrible options.
What I may end up doing is switching to another FTTC ISP at a cheaper cost, pay a month to month or upwards of a 12 month contract and hope that the new modem/router combo doesn't disconnect and resync anywhere near as often as the HUB 5 does.
Until FTTP becomes widely available and gives the area more options I'm sort of stuck between two terrible options.
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Have you considered 4G providers?
I had an awful experience with Three for two years but then decided to try Voxi (Vodafone) for £30/month and I get 50-120Mbit.
It might vary, but at least with a monthly contract you can drop it at any time. Obviously depends on which networks are nearby and how subscribed they are.
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Talking about buying your own equipment; you can get superb ZyXEL kit for cheap money on eBay sometimes.
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Have you considered 4G providers?
I had an awful experience with Three for two years but then decided to try Voxi (Vodafone) for £30/month and I get 50-120Mbit.
It might vary, but at least with a monthly contract you can drop it at any time. Obviously depends on which networks are nearby and how subscribed they are.
Not sure I would be comfortable with that sort of arrangement. 4g coverage is full strength here but I'm not sure I'm willing to take that sort of chance over a 4g network as my broadband replacement even on a month to month basis. I suppose I could take out a plan on top of my existing broadband and see how it goes but that would be double the cost.
I will decide over the next few weeks where I want to go from here. BT prices are also going up by a few pounds at the end of the month which seems to apply to me also even though I'm on one of their halo packages (end of contract = pay the same rate as in contract) but I've been out of contract for a while so I should be able to leave at anytime either by migrating or just cancelling. Problem with cancelling with BT directly is I would lose my slot on the cab and I'm pretty sure it's still full.
Honestly not sure where I would go next. It doesn't seem to matter how much I pay or how little I pay I'm going to have the same issues regardless, but I'll probably still end up opting for a ISP like Zen just because of the reviews, the CS, the router, although with Zen I wouldn't be slicing as much of the monthly fee as I would hope, price generally doesn't bother me, but if I'm not getting the speeds or the stability and my line condition cannot be improved to how it was just a few years ago, it may not make much sense to choose one of the more expensive options.
The cheaper alternatives don't get glowing reports though and are far more likely to fob you off just like BT have done. Going to be tough deciding the next option.
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I really think as @weaver suggested a box of eBay ( £20/30) would give you all the answers. Certainly less than switching. At least you would know.
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If your SNR is moving about (unstable) you have unstable levels of noise on the line and a DLM reset isnt going to fix that.
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Problem with cancelling with BT directly is I would lose my slot on the cab and I'm pretty sure it's still full.
I don’t think so for a migration
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I really think as @weaver suggested a box of eBay ( £20/30) would give you all the answers. Certainly less than switching. At least you would know.
Wouldn't say it's less than switching when I'm already paying £40 a month for a sub standard service. If I had renegotiated the price, dropped to the lower package or had simply gone elsewhere I could have saved myself some money. As said already though price wouldn't be an issue if I had respectable speeds. Started off in the mid 70's I was fine with, in the 60's I questioned it but left it, in the 50's I had a few engineers out who seemingly did absolutely nothing besides change the faceplate and run a few tests then said that's all you're going to get I'm afraid. Even though my noise margin was then at a 8.5, my max data was still in the 60's whereas the data rate was floating around the high 40's low 50's. There was definitely an issue somewhere besides crosstalk. Another thing I have never understood is why my line and signal attenuation have rose from 18.1db in 2016-2018 to a now 19.6/7.
If your SNR is moving about (unstable) you have unstable levels of noise on the line and a DLM reset isnt going to fix that.
Yeah, I already knew that unfortunately. A dlm reset alone won't fix the line condition, which is why I kept raising faults, eventually gave up because every single engineer pretty much did the same thing then left. There is something else going on besides crosstalk but none of them bother to do a thing about it. The thing is in 5 years of being with BT I have never really had any downtime besides the HUB restarts and little to no congestion at peak times. I don't have all the fancy stats to back that up and I may well be wrong but I have not noticed any major issues unlike when I was Virgin Media and had lots of issues everyday.
I will just switch to a different provider on short term deals and hope FTTP comes along asap. If the next provider have a decent kit I will then be able to supply that information.
I don’t think so for a migration
Yeah, I meant if I phoned BT directly to cancel. I would first need to sign up with another service and migrate that way I think.
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Don't really want to be spending any extra on top of the monthly broadband bill by buying my own equipment.
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Unfortunately if you only want to use the ISP's supplied router then you are likely to be stuck with not knowing very much about your line conditions as a lot don't give much of this information. A work colleague of mine has recently moved to John Lewis broadband and they still issue Zyxel routers, which most here, myself included, consider decent.
I'm happy to chance a cheap secondhand router from eBay but I know not everyone is comfortable doing that.
:)
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Wouldn't say it's less than switching when I'm already paying £40 a month for a sub standard service.
As @tubman has also pointed out, the only way to find out what is going on is to get some stats. You need to know why the SNRM varies etc. Then many very experienced members here could give you some detailed advice.
Yes its always best to migrate. You chose a new provider, they handle the cancellation with existing provider. Cancelling is a recipe for disaster >:(
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As @tubman has also pointed out, the only way to find out what is going on is to get some stats. You need to know why the SNRM varies etc. Then many very experienced members here could give you some detailed advice.
Yes its always best to migrate. You chose a new provider, they handle the cancellation with existing provider. Cancelling is a recipe for disaster >:(
Any specific routers in mind? I won't be able to make any sense of most of the information. Hopefully the install isn't complicated either. Seen some online in the past that had thousands of customisation options. I would still prefer just to switch to a provider that supply a decent router/modem configuration with better CS, but I'll do what everyone as suggested here. Once I get one should it be plugged into the master socket or test socket? and if there are problems should I be reporting it to BT or switch provider and let them handle it? I could get an engineer out if I contacted BT right now but they would probably say the same thing as the last 3.
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Talk to Andrews and Arnold; they’ll probably tell you that nothing can be done about crosstalk. But if there’s anything else wrong then they will fix it - they have an ‘or your money back’ scheme, or used to have. But apart from faults it will be the same old line, with AA or anyone else.
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Any specific routers in mind? I won't be able to make any sense of most of the information. Hopefully the install isn't complicated either. Seen some online in the past that had thousands of customisation options. I would still prefer just to switch to a provider that supply a decent router/modem configuration with better CS, but I'll do what everyone as suggested here. Once I get one should it be plugged into the master socket or test socket? and if there are problems should I be reporting it to BT or switch provider and let them handle it? I could get an engineer out if I contacted BT right now but they would probably say the same thing as the last 3.
Many users here use Zygel routers VMGxxxx-B10A is the preferred one. But many others B10x. You will get much help on the setup here, you only need your login details from ISP nothing else to setup, unless you have a customised network. Help also and how to get the stats. When you have the stats, members will be able to suggest where, and if a fault might be. Changing provider will do nothing as @weaver says its the same line. All faults should be reported to the ISP and they raise with OR. If its not a problem to use the test socket, then its a better option, but not essential except for fault finding. I'm afraid ISP supplied routers are generally low end devices.
If you do want to swap ISP, I would suggest you check out @weavers suggestion, but like me he doesn't know if they still guarantee to clear a fault. However as everyone has said crosstalk cant be fixed, and just gets worse with time, unfortunately never goes the other way :no:
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Many users here use Zygel routers VMGxxxx-B10A is the preferred one. But many others B10x.
I see what the other commenters meant about Ebay and second hand now. I can only find a few sites that list them and they are all £100+. Even second hand are £40+. This router would be a test and throw away item. Also noticed the 4 ports are limited to 100 rather than gigabits. Not that it matters over vdsl and I don't expect FTTP to be implemented for years, just surprised that so many users use this.
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I see what the other commenters meant about Ebay and second hand now. I can only find a few sites that list them and they are all £100+. Even second hand are £40+. This router would be a test and throw away item. Also noticed the 4 ports are limited to 100 rather than gigabits. Not that it matters over vdsl and I don't expect FTTP to be implemented for years, just surprised that so many users use this.
I'm not sure why you say it would be a 'test and throw away item' as that certainly doesn't need to be the case. I've been using a Zyxel router on my BT line for years because they are reliable and I have control over how they work. The 10/100 rather than gigabit ports is only true on the VMG 1312 series, all of the VMG8xxx and VMG3xxx routers have gigabit ports as far as I know. There's also quite few available right now on eBay for under £40 - here a new example for £29.99 delivered - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ZYXEL-Wireless-AC-N-VDSL2-Gateway-Router-VMG3925-B10C-Gaming-Video-HD/114639543196
:)
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I see what the other commenters meant about Ebay and second hand now. I can only find a few sites that list them and they are all £100+. Even second hand are £40+. This router would be a test and throw away item. Also noticed the 4 ports are limited to 100 rather than gigabits. Not that it matters over vdsl and I don't expect FTTP to be implemented for years, just surprised that so many users use this.
So many users only use it as a dumb modem, with a separate, more powerful router.
As FTTC is limited to 80/20 the 100Mb LAN ports can't be a bottleneck in that setup.
I advise against many of the older Zyxel devices as a single combined unit.
Actually, there aren't many combined modem routers that I'm a fan of.
I've been using a separate modem and router since back in 2012 when FTTC 1st launched.
It makes perfect sense to me to use 2 separate devices.
Over the last couple years I've gone from FTTC, to Virgin, to FTTP all with the same router.
The Huawei HG612 might be a good cheap option on eBay.
They provide lots of statistics that can help identify issues on a line.
I'm with others above in that I think a switch of ISP may not help with your speeds.
The drop in sync that you've experienced over the last few years are well within the range of what's commonly lost due to crosstalk.
What is difficult to tell from the limited stats is why the attainable rate is higher than the sync and why the SNRM (noise margin) is so high.
The line doesn't appear to be banded by the DLM.
If it isn't then a DLM reset (either manually applied or as a consequence of switching ISP) will do nothing for the line.
If it's external noise like REIN causing the low sync/high SNRM then it's almost impossible to track it down.
It could be pretty much any piece of machinery, plant, a pump, a neighbours old tv, etc, etc, anywhere in-between you and your cabinet that causes external noise.
It really doesn't matter which ISP you choose if that's the issue
None of them can easily get OpenReach to open a REIN investigation.
Even if they did and they track down whatever it is, they have no power to make anyone fix anything.
If your issues are caused by a waste water pump for example OpenReach can only tell whoever owns that pump that it's causing issues with local broadband lines and ask them to fix it.
Weaver (who posted above) has 4 bonded ADSL lines from AAISP. He pays them an absolute fortune every month
Yet on 1 of his lines the SNRM swings up and down everyday.
AA regularly send engineers when his lines go bad but every time they fix a small error, mark the job as complete and the case is closed.
A few of us believe this to be caused by a noise source external to his property.
Never once has this external noise even been looked at when AA have sent an engineer to fix his line.
The engineer runs a few tests, fixes any bad joints and marks the job as done.
They aren't going to walk the 7km length of his line to find the noise source, he just has to live with it.
It would massively help to try identify yourself what might be the issue.
A cheap HG612 off eBay will probably be cheaper than the extra a single month on AAISP would cost you.
What will help for the moment... could you resync your line and post the new line stats when it has reconnected.
That will be informative even with your limited stats available.
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Taken a look at the Zyxel VMG8324-B10A. Was horrified when I saw the configuration screen on Youtube, then I saw that firmware flashing is required. This as well as convenience is precisely why I stick with the pre-configured ones provided by the ISP's. I had to split the SSID's with the Hub 5 and turn some other setting off and that was about it. Login and done. That router to me looks incredibly complex especially that firmware. Clicked on a few links and they led nowhere. Is it simpler than it looks? I thought it would be something I could plug in, log into and just report the stats after a few days.
As for the Huawei HG612 I take it this is modem only and needs a router attached separately? I'll stick with the all in one option from the above.
06th January 18:49:11, Down Rate=48941Kbps, Up Rate=14689Kbps; SNR Margin Down=8.3dB, Up=6.0dB
14th January 02:34:29, Down Rate=48941Kbps, Up Rate=15125Kbps; SNR Margin Down=8.4dB, Up=6.0dB
28th January 03:41:55, Down Rate=46901Kbps, Up Rate=15057Kbps; SNR Margin Down=8.3dB, Up=6.0dB
14th February 12:27:30, Down Rate=42051Kbps, Up Rate=15152Kbps; SNR Margin Down=10.2dB, Up=6.0dB
17th February 01:30:43. Down Rate=43947Kbps, Up Rate=15327Kbps; SNR Margin Down=10.0dB, Up=5.9dB
06th March 02:34:49. Down Rate=42051Kbps, Up Rate=14731Kbps; SNR Margin Down=9.7dB, Up=6.0dB
09th March 21:40:31, Down Rate=42051Kbps, Up Rate=14772Kbps; SNR Margin Down=9.9dB, Up=6.0dB (Test socket) manual reset
10th March 01:48:29. Down Rate=42051Kbps, Up Rate=14828Kbps; SNR Margin Down=9.8dB, Up =6.0dB
I can't grab any of the older ones but I do have a few screenshots of the HUB stats from 2016-2018, telephone checker stats etc but that information seems irrelevant now with the max data rate changing and estimates changing on my line. That line and signal attenuation still gets me though. 18 to 19.6db. The upload one actually dropped from 27 to 23 when I look at some of those old screenshots to now.
This is a bit of recent information for you John. I don't really want to be resetting the HUB's connection at this time as it will probably drop me down even further due to those recent automatic HUB resets
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To add to what John said, the weird up/down jumping SNRM is upstream only, for some reason, and I have no idea why it does that, and what’s the weirdest of all is that it only affects that one line. If it were RF interference then I would expect all lines to be affected but who knows.
About the ports in the ZyXEL modem-routers, four ports is pretty limiting so many people will want a proper gigabit n-port separate switch, so in that case the 100Mbps limitation won’t matter as it will only be for traffic going to/from the internet, not traffic on the LAN. Wired-to-wireless traffic will really suffer though if you have 100Mbps ports. I’m using VMG1312-B10s as modems only not as routers, so they only see 3Mbps [!] of internet traffic each.
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I think the video you watched has given you the wrong idea, it will plug and play. The 2 box solution is the better, but I didn’t suggest it for the complications you fear. Many users update the firmware and links are on this site to do that, I’ve never bothered and haven’t suffered.
However to gain any information, and the chance to improve the line if a fault is obvious,stats are needed. Like J0hn has said, the down SNRM is indicative the line isn’t running at its potential as it would be 6db or (lower on a Hy cabinet). The sync isn’t at a “obvious capped” level.
There isn’t really any other way to diagnose your line, however the gradual erosion of the sync is indicative of cross talk, but that doesn’t explain the 8.x SNRM
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The line is definitely banded. The sync rates just aren't the usual rounded numbers easily identifiable.
3 exact syncs in a row with a high SNRM says it all.
Ignore my previous REIN comments.
You can trust those reported attainable rates. The line would sync around there without the banding in place.
Add another 8-11Mb if the line is stable and the DLM was to reduce the line to a 3dB profile.
Have you tried pushing BT for a DLM reset on the forums?
Could the line be resyncing frequently, multiple times in a day? Does the current modem show that in any logs?
That's usually why banding is applied and why it continues to be lowered.
A DLM could be a temporary fix if there's an underlying issue.
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If it is banding the same sort of pattern has been happening for a long while. In 2016 when I first connected to the cab a similar problem occured. Sync rates and max attainable identical. After a few months it started going to 67 sync 74 max attainable, 63 sync 74 max attainable, 55 sync 74 max attainable and then eventually the max attainable dropped with it. In one of my other posts I may have mentioned a fault was raised on our cabinet and our internets were down for half a day and when the HUB eventually came back online the sync rates and max attainable were back to 74mbps. That started to wither away again after a while first with the sync rates then with the max attainable. I tried to get a dlm line reset from the engineers that were called out but they refused stating this is the maximum my line can do. This even though my data rates were 10-15Mbps lower than the max attainable with a noise margin of 8.3-8.5 at the time, I was also syncing lower than my minimum guaranteed speed then as well. I was never charged for their visit and I was in the test socket beforehand so they must have found or atleast done something to waive the charge. As for BT forum... I have tried going there in the past but no staff member as ever reviewed my case. Something I have always found annoying about that forum is the more detailed information you give the less feedback you get. Crazy right? Managed to get way more information in my limited time here than I could ever get from BT forums in years, not that I posted very often, but I made 3 or 4 threads but it was always the same generic responses please try the test socket, then it goes silent.
I'm not sure if the reysncs are happening regularly. I always thought the DSL uptime was accurate. Unless the resyncs can happen without actually losing internet connection. I spend that much time on the internet that when I notice the connection as gone down it's generally the HUB resetting which takes a few minutes. This HUB may definitely be partially at fault because it likes resyncing with the cabinet every 1-14 days.
I will buy a ZyXEL VMG8924-B10A in the next couple of days to test with and get this over with once and for all. Can someone point me in the right direction to the firmware version I need for this particular model? I saw the 65 or so page thread. I take it the file I need is somewhere in here ftp://ftp.zyxel.co.uk/VMG8924-B10A/firmware/
Just had to edit in a thing or two.
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I'm not sure if the reysncs are happening regularly. I always thought the DSL uptime was accurate. Unless the resyncs can happen without actually losing internet connection. I spend that much time on the internet that when I notice the connection as gone down it's generally the HUB resetting which takes a few minutes. This HUB may definitely be partially at fault because it likes resyncing with the cabinet every 1-14 days.
Each time the HUB resets that will drop the DSL and I'm sure its impossible for a connection to survive when a resync happens. As J0hn points out many resyncs cause the DLM to take action which is normally banding, whereas if its high errors Interleaving is applied. You can check if the line is interleaved by pinging bbc.co.uk, normally on a Fastpath line it would be circa 12ms, but interleaving adds 8ms to that so over 20ms the line is likely interleaved.
If I was undertaking this, I would leave the firmware, and just plug in and logon in your credentials. When the line is sorted, you might want to update the firmware as the device will be superior by far to the HH in my view. Both my modems don't resync for months, no reason for the HUB to keep doing so really.
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Pinging bbc.co.uk [151.101.128.81] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 151.101.128.81: bytes=32 time=9ms TTL=57
Reply from 151.101.128.81: bytes=32 time=9ms TTL=57
Reply from 151.101.128.81: bytes=32 time=9ms TTL=57
Reply from 151.101.128.81: bytes=32 time=9ms TTL=57
Ping statistics for 151.101.128.81:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 9ms, Maximum = 9ms, Average = 9ms
That's the crazy thing. My latencies are still lowish. My HUB always resets on a 14 day cycle. When I read into it a while ago other users using the HH5 and HH6 were reporting similar things about the 14 day reconnects. The difference with mine to theirs is mine can resync at lower speeds then very rarely recovers. It might resync at a 2 or 3Mbps higher, but some resyncs later the speeds continue to fall. It's also extremely rare for the HUB to reboot multiple times within a few week window. It either happens once every two weeks or twice every two weeks if we are going off the HUB stats and dsl uptime.
Had to edit again... sorry.
Need to include this. Before I commit to this VMG8924 are there any you would personally recommend John? I know you mentioned the HG612 Openreach modem but if I want a all in one package, which few were you alluding to when you said there aren't many combined modem & routers you're a fan of? Which also have the means to reveal lots of information about your line? If I could pick one of those up on the cheap I'll order that instead. If not I'll just get the VMG8924.
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I like the VMG8924-B10A and personally used it for a year or 2 as a bridge modem.
For an all in one unit it is 1 of the better devices.
The only downside being its age and lack of support/recent firmware upgrades.
I only mentioned the HG612 is as can be found very very cheap on occasion and had identical stats access as the Zyxel.
The Zyxel has a newer DSL chipset and should sync higher (although you are currently capped).
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I like the VMG8924-B10A and personally used it for a year or 2 as a bridge modem.
For an all in one unit it is 1 of the better devices.
The only downside being its age and lack of support/recent firmware upgrades.
I only mentioned the HG612 is as can be found very very cheap on occasion and had identical stats access as the Zyxel.
The Zyxel has a newer DSL chipset and should sync higher (although you are currently capped).
Fair enough, thanks. Just ordered the VMG8924 from Ebay. Fingers crossed it turns up and is also working. Paid a little more than the £15-£30 quoted earlier including delivery costs to avoid getting embroiled in the bidding system and waiting around. The listing also claimed to be new and unused apart from having pictures taken for the listing. Until the router/modem arrives I don't think there is anything else to add.
That link I posted a few posts ago. ftp://ftp.zyxel.co.uk/VMG8924-B10A/firmware/ is where I get the firmware right? Do I just download the latest version from 2019 and add it in? Just want to make sure before I update the firmware.
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If you are going to use it as just a modem then try our very own member Johnson’s excellent enhanced firmware, at https://github.com/johnson442/custom-zyxel-firmware/releases
I have four ZyXEL modems and I use this on all of mine.
Friends, is it suitable for full router-mode usage?
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If you are going to use it as just a modem then try our very own member Johnson’s excellent enhanced firmware, at https://github.com/johnson442/custom-zyxel-firmware/releases
I have four ZyXEL modems and I use this on all of mine.
Friends, is it suitable for full router-mode usage?
No, not modem only, bought it as a all in one. Only bought it to test as instructed for the stats. If it's decent I will continue to use it providing I stay with vdsl.
So which firmware do I actually need?
Also, should I be contacting BT and telling them I'm banded and need a line reset or just wait until I can pull the stats from this router when it's setup? I still want to switch ISP as well, gonna be tied down to another full months payment at this rate on top of the bill due later this month. What I really want to know is what is causing the banding. If there is no noise in the quiet line test in both the master socket and the test socket, my latencies are still low so no interleaving and the HUB only reboots once or twice a fortnight what is the actual problem? Crosstalk is obviously an issue but something else is happening alongside that and as been for a long time.
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If I was using the VMG8924 as an all in one, I would be using the stats firmware without Jumbo or X6 so this one: https://github.com/johnson442/custom-zyxel-firmware/releases/download/v1.1/8x24-B10A-28-tel-stats1.1-cmd.bin
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Also, should I be contacting BT and telling them I'm banded and need a line reset or just wait until I can pull the stats from this router when it's setup? I still want to switch ISP as well, gonna be tied down to another full months payment at this rate on top of the bill due later this month. What I really want to know is what is causing the banding. If there is no noise in the quiet line test in both the master socket and the test socket, my latencies are still low so no interleaving and the HUB only reboots once or twice a fortnight what is the actual problem? Crosstalk is obviously an issue but something else is happening alongside that and as been for a long time.
As J0hn has said Banding is usually caused by excessive re syncs, there are line faults that exhibit no noise, had one recently. I would wait until I get access to the stats then there may be more information. Changing ISP is your choice, and when dictated by your need, not the possible line fault. If you wait until you have a good router on the line, then might be the time to get a DLM reset. The Zyxel may not reboot for months, mine don't
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If I was using the VMG8924 as an all in one, I would be using the stats firmware without Jumbo or X6 so this one: https://github.com/johnson442/custom-zyxel-firmware/releases/download/v1.1/8x24-B10A-28-tel-stats1.1-cmd.bin
It doesn't hurt to have Jumbo though, even if you never use it.
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What Alex said.
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Router turned up today. I wasn't able to establish a connection in the test socket so I switched it back over to the master socket, was my fault, didn't realise I had to change the PPPOE username and password to BT. Changed that, changed the wireless SSID's. Not sure what else I need to change from the default settings. I also downloaded that firmware Meritez linked and clicked on the firmware upgrade but it's been loading for the past 20 minutes, not sure if that's normal.
So once it's all fully setup what stats do you actually need?
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Router turned up today. I wasn't able to establish a connection in the test socket so I switched it back over to the master socket, was my fault, didn't realise I had to change the PPPOE username and password to BT. Changed that, changed the wireless SSID's. Not sure what else I need to change from the default settings. I also downloaded that firmware Meritez linked and clicked on the firmware upgrade but it's been loading for the past 20 minutes, not sure if that's normal.
So once it's all fully setup what stats do you actually need?
Hi Bob,
If you go to http://192.168.1.1:8000 you should see all stats
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Hi Bob,
If you go to http://192.168.1.1:8000 you should see all stats
That site can't be reached from the link.
I also can't get that firmware to update. Was loading forever. Went onto Youtube and it should take 10s.
Upgrade Firmware
Current Firmware Version: 1.00(AAKL.10)C0_20151008
Upgrade 3G Package
Current 3G Package Version: 1.09
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That site can't be reached from the link.
I also can't get that firmware to update. Was loading forever. Went onto Youtube and it should take 10s.
Upgrade Firmware
Current Firmware Version: 1.00(AAKL.10)C0_20151008
Upgrade 3G Package
Current 3G Package Version: 1.09
That sounds like custom isp firmware
Can you telnet into the router and type zycli fwidcheck off
and zycli modelcheck off
and then try the firmware update again
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That sounds like custom isp firmware
Can you telnet into the router and type and
and then try the firmware update again
All I keep getting is unrecognised command through Putty. I'm obviously doing something wrong... Not the brightest of people when it comes to any of this type of stuff.
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I get the same response to those commands on my 8924 so I don't think it's you. That firmware version is odd as they don't usually have a date on the end like that, but usually you get rejection message if it can't load it so I'm not sure what is happening.
Have you tried stock Zyxel firmware from their ftp site?
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Just wanted to update. Managed to get it all up and running. That link now works as well. I will post some stats later, only just recently rebooted the router to apply the firmware.
Current Firmware Version: 28-tel-stats1.1-cmd
Not sure what is important and unimportant when it comes to the stats. I'll post whatever looks important and if you need more just say.
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posted the xDSL statistics from the router and the vmgraph which was linked in a earlier post. If any more screenshots are needed or there is something else available that includes even more stats please say so.
I can't seem to find a few things like G.INP, fastpath, interleaving, vectoring which is seen in some people's stats. Also can't seem to locate the total usage of download and upload in the router information. Is this type of information not available in this router or am I again supposed to be using some different software to get all the stats?
Screenshots should be attached below. This router also allows ICMP pings so I have setup a long overdue Broadband Quality Monitor. Could never enable that feature with the HUB 5.
Also, in the Remote Management under Lan should they all be ticked? Similarly under wan should they be ticked or not?
I apologise for the delay in delivering the stats. I couldn't get the IPTV to work last night. There was a connection but no IP could be assigned and meddling with the router caused the router to break temporarily. Wifi worked but the lan/ethernets did not. Managed to get into the router via phones over wifi and turned off the setting that bricked the router. Had to reset the router after-wards. The setting that caused the router to mess up was bridge and routing mode in the same wan, enable con-current WAN. I read in another thread that enabling the port that is connected to the TV / IPTV may fix it. Instead it died. We eventually got the IPTV up and running after that so no need for advice.
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Did you already visit http://192.168.1.1:8000/data/stats (also accessible as ‘stats’ from within the ‘data’ menu)
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Did you already visit http://192.168.1.1:8000/data/stats (also accessible as ‘stats’ from within the ‘data’ menu)
Nope, I'm clearly missing something obvious in the index menu. First I couldn't find that vmgGraph without the link and I couldn't find that data/stats page you just linked. I'll post them stats anyway.
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what do you see when you look in the ‘data’ menu ?
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what do you see when you look in the ‘data’ menu ?
QLN, Hlog, Logfile, SNR, Bits, Varstats, Stats, Vendor and CurTime. I can see this information through the links but how do I navigate to these pages through the IP - Index page? I'm either missing something obvious under connection status, network setting, security, system monitor and maintenance or I'm on the wrong page entirely. I'm such a simpleton. People type as if I should know these things, unfortunately I don't. Are the stats provided in the screenshots above not enough?
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Two things: You need to make sure that you are appending the :8000 ie http://192.168.1.1:8000 and secondly the web pages accessible on port 8000 are from a separate webserver, distinct from the standard ZyXEL one on http://192.168.1.1/ (http://192.168.1.1)(no port specifier). I suspect that that highly non-obvious fact is what is causing confusion. Our very own hero Mr Johnson added a second small webserver that listens on port 8000 and which gives you the full stats, chronological logging and pretty stats-vs-time graphs.
If you can’t see some particular thing in http://192.168.1.1:8000/data/stats, then do ask, but what’s there is all there is, I believe. In the data/stats or varstats menu is all the good stuff that this modem has.
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Two things: You need to make sure that you are appending the :8000 ie http://192.168.1.1:8000 and secondly the web pages accessible on port 8000 are from a separate webserver, distinct from the standard ZyXEL one on http://192.168.1.1/ (http://192.168.1.1)(no port specifier). I suspect that that highly non-obvious fact is what is causing confusion. Our very own hero Mr Johnson added a second small webserver that listens on port 8000 and which gives you the full stats, chronological logging and pretty stats-vs-time graphs.
If you can’t see some particular thing in http://192.168.1.1:8000/data/stats, then do ask, but what’s there is all there is, I believe. In the data/stats or varstats menu is all the good stuff that this modem has.
Thanks, that clears things up. XDSL Statistics, VmgGraphs stats and data stats have been provided in the above attachments. Wish I had attached all the screenies to the same comment now, wasn't sure which stats I needed to send over. The only thing I can't seem to pin down is how much data I have used in upload and download, unless I missed it when skimming the statistics. Does anything look amiss by the way in the stats? You or anybody else are free to answer. If any other stats are needed just say so and I'll provide them in screenshot form or copy and paste them over in the comments (if short) the data stats and the var stats look similarish, not sure I need to provide screenshots for var stats, but if I do I'll modify and add them to this comment if I can.
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I think we can deduce now:-
There are very few errors on the line
g.inp is enabled ( I don’t know if this is high or low )
The line is on fastpath
With that high SNRM and the attainable much higher than the sync the line is banded.
Others might be able to deduce even more. I would certainly leave this a few days, please avoid anything that might cause a resync ( router rebooting etc)
If those stats remain stable a DLM reset would remove banding, but no point trying to get that until your sure the line / router doesn’t resync ( reset as you have mentioned) or the banding will just be reapplied.
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I think we can deduce now:-
There are very few errors on the line
g.inp is enabled ( I don’t know if this is high or low )
The line is on fastpath
With that high SNRM and the attainable much higher than the sync the line is banded.
Others might be able to deduce even more. I would certainly leave this a few days, please avoid anything that might cause a resync ( router rebooting etc)
If those stats remain stable a DLM reset would remove banding, but no point trying to get that until your sure the line / router doesn’t resync ( reset as you have mentioned) or the banding will just be reapplied.
I know John said banding is caused by drop outs / successive resyncs but it's never been the case. The HUB never reset hourly or daily. In post 26 when I linked the latest HUB resets / resyncs it went from 48941, 14 days later 46901, 14 days later 42051. If all of this is banding but my HUB only reset once every 14 days why does the sync rate continue to drop, then band me again? This has been the pattern all along from 70+ Mbps to 40 ish Mbps. I can understand the crosstalk but how can somebody be on fast path but with 10+ noise margin and a way lower sync rate?
Yes, I will leave it for a few days, if it does restart it won't have been by me. Could all of this have been caused by faulty HUB's? I'll post up the stats again in a few days providing the router stays on. An issue may present itself the longer the router is on which should be easily identifiable with all of you observing.
By the way I forgot to do one thing with this router. I applied the firmware update but never disabled the TR-069 John Lewis supervisor thing. I only found this out by reading threads after I had already applied it :(. Is this something I really ought to do or should I be fine?
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If you can disable the TR-069 thing then that would be ideal, but as to whether or not any practical problems will become evident, I can’t say.
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These are the stats approaching 8 days uptime. Are those still fine? The FEC has shot up since the last posted stats at 19 hours in.
If these stats still look stable and I ask for a dlm reset am I likely to stay at the max attainable with a 6 or 3db SNR or can the errors suddenly multiply with a faster connection speed? I didn't really have a great deal of stats at my disposal on the HH5 but this problem with the speed decline has been a issue ever since I switched from cable to BT I have a gut feeling it will fall away quickly.
I was also checking BT deals on the internet and found something a bit odd. The personalised deal only offers me 36-40Mbps with a minimum guarantee speed of 32Mbps on a 24 month contract. It looks like I'm moving on. I know I could be offered a better deal on the phone if I rang retentions or cancelled but a 24 month contract with a minimum of 32Mbps before I can argue my case is just too low. When I originally signed up it was 54Mbps then climbed up to 61Mbps in a later more accurate telephone check, so that's quite a drop off.
I'm really not sure which ISP I should go with. Does it even matter which one you choose? It will be the exact same service regardless right? Or do some do it better than others?
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These are the stats approaching 8 days uptime. Are those still fine? The FEC has shot up since the last posted stats at 19 hours in.
If these stats still look stable and I ask for a dlm reset am I likely to stay at the max attainable with a 6 or 3db SNR or can the errors suddenly multiply with a faster connection speed? I didn't really have a great deal of stats at my disposal on the HH5 but this problem with the speed decline has been a issue ever since I switched from cable to BT I have a gut feeling it will fall away quickly.
I was also checking BT deals on the internet and found something a bit odd. The personalised deal only offers me 36-40Mbps with a minimum guarantee speed of 32Mbps on a 24 month contract. It looks like I'm moving on. I know I could be offered a better deal on the phone if I rang retentions or cancelled but a 24 month contract with a minimum of 32Mbps before I can argue my case is just too low. When I originally signed up it was 54Mbps then climbed up to 61Mbps in a later more accurate telephone check, so that's quite a drop off.
I'm really not sure which ISP I should go with. Does it even matter which one you choose? It will be the exact same service regardless right? Or do some do it better than others?
If the banding is removed yes the SNRM should go to 6db initial and if the line is ok will slowly go down in steps to 3db with associated increases in sync speed getting towards the max attainable.
A reduction in noise margin will make the line more error prone. That can’t be judged in advanced.
All ISP,s should prove to be the same I’ve found the only variable is in customer service. Usually related to price. Hence AA expensive but regarded as very high standard. It’s a balance
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Totally disagree. AA provides more features and these are very important to me; line IP bonding, fixed global IPv4 address blocks, IPv6, constant quality monitoring graphs, alerts when your lines go down and many many more - can’t think of them all. The IPv6 and fixed IPv4 were requirements for me, that’s why I didn’t stay with Zen, although Zen has changed since then; it was a long time ago. AA policy also guarantees a contention free network. So it’s not all about customer service. Many people are not interested in these things and just, understandably, regard internet access services as a commodity. Hence the race to the bottom on price.
At the same time, your line is what it is and won’t get better by a change of ISP unless it needs mending. The core network does also matter though.
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Totally disagree. AA provides more features and these are very important to me; line IP bonding, fixed global IPv4 address blocks, IPv6, constant quality monitoring graphs, alerts when your lines go down and many many more - can’t think of them all. The IPv6 and fixed IPv4 were requirements for me, that’s why I didn’t stay with Zen, although Zen has changed since then; it was a long time ago. AA policy also guarantees a contention free network. So it’s not all about customer service. Many people are not interested in these things and just, understandably, regard internet access services as a commodity. Hence the race to the bottom on price.
At the same time, your line is what it is and won’t get better by a change of ISP unless it needs mending. The core network does also matter though.
I was considering A&A as I previously mentioned earlier in the discussion but £55 per month for a line that will still have problems is not worth it. i'm fine without all the fancy little extras too. Low latencies, no peak time slow downs, stability / reliability is about all I need. Speed would be another one but if my line will just continue to play up I'm probably better off settling for a cheaper alternative. The only reason I have stayed with BT for so long despite the gradual drop in speed is because of the low latencies, no peak time congestion whatsoever in almost 5 years and barely any downtime. If I can get these things from other ISP's on the network who are offering higher estimates I may as well choose one of these.
Who to go with though? I still haven't the foggiest. Zen (£35) and IDnet (£46) seem to be the best options based on reviews if you take out A&A at £55. I'll see what all of you think before I commit to any.
What do you mean about the core network Weaver?
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I mean the part of the network that the ISP owns, also opposed to the BT or Openreach network and the wider internet between ISPs.
Zen and IDNet are both good choices. I used to use Zen. TalkTalk Business might be worth looking at too.
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Zen and IDNet are both good choices.
I'd add in Pulse8 (if you don't mind being on TTB SMPF); Uno and Aquiss as other credible suppliers.
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"offering higher estimates" is just nonsense from ISPs, if you see any such thing. After all, it’s the same line.
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"offering higher estimates" is just nonsense from ISPs, if you see any such thing. After all, it’s the same line.
I was going to say the same thing. Whichever FTTC ISP you choose you'll get the same sync speed as they can't change the properties of the wire between you and the fibre cabinet. I would request a DLM reset from BT and see how it goes from there.
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A DLM reset will make your line go faster, but only if your SNR margin is currently too high ( > 6dB) after faults. You would need access to your modem statistics to check this.
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A DLM reset will make your line go faster, but only if your SNR margin is currently too high ( > 6dB) after faults. You would need access to your modem statistics to check this.
My bold above - the line appears banded and stuck with DS SNR of ~10dB. As the error rates look very low a DLM reset will hopefully fix this.
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Seems my dsl uptime restarted at around about 2am. dsl uptime 8 hours 41 minutes, modem uptime 8 days 13 hours 26 minutes. The router logs seem to be a bit pointless as they don't seem to show anything. The stats show hundreds of CRC errors, 11 ES, 11 SES, UAS 75, LOS 1, LOF 8. I thought that was the cause for the drop but it seems that's normal when a resync occurs on broadcom modems. So I have no idea what caused the reset. The noise margin is now 11.1db instead of the 10.4-10.8db. This is beginning to irritate me now. Sync speed and line rate are now 43.999 and 44.000. Fast.com speeds indicate 41Mbps. In the last sync which was 43.997 I wasn't getting anything higher than 39Mbps in fast.com which in itself is weird. Max attainable is now at 62.8 to 63Mbps.
Thanks for some of the ISP recommendations above. I will check them out soon. Before I rush into that though I'm probably best doing what Tubaman says and get a dlm reset but I might request an engineer visit as well. There's clearly an issue somewhere. Fourth time lucky?
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At this stage the DLM reset is the way forward. I would avoid an engineer at this stage, let’s see what happens, and if the line errors on a lower SNRM. it will never be the same each resync the nature of the technology.
For whatever reason the line is banded. Nothing will change that except a reset. It’s what happens after that matters.
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A DLM reset will certainly give a big improvement.
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Totally disagree. AA provides more features and these are very important to me; line IP bonding, fixed global IPv4 address blocks, IPv6, constant quality monitoring graphs, alerts when your lines go down and many many more - can’t think of them all. The IPv6 and fixed IPv4 were requirements for me, that’s why I didn’t stay with Zen, although Zen has changed since then; it was a long time ago. AA policy also guarantees a contention free network. So it’s not all about customer service. Many people are not interested in these things and just, understandably, regard internet access services as a commodity. Hence the race to the bottom on price.
At the same time, your line is what it is and won’t get better by a change of ISP unless it needs mending. The core network does also matter though.
I do wish they started properly supporting FTTP though, they going to fall behind if they dont implement it. I am still on aaisp now and will probably stay as long as I have FTTC, but cityfibre are currently rolling out in my city, and I wont think twice about leaving when its available, probably to zen as they resell it.
zen checker confirms my street is part of the residential rollout, so just matter of time.
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At this stage the DLM reset is the way forward. I would avoid an engineer at this stage, let’s see what happens, and if the line errors on a lower SNRM. it will never be the same each resync the nature of the technology.
For whatever reason the line is banded. Nothing will change that except a reset. It’s what happens after that matters.
Had no choice in the end. I asked for a DLM reset and their response was only an engineer can do that. I then pasted the isppreview article "Openreach Give UK ISPs More Control of Broadband DLM Profiles" but I doubt the live chat staff via BT's website even bothered to read it. They were far too busy spamming me with walls of pastes. They have scheduled a engineer visit next week but I told them to make note of the DLM reset.
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@Chrys Couldn’t agree more. Madness.
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At the other end of the scale Plusnet are not offering it either. Suppliers like Zen are going to benefit greatly. I’m just about to change my Plusnet circuit to Zen for this reason.
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Had no choice in the end. I asked for a DLM reset and their response was only an engineer can do that. I then pasted the isppreview article "Openreach Give UK ISPs More Control of Broadband DLM Profiles" but I doubt the live chat staff via BT's website even bothered to read it. They were far too busy spamming me with walls of pastes. They have scheduled a engineer visit next week but I told them to make note of the DLM reset.
Are you on a Huawei or ECI cabinet?
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Reported earlier Huawei
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Are you on a Huawei or ECI cabinet?
Huawei Cab.
I just checked the VmgGraphs and stats and there was a 19k FEC spike around 12:30pm today. Thinkbroadband monitor also had a brief spike in latency around about the same time. Is that anything to be concerned about? This is the first time the FEC errors have jumped up wildly. It was at 10.995 when I checked it at 12:05pm.
I will update whenever I get the engineer vist and hopefully the dlm reset.
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FEC’s are nothing of concern. They are errors that didn’t happen. :P
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FEC’s are nothing of concern. They are errors that didn’t happen. :P
Yes, the name (Forward Error Correction) would imply just that, I used to be of the same opinion, however, it's now widely believed that DS FEC error rate is a factor which DLM monitors with respect to G.Inp re-tx profile selection, I have certainly found this to be true on my line and have had to DS modem speed clamp to reduce FEC error rate to achieve/maintain DS G.Inp re-tx low profile.
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The engineer said there was corrosion on my line. He's fixed that then said everything else looks good from the cab to the telepole. He also replaced the MK3 faceplate with the MK4, but left the MK3 one behind as well. He's done a dlm reset but the data sync is still lower than the max attainable. G.inp has also been disabled so my latencies have gone from 10ms to 18ms which sucks. I will compress some screenshots together and post the attachment below.
. .
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The engineer said there was corrosion on my line. He's fixed that then said everything else looks good from the cab to the telepole. He also replaced the MK3 faceplate with the MK4, but left the MK3 one behind as well. He's done a dlm reset but the data sync is still lower than the max attainable. G.inp has also been disabled so my latencies have gone from 10ms to 18ms which sucks. I will compress some screenshots together and post the attachment below.
That max attainable looks about what you'd expect from a 3dB SNRm target, which makes sense given the DLM reset and so starting from 6dB again.
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And now with patience G.inp will be applied, latency will drop, and hopefully a steady drop in SNRM to 3db. Then you should be near the max attainable. Please note the max attainable is a theoretical figure computed by the modem.
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That max attainable looks about what you'd expect from a 3dB SNRm target, which makes sense given the DLM reset and so starting from 6dB again.
Crosstalk has really done a number on my line, that being complemented with the lift & shift back in 2018, the data syncs didn't change but my max attainable started to fall even further not long after. Quite shocked that a dlm reset didn't bump me back upto the max attainable. I have never had a 3db SNR it's always been 6, 7, 8, 10 and during the latest reset on the 25th 11db. Will see how things go but I will probably reduce the package to 55/10 and save myself some money or just go elsewhere at a cheaper price. I like the idea of static ip addresses, no web filtering etc so I'll probably still switch. A 24 month contract to stay with BT is also a bit of a turn off.
Is it only BT that supply the 55/10 package? Every other site seems to have the 40/10 and then the upto 80Mbps. Not that it matters much, if I went elsewhere at a cheaper cost and paid for the upto 80Mbps I would still be making a saving on my current one month rolling contract.
Something else I would like to know is which ISP provides the best router aside from AAISP? I will probably go back to the ISP supplied router when I come to a decision.
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I don’t see any need to go to ISP-supplied routers if you know and love your own particular devices. Clearly you might have pressure from some ISPs, understandably, to use their router so that tech support know what they’re dealing with, but if that is the case, I would regard that as a reason to avoid that particular ISP.
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Looks like the DLM reset has done as expected. Now you need to leave it alone for a few days and G.INP should kick back in. Just be patient and all should be good.
:)
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I think @tubaman has repeated my suggestion. Just leave it and hopefully you should get what you want.
I still don’t understand why you want to use a ISP supplied router, which are generally poor compared to such a good device you now have on the circuit. @weaver has also put this very clearly.
We can’t avoid cross talk it’s a feature of the technology which is now relatively out dated.
Hopefully by Easter you might get what your wanting!
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@Weaver I completely agree with you, I have never used ISP supplied routers as they are generally cheap and not very good, with a few exceptions, one being John Lewis Broadband who are actually operated by Plusnet and they supply or have done recently the Zyxel VMG8924-B30A which is so much better than than Plusnet's appalling HUB1 which is a re-hashed BT Home Hub 5A from years ago. They are still trying to fix Wi-Fi and other problems for over a year and still haven't got a stable firmware release. I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole. :D
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The HH5A is good as a modem on an ECI cabinet, that's about it. It just doesn't have the grunt to perform well on the WiFi. Although I did use one as a cheap WiFi Access Point for someone for many years with OpenWRT on it, was much more stable.
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Fair enough, I will just keep the ZyXEL VMG8924-B10A. Not happy with a few things with it though. Traffic status data usage is incorrectly reported "Roseway: the total is stored in a 32-bit unsigned integer which has a maximum value of 4,294,967,295. when the total exceeds this, the reported value rolls round to zero and starts counting up again." signal attenuation is unavailable, the system log monitor doesn't make much sense and the wifi is a bit iffy. A few things keep losing connection on both the 2.4ghz and 5ghz bands. I still haven't figured out how to get around firewall restrictions as well. The reason I prefer the ISP provided routers is because they are simple to use.
and yes I will leave everything alone and see what happens.
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We are in the final stretches of this thread now. Will update when the resets begin to happen, hopefully G.inp is turned back on and the connection stabilises. I have a sneaky feeling the data sync will begin to drop off again soon along with the noise margin increasing. We'll see. May also drop an update when and if I choose to switch ISP's. It's not really important information but I hate abrupt ending to threads with no conclusion.
The router hasn't reset since the dlm reset yesterday but these are the day 1 stats as an attachment as well as early 2017 HUB stats. I have asked a couple of times in this thread but had no response. What causes the line attenuation to increase? I was at 18.4 when the service was first installed, it then kept flicking between 18.2, 18.3 and 18.4 then started increasing after that. It was at 19 in 2019. Recently it was 19.5 and since the engineer visit it's gone upto 19.6. the CRC and ES errors + the amount of corrected errors in those stats don't look too promising. Screenshot was taken over half an hour ago and 54 CRC and 10 ES as of this post.
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Those ES are really low, the attenuation isnt measured and a estimate, to vary by that small amount isn’t out of the norm in my experience. I don’t believe the data rate will decrease as the noise margin reduces, what might happen is the line will get more noisy. It can’t just just lower the data rate the DLM could do that, but from the stats you have supplied really unlikely. Perhaps you might just think the engineer corrected an issue that was degrading over time and is now fixed.
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DSL Uptime 4 hours 29 minutes. G.Inp has been enabled. Line rate / data sync rate is now at 61.284 with a noise margin of 6.3 / 6.4 dB. Max attainable is between 61.300 and 62Mbps. Only a short length of uptime but 0 errors on the CRC, ES, SES etc at the moment on the downstream. Fec's at 797. I didn't want to bombard you all with screenshot after screenshot showing the exact same stats.
From line dslstats on G.INP Data Summary. Makes absolutely no sense to me, but that's the current settings. Also back to no delay on latency. I hope this remains stable but I'm a pessimist.
Downstream Upstream
General
rtx_tx 19621779 0
rtx_c 6021 0
rtx_uc 121989 0
LEFTRS 36 0
minEFTR 61272 0
errFreeBits 1956924301 0
Bearer 0
RxQueue 48 0
TxQueue 12 0
G.INP Framing 18 0
G.INP Lookback 12 0
RRC Bits 0 24
Interleave depth 8 1
INP 47.00 0.00
INPRein 0.00 0.00
Delay 0 0
Bearer 1
Interleave depth 1 0
INP 2.00 0.00
INPRein 2.00 0.00
Delay 0 0
One more thing does anybody know if John Lewis force reboots the modems like BT, Talktalk etc? I never did that supervisor telnet login on a older firmware to access the TR-069 and disable whatever I had to disable. I was just going to leave it as is but if the modem resets every 14,20,25,30 days I may have to do that soon. Current modem uptime is 14 days 9 hours.
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Excellent news - G.INP is doing exactly as we hoped. If the errors stay low you should find it dropping you to 3dB in 1dB steps over the next week or so, with commensurate speed increases at each step.
With respect to the regular reboots I believe only BT HomeHubs do that - have certainly never seen any reports of it occurring with other ISPs, so I wouldn't be concerned on that front.
:)
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All good news, I think your already at a speed better than you have had for some time.
As @tubaman says, it’s going to get better.
However be aware when you change ISP it will invoke a DLM reset so you will need to again wait for the stages, interleave - g.inp- lower SNRM
Note John Lewis is “Plusnet” some on here have found service lacking, although it’s good value. I’m moving my Plusnet line. To Zen next month.
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All good news, I think your already at a speed better than you have had for some time.
As @tubaman says, it’s going to get better.
However be aware when you change ISP it will invoke a DLM reset so you will need to again wait for the stages, interleave - g.inp- lower SNRM
Note John Lewis is “Plusnet” some on here have found service lacking, although it’s good value. I’m moving my Plusnet line. To Zen next month.
I wasn't considering John Lewis as an ISP. The VMG-8924-B10A I bought from Ebay is a John Lewis ISP router. I changed the PPPOE over to BT, upgraded the firmware but never did that TR-069 supervisory telnet login to wipe all traces of their service.
As for the ISP switch I will see what happens. If the line remains stable and BT adjust their estimates to fall in line with the improved conditions I may just stick with BT providing I can get it on a cheaper deal. As I have already mentioned though I do like the sound of a few of the features other ISP providers offer.
Seeing as I have commented I may as well provide a update. 14 hours 38 minutes and still 0 on everything on the CRC, ES, SES and the rest. I don't like these spikes in FEC's though. It's been trickling upwards but two short bursts of 3000 and 5000 have sent it upto 12980.
I couldn't make sense of the end of the comment you made yesterday. Do you mean that the corrosion on the wire may have been like that ever since the installation date in 2016? If that was the problem all along I'm surprised every other engineer overlooked it, all of them ended up at that telepole upon visits.
As for the speeds, yes it's been a fair while as I have always been banded with no DLM resets.
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Please don’t concern over FEC,s. I can get 1.3million in a 24hr period !
I would think with corrosion, it would start very minor and gradually get worse, following your experience with speeds.
Unfortunately there is a degree of variation between engineers. The last fault I had the first engineer closed the case as no fault found, I persisted and the second found two separate HR joints and completely fixed my circuit.
I really think your in a good place, shortly you should get the best speeds ever, something many would be jealous of :P
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As @g3uiss says just ignore the FECs - 5.3 million on my line in the last 24 hours and that's actually rather good compared with what I've seen in the past.
:)
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It as now started the process of lowering the SNR as you all said it would. We'll have to see whether it sticks or reverts back to 6dB. Weirdly though the throughput in speedtests as done the opposite and gone down a few mbps from 57 to 55 from the few sites I tested it on it was bouncing around in the high 40's then settled on 55, sometimes 56. Hopefully that throughput increases the next time the router resyncs providing the lower SNR remains stable.
You must all be getting sick of the questions but how does dlm manage upload? I have not brought it up once in this thread because it was the decline in download syncs I was more concerned about. The upload once upon a time was 19 or so Mbps, never really dropped as harshly as the download speeds in the sync rates, but one day that 19 became 16 and ever since it floats between 14 and 16. When I first setup this router it synced at 16Mbps (high 14's with the HUB), all these resyncs later and it's hovering just above 15Mbps again. Seems to be really inconsistent the upload.
I'll provide another update when it's looking stable at 3dB or when it reverts back to 6dB.
FYI that link time of 16 minutes in the screeny is inaccurate. Those error rates were based on the link uptime of 5 hours and 16 minutes.
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DLM tends not to use G.INP on the upload side so that will stay at 6dB SNR unless you have high error rates (which you don't). I say 'tends not to' as myself and others have seen it applied to the upload side but usually only for brief periods of a few days following large numbers of errors. For some reason it doesn't stick but I've no idea why.
The reason it changes speed a bit with each resync is just because the line conditions vary throughout the day and it'll sync at whatever speed equates to 6dB SNR at the point of the resync.
:)
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DLM tends not to use G.INP on the upload side so that will stay at 6dB SNR unless you have high error rates (which you don't). I say 'tends not to' as myself and others have seen it applied to the upload side but usually only for brief periods of a few days following large numbers of errors. For some reason it doesn't stick but I've no idea why.
The reason it changes speed a bit with each resync is just because the line conditions vary throughout the day and it'll sync at whatever speed equates to 6dB SNR at the point of the resync.
:)
Well, so far the data sync has increased 5 times since joining this forum. HH5 42Mbps (39Mbps throughput) VMG-8924 44Mbps (stayed at 39 then upon a resync 41Mbps throughput) post engineer visit 52Mbps (49Mbps throughput) G.INP enabled 61Mbps (57Mbps throughput) and now the 5dB noise margin test 63Mbps (55Mbps throughput) Surprisingly the sync rate changing slightly every resync whether up or down is something I was aware of. Also know about the overheads of around about 3Mbps from sync rate to throughput. If the 5dB noise margin does remain stable during this test, I just gotta hope the throughput will increase in the next router resync. It could fall apart soon but I'm surprised it's looking this stable, if it continues like this I could be back close to what I had originally.
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Im sure you will be. So far it’s followed exactly what we expected. I doubt you will have any issues going forward from the stats you have provided. Glad the forum had been a help. Hope you stay around 😀
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It appears the throughput vs sync rate issue is because of this
Downstream Upstream
General
rtx_tx 19634886 0
rtx_c 16626 0
rtx_uc 198687 0
LEFTRS 83 0
minEFTR 66419 0
errFreeBits 41764021 0
Bearer 0
RxQueue 75 0
TxQueue 15 0
G.INP Framing 18 0
G.INP Lookback 15 0
RRC Bits 0 24
Interleave depth 8 1
INP 55.00 0.00
INPRein 1.00 0.00
Delay 0 0
Bearer 1
Interleave depth 3 0
INP 4.50 0.00
INPRein 4.50 0.00
Delay 3 0
INPRein 1.00 was enabled when the SNR lowered to 5dB that was why my throughput went from 57 with G.INP to 55Mbps with 5dB SNR with INPRein 1.00.
It is currently at 4dB SNR @ 1 day 10 hours with 0 CRC, 0 ES, 0 SES and 290615 FEC with a 58Mbps throughput, a sync of 66432 and a max attainable of 69. Most of those FEC's occured in the space of 2 hours between 13:00 and 15:00 yesterday. Loud music was being played by one of the neighbours, not sure if that had anything to do with the huge spikes. I wasn't monitoring them via dslstats before then so I have no idea if these huge spikes are common around about the same time.
So what I wanted to ask is whether this INPRein being set to 1 is a temporary measure whilst the dlm tests the lower frequencies or is it here to stay?
I will do as intended and post the stats when it switches to 3dB or when it sticks to 4 or switches back to 5 or 6dB.
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INPRein=1 (ie Retransmission High) is the default with G.INP and will only revert back to 0 if you have very low ES rates. Others have more experience with this but from what I have read you might have to force a lower sync rate for a while to get DLM to remove it. Whether it's worth the hassle for a couple of Mbps is something only you can decide.
It's not something even worth trying on my line as it has periodic bursts of errors that would just undo it again.
:)
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It was only when the dlm tested 5dB and 4dB it switched to INPRein=1. It was set to 0 on all the other stats. If the dlm thinks my line can get to 3dB and the throughput hits 60Mbps I'll be more than pleased with those results if it remains stable.
use dslstats: config, advanced, to send a custom command. This:
adsl configure --maxDataRate 50000 20000 100000
Found the above command in https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,22086.105.html I have only posted the G.INP section of the dslstats recently but if anyone thinks INPREIN=0 with a lower dB would even be possible on my line please say.
I will still have to wait around regardless because it's testing 4dB noise margin at the moment with 0 errors on the downstream so far. If 0 is possible though I guess I just write the above command in 1. Tick 1 after a re-sync then send now? Then delete the command and send now if a re-sync occurs through dslstats?
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I'd leave it alone and wait for 3dB before trying anything else. There is a chance it'll put INPRein back to zero at that point given your very low errors but I think from what others have seen that is unlikely.
:)
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@BobC:
Have a look at this rather long post of a few years ago, contains a lot of very good information relating to your current situation.
https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,22086.msg379336.html#msg379336
As previously stated in this post, from personal experience on my line and as reported by many forum patrons, I don't believe that DS ES rate is the main criteria DLM considers with respect to DS G.Inp re-tx profile selection.
Have never seen any definitive explanation as to exactly what modem factors DLM monitors for re-tx profile selection but have found that significantly decreasing DS FEC error rate by modem DS speed capping the only way to achieve the desired result of low DS re-tx profile selection by DLM.
Of course, modem speed capping also reduces other factors such as G.Inp LEFTRS which is also believed to possibly be a DLM re-tx profile contributory factor.
My line would certainly sit for weeks/months with zero DS ES/SES rate and DS G.Inp re-tx profile high with DLM making no attempt to revert to low profile.
Did find that after a long period on re-tx high profile that quite a severe DS speed cap was required and DLM action could take a considerable time to revert to re-tx low profile.
Once DS re-tx low profile was attained found that DLM was more tolerant to higher DS FEC rates without re-application of re-tx high profile.
Regarding the modem speed clamping process:
I have always manually dropped the PPP session, powered down the modem and unplugged the data cable.
Re-powered the modem and entered the desired clamp rates from my Win 10 PC via Telnet.
Plugged in the data cable ensuring at least 30 mins. had elapsed from initial modem power down.
As I'am sure you know, the modem speed clamp won't survive a modem re-boot, will have to be re-entered.
I believe, entering the modem speed clamp command on a synch'ed line will cause an immediate re-synch, have never tried.
As advised, would still wait until DS 3dB SNRM is achieved, assuming your line can support this, before starting any speed capping operations.
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Approaching 2 days at 3dB now. FEC's are running rampant at 3dB. I just have one question regarding the noise margins is there a reason why my noise margin syncs are always .5 to .7 instead of 5, 4, 3dB? Right now it's 3.5dB, later on it will be 3.7 / 3.8, is that unusual?
Throughput is now 62-63Mbps. Current sync rate 71Mbps. IMPRein=1 is still enabled. Not tried that clamping method yet. Was hoping dlm would just change it back to low, but it seems the clamp is the only option, wish there was a simpler way than disconnecting everything tbh then rebooting with the command. I thought I would be able to just force the command. Telnet has been finnicky with me since getting this router setup. That dslstats approach seemed like a simpler method, but I don't want to be doing anything only to be making mistakes.
I just wanted to make a final note on ISP providers. I will probably stay with BT if I can get a good deal. Openreach's FTTP is not even in the planning here yet, I thought we would be one of the first areas to get it to take some of Virgin Media's Gigabit rollout custom but clearly not. If I can't get a good deal from BT then I will move to one of the other ISP's who use the speed profile. Plenty of options have been mentioned in this thread.
A massive thank you to all for your input.
My Broadband Ping (https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broadband/monitoring/quality/share/8d75b58c36db88666136e1e6f00204c5919ace0e)
xdslctl info --stats
xdslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason: 1
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 15212 Kbps, Downstream rate = 73475 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 15212 Kbps, Downstream rate = 71196 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 3.6 6.0
Attn(dB): 19.5 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 13.9 7.6
VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: -6 26
B: 243 237
M: 1 1
T: 0 64
R: 10 16
S: 0.0000 0.4977
L: 18620 4083
D: 8 1
I: 254 127
N: 254 254
Q: 8 0
V: 0 0
RxQueue: 80 0
TxQueue: 16 0
G.INP Framing: 18 0
G.INP lookback: 16 0
RRC bits: 0 24
Bearer 1
MSGc: 154 -6
B: 0 0
M: 2 0
T: 2 0
R: 16 0
S: 6.4000 0.0000
L: 40 0
D: 3 0
I: 32 0
N: 32 0
Q: 0 0
V: 0 0
RxQueue: 0 0
TxQueue: 0 0
G.INP Framing: 0 0
G.INP lookback: 0 0
RRC bits: 0 0
Counters
Bearer 0
OHF: 0 696185
OHFErr: 0 69
RS: 1418882544 3959291
RSCorr: 572711 486
RSUnCorr: 0 0
Bearer 1
OHF: 9743065 0
OHFErr: 0 0
RS: 97430039 0
RSCorr: 15 0
RSUnCorr: 0 0
Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx: 19651638 0
rtx_c: 31029 0
rtx_uc: 238026 0
G.INP Counters
LEFTRS: 103 0
minEFTR: 71193 0
errFreeBits: 1498801281 0
Bearer 0
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 4246756904 0
Data Cells: 420477738 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0
Bearer 1
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 0 0
Data Cells: 0 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0
ES: 78 784
SES: 66 0
UAS: 4547 4482
AS: 156538
Bearer 0
INP: 55.00 0.00
INPRein: 1.00 0.00
delay: 0 0
PER: 0.00 7.99
OR: 0.01 32.02
AgR: 71269.32 15243.66
Bearer 1
INP: 4.50 0.00
INPRein: 4.50 0.00
delay: 3 0
PER: 16.06 0.01
OR: 79.68 0.01
AgR: 79.68 0.01
Bitswap: 59212/59212 3767/3767
Since Link time = 1 days 19 hours 28 min 57 sec
FEC: 572711 486
CRC: 0 69
ES: 0 68
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
NTR: mipsCntAtNtr=0 ncoCntAtNtr=0
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You need to just ignore the FEC count - they are corrected errors that effectively didn't happen. Broadcom chips always sync at slightly above the exact SNR number, it's just the way they are. The small variation over time is normal too. If you really feel you need the few extra dB that INPRein=0 will give you then I suspect you'll need to try the clamping method as advised. Note of course that you've probably actually been running with INPRein=1 for years and just didn't know as you couldn't see the stats on an ISP supplied router.
:)
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Approaching 2 days at 3dB now. FEC's are running rampant at 3dB. I just have one question regarding the noise margins is there a reason why my noise margin syncs are always .5 to .7 instead of 5, 4, 3dB? Right now it's 3.5dB, later on it will be 3.7 / 3.8, is that unusual?
In a word, yes, would be quite unique to observe an active xDSL line "flat lining" on US/DS SNRM at any target level.
For reference, attach DSLStats SNRM 4 day graph on my 40/10 VDSL-2 service, probably as good as it gets on a very low noise line in a low population density area.
By comparison, my daughters line also on 40/10 VDSL-2 service, SNRM 4 day graph, noisy line in a high population density area.
Glad your line has now achieved 3dB DS SNRM target via normal DLM action.
If you are happy with your current DS synch and data speeds then do nothing further.
If you wish to try to achieve DS G.Inp re-tx low profile then modem speed limiting will very likely be required pending any further DLM intervention which I believe to be unlikely considering your reported very high DS FEC error rate.
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You need to just ignore the FEC count - they are corrected errors that effectively didn't happen. Broadcom chips always sync at slightly above the exact SNR number, it's just the way they are. The small variation over time is normal too. If you really feel you need the few extra dB that INPRein=0 will give you then I suspect you'll need to try the clamping method as advised. Note of course that you've probably actually been running with INPRein=1 for years and just didn't know as you couldn't see the stats on an ISP supplied router.
:)
Whenever I did a speedtest in the past the throughput was always 3Mbps lower than sync. I just took a look back at the screenshots I posted on this thread and I see the symbols were at 55 with INPRein=1 when I first setup the ZyXEL router, that may have happened because I had restarted the router 3 times in the space of a few hours, I noticed that throughput vs sync difference immediately. The Zyxel also synced at 44Mbps rather than the 42 on the HUB, so there may have just been a small delay to the correction. When the dsl uptime reset after 8 days the throughput was back down to 3Mbps lower than sync. That was the day before or the same day as the engineer arrived, fixed the wiring and did a dlm reset. At 6dB with G.INP activated IMPRein was set to 0. It was only when dlm tested 5,4,3 it switched to =1. This was the first time I had ever heard about two profiles (3% throughput loss vs 8%) so I may have not been able to see the stats properly in the past but I would have known about this higher throughput drop difference if my speedtest results were 8-9Mbps lower than sync in the past.
Thanks for those graphs Tiffy. I will start monitoring mine. When I had a look at the graph the other day mine looked more in the form of a small wave with some straight lines inbetween. I never leave the comp on overnight so I lose the stats unfortunately.
60+ Mbps is more than I could have ever hoped for. I was expecting my line to be suffering from lots of crosstalk, line instability caused from aluminium instead of copper etc. i didn't truly believe my line was capable of 60-70Mbps anymore. If things remain stable I may try that clamping approach at some point in the near future and see how things go.
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... so I may have not been able to see the stats properly in the past but I would have known about this higher throughput drop difference if my speedtest results were 8-9Mbps lower than sync in the past.
...
Fair comment. I think your line has, as many have, suffered from reduced speeds due to crosstalk as more people on your cabinet subscribed to FTTC services. You may be able to get a bit more out of it if you can encourage INPRein back to zero (ReTx Low) but other than than that what you are seeing now is as good as it will get. I'm glad you are pleased with the results and given the very low errors you are seeing I can't see why it shouldn't stay that way.
:)
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I will start monitoring mine. When I had a look at the graph the other day mine looked more in the form of a small wave with some straight lines inbetween. I never leave the comp on overnight so I lose the stats unfortunately.
I run DSLStats on a RPi 3B which runs 24/7, works very well.
My daughters 40/10 VDSL-2 service modem/router is monitored on a RPi Zero W powered from routers USB port, Wi-Fi connected and remotely accessable using VNC free, had the same setup on my sons line also, he has recently gone FTTP so no further need.
24/7 stat's monitoring is possible using a RPi Zero W for a very modest outlay but be warned, it can become addictive!
I first started when the fantastic MDWS facility was available and I worked away from home on a regular basis.
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I thought I would return and update.
The VMG-8924-B10A is having difficulties with the modem uptime. Modem uptime keeps resetting regularly. It started off with 28 days uptime then a few 20-25 days uptime but recently it's been restarting every single day. I reset it to factory settings and the issue still persists. Looks like it's dying already.
The download sync rate still syncs at 70-71Mbps but the upload continues to fall. On the BT Home Hub I was syncing at 14.8Mbps. Then it was 16Mbps on the VMG 8924 when first connected but now it's at 13Mbps. It's the lowest I have ever seen it.
I also decided to switch from BT to Zen. Slightly cheaper, 12 month contract, no price increases after contract and the static IP address were the reasons why. i'm still in the migrating period so I await a go live date. Hopefully the fast path latencies and download sync rate stays the same when the transfer is complete. I'm really not sure what's going on with the upload sync though. I will also probably switch to the Fritzbox 7530 that is provided by Zen when it eventually arrives only because the VMG 8924 is having problems staying up.
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Could be a dodgy PSU, that's literally my assumption for almost any problem.
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This will be my final update in this thread I promise.
Switched to Zen swapping out the VMG-8924-B10A for the FRITZ!Box 7530 and these are the results. VMG 8924-B10A synced at 56Mbps upon the switchover. The FRITZ!Box connected at 54Mbps, that as remained pretty much the same during the process of G.INP, SNR changes etc. Now at 69Mbps (throughput 66Mbps) no automatic transmission set to high during the SNR lowering on this modem. Upon each resync the current sync rate as remained lower than the max attainable (currently at 70926) The VMG-8924-B10A synced between 70-72Mbps on BT with everything enabled but the throughput between 61Mbps - 63Mbps due to the retransmission being set to high. There was a slight burst of downstream sync rate speeds a few days before the migration date. I was syncing at 75Mbps, will never be sure if that was a temporary boost or the new normal. The latencies have gone backwards a bit. With BT a ping to bbc was 8 or 9ms more often than not. With Zen it's 11 or 12ms.
The only slight critique I have with Zen at the moment is a bit of packetloss. Hopefully that can be ironed out in the coming weeks. I don't play games anywhere near as much as I used to but even with a wired ethernet connection I'm getting a couple of lag spikes every now and again on the one multiplayer game I still pop onto. Liking everything else about it thus far. Well, besides the upload but it appears that I'm stuck with the 13-15Mbps upstream with loads of ES / CRC errors. It would be nice if that could be resolved but it seems Openreach or ISP's have no interest about upload speeds even though for some people upstream is equally as important as downstream.
The only thing I'm a bit confused about is the Annex settings. On every other router it was set to Annex B but on Zen's pre-configured settings it was set to A. Not sure if that makes any difference to anything.
I told you I wouldn't end the thread without a resolution, conclusion, ending.
Thanks to everybody that helped me along the way in getting my connection sorted once and for all.
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There are two Annexes, one hardware & one software, for each and every VDSL2 (ITU-T G.993.2) circuit.
Hardware Annex A is xDSL over POTS. Hardware Annex B is xDSL over ISDN. In the UK only Annex A is used.
The software annex relates to the VDSL2 profile. In the UK it is Profile 17a.