Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => FTTC and FTTP Issues => Topic started by: daveesh1 on April 18, 2016, 01:18:32 PM
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Upgraded to new Infinty 1 speed which was completed this morning, but SNRM is still sat at 9dB and sync speed is still 32. Just spoke to BT and they have said the following
I have found a fault on the network - Impairment in copper joint detected most likely in local network.
Take it he means a bad connection ?
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Hmm, well to say I haven't been unbanded yet would probably mean a software fault, I hope I don't have a fault (did recently have a spike of 7 CRC's though).
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Checked my IP profile on BTW and it still says 30.69 and max achievable is 31.36 and acceptable speed is 21 to 31.36 surely this should of changed as well. Could it be as simply as a stuck profile?
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Yeah, definitely stuck. Going to get an engineer booked.
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I cant see how a FTTC profile can become stuck
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Got an Openreach engineer booked for Wednesday morning! Should be interesting!
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Least you managed to get an engineer booked they will not even go down that route till this so called fault is fixed time will tell
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Live chat is the way to go in this day and age!
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Got an Openreach engineer booked for Wednesday morning! Should be interesting!
Do you see the engineer appointment in your account or is it as an 'order'?
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I see it as an order but when I go to it it throws an error.
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I see it as an order but when I go to it it throws an error.
That's right then, they ordered a broadband boost task for your FTTC line. :fingers:
https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/solutions/engineeringsolutions/broadbandboost/broadbandboost.do
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Wooo, I still presume this is a phyiscal appointment to the premises though?
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Wooo, I still presume this is a phyiscal appointment to the premises though?
Yes of course. Try and get the engineer to see if he can put you in the best pair in the cabinet to get the best sync.
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Wooo, I still presume this is a phyiscal appointment to the premises though?
Yes of course. Try and get the engineer to see if he can put you in the best pair in the cabinet to get the best sync.
Yes, I think we were put on the best pair back in early 2015.
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I'm not sure that the engineer is able to determine what is the best pair. But in any case I doubt very much that he will shift you unless he finds an actual fault.
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I'm not sure that the engineer is able to determine what is the best pair. But in any case I doubt very much that he will shift you unless he finds an actual fault.
That's what I think.
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I'm not sure that the engineer is able to determine what is the best pair. But in any case I doubt very much that he will shift you unless he finds an actual fault.
I agree but there's no harm in trying :D
Maybe tea and biscuits. :fingers:
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I'm not sure that the engineer is able to determine what is the best pair. But in any case I doubt very much that he will shift you unless he finds an actual fault.
I agree but there's no harm in trying :D
Maybe tea and biscuits. :fingers:
I need to write that last line down, it may work for future reference. ;)
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I'm not sure that the engineer is able to determine what is the best pair. But in any case I doubt very much that he will shift you unless he finds an actual fault.
I agree but there's no harm in trying :D
Maybe tea and biscuits. :fingers:
I need to write that last line down, it may work for future reference. ;)
I was also thinking if you ask nicely the engineer may also fit the newer MK3 faceplate.
Could you ask also if they have the capability to request a 3 dB profile?
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Could you ask also if they have the capability to request a 3 dB profile?
They won't be able to do this - the variable dB profiles are a trial. Given William's history, I would take an unbanded line at 6dB as a win and retain the engineers goodwill..
Even when it's out of trial, the target dB will be controlled by DLM not manually
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I've got an SSFP already installed so that's good.
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I've got an SSFP already installed so that's good.
Did you have a previous line fault by any chance?
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Yes, I've had several between 2012 and 2015.
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I've had 21175 FEC's in 4 hours. That sounds a lot to me...
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Just had BT engineer turn up. Changed pairs to cabinet DLM reset and speed now as follows:-
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason: 0
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 8435 Kbps, Downstream rate = 46162 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 8117 Kbps, Downstream rate = 46084 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 6.3 6.2
Attn(dB): 22.3 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 6.4 6.4
VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: 16 33
B: 207 238
M: 1 1
T: 64 22
R: 4 16
S: 0.1436 0.9362
L: 11808 2179
D: 1 1
I: 212 255
N: 212 255
Counters
Bearer 0
OHF: 63283 9411
OHFErr: 69 0
RS: 4022400 620965
RSCorr: 593 0
RSUnCorr: 799 0
Bearer 0
HEC: 862 0
OCD: 1 0
LCD: 1 0
Total Cells: 12938077 0
Data Cells: 97104 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0
ES: 8 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 27 27
AS: 146
Bearer 0
INP: 0.00 0.00
INPRein: 0.00 0.00
delay: 0 0
PER: 2.30 15.50
OR: 76.28 20.11
AgR: 46160.51 8137.32
Bitswap: 20/20 0/05
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How quick was that? :O
May I ask how you got an engineer immediately? I got mine for Wednesday!
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Was Quick was not expecting them well least it is done now.
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Was Quick was not expecting them well least it is done now.
Hmm, I might get on live chat see if they can get me in tomorrow...
I tell you what, your line has gone really bad now...
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I have no idea how it was so quick they even told me he would not need access to the house.
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Nice one daveesh1, your speed jump from 32 to 46Mbps is a a good result!
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I have no idea how it was so quick they even told me he would not need access to the house.
Yes, but somehow you managed to get one for today, that's the odd thing... Was this via bt chat?
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Its called luck of the draw. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Also puzzled how you were able to get an appt today - but well done.
Im also curious. There appears to be 2 types of DLM reset. :-\
You now seem to be on an open profile.
Yet supposedly lines when reset are meant to have interleaving applied by default. - The latter is what Ian described and it is what we've seen in plenty of other cases.
I wonder if its anything to do with the pair swap?
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What's interesting is I'm now getting more ES than ever... Even HEC's an RS Uncorrectable Errors are occuring! :/
xDSL
Mode VDSL2
Traffic Type PTM
Status Up
Link Power State L0
Downstream Upstream
Line Coding (Trellis) On On
SNR Margin (dB) 6.6 6.3
Attenuation (dB) 25.8 0.0
Output Power (dBm) 12.0 5.8
Attainable Rate (Kbps) 45458 8015
Rate (Kbps) 34999 8015
B (# of bytes in Mux Data Frame) 47 239
M (# of Mux Data Frames in an RS codeword) 1 1
T (# of Mux Data Frames in an OH sub-frame) 64 42
R (# of redundancy bytes in the RS codeword) 14 0
S (# of data symbols over which the RS code word spans) 0.0436 0.9514
L (# of bits transmitted in each data symbol) 11368 2018
D (interleaver depth) 743 1
I (interleaver block size in bytes) 62 120
N (RS codeword size) 62 240
Delay (msec) 8 0
INP (DMT symbol) 3.50 0.00
OH Frames 1157914 321353
OH Frame Errors 2 1
RS Words 296335661 767079
RS Correctable Errors 5147 0
RS Uncorrectable Errors 21 0
HEC Errors 6 0
OCD Errors 0 0
LCD Errors 0 0
Total Cells 218471761 0
Data Cells 4946678 0
Bit Errors 0 0
Total ES 1 1
Total SES 0 0
Total UAS 30 30
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@daveesh1, did you ask the engineer if it was normal for lines to not be unbanded after a package upgrade?
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Yes and he was helpfully, Once the line is banded then it will need a DLM reset to remove it. DLM can remove/increase interleaving and SNR
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What's interesting is I'm now getting more ES than ever... Even HEC's an RS Uncorrectable Errors are occuring! :/
Thats because your line has had g.inp removed and interleaving applied.
Interleaving and Forward Error Correction will be taking up a good chunk of speed available for sync.
This is the reason why I thought dave's reset was interesting because he has been reset on the open profile.
It looks like your reset only removed g.inp... and why I said "There appears to be 2 types of DLM reset. :-\"
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What's interesting is I'm now getting more ES than ever... Even HEC's an RS Uncorrectable Errors are occuring! :/
Thats because your line has had g.inp removed and interleaving applied.
Interleaving and Forward Error Correction will be taking up a good chunk of speed available for sync.
This is the reason why I thought dave's reset was interesting because he has been reset on the open profile.
It looks like your reset only removed g.inp... and why I said "There appears to be 2 types of DLM reset. :-\"
Yes, which is frustrating. I hope the Openreach engineer on Wednesday is the guy we know personally otherwise it could be hard to get a DLM reset.
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Kitz before the engineer came my upgrade went the same as Williams Ginp removed attainable increased but a huge chunk of interleaving keeping sync at 32000.
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Well, I've just spoke to one of the BT live chat advisors and unfortunately the Openreach engineer visit is now Friday morning, could my luck get any worse. :(
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William soon as my engineer arrived plugged his kit in he said he would do a DLM reset before even looking at changing pairs and things and his reason for this was the huge difference in attainable and sync The only reason he changed the pairs is he said he could hear a faint hum on the line with his butt. Phone. Going by my engineer today I I think If the engineer see a big difference between attainable and sync then he or she will do a DLM reset. I have had 3 engineers in the last 2.5 years and each time they have done a DLM reset fault or no fault and I have not been charged.
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Well let's see if I get G.inp re-enabled and if so if I now see an increase in speed or a slight loss as before.
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Well, I've just spoke to one of the BT live chat advisors and unfortunately the Openreach engineer visit is now Friday morning, could my luck get any worse. :(
Was it offshore support you asked since UK live chat closes at 5pm?
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Was Quick was not expecting them well least it is done now.
That was a very quick engineer callout indeed! I'm gobsmacked really! :lol:
Cheers
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William just be aware if you achieve a DLM reset (sorry for my wrong info by the way, past history suggested a band removal with change fo product, but clearly that doesnt seem to apply in this case) then you will be interleaved, as a open profile on a g.inp enabled line has interleaving, so dont throw a fit when it happens, dont swap out your modem, keep disconnecting the line, just leave it alone. g.inp will eventually return.
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William soon as my engineer arrived plugged his kit in he said he would do a DLM reset before even looking at changing pairs and things and his reason for this was the huge difference in attainable and sync The only reason he changed the pairs is he said he could hear a faint hum on the line with his butt. Phone. Going by my engineer today I I think If the engineer see a big difference between attainable and sync then he or she will do a DLM reset. I have had 3 engineers in the last 2.5 years and each time they have done a DLM reset fault or no fault and I have not been charged.
congrats, but just be aware a pair swap is at the engineer discretion, one engineer may do a swap for a "hum" another will say the "hum" is normal or inaudible and walk out. Personally i have never had a swap for such a minor thing, I guess you had a sympathetic engineer who was happy to just have one little excuse to do the swap.
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Well, I've just spoke to one of the BT live chat advisors and unfortunately the Openreach engineer visit is now Friday morning, could my luck get any worse. :(
I would say the G.INP being removed is the problem. As Kitz mentioned there seems to be 2 types of DLM reset.
I wouldn't say you're being banded more a case of the line is now "working at its best" as the G.INP isn't available to help it correct errors and deal with crosstalk/noise etc.
It would have probably fixed itself in a week or two, but cross fingers your engineer appointment could sort it, but it's all down to luck :) :fingers:
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Well, I've just spoke to one of the BT live chat advisors and unfortunately the Openreach engineer visit is now Friday morning, could my luck get any worse. :(
I would say the G.INP being removed is the problem. As Kitz mentioned there seems to be 2 types of DLM reset.
I wouldn't say you're being banded more a case of the line is now "working at its best" as the G.INP isn't available to help it correct errors and deal with crosstalk/noise etc.
It would have probably fixed itself in a week or two, but cross fingers your engineer appointment could sort it, but it's all down to luck :) :fingers:
Yeah, I think so. It may be that even later tomorrow my speed may have increased... :D
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Yeah, I think so. It may be that even later tomorrow my speed may have increased... :D
All depends, DLM is an unknown beast still! Usually takes up to a fortnight, all depends on the DLM indicators, if you use the MDWS site that will give you a good idea what the DLM "sees" :)
[Moderator edited to fix the broken [quote][/quote] tags.]
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Just rebooted the router and my Downstream interleaver depth has dropped a bit more but my Downstream G.INP has decreased as well... :/
xDSL
Mode VDSL2
Traffic Type PTM
Status Up
Link Power State L0
Downstream Upstream
Line Coding (Trellis) On On
SNR Margin (dB) 6.4 6.2
Attenuation (dB) 25.8 0.0
Output Power (dBm) 12.1 5.6
Attainable Rate (Kbps) 44067 8007
Rate (Kbps) 34999 8007
B (# of bytes in Mux Data Frame) 57 239
M (# of Mux Data Frames in an RS codeword) 1 1
T (# of Mux Data Frames in an OH sub-frame) 62 42
R (# of redundancy bytes in the RS codeword) 16 0
S (# of data symbols over which the RS code word spans) 0.0527 0.9524
L (# of bits transmitted in each data symbol) 11232 2016
D (interleaver depth) 613 1
I (interleaver block size in bytes) 74 120
N (RS codeword size) 74 240
Delay (msec) 8 0
INP (DMT symbol) 3.00 0.00
OH Frames 21943 5345
OH Frame Errors 0 0
RS Words 4006618 222944
RS Correctable Errors 214 0
RS Uncorrectable Errors 0 0
HEC Errors 0 0
OCD Errors 0 0
LCD Errors 0 0
Total Cells 3633886 0
Data Cells 215745 0
Bit Errors 0 0
Total ES 0 0
Total SES 0 0
Total UAS 30 30
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Please cease rebooting the router. It will mess up your DLM.
Anyway, you're going to get an engineer to reset the DLM so I suppose it's fine.
Just rebooted the router and my Downstream interleaver depth has dropped a bit more but my Downstream G.INP has decreased as well... :/
xDSL
Mode VDSL2
Traffic Type PTM
Status Up
Link Power State L0
Downstream Upstream
Line Coding (Trellis) On On
SNR Margin (dB) 6.4 6.2
Attenuation (dB) 25.8 0.0
Output Power (dBm) 12.1 5.6
Attainable Rate (Kbps) 44067 8007
Rate (Kbps) 34999 8007
B (# of bytes in Mux Data Frame) 57 239
M (# of Mux Data Frames in an RS codeword) 1 1
T (# of Mux Data Frames in an OH sub-frame) 62 42
R (# of redundancy bytes in the RS codeword) 16 0
S (# of data symbols over which the RS code word spans) 0.0527 0.9524
L (# of bits transmitted in each data symbol) 11232 2016
D (interleaver depth) 613 1
I (interleaver block size in bytes) 74 120
N (RS codeword size) 74 240
Delay (msec) 8 0
INP (DMT symbol) 3.00 0.00
OH Frames 21943 5345
OH Frame Errors 0 0
RS Words 4006618 222944
RS Correctable Errors 214 0
RS Uncorrectable Errors 0 0
HEC Errors 0 0
OCD Errors 0 0
LCD Errors 0 0
Total Cells 3633886 0
Data Cells 215745 0
Bit Errors 0 0
Total ES 0 0
Total SES 0 0
Total UAS 30 30
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Please cease rebooting the router. It will mess up your DLM.
Anyway, you're going to get an engineer to reset the DLM so I suppose it's fine.
Just rebooted the router and my Downstream interleaver depth has dropped a bit more but my Downstream G.INP has decreased as well... :/
xDSL
Mode VDSL2
Traffic Type PTM
Status Up
Link Power State L0
Downstream Upstream
Line Coding (Trellis) On On
SNR Margin (dB) 6.4 6.2
Attenuation (dB) 25.8 0.0
Output Power (dBm) 12.1 5.6
Attainable Rate (Kbps) 44067 8007
Rate (Kbps) 34999 8007
B (# of bytes in Mux Data Frame) 57 239
M (# of Mux Data Frames in an RS codeword) 1 1
T (# of Mux Data Frames in an OH sub-frame) 62 42
R (# of redundancy bytes in the RS codeword) 16 0
S (# of data symbols over which the RS code word spans) 0.0527 0.9524
L (# of bits transmitted in each data symbol) 11232 2016
D (interleaver depth) 613 1
I (interleaver block size in bytes) 74 120
N (RS codeword size) 74 240
Delay (msec) 8 0
INP (DMT symbol) 3.00 0.00
OH Frames 21943 5345
OH Frame Errors 0 0
RS Words 4006618 222944
RS Correctable Errors 214 0
RS Uncorrectable Errors 0 0
HEC Errors 0 0
OCD Errors 0 0
LCD Errors 0 0
Total Cells 3633886 0
Data Cells 215745 0
Bit Errors 0 0
Total ES 0 0
Total SES 0 0
Total UAS 30 30
I'm on an open profile now so it wouldn't upset it.
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I give up, you just ignoring all advice.
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William just be aware if you achieve a DLM reset (sorry for my wrong info by the way, past history suggested a band removal with change fo product, but clearly that doesnt seem to apply in this case) then you will be interleaved, as a open profile on a g.inp enabled line has interleaving, so dont throw a fit when it happens, dont swap out your modem, keep disconnecting the line, just leave it alone. g.inp will eventually return.
Seriously? Does it mean my latency will go up as well?
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Also puzzled how you were able to get an appt today - but well done.
Im also curious. There appears to be 2 types of DLM reset. :-\
You now seem to be on an open profile.
Yet supposedly lines when reset are meant to have interleaving applied by default. - The latter is what Ian described and it is what we've seen in plenty of other cases.
I wonder if its anything to do with the pair swap?
one type that doesnt reset banding you mean?
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William just be aware if you achieve a DLM reset (sorry for my wrong info by the way, past history suggested a band removal with change fo product, but clearly that doesnt seem to apply in this case) then you will be interleaved, as a open profile on a g.inp enabled line has interleaving, so dont throw a fit when it happens, dont swap out your modem, keep disconnecting the line, just leave it alone. g.inp will eventually return.
I won't then, I'm not worried about G.INP I just want 45 Mbps. :(
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I'm on an open profile now so it wouldn't upset it.
DLM can still intervene, it happened on my line, too many resyncs and bam - following morning banded to 20mbps. Was during work by electricians in the house.
Was a few years back, but DLM is smarter than we think.
Take everyone's advice here and just leave well alone, DLM is designed to deal with these issues and increase speeds, provided it's not confused by rogue resyncs. Leave it alone and it will get fixed all by itself.
I won't then, I'm not worried about G.INP I just want 45 Mbps. :(
You should be worried as that is the main variable currently affecting your speed - the lack of G.INP is causing your lack of 45mbps in my opinion.
G.INP will increase your attainable further, and get your sync closer to your estimate.
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I'm on an open profile now so it wouldn't upset it.
DLM can still intervene, it happened on my line, too many resyncs and bam - following morning banded to 20mbps. Was during work by electricians in the house.
Was a few years back, but DLM is smarter than we think.
Take everyone's advice here and just leave well alone, DLM is designed to deal with these issues and increase speeds, provided it's not confused by rogue resyncs. Leave it alone and it will get fixed all by itself.
I won't then, I'm not worried about G.INP I just want 45 Mbps. :(
You should be worried as that is the main variable currently affecting your speed - the lack of G.INP is causing your lack of 45mbps in my opinion.
G.INP will increase your attainable further, and get your sync closer to your estimate.
Ok, I think I've reboot 4 maybe 5 times today so it's not within the MTBR red bracket. :) I'll leave it alone now, just sometimes the speed increase can get stuck and not come through.
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William just be aware if you achieve a DLM reset (sorry for my wrong info by the way, past history suggested a band removal with change fo product, but clearly that doesnt seem to apply in this case) then you will be interleaved, as a open profile on a g.inp enabled line has interleaving, so dont throw a fit when it happens, dont swap out your modem, keep disconnecting the line, just leave it alone. g.inp will eventually return.
I won't then, I'm not worried about G.INP I just want 45 Mbps. :(
I am sure you do not want it, your SnR will be about 6.0dB as you will be getting near full sync your line can handle and SnR may drop below 6.0dB of what I heard it is bad.
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William just be aware if you achieve a DLM reset (sorry for my wrong info by the way, past history suggested a band removal with change fo product, but clearly that doesnt seem to apply in this case) then you will be interleaved, as a open profile on a g.inp enabled line has interleaving, so dont throw a fit when it happens, dont swap out your modem, keep disconnecting the line, just leave it alone. g.inp will eventually return.
I won't then, I'm not worried about G.INP I just want 45 Mbps. :(
I am sure you do not want it, your SnR will be about 6.0dB as you will be getting near full sync your line can handle and SnR may drop below 6.0dB of what I heard it is bad.
Is that a joke? I'm really confused. I probably do want G.INP... :lol:
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I give up, you just ignoring all advice.
I'm sorry?
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William just be aware if you achieve a DLM reset (sorry for my wrong info by the way, past history suggested a band removal with change fo product, but clearly that doesnt seem to apply in this case) then you will be interleaved, as a open profile on a g.inp enabled line has interleaving, so dont throw a fit when it happens, dont swap out your modem, keep disconnecting the line, just leave it alone. g.inp will eventually return.
I won't then, I'm not worried about G.INP I just want 45 Mbps. :(
I am sure you do not want it, your SnR will be about 6.0dB as you will be getting near full sync your line can handle and SnR may drop below 6.0dB of what I heard it is bad.
Is that a joke? I'm really confused. I probably do want G.INP... :lol:
What I mean is that SnR drops mostly in evenings, like mine drops from 11dB to 10.1dB, I had an issue with that in the past when it was dropping to 5.2dB making my internet unusable with constant packet loss. Thats why I am a bit worried as I will be getting nearly 50mbps with SnR about 6.0dB dropping to 5.x dB in the evenings.
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Ok, I think I've reboot 4 maybe 5 times today so it's not within the MTBR red bracket. :) I'll leave it alone now, just sometimes the speed increase can get stuck and not come through.
From my experience and I'm sure more experienced on here would agree, resyncing yourself won't "unstick" anything. DLM makes changes and will force resyncs to make those changes take affect.
A manual resync 99% of the time does nothing more than mess about with your DLM profiling data.
You could continue uploading to MDWS to get a much better picture of the line as it is now, this and the traffic light indicators will greatly help to see whats going on :)
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What I mean is that SnR drops mostly in evenings, like mine drops from 11dB to 10.1dB, I had an issue with that in the past when it was dropping to 5.2dB making my internet unusable with constant packet loss.
G.INP helps fight these random noise spikes. For example the SNR may drop, but the G.INP correction processes avoid the Errored Seconds occurring, which is what cause the internet to appear to grind to a halt.
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The only slightly worrying thing is that 31075 FEC's have occured on my line in just over 28 minutes...
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What I mean is that SnR drops mostly in evenings, like mine drops from 11dB to 10.1dB, I had an issue with that in the past when it was dropping to 5.2dB making my internet unusable with constant packet loss.
G.INP helps fight these random noise spikes. For example the SNR may drop, but the G.INP correction processes avoid the Errored Seconds occurring, which is what cause the internet to appear to grind to a halt.
Well, as someone above said that G.INP will be disabled after changing the package (DLM reset) with interleaving turned on. Am a bit confused, does interleaving turned on means that the latency will go up even on open profile for the first 10 days or so?
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The only slightly worrying thing is that 31075 FEC's have occured on my line in just over 28 minutes...
FECs are normal. In the last 24 hours my line has produced 2,611,363 Fec errors - sounds like loads. But they are corrected packets and therefore not an issue. The ES are what to watch for.
My line syncs at 79,999 and 19,999kbps and has a ping of 12ms, millions of FEC errors, no affect on service.
If you had the equivalent in ES, then we'd have an issue :)
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Well, as someone above said that G.INP will be disabled after changing the package (DLM reset) with interleaving turned on. Am a bit confused, does interleaving turned on means that the latency will go up even on open profile for the first 10 days or so?
A DLM reset switches off the G.INP on your line. DLM then works in the background and decides whether it should turn it back on. You had it before so it will be added back but this takes time.
Currently you're interleaved, therefore yes you'll have a higher than usual Ping time. But when G.INP is applied, your delay will decrease. Is this what were you confused about?
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The only slightly worrying thing is that 31075 FEC's have occured on my line in just over 28 minutes...
FECs are normal. In the last 24 hours my line has produced 2,611,363 Fec errors - sounds like loads. But they are corrected packets and therefore not an issue. The ES are what to watch for.
My line syncs at 79,999 and 19,999kbps and has a ping of 12ms, millions of FEC errors, no affect on service.
If you had the equivalent in ES, then we'd have an issue :)
That many FEC errors means that you are interleaved, how could you have such low latency being interleaved?
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That many FEC errors means that you are interleaved, how could you have such low latency being interleaved?
My line has G.INP applied - which produces FEC errors as part of the correction process. G.INP is like interleaving, but without the latency increase.
Both an interleaved and G.INP applied line will show FEC errors, the way to notice the difference is the Delay shown in your stats will be 0 for G.INP as opposed to interleaving. The INP value on a G.INP line is in the 40s normally as opposed to an Interleaved line where it's normally 3.
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Well, as someone above said that G.INP will be disabled after changing the package (DLM reset) with interleaving turned on. Am a bit confused, does interleaving turned on means that the latency will go up even on open profile for the first 10 days or so?
A DLM reset switches off the G.INP on your line. DLM then works in the background and decides whether it should turn it back on. You had it before so it will be added back but this takes time.
Currently you're interleaved, therefore yes you'll have a higher than usual Ping time. But when G.INP is applied, your delay will decrease. Is this what were you confused about?
Sort of, just I am not interleaved, I have G.INP enabled on my line with ping time of 11-12ms. The only thing is that my package will be upgraded tomorrow from 39999 to about 48-50mbps hence I am asking what will happen on my line without G.INP. I thought the open profile means no interleaving and lowest latency possible.
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Wait, so let me get this straight, if G.INP switches back on on my line and my interleaver depth decreases, my speed will go back up to nearer the attainable? Is that correct?
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Sort of, just I am not interleaved, I have G.INP enabled on my line with ping time of 11-12ms. The only thing is that my package will be upgraded tomorrow from 39999 to about 48-50mbps hence I am asking what will happen on my line without G.INP. I thought the open profile means no interleaving and lowest latency possible.
Hopefully, not much but it's possible you may get banded, have terrible latency and get frustrated to the point that an Openreach engineer on this forum blocks you. Hehe!
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Wait, so let me get this straight, if G.INP switches back on on my line and my interleaver depth decreases, my speed will go back up to nearer the attainable? Is that correct?
Yes. G.INP switches on and your delay will be 0 usually. But the INP value increases a lot, this is the indicator G.INP has switched on.
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Sort of, just I am not interleaved, I have G.INP enabled on my line with ping time of 11-12ms. The only thing is that my package will be upgraded tomorrow from 39999 to about 48-50mbps hence I am asking what will happen on my line without G.INP. I thought the open profile means no interleaving and lowest latency possible.
Hopefully, not much but it's possible you may get banded, have terrible latency and get frustrated to the point that an Openreach engineer on this forum blocks you. Hehe!
Fingers crossed everything will stay as it is now, except speed increase without any banding :D
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Wait, so let me get this straight, if G.INP switches back on on my line and my interleaver depth decreases, my speed will go back up to nearer the attainable? Is that correct?
Yes. G.INP switches on and your delay will be 0 usually. But the INP value increases a lot, this is the indicator G.INP has switched on.
And...with the increase in INP, the increase in Downstream Rate? Yaah!
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Sort of, just I am not interleaved, I have G.INP enabled on my line with ping time of 11-12ms. The only thing is that my package will be upgraded tomorrow from 39999 to about 48-50mbps hence I am asking what will happen on my line without G.INP. I thought the open profile means no interleaving and lowest latency possible.
Ok, so hyptothetically say I was in your position.
I currently get 79,999kbps sync, and my DLM was reset.
I would then go to an open profile and yes you are correct interleave is turned off. However as G.INP does such a good job for my line, my sync would go down to 69 - 72mbps so I lose around 10,000kbps sync speed. My SNR would still be 6dB and my ping still low, but DLM could then find the line to be unstable after this, and then apply one of two things.
It will either apply G.INP which is what you want.
Or its mean and applies Interleaving.
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Wait, so let me get this straight, if G.INP switches back on on my line and my interleaver depth decreases, my speed will go back up to nearer the attainable? Is that correct?
Yes. G.INP switches on and your delay will be 0 usually. But the INP value increases a lot, this is the indicator G.INP has switched on.
Well, I can't see any advanced stats on my TP-Link TD-W9980. Just some basics. Lets just hope that my latency will stay the same.
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Ok, so hyptothetically say I was in your position.
I currently get 79,999kbps sync, and my DLM was reset.
I would then go to an open profile and yes you are correct interleave is turned off. However as G.INP does such a good job for my line, my sync would go down to 69 - 72mbps so I lose around 10,000kbps sync speed. My SNR would still be 6dB and my ping still low, but DLM could then find the line to be unstable after this, and then apply one of two things.
It will either apply G.INP which is what you want.
Or its mean and applies Interleaving.
The issue I have here is that if my DLM is reset by the engineer the introduction of G.INP might be delayed. :O
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Wait, so let me get this straight, if G.INP switches back on on my line and my interleaver depth decreases, my speed will go back up to nearer the attainable? Is that correct?
Yes. G.INP switches on and your delay will be 0 usually. But the INP value increases a lot, this is the indicator G.INP has switched on.
And...with the increase in INP, the increase in Downstream Rate? Yaah!
Exactly, that's part of it. G.INP does other things other than increase the INP value of a connection. But thats the basics yes.
FEC errors are normal for a G.INPed line, as mine shows.
You're going to get a DLM reset on Friday (hopefully :fingers: ) which should put you on an open profile.
You will still need to wait for G.INP to be applied as you may find without interleaving which you have now, your line isn't stable enough. So DLM applies harsh interleave first, then G.INP afterwards (this is what happened to my line).
Are you experiencing any packet loss currently, or just pathetic pings? Packet loss could indicate lots of ES, and therefore further action by DLM overnight (maybe worse though and not G.INP)
Without real time stats, this is difficult to predict.
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Exactly, that's part of it. G.INP does other things other than increase the INP value of a connection. But thats the basics yes.
FEC errors are normal for a G.INPed line, as mine shows.
You're going to get a DLM reset on Friday (hopefully :fingers: ) which should put you on an open profile.
You will still need to wait for G.INP to be applied as you may find without interleaving which you have now, your line isn't stable enough. So DLM applies harsh interleave first, then G.INP afterwards (this is what happened to my line).
Are you experiencing any packet loss currently, or just pathetic pings? Packet loss could indicate lots of ES, and therefore further action by DLM overnight (maybe worse though and not G.INP)
Without real time stats, this is difficult to predict.
No packet loss, just pathetic 30 - 35 ms pings...
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No packet loss, just pathetic 30 - 35 ms pings...
Just give it time then :) you really should upload to MDWS if you want to have a good idea yourself William :)
But to be honest, just wait until Friday. I used to be always watching and waiting and then stopped, and then it all happened overnight one evening to my surprise!
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No packet loss, just pathetic 30 - 35 ms pings...
Just give it time then :) you really should upload to MDWS if you want to have a good idea yourself William :)
But to be honest, just wait until Friday. I used to be always watching and waiting and then stopped, and then it all happened overnight one evening to my surprise!
Yeah, it seems to happen with me, I want something then forget about it and then it happens! :D
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Wait, so let me get this straight, if G.INP switches back on on my line and my interleaver depth decreases, my speed will go back up to nearer the attainable? Is that correct?
Yes. G.INP switches on and your delay will be 0 usually. But the INP value increases a lot, this is the indicator G.INP has switched on.
And...with the increase in INP, the increase in Downstream Rate? Yaah!
Exactly, that's part of it. G.INP does other things other than increase the INP value of a connection. But thats the basics yes.
FEC errors are normal for a G.INPed line, as mine shows.
You're going to get a DLM reset on Friday (hopefully :fingers: ) which should put you on an open profile.
You will still need to wait for G.INP to be applied as you may find without interleaving which you have now, your line isn't stable enough. So DLM applies harsh interleave first, then G.INP afterwards (this is what happened to my line).
Are you experiencing any packet loss currently, or just pathetic pings? Packet loss could indicate lots of ES, and therefore further action by DLM overnight (maybe worse though and not G.INP)
Without real time stats, this is difficult to predict.
I used to get about 600-700 ES per 24 hours before the G.INP was applied to my line and I still was on fast path with ping of 12ms for like 6 months. No packet loss either.
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I did tell you contact your ISP to send out a engineer to fix your banding but now you have been contracted into an other year and you won't see any benefit of this 55/10 service or a new modem.
you went from £15 a month to £25 that = £120 over 12 months and a charge for an OR visiit £139.40 excluding vat you never did the maths did you :(
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I did tell you contact your ISP to send out a engineer to fix your banding but now you have been contracted into an other year and you won't see any benefit of this 55/10 service or a new modem.
you went from £15 a month to £25 that = £120 over 12 months and a charge for an OR visiit £139.40 excluding vat you never did the maths did you :(
Please include names as I'm really confused. Is this me? I won't get charged! I will see the benefit, my attainable is nearly 50 Mbps!
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lets say your attainable sync rate is 49999Kbps and your sync rate is 48000Kbps - 3.2% you should get an IP profile of 46.4 compared to 38.4 so 8 Mbps more but was it worth it ?
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It would be 49999 I would hope? Yes, it was as it's a faster speed, I get my line reset and no charge because it was a package issue...
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It would be 49999 I would hope? Yes, it was as it's a faster speed, I get my line reset and no charge because it was a package issue...
But is the extra cost of £120 per the contact period (12 months) worth that extra 8Mbps seems a lot to me :-\
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I'm sure many of us hope you get 49999 but realistically it will be around 46-47 max. That's double my speed!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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It would be 49999 I would hope? Yes, it was as it's a faster speed, I get my line reset and no charge because it was a package issue...
But is the extra cost of £120 per the contact period (12 months) worth that extra 8Mbps seems a lot to me :-\
Well, seen as there was no "extra cost" and we'd have been with BT for a year anyway then yes.
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It would be 49999 I would hope? Yes, it was as it's a faster speed, I get my line reset and no charge because it was a package issue...
Not necessarily to be honest, all depends on the state of the line. Could be lower, depends on the G.INP and how that works.
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Oh, mine just resynced few minutes ago. New Infinity 1 up to 52 mbps welcome! :P
45mbps on speedtest so gained about 8mbps, upload stayed the same though. Attainable went down from about 50000 to 48000 with SnR of 6.1dB. Also the most important thing latency is the same 12ms!
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FG4hDFuN.jpg%3F1&hash=8d2993ccbfc99bdf94fa2dccc4f029842ba15b99)
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I'm on an open profile now so it wouldn't upset it.
You are not on open profile. You have on INP 3.5, which translates to Interleaving and what according to Ian Lawrence is supposed to happen when a G.INP'd line has been reset.
However dave's line does now appear to be on open profile after the engineer visit.
Thats why I said there appears to be 2 types of DLM resets. :-\
Just rebooted the router and my Downstream interleaver depth has dropped a bit more but my Downstream G.INP has decreased as well... :/
No it hasnt - there is no g.inp on that line at all.
INP (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/interleaving.htm#INP) = 3 so therefore error protection has been reduced.
INP (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/interleaving.htm#INP) & G.INP arent quite the same thing.
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Oh, mine just resynced few minutes ago. New Infinity 1 up to 52 mbps welcome! :P
45mbps on speedtest so gained about 8mbps, upload stayed the same though. Attainable went down from about 50000 to 48000 with SnR of 6.1dB. Also the most important thing latency is the same 12ms!
Good news :)
btw - have you tried ejs's StatPOSTer which can get some extra stats from the TD-W9980?
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Oh, mine just resynced few minutes ago. New Infinity 1 up to 52 mbps welcome! :P
45mbps on speedtest so gained about 8mbps, upload stayed the same though. Attainable went down from about 50000 to 48000 with SnR of 6.1dB. Also the most important thing latency is the same 12ms!
Good news :)
btw - have you tried ejs's StatPOSTer which can get some extra stats from the TD-W9980?
Haha I've seen the post but to be honest I have no clue how to even start it :'(
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PS William. Why have you turned MDWS off.
Now is the time more than any other when you should be using it.
It can even be used as proof to help get your line reset.
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Haha I've seen the post but to be honest I have no clue how to even start it :'(
If you ask over in the router monitoring thread someone will help you.
I would assist myself, but it was my intention to be in bed before midnight as I have to be somewhere tomorrow.
I shall probably be AWOL for a few days as there's some RL things I need to sort out.
Apologies, but I also have about a dozen outstanding PMs and about 50 emails to answer, that I cant seem to catch up on no matter how hard Im trying atm :(
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No worries kitz!
I will open a new thread about it, will see what I will be able to do about that. To be honest I'd like to know whether G.INP is enabled or not and some info about ES and SES.
I am just a bit worried about my DS SnR being 6.1dB in the middle of the night, I am a bit scared too see what it would be in the morning and at the evening. It tends to drop down about 1 dB.
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I'm on an open profile now so it wouldn't upset it.
You are not on open profile. You have on INP 3.5, which translates to Interleaving and what according to Ian Lawrence is supposed to happen when a G.INP'd line has been reset.
However dave's line does now appear to be on open profile after the engineer visit.
Thats why I said there appears to be 2 types of DLM resets. :-\
Just rebooted the router and my Downstream interleaver depth has dropped a bit more but my Downstream G.INP has decreased as well... :/
No it hasnt - there is no g.inp on that line at all.
INP (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/interleaving.htm#INP) = 3 so therefore error protection has been reduced.
INP (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/interleaving.htm#INP) & G.INP arent quite the same thing.
you have me confused.
I always thought a default (open) profile on g.inp enabled cabinet is interleaved, as this seems to have been the case e.g. when newt had a DLM reset last year.
But are you saying its possible to have the legacy open profile (interleave delay 1 aka fastpath) on a g.inp enabled cabinet?
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The default is now supposed to be interleaved.. not open.
But look at daves.. it's totally open with nothing on at all.
Open profile is no Interleaving and no INP aka how it used to be on a new line.
Hence me saying earlier I too was confused and how it looks like there could be 2 types of reset?
Or could it be because he had a pair swap
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Is there any way to get rid of BT's DNS in router settings and replace them with google DNS and be able to ping 8.8.8.8 / 8.8.4.4 on 3rd and 4th hop instead of BT's DNS?
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ok thanks kitz. I understand what you mean now. It is indeed odd, dave has fast path right now.
I wouldnt expect a pair swap to turn g.inp off, but a new port on the cabinet might trigger this behaviour. (lift and shift)
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Is there any way to get rid of BT's DNS in router settings and replace them with google DNS and be able to ping 8.8.8.8 / 8.8.4.4 on 3rd and 4th hop instead of BT's DNS?
if the router doesnt allow the overide (when I tested hh5 I remember it did tho, so check advanced settings), then your only option is to overide on your client devices to stop them using the router for dns.
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Upgraded this morning, banding still applied G.Inp removed. Stats at Majorca72 on MDWS for those interested.
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Upgraded this morning, banding still applied G.Inp removed. Stats at Majorca72 on MDWS for those interested.
Yes, thought so. Thank god I'm not the only one. I had a discussion with Mr. mlmclaren last night suggesting I wait for G.INP to come back and cancel the engineer visit. Any thoughts?
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I would be inclined to agree. I'm not rushing in to doing anything, but then again, I wasn't particularly bothered about the extra speed, it was just an academic excercise as far as I was concerned to see what happened.
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I would be inclined to agree. I'm not rushing in to doing anything, but then again, I wasn't particularly bothered about the extra speed, it was just an academic excercise as far as I was concerned to see what happened.
Fair play, cheers licquorice!
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Yes, thought so. Thank god I'm not the only one. I had a discussion with Mr. mlmclaren last night suggesting I wait for G.INP to come back and cancel the engineer visit. Any thoughts?
I said that here http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,17499.msg319705.html#msg319705
But now it's booked, I wouldn't cancel.
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Yes, thought so. Thank god I'm not the only one. I had a discussion with Mr. mlmclaren last night suggesting I wait for G.INP to come back and cancel the engineer visit. Any thoughts?
I said that here http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,17499.msg319705.html#msg319705
Yes, I know. Sorry, I must've forgotten about your post.
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Yes, thought so. Thank god I'm not the only one. I had a discussion with Mr. mlmclaren last night suggesting I wait for G.INP to come back and cancel the engineer visit. Any thoughts?
I said that here http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,17499.msg319705.html#msg319705
Yes, I know. Sorry, I must've forgotten about your post.
Why cancel the engineer visit? It's really hard to even book one in the first place.
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£129 ?
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£129 ?
Yes, there is the risk with that, but also it will delay G.INP being enabled even further, yes I may get a higher speed but my line could potentially become unstable.
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I can't see how your line might become unstable. If the engineer finds and fixes a fault, that will improve your line and make it more stable.
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I can't see how your line might become unstable. If the engineer finds and fixes a fault, that will improve your line and make it more stable.
There isn't a fault there, the reason the line is still syncing NOT banded at 34999 Kbps is because I've been put on the interleaved DLM reset, once G.INP is activated, the speed should rocket back up to 45 Mbps...
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If there isn't a fault, they won't book an engineer. They have to detect a fault on their test system to be able to book an engineer.
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Well, the only "fault" is the banding which when G.INP activates will remove.
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DLM will have banded your connection for a reason, not for fun.
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DLM will have banded your connection for a reason, not for fun.
Yes, but I'm not banded anymore because my line's reset. When G.INP sorry I have to repeat G.INP is activated, the speed will increase.
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But you just said your line is banded
Well, the only "fault" is the banding which when G.INP activates will remove.
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But you just said your line is banded Well, the only "fault" is the banding which when G.INP activates will remove.
Sorry, I got confused. This "banding" is doing my head in now, thankfully I've got work this afternoon! I've been advised that the line banding has been removed by the DLM reset hence the SNR decrease...
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So is your line banded or not?
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So is your line banded or not?
No, it isn't. It was before the upgrade but it isn't now.
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I think a sync speed of 34998 indicates it is banded to be honest
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I think a sync speed of 34998 indicates it is banded to be honest
Talk to mlmclaren, he'll advise that I'm not banded anymore.
Ok, the Openreach engineer visit isn't actually cancelled, but I'm torn because one person says I'm banded one person says I'm not. Does anyone actually have a true answer?
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Reboot your router. If the connection speed is EXACTLY the same - then yes you are banded. I have never rebooted and had exactly the same sync speed (and have never been banded).
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Ok, the Openreach engineer visit isn't actually cancelled, but I'm torn because one person says I'm banded one person says I'm not. Does anyone actually have a true answer?
If you actually bothered to upload your stats as you have asked to do by multiple people that would help us all.
However, I believe you are still banded. Keep the Openreach appointment - I recall reading somewhere that you had a Broadband Boost job allocated to you not a repair - which is good news - but BT are only likely to ever do this when you have just switched to a new faster product.
In the meantime, do not touch your connection and do not reboot
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Ok, the Openreach engineer visit isn't actually cancelled, but I'm torn because one person says I'm banded one person says I'm not. Does anyone actually have a true answer?
If you actually bothered to upload your stats as you have asked to do by multiple people that would help us all.
However, I believe you are still banded. Keep the Openreach appointment - I recall reading somewhere that you had a Broadband Boost job allocated to you not a repair - which is good news - but BT are only likely to ever do this when you have just switched to a new faster product.
In the meantime, do not touch your connection and do not reboot
Bothered? I would, but yeah what's the point in phyiscally forcing someone to do something there not interested in? Thank you! Yes, I have kept the engineer so yes should be good on Friday.
Here are my current line stats:
xDSL
Mode VDSL2
Traffic Type PTM
Status Up
Link Power State L0
Downstream Upstream
Line Coding (Trellis) On On
SNR Margin (dB) 6.9 5.7
Attenuation (dB) 25.8 0.0
Output Power (dBm) 12.1 5.6
Attainable Rate (Kbps) 45320 8007
Rate (Kbps) 34999 8007
B (# of bytes in Mux Data Frame) 57 239
M (# of Mux Data Frames in an RS codeword) 1 1
T (# of Mux Data Frames in an OH sub-frame) 62 42
R (# of redundancy bytes in the RS codeword) 16 0
S (# of data symbols over which the RS code word spans) 0.0527 0.9524
L (# of bits transmitted in each data symbol) 11232 2016
D (interleaver depth) 613 1
I (interleaver block size in bytes) 74 120
N (RS codeword size) 74 240
Delay (msec) 8 0
INP (DMT symbol) 3.00 0.00
OH Frames 20362304 4959899
OH Frame Errors 1 20
RS Words 3787313697 4291167
RS Correctable Errors 665280 0
RS Uncorrectable Errors 1 0
HEC Errors 0 0
OCD Errors 0 0
LCD Errors 0 0
Total Cells 3371997406 0
Data Cells 16586895 0
Bit Errors 0 0
Total ES 1 16
Total SES 0 0
Total UAS 30 30
Sorry, I don't want to start another "episode" here but you do realise that if anyone here continues to badjer me and nearly demand me to do stuff, I will report you.
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William, the point about uploading to MDWS is that the uploaded data would enable people to help you more when you ask for advice. You're not being badgered - people want to help, but are hindered from doing so by the lack of information.
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Anything exactly or similar to xxx999 Kbps = banded
An open profile would be any value.
Ok, the Openreach engineer visit isn't actually cancelled, but I'm torn because one person says I'm banded one person says I'm not. Does anyone actually have a true answer?
If you actually bothered to upload your stats as you have asked to do by multiple people that would help us all.
However, I believe you are still banded. Keep the Openreach appointment - I recall reading somewhere that you had a Broadband Boost job allocated to you not a repair - which is good news - but BT are only likely to ever do this when you have just switched to a new faster product.
In the meantime, do not touch your connection and do not reboot
Bothered? I would, but yeah what's the point in phyiscally forcing someone to do something there not interested in? Thank you! Yes, I have kept the engineer so yes should be good on Friday.
Here are my current line stats:
xDSL
Mode VDSL2
Traffic Type PTM
Status Up
Link Power State L0
Downstream Upstream
Line Coding (Trellis) On On
SNR Margin (dB) 6.9 5.7
Attenuation (dB) 25.8 0.0
Output Power (dBm) 12.1 5.6
Attainable Rate (Kbps) 45320 8007
Rate (Kbps) 34999 8007
B (# of bytes in Mux Data Frame) 57 239
M (# of Mux Data Frames in an RS codeword) 1 1
T (# of Mux Data Frames in an OH sub-frame) 62 42
R (# of redundancy bytes in the RS codeword) 16 0
S (# of data symbols over which the RS code word spans) 0.0527 0.9524
L (# of bits transmitted in each data symbol) 11232 2016
D (interleaver depth) 613 1
I (interleaver block size in bytes) 74 120
N (RS codeword size) 74 240
Delay (msec) 8 0
INP (DMT symbol) 3.00 0.00
OH Frames 20362304 4959899
OH Frame Errors 1 20
RS Words 3787313697 4291167
RS Correctable Errors 665280 0
RS Uncorrectable Errors 1 0
HEC Errors 0 0
OCD Errors 0 0
LCD Errors 0 0
Total Cells 3371997406 0
Data Cells 16586895 0
Bit Errors 0 0
Total ES 1 16
Total SES 0 0
Total UAS 30 30
Sorry, I don't want to start another "episode" here but you do realise that if anyone here continues to badjer me and nearly demand me to do stuff, I will report you.
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Anything exactly or similar to xxx999 Kbps = banded
An open profile would be any value.
Ok, the Openreach engineer visit isn't actually cancelled, but I'm torn because one person says I'm banded one person says I'm not. Does anyone actually have a true answer?
If you actually bothered to upload your stats as you have asked to do by multiple people that would help us all.
However, I believe you are still banded. Keep the Openreach appointment - I recall reading somewhere that you had a Broadband Boost job allocated to you not a repair - which is good news - but BT are only likely to ever do this when you have just switched to a new faster product.
In the meantime, do not touch your connection and do not reboot
Bothered? I would, but yeah what's the point in phyiscally forcing someone to do something there not interested in? Thank you! Yes, I have kept the engineer so yes should be good on Friday.
Here are my current line stats:
xDSL
Mode VDSL2
Traffic Type PTM
Status Up
Link Power State L0
Downstream Upstream
Line Coding (Trellis) On On
SNR Margin (dB) 6.9 5.7
Attenuation (dB) 25.8 0.0
Output Power (dBm) 12.1 5.6
Attainable Rate (Kbps) 45320 8007
Rate (Kbps) 34999 8007
B (# of bytes in Mux Data Frame) 57 239
M (# of Mux Data Frames in an RS codeword) 1 1
T (# of Mux Data Frames in an OH sub-frame) 62 42
R (# of redundancy bytes in the RS codeword) 16 0
S (# of data symbols over which the RS code word spans) 0.0527 0.9524
L (# of bits transmitted in each data symbol) 11232 2016
D (interleaver depth) 613 1
I (interleaver block size in bytes) 74 120
N (RS codeword size) 74 240
Delay (msec) 8 0
INP (DMT symbol) 3.00 0.00
OH Frames 20362304 4959899
OH Frame Errors 1 20
RS Words 3787313697 4291167
RS Correctable Errors 665280 0
RS Uncorrectable Errors 1 0
HEC Errors 0 0
OCD Errors 0 0
LCD Errors 0 0
Total Cells 3371997406 0
Data Cells 16586895 0
Bit Errors 0 0
Total ES 1 16
Total SES 0 0
Total UAS 30 30
Sorry, I don't want to start another "episode" here but you do realise that if anyone here continues to badjer me and nearly demand me to do stuff, I will report you.
Darn, ok. May have to wait until Friday then, no problem.
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@William
Just looking at the one set of stats suggests you have old-style DLM intervention in place (INP=3 and delay=8). I don't know what you had reset, or when (and I'm not going looking; MDWS might have made things simpler there), but DLM is definitely currently intervened. We can't tell if this is real intervention, or a lingering "default" setup (an MDWS history might have helped there too).
The speed setting - 34999, just a few kbps below the round number of 35000 - suggests banding all by itself. In conjunction with an SNRM of 6.9, it suggests it even more strongly. Access to an MDWS history would let us see the SNRM at the resync, rather than the current value - which would have helped weaken or strengthen the case for banding.
DLM's intervention means that the FEC process is using 21% of your bandwidth for additional overhead, and is why your modem predicts an attainable speed of 45Mbps. However, you should be warned that modems have a habit of over-estimating the attainable speed under those circumstances. If DLM relented, and set INP=0, delay=0 then an unbanded line would likely sync at a speed in the middle of the actual and attainable: around 40Mbps in your case.
I think a sync speed of 34998 indicates it is banded to be honest
Talk to mlmclaren, he'll advise that I'm not banded anymore.
I'm with Dray on this. The story told by the one-shot statistics suggests that, reset or not, banding is still in place.
Ok, the Openreach engineer visit isn't actually cancelled, but I'm torn because one person says I'm banded one person says I'm not.
Ever since you caused too many resyncs, and triggered the banding, you've been stuck at 35Mbps and been desperate to get rid of it. Desperate to get an engineer to attend.
You remain stuck at 35Mbps - for whatever reason - and now have an appointment. Why on earth would you cancel it?
Does anyone actually have a true answer?
True answer? Here, you are talking to people who have gleaned experience of DLM by analysing behaviour - which means you will only ever get opinions. Some of the guesses may be better educated than other ones, and some will be wild-assed ones. But they are still guesses.
Even worse, is the fact that BT continue to develop their DLM, so its behaviour changes. When you only have opinions and guesses at behaviour, it can take time to figure out additional changes. As an example, see @kitz trying to figure out whether there are now two different types of DLM reset.
If you want to know the true answers about DLM, then you will need to go work for BT, sign the appropriate NDAs that will stop you posting the truth on here, and then work on either researching DLM or designing/implementing it. Until then, accept that every answer you see here is a little bit right, and a little bit wrong. You have to learn which ones are more right than wrong and vice-versa.
Bothered? I would, but yeah what's the point in phyiscally forcing someone to do something there not interested in?
When you first appeared here, you were very interested in finding out what DLM did. Once you discovered the worst effects of banding, you were very interested in finding out how to get rid of it.
These things that you *are* interested in require you to either learn about DSL and DLM for yourself, or ask questions of those who are willing to give their time to help you understand. The helpers, in turn, need to ask you for a lot of information in return - some can be gleaned from the raw statistics (as you posted recently), while some is best gleaned over long periods of time ... and then best visualised in the form of graphs.
Hard-earned experience from many of the helpers is that the graphs help enormously. It has long been one of the suggestions to start running either of the monitoring programs on a PC or Pi. More recently, MDWS has made it easy for other users to access - which means the helpers get to see the graphs that they find useful, rather than the graphs that the help-seeker chooses to provide.
People aren't forcing you to put information onto MDWS (or indeed, use any other monitoring program). No more than you are forcing them to offer you help.
But my experience on forums is this: If the help-seeker doesn't answer questions, doesn't provide the requested data (including graphs) in a timely manner, and doesn't follow advice, then the offers of help rapidly dry up.
It really does become a case of helping others to help yourself.
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Woah, what a post! Thanks a lot for explaining that, however I'm not convinced I'm still banded. Re: MDWS, I may start again soon, there isn't a reason why I don't upload to MDWS, but what I can't understand is why people really want me to upload, I've posted all the necessary stats and if people want me to do this I will.
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Ive only come on because of a mod report and I should be doing something else. :(
I'm not convinced I'm still banded.
Trust me... Im 99.99999% certain that you are.
Ive been reading line stats for >12 years and was one of the first to be able to do so and have tried to impart that knowledge to others.
Its still a learning curve with things like hlog, but sometimes you just know and you get a gut feeling based on SNR signs. - I was at one time diagnosing cross-talk just from SNRm before there were such things at hlog graphs.
If both wombat and I see the signs that you are banded, then you most likely are.
People are trying to help.
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A mod report? Why? ???
Ok, I'm banded. Apologies. Good bye everyone! Thanks! Thanks for targeting me though this, I asked for help, I got it but now I've got to do it on my own apparently. :/
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but what I can't understand is why people really want me to upload, I've posted all the necessary stats and if people want me to do this I will.
As I said, a lot of information comes from not just the statistics *now*, but the change in the statistics over time. Visualising the change in statistics over time is a vital tool ... if you want a great example, try this 4 minute video of Hans Rosling (health statistician) from a BBC programme, summarising health/wealth over 200 years: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbkSRLYSojo
I happen to love those animated bubble charts... http://www.gapminder.org/world/
So, visualisation is good ...
I went onto MDWS yesterday, and instantly had available all the graphs from @NewtronStar's line over the last 10 days, which enabled me to compare all kinds of statistics with both the 6dB target and the 3dB target, measuring cause and effect between the two. Asking for one snapshot of statistics would never give me that amount of detail ... so my post would never be made.
Lots of data is good ... which makes visualisation essential ...
But @NewtronStar didn't know his line was going to become a 3dB target, so didn't know we would need statistics (before, during and after). If he only started posting to MDWS after he discovered the target, we'd have no data to work from. My post would be semi-interesting, but not as good as the one that compares before vs after.
Historical data is good ... which means lots of data ... which makes visualisation essential ...
Don't take this in a bad way, but you post a lot, across quite a few threads, and your threads get long. That makes it extremely hard to find one of your old posts, and any of your old stats ... and harder to figure out just what situation those old posts relate to. You are, in effect, making it hard for anyone to help you - which makes it less likely anyone will want to help you.
Ease of access is good ...
You have, and retain, a very good knowledge of your own individual line and all its little foibles. The helpers don't keep an intimate knowledge of 200 lines, and need help to be reminded. If there is another post next to yours in the forum, from someone who does make the data easily attainable, then the (freely-given) time of the helper might just be diverted in that direction.
An easy reminder is good ...
Something like MDWS takes away such hassles entirely. It makes it easy to help people. Why wouldn't you want to do that?
One line of thought: I only have so much time. I can only help so many people. Who will I choose to help? Who made it easy for me to help?
Now replicate that line of thought over everyone reading the forum.
Why wouldn't you want to make it easy for me to choose to help you rather than someone else?
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I've got Openreach on the case now, raised as a high priority issue, managed to email the CEO all is in hand. Any questions, please raise by PM.
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In what way is your self-induced banding a high priority case that warrants CEO intervention?
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Sorry? It's ok, they know about us as we've had so many issues in the past. What are you on about self-induced?
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Sorry? It's ok, they know about us as we've had so many issues in the past. What are you on about self-induced?
I'll be interested to hear how the engineer visit goes.
I'm still saying this would have sorted itself without engineer visits. But uploading stats would have helped all of us "see" your lines behaviour. Graphs are so much more helpful than textual stats! :)
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Sorry? It's ok, they know about us as we've had so many issues in the past. What are you on about self-induced?
I'll be interested to hear how the engineer visit goes.
I'm still saying this would have sorted itself without engineer visits. But uploading stats would have helped all of us "see" your lines behaviour. Graphs are so much more helpful than textual stats! :)
Thanks, are you sure? Because my line is still *cough* banded...
I see you've got a Davis Vantage Vue, I'm Newton Poppleford Weather!
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Sorry? It's ok, they know about us as we've had so many issues in the past. What are you on about self-induced?
I'll be interested to hear how the engineer visit goes.
I'm still saying this would have sorted itself without engineer visits. But uploading stats would have helped all of us "see" your lines behaviour. Graphs are so much more helpful than textual stats! :)
Thanks, are you sure? Because my line is still *cough* banded...
I see you've got a Davis Vantage Vue, I'm Newton Poppleford Weather!
It's possible it's banded, Kitz has said she is defo sure it is and I take her word, she's very knowledgeable and I always trust her opinion over mine :)
Just see how the engineer visit goes, but be prepared to wait longer for G. Inp to be applied as the line will be reset.
I do indeed, runs on my Pi so costs peanuts to run each year!
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And the reason for the cough was ?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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What are you on about self-induced?
http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,16863.0.html
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What are you on about self-induced?
http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,16863.0.html
Ok, fine. But, that was what I call testing, I actually didn't mean to induce it, I was just testing, never wanted it to come this. Oh, I'm so sorry everyone. I'll just quietly remove myself from this forum. Good bye. :'(
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Sorry? It's ok, they know about us as we've had so many issues in the past. What are you on about self-induced?
The period of time where you repeatedly took out the DSL cable.
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one line statement from me
you are still banded. 3499x sync with 6.9db, its 100%.
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Ok, no one noticed my last post then. Fine.
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Ok, no one noticed my last post then. Fine.
I don't mean to offend, but chill out. People are advising you of what you did may have well caused the issues youre having.
My views, VDSL, leave well alone for a while = issues solved. Engineer will let you know Friday i'm sure of what is actually wrong.
As for your last comment, That is your own opinion, but you can just take people's comments in your stride or however you wish, we all try and be friendly here :) But your lack of stats did hinder our diagnostics greatly, plus piggybacking on this thread instead starting your own new one would have been a lot easier to track all the stats you were posting? :)
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Ok, no one noticed my last post then. Fine.
I don't mean to offend, but chill out. People are advising you of what you did may have well caused the issues youre having.
My views, VDSL, leave well alone for a while = issues solved. Engineer will let you know Friday i'm sure of what is actually wrong.
As for your last comment, That is your own opinion, but you can just take people's comments in your stride or however you wish, we all try and be friendly here :) But your lack of stats did hinder our diagnostics greatly, plus piggybacking on this thread instead starting your own new one would have been a lot easier to track all the stats you were posting? :)
Sorry, I did have a thread but it got closed down by roseway, rightly so I was out of order.
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Thanks, are you sure? Because my line is still *cough* banded...
I consider that rather rude - especially when people are trying to help.
Both wombat and jamie (jid) and many more have tried to explain things to you based on your insistance that the line was not banded, when it clearly is. The *cough* serves no purpose and only implies that you do not believe what you are being told.
The reason your other thread got locked is because you were rude towards people who were trying to help, but attitude like that sucks
Bothered? I would, but yeah what's the point in phyiscally forcing someone to do something there not interested in?
With all due respect, I know you have certain difficulties, but it does not help your case when you jump off the handle and dont read properly. Some of the people who post on this forum give some of the best advice you are going to get anywhere and their knowledge far outstrips that of most ISP help desk representatives.
We're not forcing you to use MDWS but it would certainly help us see better what is going on with your line and enable us to focus specifically on your issue.
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Thanks, are you sure? Because my line is still *cough* banded...
I consider that rather rude - especially when people are trying to help.
Pardon? That is not the reason I said that word. I put *cough* because we'd been talking about my banding so much that I put that there, that was in no way, shape or form aimed at anyone, sorry but we all take things the wrong way.
Right, for my benefit and others I've re-thought this so we can all be happy, I am back on MDWS for however long it may be, it's WilliamG now as the old account wasn't my donation account.
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Just noticing a few things, I'm getting sometime thousands of FEC's a minute, I'm wondering how unstable my connection could be on interleaving 1! :/
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Just noticing a few things, I'm getting sometime thousands of FEC's a minute, I'm wondering how unstable my connection could be on interleaving 1! :/
Probably won't stay interleaved very long. Even after a DLM reset i'd bet DLM won't be long reapplying interleaving.
You've a lot of FEC errors, my line is similar and cannot cope without some kind of error correction.
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Just noticing a few things, I'm getting sometime thousands of FEC's a minute, I'm wondering how unstable my connection could be on interleaving 1! :/
Probably won't stay interleaved very long. Even after a DLM reset i'd bet DLM won't be long reapplying interleaving.
You've a lot of FEC errors, my line is similar and cannot cope without some kind of error correction.
Yeah, it was G.INP before. Has anyone who's upgraded to the package got G.INP back yet? I may be the first as I think I upgraded first?
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Yeah, it was G.INP before. Has anyone who's upgraded to the package got G.INP back yet? I may be the first as I think I upgraded first?
I don't know if I got G.INP back as I can't see it on my TD-W9980. But my latency is low so I guess I am on fast path.
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I don't know if I got G.INP back as I can't see it on my TD-W9980. But my latency is low so I guess I am on fast path.
When did you upgrade, Monday?
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When did you upgrade, Monday?
I rang them on Sunday, and my new package went live today at 2am in the night.
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That's interesting, maybe it's because your line wasn't banded...
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That's interesting, maybe it's because your line wasn't banded...
Maybe, I am not that knowledgeable. I was banded once at 24999 if I remember correctly, just few months after I switched over to BT from VM. But this was when my line was very unstable due to 4 dB of DS SnR. I had to reboot my router every night to get the internet working back. I had very high interleaving depth with latency of 42ms to bbc.co.uk etc. Then I booked an engineer appointment due to line fault and he suggested me not to reboot router too often. Since then I have full Infinity 1 speed except upstream and lowest latency possible of 12ms as I live far North :P
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ok thanks kitz. I understand what you mean now. It is indeed odd, dave has fast path right now.
Aimed at @chrys & @wombat and anyone else.
Whilst I was driving this afternoon, I was mulling over the apparent 2 different types of DLM reset.
Daves line is obviously on open profile after an engineer reset
Williams line appears to have had some sort of reset (as implied by removal of g.inp to interleaving as per was Ian said is now default).
Williams line is definitely banded/capped/rate limited - he is constantly stuck with a 34999 figure and has some surplus SNRm - even though as expected it is less, now that he has INP 3.
The banding is niggling me.. and I suddenly recalled something going back several years, whereby on this forum we saw a couple of users who were getting banded. Yet the ISP could not see that it was banded. The ISPs were requesting DLM resets but this still would not clear what was an obvious rate limited line. Even when taken to BTw they were saying it wasnt banded.
One of the ISP reps who used to post on these forums got involved and started some investigation into the issue.
The outcome was that DLM had decided that these particular lines had become so unstable that it had not only applied the usual DLM intervention but had in effect applied a max capped rate. This max capped rate was outside of normal DLM profiles - a total line restriction - and its why no amount of DLM resets was clearing it. This max capped rate wasnt showing in the DLM profile which is how Plusnet and even whoever Plusnet had escalted it to within BTw had also missed it.
Ive been searching and cant find the info now. My memory is hazy so cant recall the exact details... but can anyone else remember this?
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ok thanks kitz. I understand what you mean now. It is indeed odd, dave has fast path right now.
Aimed at @chrys & @wombat and anyone else.
Whilst I was driving this afternoon, I was mulling over the apparent 2 different types of DLM reset.
Daves line is obviously on open profile after an engineer reset
Williams line appears to have had some sort of reset (as implied by removal of g.inp to interleaving as per was Ian said is now default).
Williams line is definitely banded/capped/rate limited - he is constantly stuck with a 34999 figure and has some surplus SNRm - even though as expected it is less, now that he has INP 3.
The banding is niggling me.. and I suddenly recalled something going back several years, whereby on this forum we saw a couple of users who were getting banded. Yet the ISP could not see that it was banded. The ISPs were requesting DLM resets but this still would not clear what was an obvious rate limited line. Even when taken to BTw they were saying it wasnt banded.
One of the ISP reps who used to post on these forums got involved and started some investigation into the issue.
The outcome was that DLM had decided that these particular lines had become so unstable that it had not only applied the usual DLM intervention but had in effect applied a max capped rate. This max capped rate was outside of normal DLM profiles - a total line restriction - and its why no amount of DLM resets was clearing it. This max capped rate wasnt showing in the DLM profile which is how Plusnet and even whoever Plusnet had escalted it to within BTw had also missed it.
Ive been searching and cant find the info now. My memory is hazy so cant recall the exact details... but can anyone else remember this?
That sounds like it might be what I have. I had horrendous problems when I first started with an ECI modem which led to my speed reducing quite drasically, the problems cleared up once I switched to a HG612 but I have been stuck at 43999 ever since then, even when I have as much as 3dB spare SNR.
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Oh, dear. Ah well, if engineer can't reset we shall just have to live with it won't we? :)
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DLM is weird sometimes.
It seems to quickly act if your on Fastpath to reduce to interleaving. Yet seems to be very slow (if ever) start removing interleaving and increasing speed back up.
I get very few ES's when I'm interleaved. I hardly get any disconnections yet its rare DLM actually increases speeds again.
I haven't swapped the firmware modems out yet so still on the non-G.INP firmware.. it took a small hit and put me on interleaving but so far everything seems to be working as normal.
It's probably best when changing anything, packages, modems etc is to leave DLM to look at the line for a few days and see if it changes anything on its own.
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Found it Finally! It was much longer ago that I thought so dont know if it still applies on FTTC and if its just ADSL.... but here you go.
http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,797.msg29089.html#msg29089
The DLM identified the line as a cronic flapper (eg we know ILQ scarlet can trigger something)
and gave the line a capped Cronic flapper profile which doesnt shift on a DLM reset.
I wonder if NGA DLM also has a Capped C profile which is outside of 'normal' DLM parameters?
/just musing.
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Oh, dear. Ah well, if engineer can't reset we shall just have to live with it won't we? :)
Maybe try to limit your MaxDataRate to 30000?
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Found it Finally! It was much longer ago that I thought so dont know if it still applies on FTTC and if its just ADSL.... but here you go.
The DLM identified the line as a cronic flapper (eg we know ILQ scarlet can trigger something)
and gave the line a capped Cronic flapper profile which doesnt shift on a DLM reset.
I wonder if NGA DLM also has a Capped C profile which is outside of 'normal' DLM parameters?
http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,797.msg29089.html#msg29089
Nice one, kitz! I'd hope due to the DLM's being separate on ADSL and VDSL that this isn't the case. FTTC didn't exist when that forum post was created so I'd think it's highly unlikely that it would have been brought forward, who knows.
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Oh, dear. Ah well, if engineer can't reset we shall just have to live with it won't we? :)
Maybe try to limit your MaxDataRate to 30000?
I think I tried that then removed it and it didn't work. I can try again...
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I hadnt realised it was so long ago, which is why it took so long to find. I should state though that since then there have been several more cases - some of them more recent, although it was on adsl and not fttc.
Like I say, I was driving sat in slow traffic, and mulling over reasons why DLM could stick at capped rates.
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Oh, dear. Ah well, if engineer can't reset we shall just have to live with it won't we? :)
Maybe try to limit your MaxDataRate to 30000?
I think I tried that then removed it and it didn't work. I can try again...
Does your SnR actually go up when you limit your MaxDataRate? Or does it also limit your attainable?
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Does your SnR actually go up when you limit your MaxDataRate? Or does it also limit your attainable?
No, just the SNR Margin.
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I cannot remember it but glad you found the post.
Banding always seems to be a last resort on this DLM which may also explain why it isnt removed as easily as interleaving, I think only one poster on here got it applied as a first measure, which was odd.
When openreach reset my DLM a while back that did remove banding, but that might have been a different reset to the lower level reset that seems to keep banding intact.
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I cannot remember it but glad you found the post.
Banding always seems to be a last resort on this DLM which may also explain why it isnt removed as easily as interleaving, I think only one poster on here got it applied as a first measure, which was odd.
When openreach reset my DLM a while back that did remove banding, but that might have been a different reset to the lower level reset that seems to keep banding intact.
Yeah, that's about right. Basically, I think Openreach were hesitant in providing the full DLM reset for the package unless lines became unstable that were banded.
Ok, so I've had MDWS running overnight. I should get G.INP activated day and it will be interesting to see the results.
Does N0STIE still recommend banding my line too 30000 Kbps and then removing it again?
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I suggest that you follow this advice, and do not change anything:
http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,17546.msg320168.html#msg320168
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I suggest that you follow this advice, and do not change anything:
http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,17546.msg320168.html#msg320168
Of course, thanks roseway.
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ok thanks kitz. I understand what you mean now. It is indeed odd, dave has fast path right now.
Aimed at @chrys & @wombat and anyone else.
Whilst I was driving this afternoon, I was mulling over the apparent 2 different types of DLM reset.
Daves line is obviously on open profile after an engineer reset
Williams line appears to have had some sort of reset (as implied by removal of g.inp to interleaving as per was Ian said is now default).
Williams line is definitely banded/capped/rate limited - he is constantly stuck with a 34999 figure and has some surplus SNRm - even though as expected it is less, now that he has INP 3.
The banding is niggling me.. and I suddenly recalled something going back several years, whereby on this forum we saw a couple of users who were getting banded. Yet the ISP could not see that it was banded. The ISPs were requesting DLM resets but this still would not clear what was an obvious rate limited line. Even when taken to BTw they were saying it wasnt banded.
One of the ISP reps who used to post on these forums got involved and started some investigation into the issue.
The outcome was that DLM had decided that these particular lines had become so unstable that it had not only applied the usual DLM intervention but had in effect applied a max capped rate. This max capped rate was outside of normal DLM profiles - a total line restriction - and its why no amount of DLM resets was clearing it. This max capped rate wasnt showing in the DLM profile which is how Plusnet and even whoever Plusnet had escalted it to within BTw had also missed it.
Ive been searching and cant find the info now. My memory is hazy so cant recall the exact details... but can anyone else remember this?
Very interesting. This would appear to be the case with my line. I had severe flapping on my line around 6/7March for some unexplianed reason that resolved itself. Despite the line being OK since, I remain banded. Since the upgrade in the early hours yesterday, G.Inp has been removed and interleaving applied. Just wondering if this causes a catch22 situation. Because my line is now capped, it is stable and therefore DLM doesn't think there is any intervention required almost as if it has forgotten it has applied banding and starts again. Stats can be viewed at MDWS username majorca72
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Very interesting. This would appear to be the case with my line. I had severe flapping on my line around 6/7March for some unexplianed reason that resolved itself. Despite the line being OK since, I remain banded. Since the upgrade in the early hours yesterday, G.Inp has been removed and interleaving applied. Just wondering if this causes a catch22 situation. Because my line is now capped, it is stable and therefore DLM doesn't think there is any intervention required. Stats can be viewed at MDWS username majorca72
Yeah, let's just hope mine isn't "flapping" and they can remove the banding otherwise we're screwed until FTTP arrives.
Just curious, do you like Majorca?
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Northwest Majorca, yes.
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Northwest Majorca, yes.
Nice one!
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Yeah, let's just hope mine isn't "flapping" and they can remove the banding otherwise we're screwed until FTTP arrives.
Those reliability and consistency issues are my biggest problem with any xDSL technology.
Cable is a different beast, it can also suffer impairments, but these are more under their control as the network is, in theory, closed and shielded.
New cable technologies will combine the best of both. Hopefully G.fast will help remedy some of the problems with xDSL.
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Very interesting. This would appear to be the case with my line. I had severe flapping on my line around 6/7March for some unexplianed reason that resolved itself. Despite the line being OK since, I remain banded.
I'm beginning to wonder, because of late we are seeing quite a lot of people saying their line is banded and they cant get rid of it.
That Capped C profile is afaik still in place - or at least within the past year - on ADSL DLM.
I dont know if NGA DLM has anything similar, but it is something to consider.
Yeah, let's just hope mine isn't "flapping"
I cant say for certain, because it would require observing your line over a period of time... but I suspect from what little info I do have that it isnt.
However there is a good chance that the excessive amount of resyncs that you did a few months ago could have put you in the same category as a line which was flapping - ie severely unstable.
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I cant say for certain, because it would require observing your line over a period of time... but I suspect from what little info I do have that it isnt.
However there is a good chance that the excessive amount of resyncs that you did a few months ago could have put you in the same category as a line which was flapping - ie severely unstable.
And, when the line is "flapping" the DLM cannot be reset? :/
This is totally unrelated, but I have subscribed to you on YouTube, kitz!
Hmm, just had a drop in the Upstream SNR Margin. It shows it quite sharp on MDWS.
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Very interesting. This would appear to be the case with my line. I had severe flapping on my line around 6/7March for some unexplianed reason that resolved itself. Despite the line being OK since, I remain banded.
I'm beginning to wonder, because of late we are seeing quite a lot of people saying their line is banded and they cant get rid of it.
Any thoughts on my further hypothesis
Just wondering if this causes a catch22 situation. Because my line is now capped, it is stable and therefore DLM doesn't think there is any intervention required almost as if it has forgotten it has applied banding and starts again.
Is it possible 'Banding DLM' (for want of a better term) works independantly of 'Normal DLM'
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Just wondering if this causes a catch22 situation. Because my line is now capped, it is stable and therefore DLM doesn't think there is any intervention required almost as if it has forgotten it has applied banding and starts again.
Is it possible 'Banding DLM' (for want of a better term) works independantly of 'Normal DLM'
Quite possibly, unless the banding parameter wasn't removed in the package DLM reset.
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Ok, now I'm starting to get noise on the Upstream...
Now, the Upstream SNR Margin has increased back to normal again. How strange!
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@licquorice.
Sorry I dont know. All I know is that the ADSL DLM can apply a capped C profile, which is outside of the usual DLM process and does stick.
NGA DLM is slightly different - rather than Target SNRm & INP/Interleaving, it has different parameters.
NGA DLM used to use INP/Interleaving and Banding.. but now also has G.INP in the mix too.
One thing that I have noticed on the times when I have been DLM'd is that the cap usually corresponds with a rise in SNRm to 9dB, but I dont know if that's the same on all lines.
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One thing that I have noticed on the times when I have been DLM'd is that the cap usually corresponds with a rise in SNRm to 9dB, but I dont know if that's the same on all lines.
Thanks Kitz, my SNRm rose to 11/12dB but that was on a capped Infinity1 line with max attain of 45/46M
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That's why I'm wondered if my banded was related to the FEC and delay on my connection, because my SNR Margin is now 6/6 not 10/6 like it used to be...
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@william
Your SNRm could just be displaying a normal daily cycle. You need to keep MDWS on the line for a period of a few days though before we could see if its normal behaviour for your line.
It not quite usual for many lines to vary by 2dB over the course of the day. Look at Newtron Stars, his does something similar thing each day, but just at different times. Its just EMI/RFI coming from some external source.
However - dont panic yet! - I did notice something slightly between the hours of 1pm and 4:30pm - was anything turned on at that time?
I must stress though that it is only 0.6dB so it will be hard to detect and not seen as a fault. This isnt something that an engineer can fix.
Its hard to say anything yet with only 18 hrs of graphing. MDWS needs to be on your line for a few days before we can see your line typical line behaviour.
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That's why I'm wondered if my banded was related to the FEC and delay on my connection, because my SNR Margin is now 6/6 not 10/6 like it used to be...
No it will be related to the numerous resyncs a few months back
DLM doesnt care about FEC count. However DLM has applied INP and Interleaving as a result of your change of product.
This is what started me along the 'half done path' and why the banding was still there... and why I started mulling over what else could be happening.
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That's why I'm wondered if my banded was related to the FEC and delay on my connection, because my SNR Margin is now 6/6 not 10/6 like it used to be...
No it will be related to the numerous resyncs a few months back
DLM doesnt care about FEC count. However DLM has applied INP and Interleaving as a result of your change of product.
This is what started me along the 'half done path' and why the banding was still there... and why I started mulling over what else could be happening.
Ok, thanks. mlmclaren has advised my I do one reboot of my router to see if G.INP pulls through. Do you recommend it?
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I don't think G.INP is interested in a reboot.
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When does Billy G get his openreach appointment with all this excitement I have kind of forgotten ?
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Friday.
Also, William seems to have a large swing in downstream SNRM. From a high of 7.2dB to a low of 4.2dB today. Strange!
Is your line fed by lots of aerial cable/dropwire William?
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When does Billy G get his openreach appointment with all this excitement I have kind of forgotten ?
As underzone said, Friday. But, I've just had a spike of nearly 40,000 Downstream FEC's in 1 minute... Is this line reset going to cause havoc I wonder...
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What line reset? Sounds like you have a line fault and you need an engineer.
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Don't worry about FEC's used to get 1.2 million of these in a minute then ditched the power line adapters
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This is the line reset that I have booked on Friday because my banding wasn't removed.
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Also, William seems to have a large swing in downstream SNRM. From a high of 7.2dB to a low of 4.2dB today. Strange!
A Pair swap may cure this if one of the current legs are corroded and letting in RFI (Radio frequency Interferance) due to imbalance the openreach equipment should pick that up quite easily.
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Also, William seems to have a large swing in downstream SNRM. From a high of 7.2dB to a low of 4.2dB today. Strange!
A Pair swap may cure this if one of the current legs are corroded and letting in RFI (Radio frequency Interferance) due to imbalance the openreach equipment should pick that up quite easily.
Yes, and that's not my internal wiring for a start! Goodie!
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Is your line fed by lots of aerial cable/dropwire William?
Yes, it's overhead and the line gets rubbed by several branches it was worse years ago when I had water ingress.
Unlikely, but this could be why DLM has relented...
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I'm beginning to wonder, because of late we are seeing quite a lot of people saying their line is banded and they cant get rid of it.
That Capped C profile is afaik still in place - or at least within the past year - on ADSL DLM.
I dont know if NGA DLM has anything similar, but it is something to consider.
I wonder if this could be related to more rigorous and/or DLM automated implementation of speed, Standard or Stable profiles.
Quite a bit seems to have changed regarding how DLM operates since the ASSIA case a while back, leaving us with even more uncertainty about DLM's black art.
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It's official! 100% of last 24 hours uploaded! :D
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William you have a unstable upstream, the SNRM is very variable, and your downstream is only at around 7db, so I cannot see you getting much DS higher sync speed when unbanded either. In fact the SNRM DS bottomed out at 6.3db.
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Ok, I understand this. I need an Openreach engineer which is still going to visit on Friday to see if any improvements can be made.
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It's official! 100% of last 24 hours uploaded! :D
Yes, indeed. I shall be interested to see if your circuit exhibits similar behaviour in the next 24 hours.
In particular, I am looking at the US SNRM where it shows a downwards step at 1300 hours and then an upwards step at 1635 hours. Do those times correspond to anything electrical being switched on and then off, 3 hours 35 minutes later?
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Not as far as I'm aware, I will chat with father as we do have a heat pump...
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It's official! 100% of last 24 hours uploaded! :D
That's good you just don't know what is going to happen on your line next and the best way is to keep the PC or RPi monitoring stats 24/7 if you don't you will miss the anomaly.
Sure I was used to be a 6 hour stats monitor 6pm to midnight but I never saw what was going on from 1am to 5pm there was a gap in my knowledge of my line and it was 18 hours.
But there is a caution here monitoring stats 24/7 may become an obsession :o
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your downstream is only at around 7db, so I cannot see you getting much DS higher sync speed when unbanded either. In fact the SNRM DS bottomed out at 6.3db.
As from when William changed product, downstream currently has g.inp switched on and INP3 which will be causing overheads.
If he can get a proper reset and eventually g.inp back on the line, then he should have more to spare.
This is why I said in the other thread that he needed to fill in the blanks. If he'd have been recording on MDWS I could have easily filled them in for William, the info is there somewhere in one of williams posts in one of the threads somewhere, but I dont have time to go through them all now to find out what it should be. From memory the attainable before he got INP 3 was around 42Mbps.
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Actually, my Downstream Attainable Rate was still around 46 Mbps when G.INP was activated.
Yes, can still hear odd bird like screetches very distant on the quiet line test. Maybe Bald Eagle is on it... :lol:
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One thing that I have noticed on the times when I have been DLM'd is that the cap usually corresponds with a rise in SNRm to 9dB, but I dont know if that's the same on all lines.
Thanks Kitz, my SNRm rose to 11/12dB but that was on a capped Infinity1 line with max attain of 45/46M
Had a resync last night and interleaving has been removed. SNRm is now 9dB
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Hmm, still banded though. :lol:
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currently waiting a response from exec level complaints at BT, my line is definitely banded at 39999 with an attainable at around 50.
Been on livechat, phone still getting nowhere as they cannot see the banding so it doesnt exist! :(
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I'm exactly in the same boat mate. I had an Openreach engineer booked at first for Wednesday then they (censored) up and said oh it's Friday morning was really annoyed with that, now I've just had a text saying it's now going to be Friday afternoon without even letting me know, I have been in discussion with the secretary of the CEO of Openreach and he is passing my details on. Like you, I am due to get a call back. I'm just disgusted with how they've been dealing with this, to be quite honest. Might change ISP if they mess up again. :(
To see if we can help, do you have any line stats, DSLstats graphs and/or MDWS ID?
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If you want to see another good example of being banded have a look at my stats. ID is ardsar. It's been like this for at least 9 months. I only have 2/3 of my attainable.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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The issue I have is you're all thinking, "This could of all been avoided, William" but yes it could but I wanted to test, what I wasn't told or knew about is that there was a chance that DLM would never relent...
Thanks, ardsar. Will have a look.
Just had a look, it looks like you've been banded since at least May last year. Gosh, couldn't live with that. What was the issue?
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Not really sure. My s/n drops by around 1 - 1.5 db at night. I think it was due to me using an asus modem/router for a few months that was very unstable.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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You should get an engineer visit if that's the case as I have for my BT Home Hub 5 issues.
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I'm waiting to see what happens here. Will start my own thread once I have several days of more recent data with the hg612 as don't want to side track your thread.
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Go for it, I've spread information across several threads by accident. :lol:
Just noticed there's been no significant drop in the Upstream SNR Margin on my line, today.
I was going to ask, should I mention asking for a DLM reset specifically or just ask if he doesn't mention it?
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I'm just wondering if that crosstalker spike was next door. Here is their BRAS checker result for their phone number:
The current Downstream BRAS rate is: 20.78 Mbps.
The current Upstream BRAS rate is: 10 Mbps.
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The issue I have is you're all thinking, "This could of all been avoided, William" but yes it could but I wanted to test, what I wasn't told or knew about is that there was a chance that DLM would never relent...
Would it have made any difference?
Hi everyone!
I currently own a BT Home Hub 5 (Type B) and was trying to do some DLM testing on it.
Have to confess I am still wondering why you would want DLM to intervene on your line.
You could say, I'm "different".
NOT a good idea :o :'( :thumbdown: :no: :swoon: :angel:
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Alright, alright. None of those snippets you've posted say that DLM will never relent.
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Who knew?
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Don't worry, no one advised but that's fine it's only a forum not a contract. :lol:
I've just got one more question (I hope). Will the Openreach engineer have access to my speed estimates? :/
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Do you think that when you announced your experiment someone should have stopped you?
Who should have done that and why?
The engineer can test your line and see what it's capable of.
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Just spoke to high level complaints, the Openreach engineer appointment is tomorrow afternoon and they did apologise. So, hopefully it's a good outcome. I'm buzzing.
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I'm really sorry, but it feels like you're starting to get angry with me.
Well, I was asking for support but I'm sorry if you don't want to explain that.
The line is capable of a Downstream Rate of 46 Mbps, it's currently at around 35 Mbps so it can improve can't you see that on MDWS? :-\
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I'm really sorry, but it feels like you're starting to get angry with me.
No you are completely mistaken about that
I thought your line estimates were lower than 46 Mbps
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I apologise.
All I'm going to say, is it's up to you what you think the outcome of the engineer visit will be tomorrow. But, I think we just need to remember what points Kitz listed, those are going to be checked again and hopefully things will happen. I have explained the reasons to high level complaints and they seemed happy with that.
Yes, they're much lower than that I think 33.1 Mbps is top. But, I've not seen an engineer look at the estimates before...
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No need to apologise but I don't understand why you say such things anyway.
I think the best outcome for tomorrow is that the engineer identifies a fault on your line and fixes it, which will allow DLM to release your line from your self-imposed banding and let it reach it's full potential.
But there is the chance that no fault will be identified and that if a DLM reset is done, your line will not perform any better.
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It may not perform better, but the speed will increase and then at least we'll know that from that DLM reset onwards that any DLM interventions will be right...
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By saying it will not perform any better I mean the speed will not increase
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How? My Downstream Attainable Rate is 46 Mbps sorry but that's quite clear on MDWS. ::)
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The attainable rate can be inflated by interleaving
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Dray, fine. Listen to kitz she knows what she's on about.
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I think you should be the one listening to kitz actually
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Exactly, kitz said I can achieve 46 Mbps look at her post! I don't like your tone, Dray! I can only take so much!
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It's also possible that there is no line fault, and getting rid of the banding will allow the line to operate again at about 40Mbps or slightly over.
The stability level required for the DLM to leave things as they are is lower than what's required for the DLM to make changes that would improve the speed.
In any case, it seems we'd better hope the issue gets resolved otherwise this saga will go on forever, and this will probably be the first of many engineer visits.
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I'm sorry, but that's not true. If, for whatever reason my line cannot be improved then I will put up with it as long as I know then I will not go on. kitz, I think you need to intervene here.
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Wooah everyone..
Just got in and dont want to have to lock this thread.
Let me read and catch up whats been going on please.
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OK,
Ive just read through to see how this thread got out of hand a bit.
Having read the thread I can see that on the face of it that it looks like William implied that members of this forum should have stopped his experiment and I can see why others have jumped on that.
However, William said it wasnt his intention about implication of shifting blame and he told me he was curious.
None of us at the time was aware that there is what appears to be an issue with lines being capped for longer than necessary.
Can we draw a line under the past few squabbles as I want to focus on getting this fixed, so hopefully we can get back to normality. :-X
Thank you everyone for your co-operation. :)
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Thanks, kitz.
If you have any free time, I look forward to your planned analysis of the recent issues on my line.
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currently waiting a response from exec level complaints at BT, my line is definitely banded at 39999 with an attainable at around 50.
Been on livechat, phone still getting nowhere as they cannot see the banding so it doesnt exist! :(
If you want to see another good example of being banded have a look at my stats. ID is ardsar. It's been like this for at least 9 months. I only have 2/3 of my attainable.
@PEdmunds @ardsar
Can you please add your info to this thread here:-
http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,17563.msg320454.html#new
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It's also possible that there is no line fault, and getting rid of the banding will allow the line to operate again at about 40Mbps or slightly over.
The stability level required for the DLM to leave things as they are is lower than what's required for the DLM to make changes that would improve the speed.
In any case, it seems we'd better hope the issue gets resolved otherwise this saga will go on forever, and this will probably be the first of many engineer visits.
ejs is correct.
I agree that there is/was some instability on the upstream yesterday and Ive already covered that in another post. I dont think any engineer would see this as a line fault.
Right now Im concerned about the banding.
By all accounts the line was stable before the episode with the Homehub, and it seems to have settled again today, so I think it is important just for the sake of peace to concentrate on the downstream issue.
iirc the max attainable was somewhere around 44Mbps and william isnt ever going to get 55Mbps, but I think he will be happy if we can get his line back up to just slightly over 40Mbps.
@William
What you also have to bear in mind here is there does appear to be 2 types of reset. I dont know if you are going to get the open profile reset, but we do need to get rid of the cap. If you get a standard reset which usually applies to g.inp lines then you may for a short while have interleaving and INP .. which will decrease your max attainable. Eventually though g.inp should catch up again and hopefully bring you up to just over 40Mbps.
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Right, I presume when the Openreach engineer looks at my line they'll know which DLM reset to do? Or, would I have to ask which one they will perform?
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In any case, it seems we'd better hope the issue gets resolved otherwise this saga will go on forever, and this will probably be the first of many engineer visits.
I was fearing the case that the engineer that attends is the kind of engineer who can't be bothered to do anything, or will be strictly following rules so that if they can't find anything physical to fix or improve, then they won't do anything. I don't even want to think about what if the engineer decides that the only thing that they need to is replace the BT HomeHub.
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Ok, well if you've been reading I don't have a BT Home Hub 5, I have a Billion 8800NL router.
Also, this Openreach engineer is a BB engineer so is specifically sent out to do DLM reset for one reason or another. Sigh. Right, enough of this I'm going off before I get wound up again. I'll report back tomorrow.
"Just remember what kitz said, don't panic and everything will be fine..."
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I have been reading, and apparently what you've been told to tell the engineer is that the original problem was with the BT Home Hub. Perhaps they'll at least take away the Home Hub that you tell them was faulty, if you still have it. Yes, I did read that list of things an Openreach FTTC Boost engineer might do, and one of the things on the list is replacing faulty ISP supplied routers.
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William... ejs is trying to help and he does have a valid point.
What he says is true, they may take or replace the HH5.
Faulty HH is one of the reasons they can reset the line. ;)
Are you bothered though if they do swap it.. You've got your own router which is much better anyhow :)
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The first thing an engineer did for me was to blame the modem. He advised me to swap in the ISP supplied device and leave it for 10 days saying "it will settle down". He then left without resetting the DLM or doing anything else.
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I may have read this wrong, but because I will report a rebooting router, they won't reset it because of that. I'll already have told them that I have a Billion.
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William a boost engineer whilst the aim is to improve speed, there is no guarantee they will do that via fixing a fault or resetting DLM, as has been said they may well just decide to a modem swap or even say they cannot do anything.
I think if it was a SFI visit the most likely outcome would be nothing will be done, but with it been a boost things are more hopeful, but if you raise your hopes too high then it could lead to big disappointment.
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I'm not saying it's a definite, but I like your negativity. Not.
Anyway, we don't even know if he'll turn up yet.
The minimal thing I would like would be for him to turn up and just assess what me and kitz have written.
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From my own experience, if you reported this as a fault, they will reset the DLM 100% sure. I did that back in 2015, just told the guy on the phone that my speed is low (I was banded at 24999) and can't get it higher even by restarting the router. He then arranged an appointment and the engineer that attended did the DLM reset. I even said that my phone is crackling when it obviously wasn't just to get an engineer visit.
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From my own experience, if you reported this as a fault, they will reset the DLM 100% sure.
Not for me, they blamed the modem
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Well I only had HH5 that time restarting every few days, it was the pretty much the reason for banding.
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The thing is though is that a faulty modem is classed as faulty equipment... and one of the reasons that they are allowed to do a reset.
Thats why I wouldnt be bothered if they did take the old one away. Its a means to an end.
Like I said earlier, Im not in agreement that we have to go to these lengths. Openreach could make it one heck of a lot easier on themselves if they did like with the adsl DLM and allowed ISPs to request a DLM reset.
Seems a waste of resource and engineers time - especially now that self install is live. There's going to be more EU's only realising later that they can perhaps make improvements to their internal wiring, then could find themselves stuck with a cap.
Its my intention to bring that point up too.
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There's going to be more EU's only realising later that they can perhaps make improvements to their internal wiring, then could find themselves stuck with a cap.
I thought the internal wiring is only messed up in UK :lol:
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Openreach could make it one heck of a lot easier on themselves if they did like with the adsl DLM and allowed ISPs to request a DLM reset.
+1 on that! Bring back ISP DLM reset!
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Thats why I wouldnt be bothered if they did take the old one away. Its a means to an end.
My only ever engineer wanted to replace my HG612 but port 2 was still connected to the modem for stats collecting and gave me a look and said thats not right he then said he could not as I had interfered with OR equipment.
I just forgot to remove that lan cable :D
That reminds me put your original modem back in place incase he says that not the modem you were provide with in the contract.
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William you appearing a bit rude and dismissive of people trying to help you, so I wont be making any more posts in response to your line.
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Ok, that's your opinion, thank you. I am trying my hardest to not come over this way, I am sorry. But, I think you may have come over that way as well.
Re, NS. Thanks for your post. I understand where you are coming from, but I want to keep MDWS going up until the line is disconnected.
Look, guys. I have said repeated times that I do not try to come over rude and dismissive on purpose, I don't use my condition as an excuse but it does have an impact on the way I reply to things and I have said time and time again that I am trying, I really am trying to reduce and eventually stop these reactions, but it takes time. :)
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It will go well and a DLM reset, OR engineers they can come in two flavors the chatty type and non chatty the chatty chap will be young and inexperienced the non chatty type will be older been there done it that's the guy you want.
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It will go well and a DLM reset, OR engineers they can come in two flavors the chatty type and non chatty the chatty chap will be young and inexperienced the non chatty type will be older been there done it that's the guy you want.
Haha I pretty much agree :D
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Well, good night kitizens.
We shall wake up fresh and early tomorrow, check the notes over and get everything crossed and hope the guy is a nice one. See you tomorrow!
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Morning, everyone.
Well, I'm ready. Not sure what to think, but this is going to be an interesting day.
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Ok, right guys, please stop messaging me with conflicting information, kitz has advised that this to be stopped as I don't know what to say now to the engineer. :(
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Ok, right guys, please stop messaging me with conflicting information, kitz has advised that this to be stopped as I don't know what to say now to the engineer. :(
Please keep with what Kitz has advised William. This is your best option for the engineer.
Probably he will then up plug in the JDSU do the DLM reset and job done :)
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Oh, I so hope so! Not long now! ;D
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Oh, I so hope so! Not long now! ;D
Take a picture of his JDSU while you can.
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I will do! :D
Funnily enough, my line is at it's most stable for at least 3 days. :lol:
I presume he/she's going to ring me? You never know it could be a young lady! :blush: LOL.
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Hi guys,
Just had a call and you wouldn't actually believe it, it's our good old friend Glenn that's coming. I explained the issue and he's going to come around 14:00 to have a look and do a DLM reset. So happy! :D
IT'S GONE! :D
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DLM reset remotely, he may still come and have a look though, why only 41 Mbps though? :/
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already 11 SES
at least you happy. I dont know why you surprised the sync speed isnt much higher, multiple people told you it wouldnt be.
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That's the sync that's done that, no idea why it's stuck he's still coming though as have not had a call from him. LOL.
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well right now you on fast path, so you didnt get dumped back onto interleaving either (which I would expect on a g.inp cabinet).
I think the engineer will still show up unless you told him to only do the DLM reset and nothing else.
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Probably my attainable will go up with the G.INP activation. Well, he said he'd come and have a look. But, anyway I'll be PMing kitz soon and I'd just like to thank everyone for their efforts, I really do appreciate it.
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Probably my attainable will go up with the G.INP activation. Well, he said he'd come and have a look. But, anyway I'll be PMing kitz soon and I'd just like to thank everyone for their efforts, I really do appreciate it.
JDSU picture!!!
He's going to have a look to complete the 'job'.
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DN, he's not here yet he did it from his van! :O
So far, very little ES, I knew my line could perform like this! :D
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your errors look like they calmed down now, so just a waiting game for g.inp now and to see if the engineer manages to fix anything to improve things further.
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Yeah, I walked in and I was like "WTH, the DSL light's flashing!" and then it came back on solid and boom!
It definitely feels faster navigating around, everything loads instantly not like before!
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It definitely feels faster navigating around, everything loads instantly not like before!
You have a vivid imagination!!
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I swear it does! Ping has dropped from 35 ms to 20 ms!
I wonder how he managed to reset it remotely...
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I swear it does! Ping has dropped from 35 ms to 20 ms!
I wonder how he managed to reset it remotely...
He made a phone call to BT HQ, simple as that.
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Really, within a minute of putting his phone down? That's quick. He's a tank though, such a lovely guy.
My god, don't think I've been so happy in a long time, all your support means so much to me. :)
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Can you ask him to reset my line please ;-)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Of course, I'll send him down to you next! ;)
I'll take this any day!
(https://i.gyazo.com/ef81d3b503a45d88d7a7b2053c711696.png)
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Glenn should be here any minute, I'll update you with what happens and I'll try and get a JSU photo for Mr. Nemesis.
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Glad things are working out for you.
Others are better placed to advise but should Williams profile be 39.99 if he has changed to the 55MB product (or is it as he is currently just syncing at that speed and it will change post g.inp)?
I can't check his stats online atm
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Yes, that's sync speed related, I'm hoping G.INP will give me at least 5 Mbps more which should bring the download speed up to about 43 Mbps.
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I swear it does! Ping has dropped from 35 ms to 20 ms!
I wonder how he managed to reset it remotely...
I wouldn't be happy with that...
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:lol:
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Yes, that's sync speed related, I'm hoping G.INP will give me at least 5 Mbps more which should bring the download speed up to about 43 Mbps.
Yes, IP Profile is calculated on sync speed.
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I wonder how can you have an upload speed of 8mbps. I can barely get 7mbps with attenuation of 22.8 dB and BT speedchecker says high of 11.6 and low of 7.7 and I am still below that even when my line is clean not impacted, seriously...
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I wonder how can you have an upload speed of 8mbps. I can barely get 7mbps with attenuation of 22.8 dB and BT speedchecker says high of 11.6 and low of 7.7 and I am still below that even when my line is clean not impacted, seriously...
How do you know your line is not impacted?
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How do you know your line is not impacted?
Well, I am getting 48000 sync where the maximum on speedchecker says 51 and the Clean range is between 51-37
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I often wonder why my download maximum is a lot lower than most for a similar downstream attenuation. You only have to look at my bit loading graph to see why. I have a massive chunk missing !
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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:lol:
Your line went down, did you reboot?
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How do you know your line is not impacted?
Well, I am getting 48000 sync where the maximum on speedchecker says 51 and the Clean range is between 51-37
Could be copper conditions, interference, etc.
Have you checked your bit loading graph as suggested?
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Sorry DN, I didn't get a photo.
Anyway, Glenn is just leaving now, he checked the master socket which was up to date (a VDSL faceplate MK3) and he did a line pair quality test and he said my line was perfect and I couldn't get either a faster or better quality line from the cabinet.
I had a really good discussion with him about FTTC and he complained about how rediculous everything was. He said that BT wholesale could of reset the line without having to send me out. Just shows doesn't it.
Oh, and yes I didn't forget to make him a coffee.
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Sorry DN, I didn't get a photo.
Anyway, Glenn is just leaving now, he checked the master socket which was up to date (a VDSL faceplate MK3) and he did a line pair quality test and he said my line was perfect and I couldn't get either a faster or better quality line from the cabinet.
I had a really good discussion with him about FTTC and he complained about how rediculous everything was. He said that BT wholesale could of reset the line without having to send me out. Just shows doesn't it.
Yeah, BT Wholesale needs a way to remotely reset FTTC circuits really. It can be done on ADSL/ADSL2/ADSL2+.
Did he use a JDSU? Why didn't you take a photo?
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Could be copper conditions, interference, etc.
Have you checked your bit loading graph as suggested?
Erm, no. I can't check anything unless someone will tell me how to get additional stats from TD-W9980 :>
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I don't recall him doing one, if you mean the device that brings the line stats through then yes he did but unfortunately I was too focused on talking him to about broadband related things. LOL.
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Could be copper conditions, interference, etc.
Have you checked your bit loading graph as suggested?
Erm, no. I can't check anything unless someone will tell me how to get additional stats from TD-W9980 :>
I think you should try the Zyxel VMG8924-B10A or plug in your HG612 and extract some stats using http://www.s446074245.websitehome.co.uk/
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I don't recall him doing one, if you mean the device that brings the line stats through then yes he did but unfortunately I was too focused on talking him to about broadband related things. LOL.
Did he give you the max attainable rate using his JDSU?
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He said it was about the same, but said it always reports low on VDSL.
Well, thank god that's over. Thank you everyone again. kitz will be relieved now.
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I've just text him to confirm there's no charge.
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He's just text back saying it's 99% likely they won't charge but he's not 100% sure whether BT will charge or not.
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I think you should try the Zyxel VMG8924-B10A or plug in your HG612 and extract some stats using http://www.s446074245.websitehome.co.uk/
Haha I sold my HG612 :lol:
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:lol:
Ok, WTH is a misdetection resync?
And, I got 1 text message saying that Glenn was going to be my engineer as well as 1 text message saying he was on his way when he'd been here at least 10 minutes and 1 text message saying he had left when he'd been gone at least 30 minutes! LOL!
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Just got in. All I can say is:
TGFT
:D
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TGFT = Thank God For That? :lol:
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Oh one more thing.
Dont get hooked up now on errors unless it goes red.
ATM you're on open profile, so hopefully things should be better when G.INP goes back on.
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Just got in. All I can say is:
TGFT
:D
Thank goodness for that darling :lol:
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@William - yes.
Hover over anything with has a dotted underline
eg Your SNR looks OK
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Dont get hooked up now on errors unless it goes red.
ATM you're on open profile, so hopefully things should be better when G.INP goes back on.
Naa, I'm not going to. I've just been on the phone to my dad and the line went well weird lots of screetching and wooshing but no ES or drop outs...
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Thank goodness for that darling :lol:
OMG I got a 'g'. :blush:
Hush you or William will be spreading rumours :lol:
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You two should really meet up, you could get on very well. :lol:
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I've just been on the phone to my dad and the line went well weird lots of screetching and wooshing but no ES or drop outs...
eke :-\
That will be a voice fault then, not a broadband fault.
Ive just taken a close look at your upstream U0 & U1 band, which is where is usually shows if its broadband affecting, but nothing. Even downstream looks fine. The only thing I can see is a few CRCs.
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Yeah, I think it may have been my dad's end on his mobile. :lol:
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@William - we're winding you up :D
Its called banter.
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Nothing beats banter after a long slog of upset.
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So, what are you going to do with this enormous increase in speed then William?
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Enjoy it, especially when G.INP comes back! :P
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Any anecdotal evidence as to how long it usually takes for G.INP to return after a DLM reset?
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Normally 48 hours, note that G.INP never came back after the package upgrade.
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Any anecdotal evidence as to how long it usually takes for G.INP to return after a DLM reset?
Never if its not required.
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It's interesting that when lines need it, they get a faster speed than does that don't?
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Any anecdotal evidence as to how long it usually takes for G.INP to return after a DLM reset?
Never if its not required.
On a G.INP cabinet, should error correction be required, would interleaving or G.INP be enabled first?
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G.Inp
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G.Inp
Why is it after a DLM reset, interleaving is first enabled, then fastpath? (G.INP enabled cabinet)
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That depends on the DLM reset I think. But, I'd hope that G.INP is enabled first.
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No idea why, but that's what it does. Get a free interleaving with every DLM reset. :)
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No idea why, but that's what it does. Get a free interleaving with every DLM reset. :)
Perhaps a fail safe mode first whilst the line is is 'training'?
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Wait, there's 2 DLM resets, because the DLM reset I got is completely free of anything (banding, G.INP and interleaving). :D
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>> Why is it after a DLM reset, interleaving is first enabled, then fastpath? (G.INP enabled cabinet)
This is why over the past week or so, Ive started to come to the conclusion that there may be 2 different types of reset that can be done.
We have definitely seen some lines that have had a DLM reset go to INP3 which is FEC & Interleaving and according to Ian @ Openreach this is what should be happening.
Yet there have been a few lines where a full reset has occurred and the line has gone on to open profile. I was wondering what Williams would do, because his cab is g'inped.
I havent worked out what the criteria is though yet. It doesnt appear to be engineer related, because some reset by the engineer have caused the line to go on the supposed default INP3. Yet over the past few days, Ive seen 2 lines in particular which have ended up on open profile. - Both co-incidentally appeared to be stuck with banding. ???
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Kitz I would prefer the line goes into INP3 FEC & Interleaving 1st and then after 2 days it goes into G.INP as the open profile for me would cause 2000 ES per day and I'm on the standard profile
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I wonder how my line is going to fair this evening...
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Your on the DLM speed profile so you have plenty of headroom for ES over the next 24 hours
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Your on the DLM speed profile so you have plenty of headroom for ES over the next 24 hours
What INP level is this?
D: 841 1
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Just had a nasty spike of 128 Downstream CRC's.
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What INP level is this?
D: 841 1
At a guess INP 3
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Ok, now 2 Downstream SES. :-\
And... the Downstream SNR Margin drops below 6 dB, off we go!
Frequent SES now, might loose connection if the chipset can't take it.
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What would cause SNR margin to rise from 6 dB to 8 dB for around 5 minutes?
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What would cause SNR margin to rise from 6 dB to 8 dB for around 5 minutes?
Most probably a local crosstalk disturber going offline for 5 minutes.
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My line is certainly not a fastpath line...
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Just had a nasty spike of 128 Downstream CRC's.
Just looking at your attainable sync rate over the last 5 days when your were on G.INP and then with Interleaving it was showing around about 46000 kbps and now your on fastpath after DLM reset it has decreased by 6000kbps/6Mbps.
Where did that 6Mbps go ?
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Because G.INP isn't enabled.
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Because G.INP isn't enabled.
Could you do me a favour Will and run that BT Speed tester http://speedtest.btwholesale.com/ (http://speedtest.btwholesale.com/) the second stage to get your IP Profile, it would help
NS
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Here you go, NS:
(https://i.gyazo.com/34cddf41a3225ce340c6a584db561bd4.png)
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Well 5 days after my DLM reset and still waiting for G.Inp to be re-enabled
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It must depend on the amount of ES your getting, earlier I got at least 1000 Downstream CRC errors in the space of 30 minutes...
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Ok, now 2 Downstream SES. :-\
And... the Downstream SNR Margin drops below 6 dB, off we go!
Frequent SES now, might loose connection if the chipset can't take it.
William, please calm down a little bit. You promised me you wouldn't be sat watching errors.
I had a horrible feeling this may happen. :'(
Re SNRm
Honestly you are panicking about the drop below 6dB - its nothing and only hovering.
Its doing what the vast majority of lines do each and every day. Its flickering at 5.9 and 6.0dB. Seriously that is good - its stable.
Go look at my line - I class my line as rock steady, but I'm continually flickering between 7.5 and 7.6 dB.. in fact now Ive checked its 7.4dB.
See its normal.
Re the errors
Remember your line is on open profile, it has no error protection, no redundancy, no g.inp... its running wide open without any help.
Its specifically why I said this
Oh one more thing.
Dont get hooked up now on errors unless it goes red.
ATM you're on open profile, so hopefully things should be better when G.INP goes back on.
Hundreds of lines will go through open profile each day - many of them will experience an increase in errors. Just wait for DLM to catch up with g.inp.
Seriously if I lived nearby, right now I'd be banging on your door and pulling the cable so you couldnt be sat watching DSLstats. :lol:
[Moderator edited to fix a broken [quote][/quote] tag pair.]
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Just looking at your attainable sync rate over the last 5 days when your were on G.INP and then with Interleaving it was showing around about 46000 kbps and now your on fastpath after DLM reset it has decreased by 6000kbps/6Mbps.
Where did that 6Mbps go ?
When a line is interleaved it has a habit of skewing overheads and increasing the max attainable.
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I'm sorry, kitz. I am not freaking out, I'm just interested in what's going on that's all.
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What would cause SNR margin to rise from 6 dB to 8 dB for around 5 minutes?
Most probably a local crosstalk disturber going offline for 5 minutes.
Is the VDSL2+ signal present even when the modem is not on and sync'd?
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When a line is interleaved it has a habit of skewing overheads and increasing the max attainable.
Thankyou Will your doing a nice 96.8% I am stuck at 91/92 % :-\
I know this happens with Interleaving but don't see this to often when a line has be assigned to the so called fastpath profile interleaving 1
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@dave
Hoping it kicks in soon for you. :fingers:
----
If Williams takes as long, then you may be able to find me trying out the facilities in the new hotel thats just opened here (https://www.lancashirecare.nhs.uk/TheHarbour). :D
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I know this happens with Interleaving but don't see this to often when a line has be assigned to the so called fastpath profile interleaving 1
Now that he's not interleaved then the overhead has vanished.. and thats why his sync and max attainable are appx the same.
You usually only see that additional overhead, when the line is interleaved.
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Is the VDSL2+ signal present even when the modem is not on and sync'd?
No, the has to be on. Its the signal coming down the other line that 'bleeds' to neighbouring cables which causes the crosstalk.
Switch off the modem, then no signal and therefore no crosstalk.
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Now that he's not interleaved then the overhead has vanished.. and thats why his sync and max attainable are appx the same.
You usually only see that additional overhead, when the line is interleaved.
So Will should have a nice 45/46 sync and attainable when G.INP kicks in :fingers:
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Is the VDSL2+ signal present even when the modem is not on and sync'd?
No, the has to be on. Its the signal coming down the other line that 'bleeds' to neighbouring cables which causes the crosstalk.
Switch off the modem, then no signal and therefore no crosstalk.
Thanks darlin', I'm impresed with your knowledge. :lol:
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No.. the line is currently running in its 'raw' state with no protection at all.
With G.INP it will run at about the same rate as now, but just more stable.
Retransmission has nothing to give speed wise. Where speed increases from g.inp are usually made is by removal of FEC overhead redundancy.
William currently has no redundancy to recover any speed from.
When he was interleaved, that redundancy was giving an inflated figure.
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No.. the line is currently running in its 'raw' state with no protection at all.
With G.INP it will run at about the same rate as now, but just more stable.
Retransmission has nothing to give speed wise. Where speed increases from g.inp are usually made is by removal of FEC overhead redundancy.
William currently has no redundancy to recover any speed from.
When he was interleaved, that redundancy was giving an inflated figure.
Am I right in thinking that G.INP is like fastpath but with error correction by means of fast physical layer transmission when required? Instead of interleaving which adds overhead and is on 24/7?
Therefore G.INP is a speed maintainer and not booster?
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Yep - See G.INP Retransmission (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/retransmission.htm) for how it works.
In particular ~ Will G.INP give me more line speed? (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/retransmission.htm#retransmission-speed)
G.INP can only give back some of the speed previously taken away by Error Correction overheads and Interleave delay.
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@William
Few more ES spikes and you will notice a delay: 8 there :lol:
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That's interesting, kitz. I'll have to call BT and move back to the "up to 38 Mbps" package... Are you sure when G.INP kicks in I won't get a higher sync speed?
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That's interesting, kitz. I'll have to call BT and move back to the "up to 38 Mbps" package... Are you sure when G.INP kicks in I won't get a higher sync speed?
I don't think you will, your attenuation is higher than mine and I can barely get 45mbps with SnR dropping to 5dB making attainable sync of 46000 which is about 43mbps. Not sure if G.INP is enable but probably not as I had DLM reset as well.
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Well, I'm confused. I've heard from a lot of people including mlmclaren that G.INP increases the sync rate...
I wouldn't be surprised if DLM has done some changes tomorrow if not the day after.
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G.inp can increase sync rate on lines that have had interleave applied. This error correction in effect reduces the available sync rate due to overheads. When g.inp is applied to these lines the overheads are removed allowing for a higher sync rate.
You are on an open profile with no interleave etc therefore you are getting the max possible on your line. You will find that dlm will intervene and your sync will reduce if interleave is applied. If only g.inp is applied your sync should stay around what u have now.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Bugger. But, then kitz said that my speed would go up with G.INP... :(
To be quite honest, if I'd have kept Glenn's number I would have rung him up months ago, got the DLM reset and not have to faf with all this nonsense. Ah well, at least I got it removed.
"That will entirely depend on your pre-G.INP DLM profile and line condition. If the DLM had previously applied Interleaving and Error Correction then there is a good chance that it will."
Well, then that means if my attainable rate was around 46 Mbps with interleaving and error connection, then the speed would go up with G.INP when these had been removed?
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The max attainable figures you saw this morning was an estimate made by the billion modem. This is calculated in software and therefore prone to errors and these errors vary between different makes of modem - billion tend to go on the high side. This was pointed out to you. Kitz explained that your sync would increase with g.inp or an open profile applied to your line which you have now. Unfortunately it is not near the estimate given by your billion modem
You seem to be adding more comments to your previous post as I'm typing a reply.
Remember your max speed was an estimate from a piece of software written by a engineer. As you had interleave applied this figure is not guaranteed. 2 different modems on your line will give u different results.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I'll have to call BT and move back to the "up to 38 Mbps" package...
Excuse me everyone..
Are you sure when G.INP kicks in I won't get a higher sync speed?
Im just about to walk away from the PC and pour myself a very large one. :lol:
then kitz said that my speed would go up with G.INP.
Where did I say that?
I've spent all evening explaining it will be more stable with g.inp, and retransmission can only give back speed taken away by interleaving and error correction is removed. :(
/me goes to get rat arsed.
:drunk:
Im sure I said a few days ago that I estimated a figure of ~ 42Mbps, but was going down this route to get rid of the banding
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I gained 10 Mbps when G.INP was enabled 8 days ago and Interleaving went down and INP went up
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Ok, let me explain kitz quote snippets..
I am getting 1 Mbps more on this new package, to say that the package actually caused more problems than good, I was trying to explain that getting the Openreach engineer visit beforehand would've possibly been better, we don't know yet.
I'm so confused, sorry everyone. One person tells me G.INP will increase my speed, someone else says not, now I've just quoted in a previous post the answer so you can't argue that surely?
I don't recall 42 Mbps, anyway we're talking just a few Mbps which probably won't make any difference anyway, but it's nice to get the fastest speed your line can handle. I swear on ADSL if you have interleaving on, you get a higher sync speed because the line isn't having to work as hard, as I thought was the same with G.INP... Obviously not.
Anyway, my line is absoloutely messed up this evening, so good bye fastpath...
My line just dropped out...
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Yeah I was sure your line has a fault. I'm surprised your technician didn't spot it when he came.
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He said my line was "perfection"...
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If I was you William I would turn off your PC and do something else for 2 or 3 days. The errors on your line are annoying - but remember there is NOTHING you can do about them! Your banding is gone which is great news. Your line WILL settle down and DLM will get you stable again. Be happy you are on a Huawei cainet, if your line needs G.INP both upstream & down it will apply it for you.
In a weeks time you will be sync'd at 42Mbps and happy that it is stable and has nice low pings.
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... now go and buy Kitz another drink ;)
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Why, underzone? This is NOT controlling my life, I have just been prioritising it recently.
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If I was you William I would turn off your PC and do something else for 2 or 3 days.
What I think he is saying don't look at your stats until G.INP goes live on sunday
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Ok, I'm not going to be watching it, now you all wanted me to upload and now I'm hooked, what have you all done! :lol:
Guys, I am 17, not a child, if it was starting to affect me, I'd manage it myself, now I'm saying that straight, I'm not going at anyone, alright? ;)
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"That will entirely depend on your pre-G.INP DLM profile and line condition. If the DLM had previously applied Interleaving and Error Correction then there is a good chance that it will."
I think you mis-understand.
Your line hasn't now got any Interleaving and Error Correction, so it cant give you any more :(
Remember when Interleaving was applied when you first got 55/10?
It took away some of your SNRm which in turn decreases your sync rate.
Look at my post here (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,17546.msg320490.html#msg320490)
Look how I even said "Cap still in place. G.INP removed and Interleaving and Forward Error Correction applied. Overheads from FEC redundancy reduce line rate."
I could see this because your SNRm had gone down from 9.7dB to 6.6dB.
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Right, so my line may even end up becoming 35 Mbps again at this rate. :(
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Right, so my line may even end up becoming 35 Mbps again at this rate. :(
It may end up at worst being the rate it was before you upgraded and resynced it loads of times. That's worst case. I'm not sure what that was as it was hundreds of posts ago most possibly :lol:
Best case you gain more speed or keep you have now with G.INP.
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Don't laugh, I was advised it would be better, I thanked everyone and even donated to kitz and now it's messed up again. For heaven sake!
Oh, and just to make it clear, I'm not making the above comment about anyone, I'm just done in with it really...
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G.INP works by removing the overheads you'd have from Interleaving, but it does have a slight overhead.
So basing this on your current scenario, you will most likely keep the sync speed you've got now, with the G.INP so no errors.
Currently your line has NO error correction hence you are getting lots of ES. Currently this is in hand for your line as none of your traffic lights are red. G.INP stabilises a line, and based on thousands of line parameters you *could* gain speed. But the idea of G.INP is to apply error correction but retain your current sync speed as best it can.
If it were me, see how it goes, we will only truly know how it affects your line when you actually get it applied to the line.
Don't laugh, I was advised it would be better, I thanked everyone and even donated to kitz and now it's messed up again. For heaven sake!
May I remind you this is an *upto* product. You aren't guaranteed the full speed. BT's checker will tell you the Clean and Impacted speed boundaries for the line. The attainable rate also does not give your actual expected speed, that's the routers estimate based on it's time of sync. This is not any of our fault, we are simply advising on the data you've provided. You were advised it would be better, no one made any promises.
Your line may just not be of good enough quality, there's a lot of limiting factors including RFI and crosstalking. The spikes you get indicate crosstalkers most likely on the line.
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Ok, I'm not going to be watching it, now you all wanted me to upload and now I'm hooked, what have you all done! :lol:
If you have a boring line like my own you would check it once a day it becomes interesting during a local thunder storm event or crosstalker events that's about it
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My line certainly aint boring, at the moment! :lol:
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Guys, calm down. I am not saying that you said things were definite, but it felt to me as if upgrading to the new package would give a benefit but all it's done now is removed the banding and the stupid pings I was getting...
Anyway, I am not letting this get to me anymore, kitz will get incredibly stressed out if this keeps going on and she's a lovely lady who does lovely things so doesn't deserve this.
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What was your sync speed before the banding when you had G.INP William?
As for the state of the line now its better, you've lost banding and latency has decreased, you just need to gain back G.INP and then reassess.
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My Downstream Rate was 40000 Kbps.
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If you have a boring line like my own you would check it once a day it becomes interesting during a local thunder storm event or crosstalker events that's about it
Don't even monitor mine at xDSL level. As long as whatever is going on there doesn't impinge on IP traffic, which I do monitor, not in any way bothered :)
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William
Your line is better.
You are syncing at what ~ 41Mbps, which is more than the 40Mbps you were getting. The bonus is that your banding got removed.
We definitely warned you that you wouldnt get much more than 40Mbps, but you proceeded with the upgrade because you wanted to get rid of the banding.
I only stepped in big time when DLM didnt remove the 35k cap. I think its wrong that ISPs cant reset DLM and that we have to get an engineer out to do something relatively simple.
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Oh, and yes I didn't forget to make him a coffee.
Our line only got fixed when we gave the guy lunch (toasted cheese and ham sandwiches).
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I should mention I do very much monitor at IP level though. Combination of doing this stuff for a living and working from home.
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thinkbroadband.com%2Fping%2Fshare-thumb%2F450128485889fb287bc6263a4783a064-22-04-2016.png&hash=0f4c6b7b6b1a16498e5b370d7bce0cb27f142883)
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs31.postimg.org%2Fjda1ujnuz%2FTraffic.png&hash=67e70702b5db72b5d4f9c83cb4c31f5dd0796f82)
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Thanks, kitz.
We shall see if it's better over time, I'm probably asuuming everything is going wrong too early. :lol:
Yes, you're right, it is wrong and even Glenn admitted that, we should do something about this! *Gets out army gear*
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Our line only got fixed when we gave the guy lunch (toasted cheese and ham sandwiches).
You what? :lol:
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William, looking at your ES rate for the last 2-3 hours, I would say you will definitely be interleaved soon with increased delay.
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Guess you couldn't resist re-syncing at 21.00
Leave things alone!
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I did not resync the line! That was DLM look at MDWS! Please look before you post! ARGH!
I am now getting packet loss on TeamSpeak.
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Although DLM resyncs have been occurring later in the day... I've never seen one as late as 9pm.
I cannot see any reason why the line would resync. That SNRm is stable.
The amount of E/Secs isnt enough to justify packet loss. 19 CRCs in a hour should not be affecting Teamspeak.
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Although DLM resyncs have been occurring later in the day... I've never seen one as late as 9pm.
I cannot see any reason why the line would resync. That SNRm is stable.
The amount of E/Secs isnt enough to justify packet loss. 19 CRCs in a hour should not be affecting Teamspeak.
So does a specific amount of ES or CRC affects broadband performance like packet loss or slow website loading? I thought its only determinant of quality of the line and can affects broadband performance only after a resync (increased delay etc.)
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It was more likely an LOS, IMO.
I've had more than 19 CRC's! I'm getting hundreds of Downstream CRC's an hour!
Just had a massive burst of Downstream SES's!
5162 Downstream CRC's in a minute! My line is about to rip apart!
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Yeah I was sure your line has a fault. I'm surprised your technician didn't spot it when he came.
Are you winding him William up Dray?
I'm wondering how could he spot it? He was a broadband tech. He was sent to fix a broadband speed fault. Not a voice fault
The line is swinging about 1dB over the course of the day, looks like a fairly regular swing.
There's absolutely no SNRm spikes, the line hasnt even dropped below 5dB. Hlog is pretty damn perfect.
OK so there was a small amount of what looked like REIN the other afternoon between the hours of 1-4.30 which has now gone.
I too can get that if my neighbour gets his jet washer out, although I've yet to fathom out why it does it., but it does. So am I too supposed to say Ive got a line fault because of this?
Williams line is getting CRCs and some E/Secs tonight.
But that is why FEC/Interleaving... and G.INP was invented.... to keep Errors under control.
If about 6 different engineers couldn't find anything wrong with this line (see attached) which frequently loss sync despite the massive SNRm margin, how is one likely to spot anything wrong on Williams line today?
It took me over 2 months to get this sorted. All the tests BT ran came back no fault found. It wasnt until the voice failed so bad that you couldnt even carry out a convo, was it fixed.
Now this was my line and I kinda knew what I was talking about. I had graphs to back everything up.. yet it wasnt an easy 2 months with loss of syncs and DLM intervention. Now if I find that stressful with about a dozen Openreach visits.
How is William going to prove he has a fault when there is nothing there to show a fault.
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The line is swinging about 1dB over the course of the day, looks like a fairly regular swing.
There's absolutely no SNRm spikes, the line hasnt even dropped below 5dB. Hlog is pretty damn perfect.
Williams line is getting CRCs and some E/Secs tonight.
But that is why FEC/Interleaving... and G.INP was invented.... to keep Errors under control.
I wouldn't say "some" Downstream CRC's, I'd say "a hell of a lot" but you know me Mr. OTT. ;)
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I said some ErrSecs. MDWS is showing me 14 E/Secs but Im aware that counter may have been reset. Hence my use of 'some' because I didn't know the amount.
There is one thing now that I am uncertain about and that is what DLM will do next.
In theory it should apply g.inp, but because its on open profile.. Im not sure. :(
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(https://i.gyazo.com/0d4c6a49e02f2327f67fb5b1de74f96d.png)
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Are you winding him William up Dray?
I've blocked him on my end, he's wound me up so many times you may want to have a word with him. Some people fail to spot that someone is somewhat different to others.
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Yeah I was sure your line has a fault. I'm surprised your technician didn't spot it when he came.
Are you winding him William up Dray?
I'm wondering how could he spot it? He was a broadband tech. He was sent to fix a broadband speed fault. Not a voice fault
My last technician managed to make my line perfect. I'm on full sync after having poor speeds with loads of errors. I don't know how he did it, or what he did, but it's a whole lot better than it was.
No, I'm not winding anyone up.
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What does 98% mean at the top of that DSL screenshot?
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I think its the % of the day that you have uploaded.
Mines also at 98% yet afaik Ive been uploading without a break.
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The counters at the top are for the minute only, so e.g. when I posted earlier he had 11 SES, that wasnt the total that was 11 SES for the 60 sec monitoring period.
This line is going to need DLM intervention, lets hope it is just g.inp.
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I think its the % of the day that you have uploaded.
Mines also at 98% yet afaik Ive been uploading without a break.
Yes, the tooltip will tell you that.... You have been missing one upload every hour for some time at around the 45th minute. Although it seems to have stopped for the past couple of hours.
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The counters at the top are for the minute only, so e.g. when I posted earlier he had 11 SES, that wasnt the total that was 11 SES for the 60 sec monitoring period.
60 secs (i.e. the count at last upload) for everything except SES where it's a 5 min mean - see the tooltip. I did this as they are important and if you blink you might miss one....
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ok thanks
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The counters at the top are for the minute only, so e.g. when I posted earlier he had 11 SES, that wasnt the total that was 11 SES for the 60 sec monitoring period.
This line is going to need DLM intervention, lets hope it is just g.inp.
Apologies - I wasnt aware of that -
I was thinking it was the total taken straight from stats. - ie the figure you get when you pull them from your modem in telnet. :-[
I was also viewing with the " Totals/Averages for ES/SES Graphs" at the bottom of the page unchecked - (which is now ticked) so didnt see the same 4 coloured graph that William posted later on.
I agree it needs DLM to kick in and hope that it is g.inp :fingers:
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Hmm, my Downstream Attainable Rate is now all over the place as well as the Upstream SNR Margin! :lol:
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>> You have been missing one upload every hour for some time at around the 45th minute.
Hmm strange no idea what that could have been - was out most of yesterday so PC should have been idle.
Although I used HGstats to upload, DSLstats isnt showing anything in the event log that it has had difficulties obtaining stats.
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I was thinking it was the total taken straight from stats. - ie the figure you get when you pull them from your modem in telnet. :-[
They are - except for SES as explained on 1st Feb below when SES were first available....
http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,14361.msg310906.html#msg310906 (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,14361.msg310906.html#msg310906)
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>> You have been missing one upload every hour for some time at around the 45th minute.
Hmm strange no idea what that could have been - was out most of yesterday so PC should have been idle.
I have tried to explain in the past what might be or not be happening a few times, one post is here:
http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,14361.msg314992.html#msg314992 (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,14361.msg314992.html#msg314992)
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@Tony.
Ive tried looking into this and its something to do with ONGOING-ISRUNNING in HG612modem stats.
Ive opened a new thread here (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,17613.0.html) so as not to take this one off-topic.