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[catzi]

Hi, I've got a REIN problem on my ADSL line. Definitely not coming from in my house (had the power off at the mains) and can be picked up on a MW radio. I'm currently building up some graphical info for BT. I have a Draytek 2830 which is outputting logging info to Kiwi Syslog which I then parse with a basic program to strip SNR Margin over time. I then pull that info into Excel and produce graphs which show clear drop-offs (10db) in signal through the day.

My questions is can anyone recommend a software package which could automate the collection / graphing of stats for the Draytek?  I think MRTG could do it using SNMP but it seems a real pain to install/configure under windows.


 

[waltergmw]

Hi Catzi and welcome,

Give that you are going to spend time and / or money, why not buy a 2Wire 2700HGV modem @ less than £30 from Amazon or perhaps e-bay?

Kind regards,
Walter

[jeffbb]

Hi
you could try routerstats 

either the full version or the lite version

Regards Jeff

[catzi]

Thanks for the suggestions. I have a 2700HGV somewhere already (I have a 'number' of routers  ) and I've tried using Routerstats but it doesn't seem to like the 2830.

Think I'll carry on with my manual method - between myself and an Openreach engineer, we've traced the problem to something in my neighbour's house. Now trying to isolate exactly what without upsetting the neigbours too much!

[GunJack]

what about a version of the DMT tool ?? If you can find one that works with your draytec, you can set it to monitor snrm over 1/4/8/12/24-hr periods and produce a nice graph with the bitloadings on....like the one attached

[attachment deleted by admin]

[catzi]

Unfortunately DMT doesn't work with the Drayteks.

Making progress with the REIN issue anyway - my neighbour was out yesterday and powered off everything. No SNR drops as a result - so definitely a problem with an something electrical in their property. He's switching everything off again today and then when he needs to use a device, making a note of the time so I can compare to the SNR drops. Good to have cooperative neighbours! 

[GunJack]

Wow, that's good of them Hope you track it down soon so you don't push the goodwill

[catzi]

Hmm the problem is being caused by my neigbour's stairlift. It's battery operated and I think the problem is being generated by the battery charger. While my neighbour is very willing to help, the stairlift maintenance people are not. The engineer that came out was what I would describe as 'aggresively defensive' and said his company would only do something if they had it in writing from BT that their stairlift is causing a problem. This was despite me demonstrating the interference on a radio, in a different room.

Amazing. If I ran my business with that level of 'service' I'd be bankrupt tomorrow.

Anayway, back to Zen to see if they can help - I'm now offering to pay for the BT engineer's time.

[HPsauce]

If it's anything like my in-laws stairlift the charger is a typical "wall wart" unit that has a DC output to charge a 12V battery.
It's probably a somewhat higher current (and voltage?) than routers etc. but shouldn't be that expensive to replace. See if you can have a look at it to get the spec.

Here's one that I think is like my in-laws one: http://www.stairlift-spares.co.uk/products.asp?cat=115

[razpag]

Hmm the problem is being caused by my neigbour's stairlift. It's battery operated and I think the problem is being generated by the battery charger. While my neighbour is very willing to help, the stairlift maintenance people are not. The engineer that came out was what I would describe as 'aggresively defensive' and said his company would only do something if they had it in writing from BT that their stairlift is causing a problem. This was despite me demonstrating the interference on a radio, in a different room.

Amazing. If I ran my business with that level of 'service' I'd be bankrupt tomorrow.

Anayway, back to Zen to see if they can help - I'm now offering to pay for the BT engineer's time.

Catzi ..... It wouldn't be BT that "wrote a letter", it would be the Openreach REIN team that do it. Have just had my official REIN course today and this kind of scenario cropped up. The REIN engineer reports his findings back to his/her REIN controllers, and they organise the sending out of letters if the offending item won't be switched off.

[Shoei]

If BT can't get the manufacturer to be helpful then you could treat it as a regular EMC issue. All electrical equipment in the EU has to conform to European directives and show a CE label to confirm it. It would be worth taking a look at the kit, particularly the power supply to see how it's labelled.

The usual way for companies to justify the CE label is by self certification. They should obtain test results to confirm that the product is safe and doesn't radiate excessive amounts of RF. You could ask the manufacturer (or importer if it's from outside the EU) to see the 'CE Declaration of Conformance'. This should list what standards they've applied and how they justify the certification. Aside from EMC and electrical safey certifications a stairlift would also be covered by the Machinery Directive.

The certification and/or installation manual might show up a problem, if for example the manufacturer specifies an earthing arrangement that the installer has missed.

If the certification looks ok but there is still excessive interference then it becomes a Trading Standards issue and you can discuss it with your local Trading Standards officer. Typically Trading Standards take a soft line to begin with, inviting the manufacturer/installer to take corrective action. If they don't then it can end up in court.

Technically this will be simple to fix but I doubt your neighbour wants to risk affecting the warranty or service agreement so they'll want the supplier to deal with it.

[waltergmw]

Also remember there are fail-safe considerations. Such devices usually have a good sized battery to allow the chair to travel several journeys in a power outage.
If the device is radiating RF it might suggest that the charger could have become faulty as a battery usually acts as a good capacitor.
As well as the statutory procedures you might suggest that the firm should replicate a full factory commissioning test.
That will take some time and a more cost effective method might be unit replacement.
If that "shot across the bows" wakes the firm up, it might be the simplest and quickest route to problem resolution.
Much will depend if a maintenance agreement / insurance is in place as the provider then has to cover repair costs, rather that the user if they are just relying on paid maintenance-call outs.

Kind regards,
Walter

[catzi]

Thanks guys, the chair has it's own electrical spur rather than a plug in charger.

I've asked Zen if it's possible to get me a REIN engineer. I also spoke to Ofcom and they told me that any requests would have to come via the ISP.

I'm sure there is some underlying problem with the chairlift anyway - a couple of times it has been powered off, the chair hasn't worked. The engineer says this is because the 'cards aren't talking to each other' due to the power outage. Strange, I thought the whole idea of the battery-based chair was to be power outage 'proof'.

I don't know the manufacturer of the chair but will try and find out so I can contact them directly 

[waltergmw]

Hi Catzi,

If the house owner needs a chair lift it seems as if the existing device is faulty or is not fit for purpose.
Such devices MUST survive power outages be they just a short drop or a much longer period.

I have a little experience of a lift and trying to get an impaired person off one mid way between floors is not funny.

However I realise some tact may be necessary here, especially if there might be a hefty bill to pay.

Kind regards,
Walter

[stevie]

Reading the bit about the stairlift not working if the power is off, would suggest to me that the battery is kanckered (technical term) or the charging circuit is defunct..

What may be happening is that the charger is powering the Lift and is not designed to do so, so in effect is being overloaded which will likely cause a lot of interference.

The fact it happens at different times of the day would also reinforce the above, I`ll bet it only happens when the lift is in actual use, if the charger is actually at fault it would be constant - the charger is connected by a spur so will be always on.

It could be a combination of all the above, of course I may be wide of the mark on all above.

If I was the owner I`d be pretty peed off if I got stuck halfway up the stairs during a power cut.