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Author Topic: Short line low speed :(  (Read 6657 times)

marshalln

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Short line low speed :(
« on: November 08, 2010, 01:13:34 PM »

Hi,
I live about 450m line of sight from my exchange, about 700m by road.
My stats are as below with the SNRM downstream bouncing between 6 and 27db
 
 Showtime Firmware Version: 3.40
 Line State: SHOWTIME
 Modulation: G.dmt
 Annex Mode: ANNEX_A
 Startup Attempts: 2
 Max Tx Power: -38 dBm/Hz 
 CO Vendor: ALCATEL_NETWORK
 Elaspsed Time: 0 days 1 hours 1 minutes 4 seconds

 Downstream Upstream 
SNR Margin 6.3 24.0 dB
Line Attenuation 11.9 11.0 dB
Errored Seconds 327 0 
Loss of Signal 1 1 
Loss of Frame 0 0 
CRC Errors 5167 0 
Data Rate 4480 448 kbps
Latency INTERLEAVED INTERLEAVED 

I suspect I have a noisy line which is leading to the BT Broadband line speed estimate of 2Mb.

I am with Orange, any ideas on how to get an engineer to check the line from the exchange to my house. After speaking to the Orange 'support' team I got know where as they thought to 2mb ought to be good enough despite me being on an 'upto 8Mb' contract.

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Oranged

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Re: Short line low speed :(
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2010, 01:21:34 PM »

You'll get more info. on what's wrong by getting the report from www.speedtester.bt.com and posting it back here.
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UncleUB

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Re: Short line low speed :(
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2010, 02:00:17 PM »

Hi

Your line is capable of over 21MB,and if on ADSL2+ 24MB,so obviously something is seriously wrong.

http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/max_speed_calc.php

Have you tried connecting directly into the BT master socket,thus eliminating any problems with your own internal wiring/extensions.

Orange are one of the worse isp's and their customer service is abysmal.Have you thought about migrating to a decent isp.
See what's available at your exchange here

http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/adslchecker.php
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jeffbb

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Re: Short line low speed :(
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2010, 02:12:03 PM »

Hi
What router are you using ? Is it compatible with routerstats  .
Very useful trouble shooting tool.If it is then please post the Noise margin graph after running it for a couple of hours .
Regards Jeff
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: Short line low speed :(
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2010, 05:46:40 PM »


I suspect I have a noisy line which is leading to the BT Broadband line speed estimate of 2Mb.

You're probably right.  For an established line, the BT estimator just reflects the line's recent performance, they shouldn't really call it an estimator IMHO.  Many ISPs don't understand that, but then many ISPs don't understand much at all.

Quote
I am with Orange, any ideas on how to get an engineer to check the line from the exchange to my house.
It's a lot easier if you can demonstrate a fault that effects the telephony service (voice).  When you are using the phone, is there any crackling or background noise?   If your line is form BT,  you can use the 'quiet line test', on 17070.  Use a corded phone for the test if possible.

If there is crackling, or other noise to be heard, report it as a phone fault to BT (or whoever provides the phone service), and don't mention DSL.   That keeps Orange out of the equation, whilst your DSL should be much improved after any fault is fixed. But if the phone is OK then don't try to pull the wool over their eyes either, BT can charge you a hefty callout fee if you report a phone fault and no fault is found.



PS (edit!), confirm the 'quiet line test' from the master socket, with any extension wiring disconnected, to eliminate the possibility it's the wiring in your house that's to blame.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2010, 05:51:08 PM by sevenlayermuddle »
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kitz

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Re: Short line low speed :(
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2010, 06:51:18 AM »

>> SNRM downstream bouncing between 6 and 27db

Sounds like either a fault on the physical line or a bad case of REIN.

1) Quiet line test as described by 7LM would be the first thing to try to eliminate telephony problems,
2. and then monitoring with routerstats to see if theres some sort of pattern to aid REIN diagnostics.
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marshalln

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Re: Short line low speed :(
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2010, 01:54:01 PM »

Sorry Guys, I was expecting some sort of notification and missed your responses.

I have done a quiet line test, all is fine no crackle at all.
My router is a Dynamode ADSL 4 port, it's nothing special but I've had 6Mb once a year or so ago.
I have run RouterStats and have attached the details for SNR Margin, varying between about 22db and -4db
I have a BT Master Socket with an ADSL filtered NTE5 faceplate
My issue with moving to another provider is that with Orange I have """unlimited""" bandwidth and I have no idea how much I am using. If I move to BT for instance there charges of £1 per Gb over the package limit could be expensive and although the Orange support is like talking to a stuck record I suspect this is more of a line issue which would apply to any ISP, BTW one of my neighbours is getting 2.5Mbps which is similar to my figures, suggesting it might not be an issue with my equipment.
I've now clicked the 'notify' option  :)

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marshalln

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Re: Short line low speed :(
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2010, 02:03:13 PM »

Re bandwidth usage. I have 3 teenagers and far too many computers in the house so when they are all using iPlayer et al, on line games and Spotify, I am sure that I am testing the outer limits of the Orange "unlimited" bandwidth.
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: Short line low speed :(
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2010, 03:20:36 PM »

That's a horrible graph. SNRM can fluctuate by a few dB within a few hours, and a few more dB at night, but yours is all over the place.  I hear what you say about a neighbour having similar issues but, all the same, I'd be inclined to try and eliminate and problems internal to your home.

You say you have a filtered master, but is there any extension wiring?  If so, perhaps disconnect it, and see if the SNRM stabilises?

It could also be a faulty electrical appliance, or perhaps a thermostat in you CH, or even faulty house electrics.  One way to narrow it down is to go to the consumer unit (*see below)  and ask somebody to watch the SNRM while you switch off each circuit in turn, except the one that powers the PC & router.  Then unplug everything else plugged into that last mains circuit, one at a time, with somebody watching the SNRM again.   During all of that, if the SNRM suddenly stabilises or improves, you could be onto something...  

Other possibilities would include things such things as faulty street lights, have you seen any patters (like time of day) when the SNRM is better or worse?

Old AM radios used to be quite susceptible to switching interference. If you have one, you could try wandering around the house (or streets) with a radio tuned between stations to see if it yields any clues.   Unfortunately a certain amount of buzzing and popping on AM is quite normal, you just have to follow your hunches.

edit: * My suggestion is based on the more recent consumer units with an individual switchable trip for each circuit.  Wouldn't be much help on an old-style fuse box.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2010, 03:25:07 PM by sevenlayermuddle »
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marshalln

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Re: Short line low speed :(
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2010, 03:39:07 PM »

First of all I'll have to collect any suggestions and then wait until Thursday night to try them out, as I working away for the next few days.

It's definately not the central heating as it was off, I don't think it is the house electrics either as it has been rewired in the last few years and thoroughly checked, during the day we have remarkably little on with a background load of 250watts, including my laptops, wireless points, fridge. Similarly no street lights during the day time, I ran RouterStats for the afternoon and it was constantly horrible, I'll give it a longer go when I'm home again to see if there is any variation through the day.

To do AM radio check.
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jeffbb

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Re: Short line low speed :(
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2010, 04:33:28 PM »

Hi

Well until this horrible noise is sorted there is no point in trying any other iSP . This is either your internal wiring or a problem between you and the exchange ,
from Kitz
If you suspect there is something interfering with your broadband, get an AM/MW radio and tune it to 612Khz. If you hold the radio next to an LCD screen for your pc as an example you would hear a distinct noise. This should fade away if you move the radio a quarter to half a meter away. Hold it by your modem/router and you'll hear the DSL signal.

Read more: http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/rein.htm#ixzz14nrUMdJz

might be worth trying to improve your connection .

quote BTW one of my neighbours is getting 2.5Mbps which is similar to my figures, suggesting it might not be an issue with my equipment.

That proves nothing . If anything he might have same problem ,if he has similar attenuation as you then he should be synchronizing very much higher .

Regards Jeff
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: Short line low speed :(
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2010, 05:27:15 PM »

Just one more thing to try, and that is to see if taking a phone off-hook makes any difference to the SNRM.  If so, it would strongly suggest a bad joint in the cabling, either in your own internal wiring, or between you & the exchange.   The extra current that flows with a phone off-hook can temporarily 'seal' noisy connections.

Sorry if we are overloading you with suggestions, don't want to scare you away.   :)
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marshalln

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Re: Short line low speed :(
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2010, 05:45:20 PM »

No problem, I used to be a BT engineer (Research), I don't scare easily.

I done that check already, with the handset off there is no difference.
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marshalln

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Re: Short line low speed :(
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2010, 05:50:05 PM »

Please excuse my poor typing :o
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marshalln

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Re: Short line low speed :(
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2010, 01:46:40 PM »

Okay I've run some more test since I got home last night,

AM Radio check - nothin found apart from usual background hiss.
Alternative router - I have vague memories of throwing the Orange supplied router out last year after never having used it! Just shows you should NEVER throw anything out. ditto the line filters that cam e with it. There fore I can't check from the test socket.

RooterStats was left on over night and it showed an improvment over the first file posted, however at 8:00 there was a noticeable drop in the Rx SNR Margin from average 18db down to 12db, it suggests that there is some human activity related change occuring but haven't narrowed that down as to what that is yet. All the same the SNRM is still horribly variable at any time of day.

My received b/w is 4.2Mbps today after being stuck at 1.96Mbps for weeks, is somebody playing with line capping somewhere, I wonder?

Next steps turn everything bar the router off in the house and see if that makes any difference, then talk to a friendly neighbour and see if they'll let me do some RouterStats from their system, or even borrow a route for an hour!

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