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[Peter]

Today I received this from two different sources and I'm a bit suspicious of it, does anyone have any info on this please?

Peter

Subject: Unsubscribing from the National Mobile Phone Directory

The Directory of Mobile Phone numbers goes live next week.
All numbers including those belonging to children will be open to cold calling and the general abuse that less scrupulous telesales people subject us too.

To remove your number go here. (you need your mobile phone with you to do this, they text you a code)


http://www.118800.co.uk/removeme/remove-me.html

 

Tell all your friends - especially those with children who have mobile phones. I personally believe my mobile number is private and I should be able to chose who I give it to - none of us agreed to this when we signed our mobile phone contracts.

 

[tuftedduck]

Good morning, Peter.

I know that there is now a system in place to create a directory of mobile phone numbers, and I know that there is a system for opting out of such.

Whether the mail you have received is the real thing or a piggyback scam I am not sure.

Will hunt around and see if I can relocate the site where I found info. on this subject and post back in a bit..


I'm back 

To read about the system, go to http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/09/mobile_phone_directory/

That article includes a link to the company providing the directory, and to it's "opt-out" section, the link is http://www.118800.co.uk/faqs.html

That link appears to be the source of the mail you have received, judging by the name/address shown so it is probably ok.

[kitz]

Funny enough I heard about this, this weekend from someone who has opted out.
However, after looking into it - unless Im missing something - it really does not seem as bad as its made out to be.
In fact the person who told me about it in the first place actually muttered "Ive been el'regged" last night when he looked at the facts too.

The directory doesnt disclose your number to anyone..  it only informs you that 'a named person' has been trying to contact you.  Its then up to you whether or not you want to accept the call or do anything about it.

When I first heard about it and the way it was presented I didnt like.. but after researching further I havent done anything about it.  
As far as Im concerned then it could perhaps be useful... say for eg I changed my mobile no... but forgot to tell a friend from a few years ago my new no.  
Using this service they could attempt to make contact... the service will tell me they are trying to make contact.
If I want to speak to them then I answer...  if I dont want to speak to them then I dont respond and said person doesnt get any info about me.

Theres an example call from this page
http://www.118800.co.uk/how-it-works.html




----------------
Secondly and more importantly.

How on earth have they got hold of this so called data in the first place... unless

(a)you have given out your mobile phone no to some other marketing type company or
(b) given your phone no out publically to some organisation that may have added you to the list (wouldnt that be a DPA matter?) or
(c) Your mobile phone company has breached the DPA

.... then surely its unlikely that they could have your number?



I'm also a bit dubious about adding my no to the opt out list anyhow... because from some el-reg comments.. there seems to be a fair amount of 'not founds' and 'more info needed'.

• Ive just done a search on my myself which comes up with the results "We have more than one person who matches your enquiry"....  hmm doubtful but not impossible.  
• Being a bit suspicious about this... I entered in someones name whose is a bit more unusual.. and I'm 99.999% certain is the only person with that name in this town.
• I also did a search on someone who has had the same mobile no for about 5+ years - name isnt particularly common either.

Guess what the result came back as for all of them?

So No I am not going to give them any info either by filling in their questions further..  
nor adding to their opt out list which only goes to show that a number is active.

They obviously dont appear to hold any info on me already (despite being with the same mobile co for gawd knows how many years)... 
I could be wrong, but I think its unlikely that any mobile co is going to have released their customer base details.



---------------

IMHO best leaving well alone and only opt out if and when you are ever contacted by someone via them...
and I'll stand by my opinion that entering anything into the site or opting out only gives them that little bit more info than they have already.

[kitz]

Further to my above comments just found this

How did you get the mobile numbers?

Our mobile phone directory is made up from various sources. Generally it comes from companies who collect mobile telephone numbers from customers in the course of doing business and have been given permission by the customers to share those numbers.

Could a child’s mobile be in your directory?

Our policy is not to include anyone in the directory who isn’t 18 years of age. However where a parent has given their mobile phone to a child to use, we are unable to identify this unless the parent informs us.

So as suspected above unless you have already given permission to some other (marketing type) company to share your details, then its highly unlikely they will have your details anyhow.

By opting out you could in fact be giving them info that they didnt already have and at least proving that a certain phone no is actively used.

Best ignoring that email - its either scaremongering... or at worst a very clever marketing ploy to give that company a list of phone nos.

------------------
If you wish to opt out -  far better registering with TPS which is free.
The TPS can accept the registration of mobile telephone numbers

http://www.mpsonline.org.uk/tps/

[Peter]

Thank you everyone for input, I have now been told that Matrin's Money Tips had the following method of removing your number,

"Text  E to 118800"

I have used this method rather than let anyone else have my number.

Peter

[sevenlayermuddle]

I've been having a play with this service.  If I ask for something obviously ambiguous like 'John Smith' in a large town it suggests its found several matches, and invites me to 'narrow it down' by giving more info.   That sounds reasonable so far.

It draws a blank on my own name and small village (population c400), 'not able to identify'.  Reassuring!

I then tried it on a neighbour in the same small village, that I knew for sure to be unique. This time it says 'we think we've found them' - implying a unique match.  But before going any further, it still asks me to supply more details, like house number & street name.  Now, being a lifelong cynic, how do I know that by supplying that extra info, I'm not just filling in the blanks in their database?  So I didn't go any further.

[jid]

The link mentioned by Peter was the one I used via the 118800 website.

Enter your number and texts you a code to confirm your identity...Easy

[kitz]

But before going any further, it still asks me to supply more details, like house number & street name.  Now, being a lifelong cynic, how do I know that by supplying that extra info, I'm not just filling in the blanks in their database?

....  and that is exactly one of the concerns raised in my earlier post.
Lots of nice publicity about opting out... lots of people searching their database inputting names, towns and addresses.

I repeat that unless some marketing co already has your phone no via some other opt in... or unless who you bought your phone from has breached the DPA, then there's little chance that they have your phone no.

>> Enter your number and texts you a code to confirm your identity...Easy

Indeed it is..  and confirms to them that it is a valid phone no that they can add to their DB.
The more I think about this, the weirder it seems to get and Ive become completely cynical about the whole set up.  This seems like a nice exercise in gathering what data they can about mobile phones, names and addresses.

Why not just opt out via TPS which is free and at least is a known authority and carries more weight.

Even if for some reason you have managed to find your no on their database... you can still reject the call from anyone you dont want to speak to.. that other person still never gets your phone no....  and then and only then opt out.

[sevenlayermuddle]

Indeed it is..  and confirms to them that it is a valid phone no that they can add to their DB.
The more I think about this, the weirder it seems to get and Ive become completely cynical about the whole set up.  This seems like a nice exercise in gathering what data they can about mobile phones, names and addresses.

If you're right (and I think you are) then one way to scupper their business model is to follow their own 'opt-out' instructions with fake details, so their database is completely useless.  It wouldn't be long before they run out of funds to pay their operators for calling the wrong people.    The only trouble is, the fake number you make up may actually belong to some poor soul 

More seriously, I'd follow kitz's suggestion...

Why not just opt out via TPS which is free and at least is a known authority and carries more weight.

Even if for some reason you have managed to find your no on their database... you can still reject the call from anyone you dont want to speak to.. that other person still never gets your phone no....  and then and only then opt out.

[oldfogy]

Now, being a lifelong cynic, how do I know that by supplying that extra info, I'm not just filling in the blanks in their database? 

My thoughts exactly.

**********
If I can just take this opportunity (whilst talking about phone numbers)

How to avoid having to enter your home phone number onto sites that ask for it.

I have recently been sourcing on-line car insurance quotes, but if you leave your home phone number blank it throws a wobbly until you put something in the box.
However, on one site it stated, if you do not have a home phone to put 01000000000 into the box.
So I also tried that on a couple of others which initially threw a wobbly and it then went through okay.
(Settled for the AA insurance and saved £185 on the car and £100 on house contents) 
So virtual drinks all around 

[sevenlayermuddle]

However, on one site it stated, if you do not have a home phone to put 01000000000 into the box. 
So I also tried that on a couple of others which initially threw a wobbly and it then went through okay.

Thanks OF, I'll remember that.  I've also found that simply omitting the last digit of my number seems to satisfy most online forms, and - same as 010000.....   there's no risk of accidentally coinciding with some other (valid) number.

[Peter]

Now that is very handy to know, ta, I found that some sites became upset because our phone number is only five digits, so I add a zero.
Peter

[kitz]

I just found this review from CNet which seems pretty sensible.
I admit I'm cherry picking a few points, but read it all yourself then feel free to make up your own mind...

118 800 answers privacy issues: 'We'll tell you where we got your data from'

The 15 million-strong database was gleaned from buying mailing lists

(From cnet)
We're going to stick our necks out here and say we're not bothered. We met with 118 800's marketing director Shona Forster, who outlined the extensive safeguards for our information, including the option to track where your data came from.

While we're not happy about our details being out there, we're not going to knock 118 800 over it. The fact is, our details are bought and sold by marketing shysters all the time.

As suspected because I dont see any other real source where they could have got this info from without some breach of the DPA.
If youre on some sort of marketing list and have already given your info to them, then this info could be sold to any 3rd party any how.

I'm afraid the emails and hype about cold-calling will in fact be just scaremongering. Its highly unlikely that marketing firms will shell out £1 plus per phone no to get this data from 118800 when such lists can be purchased for a minute portion of that anyhow.

Your number is not given out to people looking to contact you: the Web search will send you a text message with the contacter's name and number, while the phone service calls you, plays a recording of the contacter saying their name, and asks if you want to be connected. If you say no, the caller is politely told the call can't be connected

So if you dont want to accept the call or you dont know who its from.. then simply ignore it.
If you get one and/or it becomes a nuisance..  Then is the time to opt out.

Far better to register with TPS and then marketing companies arent supposed to call you.  
Registering with the TPS is far better and you can complain directly to the Information Commissioner's Office (ICO) who are the government body responsible for enforcing the regulations.

The use of marketing data was basically a necessary evil to make sure there were some people in the database at launch.

I do still have some reservations though about filling in any info on the site..  afterall its now clear where they got the data so far from..   they obviously have plans to expand the database.. so where is that new information going to come from?

[mr_chris]

> where is that new information going to come from?

There is also a "Join us" link on their website which allows you to fill in your details for the directory.

Their Privacy Policy is worth a read - it seems to cover a lot of the issues that have been raised in this thread.

Section 6 describes how they will collect information to expand their directory. I was quite pleased to read that "information about children (under 18 years of age) is automatically excluded from the service". So theoretically, children should not receive any contact at all from the company.

Section 8 explains about becoming ex-directory - and "The first time 118 800 contacts you please note that you will be sent an SMS reminding you about how to become ex-directory." - also good to read that.

The only bit I'm a little worried about is in Section 7 - "We will never use your information for direct marketing purposes except as set out in this Privacy Policy and will not disclose your information to any third parties, except to government bodies and law enforcement agencies, any successors in title to our business and suppliers that process data on our behalf.".

Why do they need to use suppliers to process information on their behalf? I'd like to see an expansion of that, listing exactly what kind of 'processing' they mean. There is also nothing in this privacy policy that prevents these "suppliers" from doing whatever they want with the data. I would be more reassured if it read something like 'selected 3rd party suppliers, for the sole purposes of processing data on our behalf' - again, I'm not a lawyer so I don't know the precise wording, but it looks like a loophole to me.

Or what if in the future, the company morphs into something completely different, they will inherit what may become the most complete database of UK mobile numbers outside of the mobile providers themselves.

Also note that they only talk about "becoming ex-directory" and not "deleting your details" - an important distinction.

It's basically down to whether you believe that the reasons behind the formation of the company are simply to become something of a 118118 but for mobile phone numbers, or whether they are also harvesting the data for some huge future project that would put them at an advantage to other companies.

I can't decide yet. The black helicopters are distracting my train of thought

[mr_chris]

Oops - somehow I missed kitz's post where she already found the privacy policy - that'll teach me to skim-read threads! Sorry about that