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[lummers]

Hello!

I'm completely ignorant about most networking topics.. so apologise for asking daft questions and using terms incorrectly. Thank you for patience and support!

I've temporarily moved into my parents home due to their health not being great. They live in rural Scotland. It's affecting my productivity at work as the internet cannot sustain a Zoom call without drops.

The first thing I wanted to try was to use a new router that we received as a gift and that's what started this off.

TL:DR - the internet connection sucks and I want to know what practical things I can do to improve. The down speed is 3Mbps and up speed is 0.8Mbps. Also, the connection seems to drop for odd minutes at a time before the wireless devices reconnect.

Current arrangement

• Master Socket 5C
• Pulse Z-400UK VDSL/ASDL Filter
• Default SSE router

Please see the attached image. The SSE router is connected into the filter via a patch lead ('modem' socket of the filter to the DSL socket on the router).

After looking behind the current Master Socket, I found what appears to be - after some laymans research - a set of very old wires. There are 10x in total coming in from externally (5x white and 1x of green, blue, brown, orange, grey). The blue and grey wires are going into the AB camlocks.

See here for img of the current wiring:
https://ibb.co/HqKkZnW
(in the bottom left of the picture, you can see the more modern wiring. This is an internal extension that was done to enable the telephone landline to be setup in a different room in the house)
 

Proposed arrangement

My thought process was that upgrading the Master Socket to the MK4 would have an in-built filter and allow the use of a WAN cable which would be preferrable than DSL.   

Would using the MK4 actually help anything in this case? If yes, how should it be wired as any guides are assuming a more modern set of wires.

At this point, I am out of my depth and would appreciate some ideas on what, if anything, can be done to improve the quality of the internet in the home.

Given where we live, we are not eligible for fibreoptic..

Thank you to any kind souls who can help.

[HPsauce]

Hmm, a bit confused, so like many others here I'll probably ask lots of questions to clarify.

Firstly, to see what your line is up to, and if it can be improved, some router stats would help. Does that mean anything to you?

Secondly a phone line is normally just two wires into the back of the master socket, which in your case seems to feed the router via a normal filter (your "modem").
Though with most master sockets you shouldn't need a filter for the broadband connection, just connect to the correct socket on the faceplate. 
Is there anything actually "live and working" from all that extra spaghetti? If not ignore it..... (and ideally bin it!)

Thirdly why aren't you using the NTE5C faceplate?

[Weaver]

I’m in Skye and have ultra long copper ADSL2 lines.

Did you say what type of internet connection you have? Is ADSL 2+ or FTTC which is copper to the green cabinet near by and then fibre to an exchange. Sometimes mis-advertised as ‘fibre’ when it isn’t, it’s just the same old copper line into your house but with FTTC (‘Fibre To The Cabinet’) the copper is greatly shortened.

[lummers]

Hi Weaver & HPsauce - thanks for the replies!

Router Stats:
Technicolor TG589vac V2
DSL Type: ADSL_2plus
DSL Mode: Fast
Line Rate: Up: 1.2 Mbps, Down: 4.54 Mbps
Output Power: Up:  12.7 dBm, Down: 0 dBm
Line Attenuation: Up: 20.5 dB, Down: 37.5 dB
Noise Margin: 6.5 dB, Down: 29.6 dB

a phone line is normally just two wires into the back of the master socket, which in your case seems to feed the router via a normal filter (your "modem").

That's right. There are two wires going into the back of the master socket. In this case, it's a BLUE and GREY wire going into the A and B slots respectively. The current master socket is an old style and only has one port. In this port goes the filter, to which the phone and the router are connected.

just connect to the correct socket on the faceplate.

The current faceplate only has a single port. My parents still use their landline phone.

Is there anything actually "live and working" from all that extra spaghetti?

I have no idea about where its actually live or not! Of the 10 wires coming into the house:
BLUE and GREY are being used for the phone line.
ORANGE AND WHITE are being used to junction for an internal extension
The remaining wires (6x: GREEN, BROWN and 4x WHITE) are just there in the box and not being used.

Thirdly why aren't you using the NTE5C faceplate?

I'm not familiar of the history my parents have had with BT over the years, unfortunately. I thought what we are using today is a NTE5C.

This is the faceplate that is currently in use:
https://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/bt-line-boxes-and-sockets/nte5cmastersocket/?search=master%20socket%205c

This is the faceplate that I bought and not-yet installed:
https://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/adsl-vdsl-faceplates/mk4btopenreachvdslsocket/

I haven't installed the MK4 yet as I'm not sure on the arrangement. My best guess at this point is we use the same AB wires currently in use (obviously) - but I don't know if I should use any additional wires in the MK4 in the 5/3/2 slots or simply stick with just 2 wires.

Did you say what type of internet connection you have?

I'm not sure. If there's a diagnostic I can do - either on router, at the wall socket, or at the cabinet out on the road - please do let me know. My understanding is there is no Fibre where we live, so I'd *guess* ADSL.

[g3uiss]

Have you tried this to see what’s available?

https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com

[meritez]

https://bidb.uk/

anything turn up if you check on the above?
Your upload sync at 1.2 is the best you will see on an ADSL2+ annex A connection.

[g3uiss]

But you “should” be able to do better than 4.5 down.

[parkdale]

Do you have more than one phone line into the house?

[HPsauce]

That faceplate is fine. I thought you meant an LJU4 master socket! 
Odd that BT didn't supply a suitable broadband faceplate with the NTE5C though......

Your attenuation (from router stats) suggests your line is about 2.75km long, they're rarely direct, is that sensible given your exchange location?
That would then suggest a speed around 10mbps is achievable, not the 4.5mbps you have.
Your downstream noise margin is HUGE at 29.6dB suggesting interference, it should be about 6. That's why it's so slow!

I'd start by installing the faceplate (no need for filter then) and ensuring the extension wiring is run from the correct terminals.
And once that's all done try rebooting the router with the extension disconnected and post the stats here.

[Weaver]

I don’t understand the ‘noise margin’ (ie signal to noise ratio margin or SNRM) figures given. Does that mean 6.5 dB upstream and 29.6 downstream ?

The downstream figure is huge if we’re reading it correctly, and that would explain why the downstream speed is so slow. It means that the modem in the exchange is adding way too much mathematical error correction information or being way too conservative or both when it sends stuff to you. There are various ways of fixing this. We need a good modem and a good ISP who understands the issues.

Something called an "SNR reset" (downstream) will reset this figure back to normal which should be 6 dB downstream. That will make it spectacularly faster unless for some reason the ISP is limiting the soeed but that doesn’t look likely in this case.

[burakkucat]

Hello!

I'm completely ignorant about most networking topics.. so apologise for asking daft questions and using terms incorrectly. Thank you for patience and support!

Welcome to the Kitz forum. 

See here for img of the current wiring:
https://ibb.co/HqKkZnW

I am somewhat puzzled by what can be seen in the above image. The thick, black, cable (held onto the skirting board with two cable cleats) will be the incoming service feed (or lead-in). It contains five twisted pairs, each pair consists of one wire with a solid colour insulation and one wire with white insulation. The five twisted pairs are know by their solid colour insulation and are, in order of their usage, --

• blue
• orange
• green
• brown
• slate (or grey)

Within the black sheath each coloured wire is twisted with its own dedicated white wire. They must not be "mixed or muddled".

Unfortunately, over time, the five twisted pairs have become untwisted. That is the first big mistake. (How is anyone to know which white wire goes with each coloured wire to make up a pair?)

The second big mistake is that the blue and grey wires are used to connect to the NTE5C. That results in "split legs" and a massive loss of AC balance for the circuit which, probably, is the source of the poor performance. The blue pair (that is the solid blue coloured wire and its white counterpart) should have been used to make the connection.

Something else must also be "going on", as the orange pair from the service feed (or lead-in) is then connected to the green pair of a more recent cable whose purpose is completely opaque.

I can only assume that many years ago, long before a broadband Internet service had been provided (or even existed!), there was a fault in that (thick black) cable which resulted in the loss of the telephony service. Back in the day, the engineer who fixed the fault probably just chose any one of the other free wires to make a (non-twisted pair) to restore the telephony service. If, as I suspect, it was just the blue pair that was in use - and faulty - the telephony service should have been swapped over to use the orange pair.

The final mystery is why a five pair service feed (or lead-in) was initially installed. I can only just speculate . . . 

[parkdale]

Does the OP have another master socket somewhere... otherwise the pair connecting to the phone extension comes straight from the (5 pair) thick black cable bundle? Hence my question about a 2nd line to property.

[HPsauce]

The observations by @burakkucat are interesting indeed. I hadn't spotted all that in the image!
An "extension" phone has been mentioned, we need an explanation of how that is wired in. If it's via that green pair in the 6-core cable that's VERY weird!
One step at a time........

And does @lummers know where the black 10-core cable comes from and have access?

[HPsauce]

Welcome to the Kitz forum. 
The second big mistake is that the blue and grey wires are used to connect to the NTE5C. That results in "split legs" and a massive loss of AC balance for the circuit which, probably, is the source of the poor performance. The blue pair (that is the solid blue coloured wire and its white counterpart) should have been used to make the connection.

I have had on my line, admittedly a bit shorter, broadband still working with one leg totally broken! Obviously it was a lot slower than normal.
So it's even plausible that it "should" be on the blue pair and has somehow been wired incorrectly? Access to the other end of the black cable will definitely required in due course.

[burakkucat]

When convenient, please take a picture of the inside of the extension socket (that is at the end of the newer cable) so we can see if there are any installed components and exactly how the green pair are connected. Sight of that image should answer parkdale's query and might help us to gain a better understanding of the current situation.