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[Alex Atkin UK]

well it looks like Zen has thrown their hat in the ring for nationwide coverage as well now

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2021/11/zen-internet-set-to-extend-cityfibre-fttp-availability-nationwide.html

Was expected, I was counting on it in fact.  The plan for me is tol get Openreach FTTP as its likely to come first and switch to CityFibre for symmetrical once its available.

Only question is how long before they press the button, as is a lot of reports of people waiting over 6 months, or even over a year now after works are carried out.

Likely the silicon shortage as mentioned in another thread by Black Sheep.  Lay the fibre now, light it once the supporting hardware is available.

[chenks]

it's still not live for me, the digging was done in september.

ironically the BT exchange is 100 yards up the street from me.

[chenks]

well the network now appears to be live

city fibre give me 3 suppliers

Vodfaone
Zen
Braw Band

none of those 3 appear to be offering symmetrical speeds sadly (or if they do they don't advertise the fact).
zen advertise 900/100, brawband don't mention an upload speed at all during the "check what services you can get" process, and vodafone i wouldn't touch with a barge pole (but only appear to offer 80Mbps package)

[meritez]

Are fibrehop available for you?

[chenks]

City fibre only lists those 3 as being available

[jelv]

Zen over Cityfibre is symmetrical - here's why it can't be advertised as such:

https://forums.thinkbroadband.com/zen/t/4703085-zen-over-cityfibre.html

[j0hn]

Zen only do symmetrical over CityFibre.

Zen are signed up to the OFCOM speed code of practice and do not yet have sufficient proof of the higher upload speeds on CityFibre to be able to advertise them so must continue to advertise them as the same speeds as over Openreach.

ajays (Senior Product Manager - Broadband) is a Zen staff member registered on ThinkBroadband and confirmed this just over a month ago.

Hi John, thanks for reaching out.

This is all linked to our obligations as a signatory of Ofcom's speeds code of practice.

Ofcom require Zen to advertise speeds based on the results of speeds tests run under a set of defined principles.

Along with TalkTalk, Zen are the only signatories using City Fibre's network.

Before we're allowed to advertise the increased upload speeds we need to connect and measure the speeds from a panel of test customers. The panel needs to be sufficiently large that it is statistically representative for each of the different speed packages we offer and so that it takes into account any differences between cities.

Our CPE doesn't have an Ofcom approved speed testing service built in, so we use SamKnows white boxes to gather the evidence we need to provide to Ofcom.

In the meantime the speed test data we have is based on Openreach FTTP. Hence the speeds you see on our website and that our sales teams are obliged to provide.

So, in summary, customer's upload speeds are not capped at the Openreach profile rates. But until we have the appropriate evidence to back clams of higher upload speeds, we are continuing to advertise a single set of profiles across both networks. Better to under promise and over deliver than the other way around.

I hope that all makes sense. And believe me it's quite frustrating that we can not shout about the higher upload speeds in the way we'd like to.

Best regards,

Andrew

Edit: jelv beat me to it

[Chrysalis]

Yeah they are same speed both directions, but I personally wouldnt order without written confirmation thats the package, otherwise there is no leverage in case of upload speed problems.

[Alex Atkin UK]

Definitely an awkward scenario as Zen are doing the right thing by not over-promising but the rules they are following are flawed.

This is an inherent problem with the networks offering symmetrical though as if they are only using GPON the average upload speed is going vary wildly depending on if more than one heavy user is on that PON, seeing as it only takes two to max out the upstream (though probably unlikely for very long so the average should still be high).

[chenks]

yeah i probably wouldn't consider Zen until they sorted out their ability to advertise it.

however, there is 1 big obstacle, in that the cityfibre crew decided to place the "t-point" on the pavement in a place totally inappropriate for where the entry to the house actually would be.
the t-point is at the "front" of the house (as in the side of the house that faces the pavement), but that is actually the back of the house (kitchen and downstairs bathroom faces the pavement).
and the fact they would almost certainly have to dig a trench to get the fibre from the pavement into the property and then have to route it externally to the point where it would actually enter.

the disruption probably outweighs considering the service.

the virgin location, by comparison, is actually nearer where it would actually enter the property.

[AnthonyG]

well the network now appears to be live

city fibre give me 3 suppliers

Vodfaone
Zen
Braw Band

none of those 3 appear to be offering symmetrical speeds sadly (or if they do they don't advertise the fact).

I am surprised TalkTalk is not showing as available as they seem to be the first ones in for new builds in the North East. I am getting symmetrical with them. Although I signed up for 500 down and 75 up. I was expecting them to change it but been with them for 3 months and its remained the same

TalkTalk also offer their FTTP over DHCP (as opposed to PPPOE most others use). Therefore you can use PFsense with a low powered quad core and get full speed from it.

[AnthonyG]

it's still not live for me, the digging was done in september.

ironically the BT exchange is 100 yards up the street from me.

If it means anything to gauge from. They dug up my street the last week of May. It literally went live Christmas Eve which I ordered straight away that same day. And TalkTalk installed it on the 7th January.

When I was on the phone with them in this meantime checking as Zen had multiple live dates that all came and went they were saying its about a 6 months lead time from digging up the street to going live, and for me it was 7 months.

[chenks]

yeah i probably wouldn't consider Zen until they sorted out their ability to advertise it.

well it seems even after a year Zen still can't advertise the product as fully symmetrical when using the cityfibre network.

however, are Zen still considered to be one of the better "smaller" ISPs?
they are currently offering "full fibre 900" for £40pm but can still only advertise it as

Estimated Download
900Mbpsestimated download

Estimated Upload
100Mbpsestimated upload

Minimum Guaranteed Download
450Mbpsminimum guaranteed download

looking at trustpilot (which definitely should be taken with a pinch of salt), they mostly get good reviews, but the odd 1 and 2 star review suggests that when things go fine there isn't a problem but on the off occasion there is a problem it can sometimes go quite badly

[jaydub]

however, are Zen still considered to be one of the better "smaller" ISPs?

looking at trustpilot (which definitely should be taken with a pinch of salt), they mostly get good reviews, but the odd 1 and 2 star review suggests that when things go fine there isn't a problem but on the off occasion there is a problem it can sometimes go quite badly

Have a look at their ISPReview ratings, which I would argue come from a more discerning part of the market than Trustpilot.  It was enough to put me off, although I am with IDNet on FTTP over a ZenW connection, so didn't manage to avoid them entirely.  Having said that my FTTP 80/20 is absolutely rock solid.

Also check put there reviews on the main site here, although that is just score based.

[chenks]

Have a look at their ISPReview ratings, which I would argue come from a more discerning part of the market than Trustpilot.  It was enough to put me off, although I am with IDNet on FTTP over a ZenW connection, so didn't manage to avoid them entirely.  Having said that my FTTP 80/20 is absolutely rock solid.

Also check put there reviews on the main site here, although that is just score based.

looking at ispreview it looks like their once good customer service has taken a nose dive and is now quite poor.
IDnet are not an option on the cityfibre network for me

Vodafone
TalkTalk
Giganet
Zen
Brawband
Brillband

the first 2 i wouldn't touch with a barge pole.
i know nothing about giganet.
and brawband and brillband seem to be those ISPs that pop up with zero history and most likely just re-selling someone elses product.