Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Alex Atkin UK]

[Moderator note: This post, and those that follow on, have been split from CarlT's "Openreach Huawei 4 port ONT module" topic.]

On a related note, do they still fit the battery backup, at least if you request the engineer to do so?

[PhilipD]

Hi

I had FTTP installed just before Christmas and no sign of a backup battery being offered.  I got the smaller Huawei installed and I don't think that even has the monitoring backup socket to connect to the BBU.  So the engineer would need the older style ONT plus the backup units to provide that.

It didn't worry me as the power socket for the ONT I was easily able to feed from a UPS, which also keeps the router, VoIP phone and Wi-Fi powered in a power cut so the network remains up as normal.

I can understand why they have dropped supplying them as standard, as for most people they are of little use as they will not have any other bits of kit on a UPS, so if the power goes they have no Internet anyway, and few people are using the in-built telephone port.

Regards

Phil

[Alex Atkin UK]

That's annoying, as I have a UPS for my NAS but it doesn't last very long.  A DC UPS should run for much much longer due to not conversion losses.

I also have a cheap 12V UPS from Amazon which doesn't seem to hold a charge.  So I was really hoping for something actually purpose designed for the task.

To be fair its not essential (as the router isn't even currently on one and the core switch is on the other that wont last long), but it would be nice to have.

[Weaver]

I am going on a campaign of increasing UPS deployment and runtime. I am using Li-ion 12V UPSs instead of the supplied 12V D.C power bricks that came with my WAPs, so now each WAP is independently UPSed and without the inefficiency of having to generate 240V AC mains only to then immediately throw it away down-converting to 12V DC

[PhilipD]

Hi

I am going on a campaign of increasing UPS deployment and runtime. I am using Li-ion 12V UPSs instead of the supplied 12V D.C power bricks that came with my WAPs, so now each WAP is independently UPSed and without the inefficiency if having to generate 240V AC mains only to then immediately throw it away down-converting to 12V DC

You still get similar loses just in the opposite direction, as 4.5 volts from the lithium battery needs to be boosted up to 12 volts.  Efficiency isn't the deciding factor on a UPS but reliability, safety and run-time, it matters little if it is 95% efficient or 60% efficient for the odd time it's needed.

Also I wouldn't trust those plugged in all the time, lithium batteries can explode and catch fire, especially ones in devices that probably don't have proper CE approval, also the lithium cell will have lost around 50% of its capacity after a couple of years if not sooner even if never used just being sat in the adaptor constantly warm and constantly being topped up, which is something lithium cells are not designed for and hate, and they are non-replaceable, so just throw the whole thing away after a couple of years!  Also you have no idea on the quality of the switch mode power supply in that adaptor, I doubt it is anywhere near as efficient or safe as the original one supplied with the equipment, and I suspect your equipment is more at risk of damage from the mains than it would be on the supplied adaptor.

There is a reason that lead acid batteries are used in standby equipment like UPS, they are safe and reliable.

Don't forget a proper UPS will protect the equipment against dangerous surges and over voltages by disconnecting the equipment from the mains immediately the mains goes 'out of spec', that will not be happening in those adaptors.

If thought about and planned it isn't too difficult to get a single UPS to power all the necessary equipment.  Mine powers my main computer, a VoIP phone, router, switch, ONT.  I've had power cuts whilst working away and only known about it because I've heard the UPS fire itself up and start beeping at me. 

Regards

Phil

[Alex Atkin UK]

Don't forget a proper UPS will protect the equipment against dangerous surges and over voltages by disconnecting the equipment from the mains immediately the mains goes 'out of spec', that will not be happening in those adaptors.

If thought about and planned it isn't too difficult to get a single UPS to power all the necessary equipment.  Mine powers my main computer, a VoIP phone, router, switch, ONT.  I've had power cuts whilst working away and only known about it because I've heard the UPS fire itself up and start beeping at me. 

Regards

Phil

You say that but the one I'm using now doesn't seem to know what "spec" means as when it kicks in, it tends to output 215V and I've seen it kick in at voltages still in-spec, so it actually caused it to be out-of-spec on those occasions. 

Reading reviews, it seems all the low-end SOHO kit is garbage and I simply don't have anywhere to physically locate a bigger unit, even if the cost wasn't prohibitive.

I was originally going to have one for the core switch, NAS, my desktop (adds too much of a load sadly when gaming) and one on the modems/router.  I gave up on the latter after reading reviews that suggested anything I had space for sucked.

I have the Li-Ion 12V unit on some 12V LED strips I have that light the porch and hallway as the importance there IS run time, but as I expected Li-Ion just isnt suitable.  Its not maintaining a charge at all.

[PhilipD]

Hi

You say that but the one I'm using now doesn't seem to know what "spec" means as when it kicks in, it tends to output 215V and I've seen it kick in at voltages still in-spec, so it actually caused it to be out-of-spec on those occasions.

It depends of course on the quality of the UPS, I've stuck with APC. 

Now don't be to hard on the one you have    The lower voltage reading is probably just down to how your device/multi meter is measuring the output voltage, and what you are seeing are errors caused by measuring a square wave output as an AC sign wave. Multi-meters can't really give you a true AC value with the type of output from a running UPS https://www.se.com/ww/en/faqs/FA157483/

A good UPS will be reacting to things quicker that you can measure and see with most test equipment, for example a sudden dip in voltage lasting just a 50th of a second will trip it over, where it will stay for a second or so until everything appears stable.

Regards

Phil

[Alex Atkin UK]

Hi

It depends of course on the quality of the UPS, I've stuck with APC. 

Now don't be to hard on the one you have    The lower voltage reading is probably just down to how your device/multi meter is measuring the output voltage, and what you are seeing are errors caused by measuring a square wave output as an AC sign wave. Multi-meters can't really give you a true AC value with the type of output from a running UPS https://www.se.com/ww/en/faqs/FA157483/

A good UPS will be reacting to things quicker that you can measure and see with most test equipment, for example a sudden dip in voltage lasting just a 50th of a second will trip it over, where it will stay for a second or so until everything appears stable.

Regards

Phil

Its supposedly a pure sine wave model and the voltage is the readout on the UPS itself as well as reported over the USB port.

I avoided square wave as I had a bad experience with them before, plus they seem to be noisier (makes sense) and potentially harder on the PSUs plugged into them.

It is curious as I saw it kicking in on voltages that seemed in-spec, I wonder what it detected to cause that.  Since I added UPS monitoring to my home page, it doesn't seem to have kicked in at all, typical.

I was looking at APC but saw a lot of negative reviews about their affordable models.

[PhilipD]

Hi

If that is the true voltage then it is still in specification more or less.  The UK rules are 230 volt but it can be lower by up to 6%, which is 216 volts minimum.  Power suppliers for IT equipment really wouldn't care about the difference, often being able to run on anything from 50/60Hz at 100 volts upwards.

I've used the more consumer types of APC UPS for many years and never had any issues, it's a stepped approximation sine wave they output which is perfectly fine for IT equipment.

A good UPS isn't just looking at voltage, it will be looking at noise and changes to the frequency, and kicking in as soon as it detects a potential problem, most problems would come and go quicker than could be seen or noticed, and wouldn't have needed the UPS to have kicked in anyway, it's just detecting anything that might indicate something worse might be about to happen so it reacts sooner rather than later.

Regards

Phil

[Alex Atkin UK]

Its technically out of spec though as you point out, 216.2 is the minimum and it was reporting 215.  Considering the whole point of a UPS is to keep the voltage within spec, the fact its not going to cause any issues is somewhat irrelevant.

I think its out of spec at the upper end too, pretty sure I've seen it NOT kick in when the mains is at at 255v and it should kick in at 253.

[PhilipD]

Hi

Well it all depends on how accurately it is measuring it's own voltage, plus it doesn't need to comply with the specifications anyway as it isn't feeding the national grid as it is just a back up power supply for your own IT equipment    In a power cut it is going to keep everything running just the same.  Also these aren't mains conditioning units, they are a UPS, so I wouldn't expect these types of UPS to switch exactly at the regulatory upper and lower ranges unless it says it is suppose to.

If you are concerned about it working correctly the answer would be to buy a better one of course or maybe seek a warranty replacement perhaps?

Note that in the UK our mains voltage is usually 240 - 250 volts (I get 247 volts here), it is only a 'nominal' 230 volt as that is what the EU wants to standardise at and use elsewhere.  The EU maximum/minimum regulatory range has been set in such a way it means our higher voltage complies, without the UK having to make any changes.  A UPS wouldn't want to switch at 253 volts as that could only be 3 volts above normal in some places in the UK and makes it way too sensitive, they are only designed to switch when voltages might damage equipment, not when it falls outside of a regulatory range by a few volts. 

What is your UPS?  Anyway it sounds fine and if it does it job okay then what more do we need.

Regards

Phil

[niemand]

Curious as to what the voltage serving my property is now.

I have a couple of paperclips - can anyone let me know how much 230 volts hurts versus 250?

[sevenlayermuddle]

Apols, previous post that repeated existing stuff deleted.

My own mains supply is currently sitting at 236V.

At times of peak demand, such as Christmas morning when nearly everybody has the ovens on, it often dips to less than 220V.   That’s below the legal limit when it was nominally 240V, and I do find my own oven then struggles and becomes my excuse for lunch being late.

If you want to keep an eye on it, easiest way is to get a plug in power meter/adapter.  I got mine from Maplin so can’t provide a link, but I think there are plenty about.

[niemand]

I'm not too worried being a city boy. Should be pretty solid. I'll know the voltage from the small UPS I'll put in place to protect a few key components 

[dee.jay]

Curious as to what the voltage serving my property is now.

I have a couple of paperclips - can anyone let me know how much 230 volts hurts versus 250?

You first