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[stevenj]

Hi,

Just learned that BT have changed Infinity 4 from 330/30 to 330/20. As an aside, I'd be keen to know if anyone who signed up on 330/30 has had their upload reduced to 20 or not, I'm guessing not and it's just new customers that are unlucky?

So, does anyone of other ISP's that are offering 330/30 for FTTP connections? I can't seem to see any reasonable ones that will offer a price. If BT can't do it now, who else can? Openreach have done the hard bit, seems BT Retail have taken away with the other hand...

Thanks

[burakkucat]

Just to clarify, the infrastructure product available to you is native FFTP?

What I would suggest is just talking to the people at Andrews & Arnold Ltd -- they are perfectly prepared to discuss things even with non-customers.

[stevenj]

Yep, proper native WBC FTTP.

Andrews and Arnold were less than helpful when I asked. Their reply was this...

Hi Steven,

Thanks for your email.

We only offer up to 80/20 services on FTTP.

If you are looking at Home::1 the base tariff is £40 for 100GB on the
80/20 service. Its an additional £10 for each additional 100GB purchased
pre-paid.

Please feel free to ask me any further questions you may have.

--

Sincerely

Michael Barrett (Sales Advisor)

Andrews & Arnold Ltd http://aa.net.uk
Tel: 03333 400222

[burakkucat]

Yep, proper native WBC FTTP.

Thank you for clarifying.

Andrews and Arnold were less than helpful when I asked. Their reply was this...
<snip>

How odd.    I am rather surprised. Perhaps a telephone call to the "Big Chief" (rather than a Sales Advisor) may be more fruitful?

[Weaver]

You can also chat to them on IRC, details on AA website where there is a web-based IRC service for those who don't have an IRC client set up. Can also tweet them @AAISP, which I do a lot.

And you can certainly always talk to the boss RevK, he's very approachable / contactable, no wall of minions surrounding him.

[stevenj]

Spoke to them on IRC, and they basically said they just don't want to sell it for business reasons. They could, but they won't, were their words. Most unhelpful.

So... who else can sell 300/30 to me then? *waves cash in the air*

[stevenj]

Can anyone here confirm if they are receiving the FTTP 300/30 service? BT are now denying they've ever offered 30Mb upload!!! I need an example to give to them as they're saying it's always been 20Mb upload!!   

[tommy45]

What is it with BT and upstream sync and throughput speed ?  what have they got against fast upload speed, ? Why only 30mbps  they could and should be offering 50mbps and upwards on FTTP like a certain other provider supplies

[stevenj]

should be offering 50mbps and upwards on FTTP like a certain other provider supplies

Which provider is that? Doe you mean on FTTP or do you mean Virgin?

[guest]

He's talking about FTTP supplied (by that I mean installed & run) by someone other than BT.

Hyperoptic, Sky & TalkTalk (just in York so far), Kingston Comms & Gigaclear are the obvious ones who spring to mind. Oh and B4rn obviously

[stevenj]

Ah I see, so basically non-openreach/WBC providers. I just can't find any others that will provide 300/30 on FTTP. The Wholesale product is there, it has a price, why not just sell it! Madness.

[guest]

Ah I see, so basically non-openreach/WBC providers. I just can't find any others that will provide 300/30 on FTTP. The Wholesale product is there, it has a price, why not just sell it! Madness.

Probably because the retail cost of such a product would be prohibitively high. I would imagine (haven't looked lately) that the backhaul costs across the BT network of running such a product without significant contention/limits would be fairly eye-watering. Doesn't matter to BT Retail obviously as its effectively free to them anyway.

[stevenj]

It's not really free to them. But like any other carrier they are entitled to negotiate a discount with their supplier which of course makes it viable. Openreach actually canvassed for investment and no others wanted to invest so understandable if they can't get a discount.

But in any case, the wholesale cost of a 330/30 circuit is £44 or £54 depending on EU data connectivity. Not really prohibitive if people want to pay it, and there's little overhead in offering the additional service these days, with the likes of WBC Managed around. When ther ISP's are still charging lots more for 80/20 then it's not that prohibitive. There's just not a lot of deman obviously as that's limited by the small rollout. But since it's a defacto infrastructure for many new build sites, it still needs product availability and there is still a market. Perhaps a gap you might say!

[guest]

It's not really free to them.

I beg to differ.

BT Retail & Openreach are part of the same company (in tax terms) - transferring money between Retail & Openreach is a near zero-cost exercise in profit terms to the main company. That's not the case for other ISPs and their pricing will reflect that.

Anyway that's my opinion on why nobody other than BT Retail offers more than 80/20 on FTTP. I could well be wrong but its rather strange that not even the niche ISPs want to know about it don't you think?

[stevenj]

A little strange yes, but understandable for some. But to be honest it wouldn't be a difficult task in canvassing all of the FTTP users and giving them an alternative that they don't have right now, people would jump at the chance to move from BT in many cases, especially if this forum is anything to go by! I have a funny feeling something is awry with the provisioning process that makes it unattractive rather than the costs.

It might make no difference to BT Group shareholders, but it certainly makes a difference to BTR and BTO. They each have to balance their own books and show the costings, especially given the scrutiny right now from the regulators.