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Author Topic: Bonded FTTC and options?  (Read 15241 times)

mrpops2ko

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Re: Bonded FTTC and options?
« Reply #30 on: October 01, 2015, 08:14:11 PM »

rizla - I don't think its that people are not understanding that he is saying. I think we are all singing from the same hymn sheet.

What is questioned is the need for such a costly solution. Do you really want to shell out 600 quid and A&A monthly prices for something that could be done at plusnet/BT/sky pricing levels - with no massive upfront cost?

Is it so imperative that a single IP be used, when solutions and workarounds have been industry standard for several decades now?

OP mentioned £150 somewhere as a potential max per month, if he really wanted to do the most crazy aggregation possible he could do that with 4-5 different providers if they average out at £35 each and have a much more resilient network with much higher throughput.

Very few scenarios exist that require massive single socket transfers that aren't able to be balanced, which is why I asked about his usage. Everything he mentioned is fine to go with the method i've stated and it'll make a much more robust / resilient network with much higher throughput than the A&A alternative.
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Weaver

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Re: Bonded FTTC and options?
« Reply #31 on: October 01, 2015, 08:44:44 PM »

Someone has just reminded me Ixel that the Firebricks sit at both ends of an AAISP connection for aggregation - thats how they aggregate it to a single IP address via two backhauls for others who really aren't getting this.
I suspect that's correct, Rizla. For downstream, there is a box in the A&A network that maps a single IPvx address to a bundle of pipes and weighted round-robins the traffic. My firebrick picks this all up and merges the outputs of the three pipes (so for example giving one triple-speed d/s TCP stream) pouting the whole lot onto the LAN. The weighting is informed by the speed reports that BT, say, give out as needed concerning each line.

 For upstream, my firebrick does the same in reverse, taking the stream of outgoing IP packets from a single LAN host and distributing them across the outbound pipes. For u/s, it needs to be told what the speeds of the different pipes u/s are. This is difficult as it could change, though luckily it doesn't. My three modems can give me their u/s speeds, which _do_ differ.

The bit about a firebrick at the AA end is informed supposition, based on the availability of high end Firebricks plus various comments made. The box, whatever it is, does all the same things my Firebrick does. Plus things like giving out a pcap, using data over PPP LCP optionally, I believe ISP-end firewalling is an option too for users in trouble,
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Dray

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Re: Bonded FTTC and options?
« Reply #32 on: October 01, 2015, 08:49:39 PM »

So what speeds do you get from your aggregated connection?
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Weaver

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Re: Bonded FTTC and options?
« Reply #33 on: October 01, 2015, 09:00:30 PM »

@Dray - downstream, from 3 x ~1.75 Mbps I get 5.10 - 5.4 Mbps total, depending on how it's measured. Some speed checkers report a lower figure, of 4.5 -4.8, but two testers consistently agree on the higher numbers.

Upstream, I get a total of 0.6 - 0.9 Mbps, depending on which speed checker is in use and the combined total seems to fluctuate a lot as TCP struggles to find its balance. It is highly likely that I've got the u/s numbers wrong as I am possibly not accounting for u/s overheads properly when I convert from (I believe) raw line sync speed to actual bits of total IP presumably including IP headers. I use a fudge factor of 0.88 for this (derived from =2000/2272, from BT speed rungs).
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Dray

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Re: Bonded FTTC and options?
« Reply #34 on: October 01, 2015, 09:30:31 PM »

I'm pretty sure that's not a bonded FTTC connection then.
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Weaver

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Re: Bonded FTTC and options?
« Reply #35 on: October 01, 2015, 10:17:34 PM »

Not FTTC, no chance. "ADSL 1" is all that's available round here. Still stuck in 2006! :-)
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Dray

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Re: Bonded FTTC and options?
« Reply #36 on: October 01, 2015, 10:34:41 PM »

Not like this then  ;D

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Chrysalis

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Re: Bonded FTTC and options?
« Reply #37 on: October 01, 2015, 10:36:31 PM »

also unless things have recently changed aaisp wont use talktalk backhaul on FTTC, its only on their adsl services.
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Weaver

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Re: Bonded FTTC and options?
« Reply #38 on: October 01, 2015, 10:46:17 PM »

@Chrysalis - yes, I believe you're correct. I don't think AA have access to a TT FTTC service, I've seen no mentions of such.
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Weaver

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Re: Bonded FTTC and options?
« Reply #39 on: October 01, 2015, 10:47:18 PM »

@Dray  - swine!!   ;D ;D ;D
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guest

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Re: Bonded FTTC and options?
« Reply #40 on: October 02, 2015, 11:56:26 AM »

@Chrysalis - yes, I believe you're correct. I don't think AA have access to a TT FTTC service, I've seen no mentions of such.

I guess TT don't wholesale their VDSL service then.
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Chrysalis

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Re: Bonded FTTC and options?
« Reply #41 on: October 02, 2015, 01:42:08 PM »

and sorry I said I would be gone for a month, been lurking and replied out of habit to help :p

But will stay out of the ECI thread.
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Chrysalis

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Re: Bonded FTTC and options?
« Reply #42 on: October 02, 2015, 01:42:42 PM »

@Chrysalis - yes, I believe you're correct. I don't think AA have access to a TT FTTC service, I've seen no mentions of such.

I guess TT don't wholesale their VDSL service then.

They do as pulse8 supply it.
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Weaver

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Re: Bonded FTTC and options?
« Reply #43 on: October 02, 2015, 04:00:14 PM »

I'm a bit surprised then (although I don't disbelieve you) because AA are very keen on the wholesale TalkTalk Business services. They switched over from using Be to using TalkTalk completely, and give customers the choice of BTW or TT lines but the default apart from FTTx is TT I believe. I have no such luck, as it is BT only here.
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Chrysalis

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Re: Bonded FTTC and options?
« Reply #44 on: October 02, 2015, 06:13:26 PM »

We can only speculate as to why they dont use talktalk for FTTC.  I agree it seems odd.

Pulse8 is even managing to be more competitive than AAISP on pricing as well.
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