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Author Topic: Radio transmissions knocking out ADSL2+  (Read 13051 times)

Octal

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Radio transmissions knocking out ADSL2+
« on: January 19, 2015, 09:34:45 PM »

I just wondered if there was any radio amateurs on here could answer a question please.

I understand ADSL2+ bandwidth extends from 140KHz to 2.2MHz. That presents me with a problem, because at the top end of that band sits the amateur band of 1.81MHz to 2MHz and if I transmit, even a very low power it kills my connection stone dead.

I can get around that for my own connection by fitting a low pass filter like this one, that reduces my speed from the present 16M down to about 12M which I could live with and continue to transmit, but this doesn't help everyone else in the district who I might also knock off line.

I have done quite a bit of filtering by placing ferrite clamp cores on the various ports on the router to make sure there is no common mode RF current is getting into the router and that hasn't cured the problem, apart from reducing the radiated noise emitted from the router which is a plus.

Many thanks

All the other bands work fine, I can transmit as much power as I need and it doesn't cause a problem.
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konrado5

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Re: Radio transmissions knocking out ADSL2+
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2015, 10:06:17 PM »

If you have one of Broadcom-based routers it should be possible to disable some ADSL2+ tones (400-483 disabling should be helpful).
Code: [Select]
adsl connection --tones 0-399,484-511Broadcom-based routers:
http://wiki.kitz.co.uk/index.php/BCM_routers

Best regards
konrado5
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Black Sheep

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Re: Radio transmissions knocking out ADSL2+
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2015, 10:08:39 PM »

Alas, that may only help the OP. The other EU's would still be affected.  :)
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Octal

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Re: Radio transmissions knocking out ADSL2+
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2015, 10:15:58 PM »

Unfortunately the router is a Technicolor TG582N from PlusNet.
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tickmike

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Re: Radio transmissions knocking out ADSL2+
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2015, 11:35:58 PM »

Welcome to the forum, I used to be a SWL  ;) mainly 160 mts.
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I have a set of 6 fixed IP's From  Eclipse  isp.BT ADSL2(G992.3) line>HG612 as a Modem, Bridge, WAN Not Bound to LAN1 or 2 + Also have FTTP (G.984) No One isp Fixed IP >Dual WAN pfSense (Hardware Firewall and routing).> Two WAN's, Ethernet LAN, DMZ LAN, Zyxel GS1100-24 Switch.

NewtronStar

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Re: Radio transmissions knocking out ADSL2+
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2015, 12:36:47 AM »

Thats the 160 meter band, I would be more interested in how many watts your transceiver is pumping out when the DSL cutts out as there is a legal limit as you should be aware of.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2015, 01:08:49 AM by NewtronStar »
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Octal

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Re: Radio transmissions knocking out ADSL2+
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2015, 07:56:57 AM »

Thats the 160 meter band, I would be more interested in how many watts your transceiver is pumping out when the DSL cutts out as there is a legal limit as you should be aware of.

tickmike, thank you for the welcome, yes, 160 is a great band, just wish I could use it.

It happens on power over 5 Watts, any more than that and the router gets knocked off.

I am fully aware of the limits, they are:
1.810-1.830MHz 400 Watts
1.850-2.000MHz 32 Watts

But it isn't the power that should be of concern, but the field strength.
Just for interest, the estimated power density for 32 Watts at a distance of 60 feet from the antenna to where the router is located is 0.0031 mW/cm2 based on the maximum permissible exposure of 100.005 mW/cm2 as recommended by the FCC in America and for 5 Watts the power density is 0.0005 mW/cm2, which to sum up the figures this is a tiny amount that is disrupting the router. I am surprised that they are allowed to get away with that.

At the moment I've got two choices, don't use that band, which I'm doing at the moment, or fit my filter and let BT puzzle it out. I know OFCOM won't be interested because I'm legally within my rights to use that band with as much power as I'm licensed for. They will be of the opinion that my transmissions are disturbing apparatus that should not be so susceptible to radio transmissions.

So, back to my original point, has any one else had this and who did you get around it, or is there anything else worth trying?

Many thanks once again for the interest.
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JGO

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Re: Radio transmissions knocking out ADSL2+
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2015, 08:49:13 AM »

So, back to my original point, has any one else had this and who did you get around it, or is there anything else worth trying?

YES - the BT RF3 (and it's predecessors) were designed to keep RF out of telephones.
See my earlier postings for details but basically it attenuates common mode interference currents some 30 dB but with slight attenuation to differential mode signal (? 0.25 dB).  You may have met the "Braid Breaker" to do a similar job on TV coax.


 
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: Radio transmissions knocking out ADSL2+
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2015, 09:30:23 AM »

Stating the obvious I suspect, but since I don't think it's been mentioned yet...

...I assume you have carried out all possible internal wiring optimisations and in particular isolated the bell wire, either by removing it or fitting a filtered faceplate?
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JGO

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Re: Radio transmissions knocking out ADSL2+
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2015, 10:12:24 AM »

Good point  sevenlayermuddle, although at 160 metres it would need to be a long extension bell wire !   
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tickmike

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Re: Radio transmissions knocking out ADSL2+
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2015, 12:28:24 PM »

Hope I have not confused things by saying I used to Listen on 160 metre band  :-[ I do not think 'Octal' is transmitting on that ! ?. :hmm:
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I have a set of 6 fixed IP's From  Eclipse  isp.BT ADSL2(G992.3) line>HG612 as a Modem, Bridge, WAN Not Bound to LAN1 or 2 + Also have FTTP (G.984) No One isp Fixed IP >Dual WAN pfSense (Hardware Firewall and routing).> Two WAN's, Ethernet LAN, DMZ LAN, Zyxel GS1100-24 Switch.

tonyappuk

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Re: Radio transmissions knocking out ADSL2+
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2015, 01:25:56 PM »

Tickmike
Have I missed something? Surely that's Octal's problem. He can't use 160 metres which is 1.8 megs because it interferes with the top end of ADSL+. Confused!!
Tony
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tbailey2

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Re: Radio transmissions knocking out ADSL2+
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2015, 01:29:57 PM »

Hope I have not confused things by saying I used to Listen on 160 metre band  :-[ I do not think 'Octal' is transmitting on that ! ?. :hmm:

Yes, he is  :) 160m or Top Band or 1.810-1.830MHz & 1.850-2.000MHz. I've still got my UK to Australia QSL card somewhere...

Tony (G3WPO)
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Tony
My Books!
Plusnet 80/20 - DSLstats - HG612/TG582n - ECI

boost

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Re: Radio transmissions knocking out ADSL2+
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2015, 01:31:08 PM »

Why is interference on a handful of upper tones knocking the entire connection out?
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JGO

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Re: Radio transmissions knocking out ADSL2+
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2015, 02:58:49 PM »

Why is interference on a handful of upper tones knocking the entire connection out?

Overload of the modem.
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