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[sheddyian]

Visiting a friend the other day, it was hard not to notice (and be annoyed by!) their internal telephone wiring.  One master socket, with a plug-in "hard wired" extension kit that BT used to sell which had been partly cut off (ie just a few meters of wire then nothing).  Into the plug from that kit was a two way adaptor, which had a microfilter hanging out of it but nothing plugged into it.  In the other socket was a very tatty flat telephone extension lead, easily 20 metres.

On the end of that was another 2 way adaptor, partly broken, which had a micro filter in it.  This fed the telephone and the router.  The other side of the 2 way adaptor had some ancient looking thing that I mistook for a late 1970's answer machine but turns out to be some sort of hands free speakerphone unit.  Lovely teak finish.

ADSL line synch speed was around 3,500 down and 600 up.

"Don't worry! I can sort this out, and you'll have a much faster broadband connection too" says I.

Moved the router to the hall so it's next to the master phone socket on a nice short lead.  Microfilter then feeds the rest of the mess of wiring to the phone and speaker thing.

Anticipation upon switching it all on again leads to.. huge disappointment as the line is now synching at around 3,600 - 100 up on previously.  The up speed has dropped very slightly (by about 10 I think).

Since this is all within margin of error, the net result of my wiring consolidation appears to be nothing at all.  (At least I hadn't made it any worse, I suppose).

I did also try it with all the phone wiring disconnected, and with a different filter, but got similar results.

Line checker estimates they should get around 5,000 there, so the 3,600 is a bit disappointing.

The connection seems reliable - when I arrived it had been in synch for 67 days.

One thing though - the modem is a Speedtouch - not sure which variety.  The web interface didn't seem to have much in the way of line stats to look at, I could find synch speed, uptime and total data transferred, but couldn't see attenuation, error seconds or anything else useful.  Is that a feature of these routers, or did I miss it?

Ian

[kitz]

They usually do, but without knowing which model its hard to say 

try the following for older models...
http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/frogstats.php#43

or...  if its something like a ST585 v7 then it can sometimes be easy to miss the "Details" link at the top RH corner

http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/frogstats.php#58

[Black Sheep]

" ..........with a plug-in "hard wired" extension kit that BT used to sell".
There's a million and one outlets that sell this type of extention kit. For info, in telephony terminology, 'Plug-in' and 'Hard-wired' are two completely separate types of installation. 'Plug-in' = a home bought piece of kit like what you describe. 'Hard wired' = the extention wiring is terminated within the actual socket, not via a moulded plug.

There may be a 'banded profile' applied to the circuit, which means until its removed you wouldn't get any faster connection anyway. This is a long shot but not unknown.

[HPsauce]

The connection seems reliable - when I arrived it had been in synch for 67 days.

And that might also give a clue, it could just be DLM in action has set a very high target SNRM or as noted above a banded profile.

Either way, what you've done can only be for the better. And if it's just DLM then it may improve over the next few days.

But stats from the router would confirm what the potential really is. 

[sheddyian]

They usually do, but without knowing which model its hard to say 

try the following for older models...
http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/frogstats.php#43

or...  if its something like a ST585 v7 then it can sometimes be easy to miss the "Details" link at the top RH corner

http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/frogstats.php#58

Thanks!  Turns out it's a Technicolor TG582n but I haven't been back yet to see if I can read the stats.

Ian

[sheddyian]

" ..........with a plug-in "hard wired" extension kit that BT used to sell".
There's a million and one outlets that sell this type of extention kit. For info, in telephony terminology, 'Plug-in' and 'Hard-wired' are two completely separate types of installation. 'Plug-in' = a home bought piece of kit like what you describe. 'Hard wired' = the extention wiring is terminated within the actual socket, not via a moulded plug.

Sorry, that was my clumsy way of trying to describe those kits where it's more than a trailing extension lead, it comes with nail-in clips to tack the wires to the wall, and there's a little pre-wired phone socket on the end that you can screw or stick to the wall, but that it's got a BT phone plug on the other end, not one that you wire into the master socket.

There may be a 'banded profile' applied to the circuit, which means until its removed you wouldn't get any faster connection anyway. This is a long shot but not unknown.

Ah, thanks.  If I can get some detailed line stats out of it I'll see if they look plausible, and suggest they speak to ISP.

Ian

[4candles]

Thanks!  Turns out it's a Technicolor TG582n but I haven't been back yet to see if I can read the stats.

http://192.168.1.254/cgi/b/dsl/dt/?be=0&l0=2&l1=0

should take you straight there.

[roseway]

You may be able to monitor it with DSLstats if it doesn't have firmware which locks out the telnet interface.

[renluop]

Mine's a 582N and I can get extensive stats.

[kitz]

Thanks!  Turns out it's a Technicolor TG582n but I haven't been back yet to see if I can read the stats.

Ian

TG582n line stats

The TG582n is one of the routers were it is very easy to miss the 'Details' link I mentioned at the top RH side of the page, unless you knew it was there. 
I wholly recommend Eric's  DSLstats with that particular router and can confirm it works well on that model

[sheddyian]

Thank you all.  It was all done on a whim and in a bit of a rush.  I will look more closely at the screen next time I'm up there 

Ian

[sheddyian]

Thanks for the link 4Candles & Kitz, I emailed it to friend and have got these stats back in response.

Code: [Select]

Uptime: 7 days, 23:41:44
 
DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.3
 
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 764 / 3,795
 
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB]: 103.51 / 866.84
 
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.8 / 0.0
 
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 29.4 / 48.5
 
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 12.0 / 12.0
 
System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----
 
Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / IFTN
 
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 8 / 0
 
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 1 / 0
 
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
 
Loss of Link (Remote): -
 
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 604 / 0
 
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 1,365 / 138,272
 
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 152 / 1,362
 
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 86 / 8,854


I notice :

The uptime corresponds to when I was last there, ie it hasn't been rebooted or resynched since.

For the given attenuation, the Kitz Kalculator[tm] reckons the speed should be 5984, not the current 3795.  (3795 was repeatable, over 3 reboots I got similar but not identical speeds).

There seem to be a lot of errors?

What does the team think?

Ian

[HPsauce]

it could just be DLM in action has set a very high target SNRM

Which is what it looks like at first glance; 12dB rather than a standard 6dB.
Wait...................... and wait.................... 

[kitz]

Agree with HP, it looks like a 12dB target SNRm which is now restricting the sync speed. 

6dB more than the default Target is going to be costing that line around 2Mbps...  which in turn will bring it more in line with the adsl speed calculator.  Each 3dB of Target Noise Margin is worth up to 1200kbps of speed depending on the lines bitloading.

If the line is now holding sync, then its likely that you have improved the line quality by what you did, but now its just being held back by the DLM.   Repeating what HP said if its a BTw based ISP then its a waiting game, but if its an LLU provider then the EU may have to contact them.

Re errors, considering that line has been up for nearly 8 days when the line stats where taken, I wouldnt say that the errors are really bad.  Unfortunately though we dont know if its just one noise burst or if they are creeping up slowly. 

 
You can generally ignore the FEC's.  I notice a LoS and LoF on the upstream, but since these totals arent always reset and theres 0 on the downstream, Im going to ignore them for now.   
Im also a bit wondering about the upstream ErrSecs but that doesnt seem to be in line with the HEC and CRC so also possibly not reset?  Id need to see a few stats before making more judgement on those.

[sheddyian]

Thanks!

May well wait and see what happens, I'm not up there all that often.

It's annoying that I couldn't find the link for those detailed stats, or I would have a set of before / after to look at and compare.

If it doesn't bumps itself, when I'm next visiting I might put it back as it was (only take a few mins) and see what the stats are out of curiosity 

ISP is (I think) Utility Warehouse, of whom I know nothing.

I pondered over the Los and LoF that you noticed, then realised (after I'd posted) what had caused it - me!     After my disappointment of not seeing higher speeds, and after several adjustments of wires and reboots, I finished by swapping the microfilter for a different one, but didn't reboot the router - just unplugged it from the line and let it resynch   

Ian