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[Mick]

Hi All,

Over a period of a couple of months my 20CN broadband started disconnecting at random and the ocurrences got worse over time.

Over the last couple of weeks there was noticable crackle on the line during phone calls.  About the time the crackle started some people in the village complained that their lines were completely down (no dial tone) and that BT was coming in last week to fix the problem at the exchange (Cholesbury).

Four days hence and the broadband interruption continues, while to make matters worse, since last night there is a high pitch noise on the line.  The pitch happens not when I pick up the phone, but after I start dialling a number, or when receive a call.  The caller can hear us in a very distorted manner, but we can't hear anything through the high pitch noise.

I called BT from work and after going through an online test of the home line I was told by a very polite automated voice that there is nothing wrong with the line and if I want an engineer I will have to pay £99 for a visit ...

Given that 3 more households in the vilage have the same symptoms since last night, what is the best way to go about it (and ideally avoid a house visit if possible)?

[snadge]

hmm do BT have automated line testing now?  I wonder how thorough that is?  I would call them up and get a rep to perform a line test as it definitely sounds like a fault, explain everything youve just said about current ongoing issues at exchange and other neighbours experiencing problems

sorry i cant be of much more help, im sure someone else will help tell you what the problem could be - obviously if you can hear crackling and high pitched noises then theres definitely a line fault.

[burakkucat]

I would recommend using the (on-line) BT Line Checker to report a telephony fault.

[Mick]

Thank you both.  I have so far performed 4 copper line tests.  One using the automated telephone support bot, one using burakkucat's recommended URL, one by the kind Indian person on the BT online IM helpline, and one using my ISPs Control Panel.  All came back with no fault on the line (or something like, line performance is within acceptable tolerances).

The online support on the IM was unfortunately reading from a script and would not veer from it.  Sending an engineer to check mine and adjacent lines at the exchange and terminations in-between was not an option.  Sending a "Home Improvement" engineer and charging £99 to fix my wiring was the only option on offer.

One lady in the village has booked an engineer's visit today, so I hope that when he reaches the exchange he will resolve what's wrong with a number of lines there (more people have now come forward with this high pitch telephone problem).

[ColinS]

One lady in the village has booked an engineer's visit today, so I hope that when he reaches the exchange he will resolve what's wrong with a number of lines there (more people have now come forward with this high pitch telephone problem).

It is more than unfortunate that people have to be put in this situation when clearly there is a fault affecting several people on (most probably) the same PCP if not DP.  However, and BS should be able to confirm this, once an engineer arrives, if he can be 'made aware' that the problem is affecting more than one customer, then I would not expect the lady to be charged.

[Black Sheep]

Hi. How it works, is that we (engineers) do not ever charge the EU. Our contract is with the CP/ISP and we can only bill them. The CP/ISP will read the engineers notes and clear code and act accordingly. The CP's HAVE to make the EU's aware that charges MAY apply if the fault is found to be anything beyond the test socket in the NTE, deliberate damage, etc.

[guest]

Slightly OT but maybe BS can assist :

What's the situation when its a safety issue and you call Openreach directly (as their website instructs you to do)? I'm thinking in terms of accidental damage pulls down a line etc.

I'm also planning ahead in case the people redoing our driveway next week manage to snag the cable as if I went through Sky to get that sorted I'd have no drive and no phone for 6 months at least

Sorry for slight derail, just curious what the procedure is.

[Black Sheep]

Hi Rizla

We often get these situations that you mention (safety/hazard). Examples are: Cabinet doors open, Pole knocked over/Set on fire, Dropwires hanging low over road, Carriageway box collapsed/Has been stolen, Buried cable exposed in field (trip hazard) ............ etc etc etc ................
All of which can, and should be, reported directly to Openreach as time could be of the essence. Once the word 'Dangerous' is mentioned, which generally applies to this kind of situation, then the task takes immediate priority.   

The other scenario you are referring to, ie: your driveway, would fall under the 'Plant Protection Officers' remit. We operate a free 'Locate and mark' service in order to protect from 'accidents' happening. The PPO just attaches his 'Genny' to the cable/s that may be affected by the work, and then uses his 'CAT' to track the cable/s marking up its location as he goes.

The amount of high-end 'Civils' gangs that can't be ar**d using this service used to be extreme, and damage was often. With the introduction of fibre and it's subsequent repair costs, I'm happy to say that in my experience these damages are now in the lower percentages due to the increased use of our service.

  

 

[guest]

I reported cab doors open to OR a couple of weeks ago. Not sure I'd do it again TBH as I got called by 4 different people, culminating in the poor sod of an engineer who phoned me to say "there is no cab on this street". I said "I know, its PCPx on this exchange" and he said "Why didn't you say that in the first place?". Of course I had done exactly that but the OR call handlers have no idea what a PCP is (yes really).

Re the driveway - looks like the conduit (25mm PVC or so I'd guess) goes down more than 250mm at the entry point. I'll have a wee dig and see how far down it goes, we're only going 350mm down anyway and it looks to me like this got done properly (which is a surprise given the rest of the house). If it looks dodgy then whats the fastest way to get this service please? I suspect I'm too late anyway as work starts in a week.

Sounds much the same as the water company does (they call it a "sonde" test).

Many apologies for the brief hijack of thread 

[Black Sheep]

Most 'Cab doors open' (approx. 95%) are VM's and usually a waste of our time. Obviously, the details given by 'you' are what are given to us. If you say "Cab doors open on Union St", there could be 2/3 'Union St's' in the Town/City.
If we can't find it from 'Your' description given to the call-centre advisor, don't be totally surprised if we ring the contact number you have given (usually your mobile phone) to seek out more detail. They may not know what a PCP is, but they do type down what is said to them.
If no-one reports the 'Damage', it's no skin off our nose as it's not a 'stat' we have to meet.

As PPO duty is a completely different part of the business to mine, I wouldn't have a clue as to the timescales for attendance ?? All you can do is ring Openreach and request a PPO visit. At least if you have and one doesn't turn up in time, and the contractor smashes your duct and cable up, you (or your contractors) may have an argument to have any subsequent charged work rescinded ?.

[Mick]

The plot thickens ... I was advised by the wife that the engineer visited the neighbour, went to the exchange and fixed their line, but advised that he was not able to fix the rest "because there is a problem at the 20CN exchange and he is not trained on the antiquated equipment we have" ....   

Apparently, they will need to get one of the old boys out (not many of them around because they are going into retirement) who still know how to repair this sort of equipment. 

In a sense, I am grateful that we still have broadband (at any speed), but will wait to see how long it may take for the voice fault to be fixed.  I'm told that 10 houses have now confirmed they have the same fault, so it is beyond me why a single engineer is not sent out to fix them all at the antiquated exchange, instead of 10 separate engineers, on 10 separate occasions.

[Black Sheep]

Sounds like you've either misunderstood what may have been said, 3rd hand news never travels well, or the engineer isn't as up to speed as some are ??

Firstly, for info, we can't just start mending people's lines ad-hoc. We have to have an audit trail. Secondly, our systems automatically pick up if there is more than one fault reported in a particular location. However, it needs the EU's to report them individually so our systems 'see' the high fault volume on a particular node. When it does, it 'commons' all the faults together and only one of the faults is given to the engineer as a 'Lead Task'. He will be contacted by the 'Commons Control' to be made aware of the details of the other faults.

The bit about being trained on antiquated 20CN equipment is pure fiction. The lay-out and connections of 20CN is exactly the same as 21CN. Even with that in mind, if the faults are 'commoned' to an 'Exchange Line Card', then the engineer will have to pass the job back for BT Operate to pick up the trail. They own the equipment, whatever ilk it may be.

The crux of the matter is, you could have 50 folk in your locality whingeing about loss of service, but if only one person complains, it looks on the face of it to us as a single stand-alone issue.

[snadge]

I personally think BT need to try and put a better fault detection system in place, its not the first time ive seen someone with landline problems with audible noise such as crackling etc on the line, only to have the CP's LTOK (Line Test OK) and start quoting the £99/£129 call out fee which just frightens most customers into submission, who would rather just shut up & put up than pay £129 or so to TRY and get it fixed (with no promise of it being fixed) as thats how it comes across... 

[Black Sheep]

I personally think BT need to try and put a better fault detection system in place, its not the first time ive seen someone with landline problems with audible noise such as crackling etc on the line, only to have the CP's LTOK (Line Test OK) and start quoting the £99/£129 call out fee which just frightens most customers into submission, who would rather just shut up & put up than pay £129 or so to TRY and get it fixed (with no promise of it being fixed) as thats how it comes across... 

Snadge ...... I would think a global leader in Telecoms such as BT, has invested in as state-of-the-art test systems as is practical ?? The potential charges mentioned when reporting a fault, are mandatory. There is a test socket on the NTE5, deliberately engineered that way as it is a demarcation point between what is covered in the EU's line-rental agreement, and what is not.
If the EU doesn't possess this type of Master Socket, then they will not be charged for an engineering visit anyway, (short of deliberate damage causing the issue).

BT have made it as simple as is possible for an EU to determine whether the issue lies within the premises or not.

[snadge]

I personally think BT need to try and put a better fault detection system in place, its not the first time ive seen someone with landline problems with audible noise such as crackling etc on the line, only to have the CP's LTOK (Line Test OK) and start quoting the £99/£129 call out fee which just frightens most customers into submission, who would rather just shut up & put up than pay £129 or so to TRY and get it fixed (with no promise of it being fixed) as thats how it comes across... 

Snadge ...... I would think a global leader in Telecoms such as BT, has invested in as state-of-the-art test systems as is practical ?? The potential charges mentioned when reporting a fault, are mandatory. There is a test socket on the NTE5, deliberately engineered that way as it is a demarcation point between what is covered in the EU's line-rental agreement, and what is not.
If the EU doesn't possess this type of Master Socket, then they will not be charged for an engineering visit anyway, (short of deliberate damage causing the issue).

BT have made it as simple as is possible for an EU to determine whether the issue lies within the premises or not.

Im just saying that maybe they could try and look into making it better, I mean theres obviously times when there is a fault BUT their systems dont detect it.

also, when this type of thing happens a lot of the time the CP rep says there will be call out charges, when really they should say "there MIGHT be call out charges depending the outcome, but if your NTE5 is installed correctly and the fault you experience is still the same in the test socket then its likely no charges will be applied" - saying "it will cost £99" (regardless)  does frighten a lot of customers in this position who would rather just put up with an intermittent service than pay £99, when really theres an external fault and it will cost them nothing.

well, with that advice in mind I would advise the OP that when the line is problematic to connect his 'phone only' to the test socket (shown in first photo on this page) and call BT back and request a line test explaining that its in the test socket and therefore there shouldn't be any charges (providing the NTE5 is installed correctly, i.e. fed directly off the incoming line and not a splitter which could be feeding other sockets)