Kitz ADSL Broadband Information
adsl spacer  
Support this site
Home Broadband ISPs Tech Routers Wiki Forum
 
     
   Compare ISP   Rate your ISP
   Glossary   Glossary
 
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Author Topic: FTTC  (Read 8323 times)

Maturecheese

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 77
FTTC
« on: September 24, 2011, 10:36:38 AM »

BT are currently rolling out FTTC in my area (I'm Shocked :)) and I had high hopes until I started reading all about the various problems other people on here are having.  Same old same old by the look of it as in being past from pillar to post by BT and various ISP,s and having a brick wall in front of you when you know roughly what the problem is.   As I currently struggle to get 2meg down my line and that is only possible with a high depth of interleaving I will obviously be going over to Infinity unless the answer to my upcoming question is yes.

When BT have installed fibre optic cable from the exchange to my cabinet do they then decommission the copper loop or does the fibre run concurrent?  I ask because if the fibre replaces the copper loop then surely my current provider will be able to supply me with a greater proportion of my 'up to 8 meg' throughput than it currently does due to the improvement of the line to the cabinet?

Also, is FTTC in use in any other country or is BT pioneering this approach and with us consumers as guinea pigs?
Logged
Blessed are the Cheesemakers

roseway

  • Administrator
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 40229
  • Penguins CAN fly
    • DSLstats
Re: FTTC
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2011, 10:45:11 AM »

You don't have to change to BT infinity to get the benefits of FTTC. Independent ISPs can supply it as well. If you're happy with your present ISP, then I suggest that you ask them if they offer the service. Otherwise, you might think it worth going to one of the rather more expensive, more supportive ISPs.
Logged
  Eric

Maturecheese

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 77
Re: FTTC
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2011, 11:39:58 AM »

Thanks for the reply Roseway but at the moment it seems BT will be the only ISP offering fibre at my exchange (SWKGH).  I am currently with Sky and they can't give me any info on this.

As for my question I think Razpag covers it

Can't be bothered giving an in-depth explanation, suffice to say that yes, the new Fibre Cabs are to be installed within 100mtrs of the original Cabs.

The connection method is exactly the same as with ADSL, it's just the DSLAM is now in the Fibre Cab. So, the PSTN will be on the E-side in the old Cab, this will then be connected to a link cable that goes to the new Cab which is pre-connected to the DSLAM.
The return leg is also pre-connected in the new Cab to a link cable going back to the old Cab. So, the Dial tone and the Broadband signal now both appear in the old Cab and just require wiring up to the D-side going on to the EU's premises.

Hard to explain really, but in simple terme the engineer just needs to work in the old Cab as all the work in the new Cab is pre-connected to the link cables.

Reminds me of similar introductions to an old series calles 'SOAP' for those over 40 yrs of age. ;D 


I take it from this that the old wiring is still in place and in use for voice and therefore also for adsl and if I want fibre then the two are connected otherwise its same old same old with my adsl coonnection.

Logged
Blessed are the Cheesemakers

limbo

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 27
Re: FTTC
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2011, 12:24:36 PM »

Thanks for the reply Roseway but at the moment it seems BT will be the only ISP offering fibre at my exchange (SWKGH).  I am currently with Sky and they can't give me any info on this.

As for my question I think Razpag covers it

Can't be bothered giving an in-depth explanation, suffice to say that yes, the new Fibre Cabs are to be installed within 100mtrs of the original Cabs.

The connection method is exactly the same as with ADSL, it's just the DSLAM is now in the Fibre Cab. So, the PSTN will be on the E-side in the old Cab, this will then be connected to a link cable that goes to the new Cab which is pre-connected to the DSLAM.
The return leg is also pre-connected in the new Cab to a link cable going back to the old Cab. So, the Dial tone and the Broadband signal now both appear in the old Cab and just require wiring up to the D-side going on to the EU's premises.

Hard to explain really, but in simple terme the engineer just needs to work in the old Cab as all the work in the new Cab is pre-connected to the link cables.

Reminds me of similar introductions to an old series calles 'SOAP' for those over 40 yrs of age. ;D 


I take it from this that the old wiring is still in place and in use for voice and therefore also for adsl and if I want fibre then the two are connected otherwise its same old same old with my adsl coonnection.

Hi Maturecheese,

Don't know if you have stumbled across my thread, but I was with BT Retail for Broadband and have switched to PlusNet's Value Fibre package (line rental et al) (let me know if you want a referral!). Bald_Eagle1's thread is the main one I suspect you've been reading. As you may well gather from that, FTTC is a new technology, and as such none of the ISPs seem to understand it to the same depth they do with ADSL services. I think if you wait a bit, more ISPs will start offering FTTC for your line.

I think you've got the idea. The pair running from the cabinet to the exchange (known as the E-side) will only be used for your phone service. It has effectively reduced the distance from your house to the DSLAM (which used to be at the exchange), as it is connecting to the new cabinet's DSLAM.

My D-side cabling had a broken wire within the PCP cabinet, which was likely causing a High Resistance fault, which was fixed when the OR engineer set up the VDSL package (he spotted it, which didn't happen before). So I suspect that, combined with him cleaning up the wiring outside my house, and me cleaning up the internal wiring, were I to switch back to ADSL, I would expect to get somewhere in the region of ~2.5Mbps (as predicted), rather than the 330Kbps I was getting before.

So I guess if you think that there is a fault on the D-side of your line, which gets fixed when they install your service, you may well see a faster speed using ADSL. Of course if there is a fault then you could try and get it fixed regardless of switching to VDSL! I was just one of those people who assumed that all I could get was a crummy connection, especially since BT sent out an engineer who found nothing wrong a couple of years back.

Hope this makes sense!

Limbo

Ps I think VDSL is used more widely elsewhere- in Germany and the USA, I think.
Logged

waltergmw

  • Content Team
  • Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2774
Re: FTTC
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2011, 02:48:23 PM »

@ Mature Cheese,

There is an Ofcom stipulation that BT Openreach must provide both types of Sub Loop Unbundling FTTC service; i.e. an isolated D side line and one where the phone line is still connected back to the exchange.

As far as I'm aware all BT wholesale and retail FTTC offerings stipulate that you must purchase a phone line as well. (This is the wonderfully described Shared Metallic Path Facility).

In a very few areas where an independent supplier such as Rutland Telecom operate, they insist on the fully isolated D side line and they provide a replacement VOIP phone service. (i.e. Full Metallic Path Facility.) The major advantages of this approach are that the ISP only purchases one link cable so have the capacity for every twisted pair within a PCP green cabinet, (albeit at an inflated rental charge,) rather then the two that BT use; the independent supplier also obtains all the revenue from both broadband and VOIP. A further minor benefit is that the E side cable does not exist so there is a possibility that some line noise is reduced and that Openreach activities are not complicated by the two connections. This should avoid the difficulties that Bald Eagle faced when BT Openreach double-jumpered his service in error.

Kind regards,
Walter
Logged

Maturecheese

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 77
Re: FTTC
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2011, 05:24:48 PM »

Right I will try to explain what I am getting at but please be aware that I am a novice when it comes to telecommunication matters and am not clued up on BT jargon.

I wanted to know if my adsl (sky up to 8 meg) will speed up when the fibre to the cabinet comes on-line due to the e side being fibre. As I understand it, the cabinet will be where the d-slam is located and therefore acting as the exchange, so to speak, I will lose less signal and therefore get more throughput :).    Will the copper wire e side be only for telephone use or will they continue to use it for adsl also in which case no change for me :(
Logged
Blessed are the Cheesemakers

jeffbb

  • Content Team
  • Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2329
Re: FTTC
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2011, 06:32:55 PM »

As far as I understand it whether you get the benefit of FTCC depends on whether you subscribe to it .
Regards Jeff
Logged
zen user

Oranged

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 623
    • The Mobile Help Forum
Re: FTTC
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2011, 07:00:47 PM »


I wanted to know if my adsl (sky up to 8 meg) will speed up when the fibre to the cabinet comes on-line due to the e side being fibre.


Definitely not.

As jeffbb states you must subscribe to one of the fibre products, either BT's Infinity or BT's Broadband with Fibre or one of the fibre products from another ISP.
Logged

roseway

  • Administrator
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 40229
  • Penguins CAN fly
    • DSLstats
Re: FTTC
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2011, 07:18:49 PM »

Thanks for the reply Roseway but at the moment it seems BT will be the only ISP offering fibre at my exchange (SWKGH).  I am currently with Sky and they can't give me any info on this.

As far as I know, any ISP who is offering FTTC services will be able to supply you when FTTC is installed at your locality. It doesn't depend on the ISP enabling the particular exchange, they just buy the capacity from BT wholesale on the same terms as BT Broadband do. Zen and AAISP are two examples you could ask.
Logged
  Eric

waltergmw

  • Content Team
  • Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2774
Re: FTTC
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2011, 07:37:36 PM »

@ Eric,

I think you absolutely correct. An interesting time may be had by those TalkTalk etc. customers who elect to purchase the TalkTalk Fibre Optic Boost FTTC product for an additional 10.00 monthly charge. ( TalkTalk Essentials or Plus broadband customers only.) That will require (at least) the disconnecting of the old TalkTalk etc. LLU ADSL.

Kind regards,
Walter
Logged

Maturecheese

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 77
Re: FTTC
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2011, 08:09:42 PM »

so unless I subscribe to a fibre product there will be no change to the attenuation of my line or the speed I get which leads me to believe that I will still be receiving my signal down the copper line from the exchange via the cabinet.  It looks like that has answered my question as to whether when my cabinet is fibre activated the old copper line to the exchange will still carry my adsl.
Logged
Blessed are the Cheesemakers

burakkucat

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 32508
  • Over the Rainbow Bridge
    • The ELRepo Project
Re: FTTC
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2011, 10:47:21 PM »

Quote
as to whether when my cabinet is fibre activated the old copper line to the exchange will still carry my adsl.

Yes, that is correct. In the case of a "fibre activated cabinet" (actually a pair of cabinets, the existing POTS PCP and the new cabinet with the fibre termination and the DSLAM) the following applies --

(a) An ADSL service subscriber will not gain any benefit. The ADSL signal will still travel over the D-side and E-side copper to/from the exchange via the existing PCP, exactly like the POTS.

(b) A FTTC service subscriber will have the VDSL signal travel to/from their premise over the D-side copper to/from the existing PCP, where a tie cable will take the combined VDSL and POTS signal to the new cabinet. There it connects to the DSLAM and the data is diverted to/from the fibre optic cable. The POTS signal returns to/from the existing PCP along a further tie cable and is connected to the E-side copper which then winds its merry way back to the exchange.

In both cases (a) and (b), above, the telephony service takes an (almost) identical path. In the case of a FTTC subscriber, there are actually a few more joints in the POTS copper!
Logged
:cat:  100% Linux and, previously, Unix. Co-founder of the ELRepo Project.

Please consider making a donation to support the running of this site.

waltergmw

  • Content Team
  • Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2774
Re: FTTC
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2011, 10:29:25 AM »

@ Mature Cheese,

Pictures are sometimes better than words so the link below will illustrate one type of BT PCP Green cabinet using Insulation Displacement Connector (IDC) blocks. (Many PCPs look much more bewildering with wires just connected with crimp connectors.) The picture shows the E (Exchange) side cable entering on the left and the D (Distribution) side on the right. Along the top you can see the yellow / blue twisted pairs that connect an E side pair to a D side pair. In the centre are the two new link cables ready for service connections to the FTTC.

If you pay for a new FTTC service your top pair will be cut and connected to the same colour pair in the two link cables. Otherwise your existing service(s) will continue unaltered.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/66247741

The two link cable pairs are connected together in more IDC blocks within the FTTC and an extra "Tee" connection is made to a pair connecting to the DSLAM electronics equipment and thence to the new fibre cable(s).

You can see installation pictures of a new FTTC here:-

http://www.trefor.net/2011/07/15/fttc-the-inside-scoop-cabinets-as-you-have-never-seen-them-before/

The bottom right picture shows the fibre cable in place but before the link cables have been pulled in and connected to the IDC connectors.

Kind regards,
Walter
Logged

burakkucat

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 32508
  • Over the Rainbow Bridge
    • The ELRepo Project
Re: FTTC
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2011, 02:20:02 PM »

@Walter,

Thank you for providing the link to your picture of the PCP with the tie cables, I have downloaded a copy to add to my collection. :)
Logged
:cat:  100% Linux and, previously, Unix. Co-founder of the ELRepo Project.

Please consider making a donation to support the running of this site.
 

anything