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[sevenlayermuddle]

But at the end of the day, no amount of 'punishment' will solve the underlying problem, that something is badly broken in the structure of our society, particularly as regards many young people who, for whatever reasons, do not percieve themseleves to be a part of it.    That is the problem that the politicans need to address, and I don't think there can be any quick fix.

When they banned caning in schools was when this started,pupils have now no respect for teachers and if they even touch them they threaten to sue them.
A lot of parents are no better,often going into schools and assaulting teachers.
Many kids are brought up using social networking speak and can't read or write properly,often playing truant.Parents have the 'out of sight out of mind' attitude and if there is any trouble their first response is,it can't be my so and so he/she is at so and so's etc.
The way to hit these people is take away their welfare benefits,as most of the yobs last night don't work/will never work,following in their parents and even grandparents footsteps.
You are right Colin,there is no quick fix,but a start has to be made somewhere.

Yes, I agree with most of that.

I remember first week at secondary school, first encounter with a very popular English teacher, when he summoned three lads at random and gave them 'three of the belt'.  He explained that it was just a tactic to ensure that although we could enjoy his light-hearted humour,  we also recognised his authority.  The poor lads  knew there was no point in telling Dad, as Dad just clipped you again if he heard you'd got the belt at school.

Any teacher doing above would be thorwn in jail dowadays, but the tactic worked.  The guy was subsequently able to run English classes which were a lot of fun, whilst still staying in control - yet the belt was rarely deployed again.  The lads affected got over it of course, because 'getting the belt' was almost a daily ritual 70s Glasgow schooling.

[chrissie]

Must admit SLM I don't agree with violence to control anyone even though it was the same situation for us at school in those days, I guess it was a threat to most of us so we behaved (read scare witless to do anything else for moi lol).  My way of dealing with children is to deprive them of something which hurts much more and doesn't teach them violence as a method of control.  However, even saying that I know in our soft society it would mean something else had to be brought in, but IF parents were in control of their children as they were years ago, maybe the non violent control might even work now!  Horse and stable door sadly come to mind at this point in time. 

[UncleUB]

Parliament has been recalled and will sit on Thursday

16000 police will be on the streets of London tonight,still not the answer imo.If water cannon was brought in those police numbers could be reduced substantially.

Once the video footage has been analysed,no doubt in the coming days there will be a few front doors coming off their hinges and dragging this scum out of their beds to (hopefully)get a sentence that will fit their crime/s

[scottiesmum]

According to 'on the spot' reports  there were children as young as 7 on the streets in some of these areas !

Sadly the publicity that these yobs are receiving on the 24 hours news services is giving them the oxygen they desire.  Perhaps the news media should now concentrate on the many people, including young people, who are joining in the campaign,  currently being distributes on social networks, who are  getting together to clean up certain areas.   

What a very sad episode for the  UK.   Any similar events that have taken place here, events of two years ago in the suburbs or Paris come to mind, the CRS are automatically deployed and water cannons are used.  They seem to be very effective.  I would mentioned that the Gendarmes, Police and CRS are permanently armed here, and this doesn't result in countless people being shot.

[chrissie]

   16000 police will be on the streets of London tonight,still not the answer imo.If water cannon was brought in those police numbers could be reduced substantially. 

Have to agree there Uncy.  Trouble is Teresa May categorically stated this morning that water cannons and the army on the streets is definitely (defiantly??) not the way we do things in this country!!

[AdrianH]

   16000 police will be on the streets of London tonight,still not the answer imo.If water cannon was brought in those police numbers could be reduced substantially. 

Have to agree there Uncy.  Trouble is Teresa May categorically stated this morning that water cannons and the army on the streets is definitely (defiantly??) not the way we do things in this country!!

No they just do that and worse in other countries.   Funny how we can shoot,burn,torture and bomb women and children in other places but we cannot have criminals controlled here.

[kitz]

I watched a home-video last night that someone had put up on their twitter. 
It showed a mob charging 8 riot police and how they had to retreat whilst bricks and street signs were hurled at them. 
BBC have posted an (edited and bleeped out version) this morning, that to me didnt quite evoke the same sense of horror/fear for the police as the one I watched last night.

I say bring out one of these. *

I gave up watching the BBC last night.. and I was sick of seeing the repeated Theresa May (or maynots) pathetic wimpy speech. 
I switched to Sky and the social network group news where far more information was coming out.


----------
*On reflection where are the Talons?  These cost millions of pounds..  wonder if they are still here or if they have been shipped out for use in other countries.

The one thing that sickens me in all this IS the fact we are so goddamn quick to ship out help and our forces to other countries/nations.. but seem to be dragging feet when it comes to protecting our own country and citizens.

[scottiesmum]

In May this year the G8 Summit was held in Deauville, in the Calvados  region.   Being aware that previous G8 summits have been subjected to attacks by people hell bent on causing problems, 12,000   police/gendarmes  were deployed for the two day event. ( a close friend of ours was one of these)  Deauville has a population of 4,000.    No trouble !!

Let us hope that the UK are preparing to deploy an appropriate number of control officers,whether they be police or military, to cover the Olympic games in 2012.  It doesn't bear thinking about the 'mileage' that these mindless 'rent a mob' would get out of an event such as that.

I am totally unconvinced that the perpetrators are  disenfranchised youths, but more convinced that they are opportunists. 

[UncleUB]

I thought/think Theresa Mays comment this morning were disgraceful and if I was in the commons would be calling for her resignation.

There's already plenty of photos circulating of the looters,won't be long before a few front doors are coming off their hinges.

I have been trawling through various Facebook pages and came across someone openly posting that Barnet will be in line for trouble tonight...I wonder if police intelligence has picked up on it.

[CurlyWhirly]

I've been sat watching the news with a huge lump in my throat..  watching these thugs destroy the lives and business of so many.

I've just heard a video that is shocking to listen to - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14460554

It's the video entitled "Two 17-year-olds said they were "showing police and rich people they could do whatever they wanted".


I wouldn't call businessmen rich, they are just trying to make a living 

[CurlyWhirly]

Most of these thugs have left(or are still at school),hardly able to read and write and now suddenly because the can't get a job(not that many of them want one anyway) have decided its Britain's fault.

Agreed.

I've been unemployed at various times throughout my life but I've not resorted to rioting, theft and violence 

It all started when an alleged gangster got shot dead by the police in retaliation after allegedly shooting at the police.

I don't know why the rioting escalated perhaps the yobs just liked what they were doing and so continued with it 

[UncleUB]

Highbury Corner Magistrates Court has dealt with a large number of cases arising from the riots in north London.

Those who appeared this afternoon were all male and generally in their 20s, although there were some youths.

Charges were most commonly burglary and criminal damage. There were a large number of guilty pleas entered.

The magistrates said that their powers of punishment were insufficient in the light of the fact that the offences were committed during a riot, which amounted to a "substantial aggravating feature".

A significant number of those charged were said in court to be of previously good character and had simply been drawn in to the offending.

In one defendant's case, a lawyer described his client as offending in "a moment of madness".

And this is what Cameron means by 'the full force of the law' 

[UncleUB]

100 Tons broken into the arndale centre m,Chester. Is that your robust policing mr cameron

[kitz]

OMG.  This is just getting worse tonight and its spreading country-wide.

More force should have been utilised before now to nip this in the bud.  Now we just have thugs around the UK seeing that people in London getting away with the looting and pillaging that they think they can also get away with it if they start a more local one.

IMHO Blackberry should close down their BBM service which is being used to organise many of these outbursts an co-ordinate attacks.
The REALLY ironic thing.. is if they do have Blackberries.. they can hardly be that hard done by can they?

@ UB.. yeah I see various social media methods such as FB and Twitter being used to set up these attacks too. 
AFAIK Facebook at least seem to be pro-active. 
I (and obviously others) saw a group last night, which was reported to FAcebook.  It was gone a few hours later.  I hope Facebook also forwarded the member details to the police.

Now I hate to be considered racist.. but I am just stating a fact here, so dont shoot the messenger.
I saw the names of those group members, I even saw many of their own profile pics. NONE of them had any 'traditional UK names'  all of the names were like Mohamed, Ariff etc etc.

[CurlyWhirly]

Now I hate to be considered racist.. but I am just stating a fact here, so dont shoot the messenger.
I saw the names of those group members, I even saw many of their own profile pics. NONE of them had any 'traditional UK names'  all of the names were like Mohamed, Ariff etc etc.

Your not alone, I was thinking the same thing,