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Author Topic: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate  (Read 253977 times)

Blackeagle

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #555 on: April 15, 2012, 02:22:15 PM »

Run one of the graph scripts Josh.  I fell into this as well, thinking that the graphs would be auto-produced but they aren't.  Just the log file is. Run teststats2.bat, graphpd.bat and graph6.bat and you should get all the required stuff  ;)

Props to those that produced the scripts.  Currently I am working on a .net prog to do the same/similar thing.
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JoshShep

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #556 on: April 15, 2012, 03:10:26 PM »

Paul, could you please take a look at my line stats on my topic.

Thanks,

Josh

waltergmw

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #557 on: April 15, 2012, 03:24:03 PM »

@ Paul,

Picking up on your earlier question on anything within the FTTC here are a few ideas:-

A.  Isolate the E side pair within the PCP and observe if that makes any noticeable difference.

B.  I suspect nobody has even opened the FTTC as BT O faults staff do not have access there. Whilst it's usually impossible to ask for a specific action perhaps PlusNet can prevail upon BT O et al ? E.g. with tone generator at your test socket, trace your pair within the FTTC, then 1. do a detailed close inspection & check of the pairs and the relevant Telco64 plug reseating if practical 2. Then re-punch down the IDC wires 3. Reconnect the modem and test.

C.  Remake all the crimps / IDC connections within the PCP and observe.

D.  Do a PCP Lift & Shift.

Kind regards,
Walter
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Darren

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #558 on: April 15, 2012, 05:13:01 PM »

I'm sorry to see your still without a resolution Paul, have there been any discussions about the port possibly being faulty?
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #559 on: April 15, 2012, 05:37:22 PM »

Well, my connection re-synced yet again this morning.
This time, sync speed was increased to 27396 k.
SNRM is currently at 8.3dB & the attainble rate is 30700 k.

I can't understand why, especially for my connection, Interleaving is still completely OFF.

Again, I can see nothing in my logs to suggest a reason for this latest re-sync.

Over the months, I have had a port flex, a lift & shift, copper pairs swapped, the E-side disconnected & the D-side tested, my drop wire replaced etc.

As far as I am aware, no repair work whatsoever has been carried out (or anything even checked) within the fibre cabinet itself.

I am only a now confirmed 834m from the cabinet.

I could almost accept permanent low(ish) speeds over that line length, but not the instability which just HAS to be a really easy fix (once someone can actually pinpoint it), doesn't it?.

I genuinely thought last weekend's engineering work had more or less resolved everything.

Unfortunately, it appears the saga will have to continue, hopefully not for too much longer.
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burakkucat

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #560 on: April 15, 2012, 08:03:40 PM »

Quote
I could almost accept permanent low(ish) speeds over that line length, but not the instability which just HAS to be a really easy fix (once someone can actually pinpoint it), doesn't it?.

b*cat nods, with an sad look on his face.  :(
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #561 on: April 16, 2012, 07:51:41 AM »

Update 16/04/12:

It looks as though my service has now been switched back to 40Mb/10Mb.

At least, following another early hours connection re-sync, my Upstream IP Profile has reverted to 10Mb rather than the 20Mb reported whilst on the 80/20 trial.

However, simply picking up the phone a few times this morning to run the 17070 Quiet Line Test caused SNRM to drop below zero with immediade connection re-syncs.

Dialling in once also caused SNRM to drop below zero with an immediate re-sync.

Since dialling in, I can again use the phone without the connection actually dropping.
SNRM still drops by 2dB to 4dB or so though.

I wonder, could the ringing pulse voltages/current have effected yet another temporary "repair" on possibly a dodgy cable joint somewhere?

« Last Edit: April 16, 2012, 07:54:42 AM by Bald_Eagle1 »
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Black Sheep

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #562 on: April 16, 2012, 10:49:32 AM »

"I have very recently taken to driving around with the car radio tuned to 612KHz (proper saddo) & do notice a couple of areas between home & the cabinet where the background white noise changes to a buzzing sound (during daytime).
At nighttime, the high strength of some Spanish radio station appears to block all that out at 612 KHz.

Not that it's relevant to my connection, I notice the same buzzing sound when passing through some (not all) Pelican crossings & normal traffic lights.

@BS, is that the sort of hard to describe sound?"


Obviously, without listening to the actual noise myself, I couldn't say for 100%, but I would punt that it is REIN that you are hearing. LOL at the Spanish radio-station. It's painful when that is transmitting. ;D

I remember when on our REIN course, that the instructor had a 'sound-byte' of the noise, but try as I might I cannot locate it anywhere in the archives that I have access to. He had a piece of kit that was found culpable of REIN (it was a Hub power adaptor), and with the official Tester 444B switched on (Glorified radio), he plugged it in for about 0.0004 of a second to demo the noise in a 'live' situation. If he'd left it in for a 'period of time', it would have caused havoc with the DSL equipment in the Exchange.

I'll continue on my quest to fing the recorded soundbyte, but I've a feeling Walter or B*Cat will find a similar one before me !!  ;D
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #563 on: April 16, 2012, 01:12:33 PM »

Cheers BS,

Could this have any significance from my other message?:-

Quote

I wonder, could the ringing pulse voltages/current have effected yet another temporary "repair" on possibly a dodgy cable joint somewhere?

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snadge

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #564 on: April 16, 2012, 01:17:43 PM »

wow - ive not read the entire thread for obvious reasons, but Iam subbing to it so i can see if you get sorted mate... I recently had a problem similar , dropouts on incoming calls, fiddling about with wires and filters seemed to fix it until later on started again - for me they said it was crossed wire as we had random rings and could hear people talking, still waiting for it too be fixed hopefully tomoz.

Your in good hands anyway - so do you think its REIN thats the cause? how can this happen when the phone rings if its REIN (RP, anyone?)..?

anyway, best of luck mate..
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Black Sheep

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #565 on: April 16, 2012, 01:37:20 PM »

Cheers BS,

Could this have any significance from my other message?:-

Quote

I wonder, could the ringing pulse voltages/current have effected yet another temporary "repair" on possibly a dodgy cable joint somewhere?


If i'm understanding your question correctly, BE. I've never known ringing voltages/current temporarily 'cure' a 'HR'. If anything, it highlights the issue in the form of audible noise when using the PSTN part of the circuit.

A trick 'we' use when trying to locate a persistent (multiple reports) 'HR-type fault', is to 'Megger' the line, obviously with all Exchange and EU's equipment unplugged. This can 'blow' the fault to a full 'Open circuit'. It has in the past, also been used to dry out a wet circuit. For example if there was minimal fault voltages present, and the fault was in a cable-length (IE-not in an actual cable joint), then a quick blast from the 'Megger' would put paid to this. This was only a temporary measure as over the months 'damp ingress' would most likely re-occur.  :)
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burakkucat

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #566 on: April 16, 2012, 06:49:34 PM »

Quote
I've never known ringing voltages/current temporarily 'cure' a 'HR'.

A joint that has corroded in such a way as to become semiconducting can be temporarily "fixed" by subjecting it to AC voltages, higher than the normal DC "bias" voltage.  ;)
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Black Sheep

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #567 on: April 16, 2012, 07:19:01 PM »

Quote
I've never known ringing voltages/current temporarily 'cure' a 'HR'.

A joint that has corroded in such a way as to become semiconducting can be temporarily "fixed" by subjecting it to AC voltages, higher than the normal DC "bias" voltage.  ;)

I can only say it as I see it, B*Cat. We tend to use the ringing voltage (AC wave) to enhance the 'HR', rather than to temporarily cure it ?

It's a common'ish occurence, whereby the EU has had a fault raised for a 'LTOK but noisy' issue. We arrive on-site and Sods Law dictates it will be noise-free. However, a burst of 'ringer' and a high-percentage of the time the noise will re-appear. Granted, not in all cases, but often.

That's why in these instances, we also use the TDR trace measuring back against applied voltage, then ring the faulty landline. The 'peak' will be more prevalent under this state, than against nominal working voltage (-48 or -54 Vdc).

As I say, I've only got my experience to comment on, I've nothing technical to back-up my claims.  :)
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burakkucat

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #568 on: April 16, 2012, 07:44:01 PM »

I will perform one of my best Japanese style bows to your experience, BS:)

Please take another look at the first 13 words of my previous post --

Quote
A joint that has corroded in such a way as to become semiconducting . . .

Now you will see that I used the word semiconducting, not the abbreviation HR.

If you were allowed contact with the various wizards within your employer's Grimbledon Down (a.k.a. Martlesham Heath), I'm sure they could give you practical evidence of such an occurrence. Somewhere in the back of my mind I have a recollection that a reverse-biased diode can be used as a form of a white-noise source. Perhaps an electronic engineer could comment, please?

B*Sheep --->  :friends:  <--- B*Cat

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Black Sheep

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #569 on: April 16, 2012, 08:25:34 PM »

I will perform one of my best Japanese style bows to your experience, BS:)

Please take another look at the first 13 words of my previous post --

Quote
A joint that has corroded in such a way as to become semiconducting . . .

Now you will see that I used the word semiconducting, not the abbreviation HR.

If you were allowed contact with the various wizards within your employer's Grimbledon Down (a.k.a. Martlesham Heath), I'm sure they could give you practical evidence of such an occurrence. Somewhere in the back of my mind I have a recollection that a reverse-biased diode can be used as a form of a white-noise source. Perhaps an electronic engineer could comment, please?

B*Sheep --->  :friends:  <--- B*Cat

I did realise you'd written 'semiconducting', but thought you'd meant it in relation to a 'HR' as BE was pertaining to the small 'HR lump' on the engineers TDR trace ?? :-[

The only time I would liken something as being semi-conducting is when we come across 'Rectified loop' faults. This (for those who aren't aware), is when voltage is allowed to flow in one direction, but not the other. With a meter connected, it would show a 'Loop' condition with the leads connected one way, then an 'Open' condition when the leads are reversed.

This is obviously acting like a diode, which is a semi-conductor with doping-bias applied. I genuinely have never heard of any other instances reffered to as being akin to a semiconductor ?? But as always, your knowledge is far-reaching B*Cat, and I always listen to what you have to say and would love to have a more in-depth insight into what you say.

PS .......  :friends: always mate. ;D
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