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Author Topic: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate  (Read 254041 times)

Bald_Eagle1

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #375 on: November 21, 2011, 10:26:35 AM »

Dear All,

Just a quick update following the engineer's visit of 15th November:-

The connection now appears stable, & is now hardly affected at all by incoming/outgoing phone calls.
Sync speed has also shown a SLIGHT improvement, but is still well below its original level.

14 day, 24 hour, & this morning's graphs can be seen at this link ( too large to upload here without losing definition):-

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B7Kcea04kkOENTc2NDdhOTctMTM0MS00MzUzLWIzMjYtMjYzMTRhYmU3YTZm


Paul.
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #376 on: November 29, 2011, 01:10:12 PM »

Howdydoody Folks,

Just a quick update:-

Since the engineer's visit of 15th November, my connection appears to be completely stable again (apart from the error count - more on that in my other thread at http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,10142.0.html

DS SNRM had been consistently running between approximately 4 dB & 4.5 dB with normal time of day fluctuations.
The modem had not re-synced since 18th November (some 11 days ago).
So, just for the hell of it, I thought I would force a re-sync this morning.

DS SNRM went up to 6.4 dB (now gradually tailed off to around 5.6 dB) & DS Sync speed went up slightly.

The outcome is that I am currently able to download at over 26 Mb for the first time since my 4 day (unexplained) loss of connection was restored toward the end of July.




My connection's DS attenuation still appears high though, which (to me) suggests there is still some sort of resistance somewhere in the D-side that CANNOT have been present when I was achieving the higher download speeds.
Either that, or there is a pysical cap on my connection's speed "somewhere".

I wonder if Plusnet are unwittingly capping my speed.
The engineer actually confirmed that 40 Mb was available at the cabinet this time, but Plusnet do appear to be possibly experiencing a minor glitch with their FTTC speed profile system, in that Plusnet's reported profile for some users who are solidly achieving maximum speeds, is lower than the default 37 Mb.

Mine has shown 37 dB, ever since I first noticed connection & speed problems. I wonder if it is somehow working in reverse, where Plusnet THINK they are letting me have the highest speeds, but in reality are somehow unwittingly restricing it.

Hmmmm. I'll have to ask Alex about that as he is aware of this "potential" issue to some extent:-

http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,100017.0.html


Paul.
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #377 on: December 15, 2011, 10:23:30 PM »

Ahhh,

Memories........................
 :( :( :( :( :(

[attachment deleted by admin]
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burakkucat

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #378 on: December 16, 2011, 12:08:45 AM »

Ahhh,

Memories........................
 :( :( :( :( :(

You've forgotten to include the "Rubbish_Speed_Test_Today", for comparison purposes.  :P
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #379 on: December 16, 2011, 05:46:56 AM »

Ahhh,

Memories........................
 :( :( :( :( :(

You've forgotten to include the "Rubbish_Speed_Test_Today", for comparison purposes.  :P


Here's a couple of recent ones:-






It did peak quite recently (but that didn't last for long before DLM had its wicked way with it):-

« Last Edit: December 16, 2011, 06:01:25 AM by Bald_Eagle1 »
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burakkucat

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #380 on: December 16, 2011, 06:33:15 PM »

Hmm.  :-\  Not good. Two out of the three equivalent to a relatively decent ADSL2+ service.  :-X

I would not be willing to pay my money for that.  >:(
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #381 on: December 16, 2011, 08:57:12 PM »

Hmm.  :-\  Not good. Two out of the three equivalent to a relatively decent ADSL2+ service.  :-X

I would not be willing to pay my money for that.  >:(

I don't really have a lot of options available to me.
I'm genuinely too far from from the exchange to gain any benefit from ADSL2+ at a much lower cost. So I could go back to 1 Mb to save the money.

Cable isn't available in my area.

Satellite is far too expensive.

It's too hilly in my area to consider wireless.

As FTTC is available, it's unlikely that FTTH will be rolled out any time in the near future.

Despite providing lots of factual evidence & statistics to the contrary, Plusnet are convinced my connection needs no further repair works & is as good as it ever will be.
Although each time an engineer has found & fixed a fault, I was told the same (LTOK).
It's just a pity that the engineers have never fully re-tested the connection after carrying out the work.

The only evidence I cannot provide is actual statistics from when my connection was obviously working well.
My attenuation levels for the various band plans is very high. That high, that I have gained diddly squat from the newer higher frequencies.
It surely cannot have been any where near so high when I achieved the decent speeds can it?

The real annoying aspect is that my decent speeds were achieved back in the 8c profile days.
Everyone else who was achieving a little over 30 Mb on the 8c profile now appear to be achieving the full Monty after the switch to 17a, or at least very close to it.

It now seems that I'll just have to live in hope that one day a BT engineer might accidentally fix whatever is wrong with my connection, just like a BT engineer accidentally broke it & left me with no services at all back in July.

It cannot just be coincidence that speeds & stability were pretty good before that accident, & have never returned since.
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waltergmw

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #382 on: December 17, 2011, 12:06:49 AM »

@ Paul,

I am reasonably convinced that you are by no means the only one in that predicament.
It is time that Ofcom insisted that BT publish far more realistic figures. Something just has to be done to improve those like you, as well as those e.g. on the far side of our most aptly named Cobblers Brook !

Another solution would be to insist Ofcom makes the providers charge pro-rata so you would effectively get a discount for the lousy performance.

Kind regards,
Walter
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #383 on: December 17, 2011, 01:31:39 PM »

Hi Walter,

@ Paul,

I am reasonably convinced that you are by no means the only one in that predicament.
It is time that Ofcom insisted that BT publish far more realistic figures. Something just has to be done to improve those like you, as well as those e.g. on the far side of our most aptly named Cobblers Brook !

Another solution would be to insist Ofcom makes the providers charge pro-rata so you would effectively get a discount for the lousy performance.

Kind regards,
Walter


It's not so much the cost, although a "discount" while a connection is under-performing would be nice (& possibly a slight incentive for providers to get it fixed).

It's more the issue that my line WAS performing very well, way beyond any 10 day training period (BTW, that apparently doesn't really apply to FTTC connections), but that it is now performning very poorly in comparison, yet nobody has any interest whatsover in "fixing" it as it is supposedly "within estimated speeds & specifications".

I have only today began to gather some "evidence" from other users on 1000m or so D-side connection lengths, where their attainable rates now peak at 44 Mb, giving sync speeds of 35 Mb:-
http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/t/4074867-re-long-line-fttc-question.html

& here:-

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/f/4074344-bt-infinity-draytek-2750n-connection-issues.html#Post4074884

My Attainable rate is currently only 32012 K, with a sync speed of 27131 K.

My own sync speed WAS 35 Mb, even on the older 8c profile, & as my estimated speeds were 14.6 Mb as opposed to that user's 8 Mb, it suggests that I really am closer than 1000m to the cabinet.

I do believe that Ofcom, or somebody else, should FORCE BT into providing equipment where users can actually see their own connection's statistics, without the risk of falling foul of any breach of Ts & Cs.
The decision to INTENTIONALLY hide these stats by providing LOCKED modems is disgraceful, in my opinion!

It really is a whole load of Cobblers Brook  >:( >:( >:(


Paul
(A.K.A. Mr. Angry of Oldham)
« Last Edit: December 17, 2011, 03:54:39 PM by Bald_Eagle1 »
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Oranged

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #384 on: December 17, 2011, 04:14:12 PM »


I do believe that Ofcom, or somebody else, should FORCE BT into providing equipment where users can actually see their own connection's statistics, without the risk of falling foul of any breach of Ts & Cs.
The decision to INTENTIONALLY hide these stats by providing LOCKED modems is disgraceful, in my opinion!


It could be construed as an unfair contract term associated with just the Infinity product because other broadband contracts allow such access.......but a contracts lawyer would need to be consulted on that one.
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Maturecheese

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #385 on: January 22, 2012, 05:35:13 PM »

I am roughly 600 meters from the cabinet (slight over estimate, I hope) and my estimated speed according to BT will be 27.7 mb.  Is this about right or is it quite slow and if it is slow for the length I can only conclude that the cable to the cabinet is aluminium :( as was hinted at by an engineer about 18 months ago.
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #386 on: January 22, 2012, 06:18:05 PM »

I am roughly 600 meters from the cabinet (slight over estimate, I hope) and my estimated speed according to BT will be 27.7 mb.  Is this about right or is it quite slow and if it is slow for the length I can only conclude that the cable to the cabinet is aluminium :( as was hinted at by an engineer about 18 months ago.

It's a little hard to say regarding your speed estimate.

In readiness for BT's speed doubling to 80Mb, they have stated that all speed estimates will be updated 28th/29th January.
However, it appears that some may have been updated already.

When I first got FTTC in June, my speed estimate was 14.6Mb. I achieved 32Mb - 33Mb (at first).

The FTTC profile has been gradually changed from 8c to 17a, again in readiness for speed doubling (more available higher frequencies & more available tones in which to load data bits.
I was switched to the 17a profile at the end of October.
Shortly after the profile swich, my speed estimate went up to 24Mb.
In the last couple of weeks, my speed estimate has gone up again, to 30Mb.

Most users with a relatively short distance (less than 800m) are currently achieving the full 40Mb.

Your estimate for only 600m does appear quite low, even if it is still based upon the old 8c profile.
I strongly suspect that aluminium cabling may indeed be a deciding factor in your estimated speed.

Most users, even on the old 8c profile, actually saw & have maintained much higher speeds than their estimates.
They even saw quite a substantial speed boost when switched to the 17a profile.

I would suggest you re-check your estimated speeds a few days after 29th January. It may increase.
Getting anyone to confirm whether or not it is currently based on the 17a profile will be nigh on impossible.

EDIT:
Have you noticed your estimated speeds changing over the last few months?
« Last Edit: January 22, 2012, 06:20:29 PM by Bald_Eagle1 »
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burakkucat

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #387 on: January 22, 2012, 11:01:41 PM »

Considering the approximate distance and the speed estimate, I have a feeling that there is a significant aluminium presence in the D-side wiring.

My neighbour, Gordon, & I have exactly 440 yards / 400 metres of copper D-side cabling and the attached image relates to his FTTC service. In particular, look at the data obtained from xdslcmd info --show (bottom right).

[attachment deleted by admin]
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Maturecheese

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #388 on: January 22, 2012, 11:10:17 PM »

27.7mb is the estimated speed I have been given since I looked into getting FTTC.  I would say that was from roughly sept last year and It's still the same estimate.  I will find out from Tuesday on as that's when I'm getting it installed.  Incidentally, and I've mentioned this on here before, my next door neighbours line has a lower attenuation than mine, around 10 db lower even though her line goes to the same pole and no doubt the same cabinet. She gets a faster speed than me because of this. I raised this with BT and I got the usual reply, my line was performing above the minimum level required so no action needed.  I just hope that the reason for the poor performance of my line up until now is before the cabinet and not after it as the fibre to the cabinet will solve that. (fingers crossed)

EDIT  If the line is Aluminium then I'll just have to put up with slower speeds but it doesn't explain the discrepancies between my line and next doors as surely if mine is aluminium so is hers.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2012, 11:14:21 PM by Maturecheese »
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burakkucat

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #389 on: January 22, 2012, 11:19:06 PM »

Quote
I just hope that the reason for the poor performance of my line up until now is before the cabinet and not after it as the fibre to the cabinet will solve that. (fingers crossed)

If, by saying "before the cabinet", you are suggesting an issue with the E-side cable then, yes, the fibre optic link will replace that. The phrase "before the cabinet" is somewhat ambiguous, because it all depends from which vantage point you are looking towards the cabinet . . .

 :fingers:
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