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Author Topic: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate  (Read 254035 times)

gouledw

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #360 on: October 30, 2011, 12:17:25 PM »

Im perfectly happy with speed I get considering distance to the exchange.  And it wouldn't have helped if I didn't have my friend in BTw ;) And the OR man said it was 7km, because thats how far it is between me and the nearest local village...
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waltergmw

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #361 on: October 31, 2011, 07:32:15 AM »

Hello GouleDW,

You are exceedingly lucky to have an attenuation as low as 80 dB if you have such a long line.
80 dB is just about the maximum value to obtain a stable connection as the laws of physics, even with probably the best modem, are difficult to circumvent.

Your master socket looks quite new and in dood condition.
You might try disconnecting the extension and using a cordless DECT phone with the base station sited well away from the master socket.
Using a short shielded twisted pair RJ11 modem lead sometimes has a marginal effect too.

Failing this a wireless link back to somebody closer to the exchange is probably the only other option.
E.g.  http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,9625.msg195241.html#msg195241

Kind regards,
Walter
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GunJack

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #362 on: November 01, 2011, 05:19:46 AM »

what happened to razpag, where'd he go, why ??  Have I missed something ??
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tuftedduck

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #363 on: November 01, 2011, 06:21:28 AM »

Razpaq decided that he could no longer contribute to the Forum, and requested that his account be deleted.
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GunJack

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #364 on: November 01, 2011, 02:41:54 PM »

Razpaq decided that he could no longer contribute to the Forum, and requested that his account be deleted.

That's a shame, his on-the-job knowledge was highly regarded :(

Don't suppose it was anything to do with his line management chain sussing who he was and applying pressure at all ???
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burakkucat

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #365 on: November 01, 2011, 06:08:23 PM »

Razpaq decided that he could no longer contribute to the Forum, and requested that his account be deleted.

That's a shame, his on-the-job knowledge was highly regarded :(

Agree / agreed. Most definitely. With Ezzer retired from the job and now emigrated, Mr Pag would be significant contributor to these fora.

Quote
Don't suppose it was anything to do with his line management chain sussing who he was and applying pressure at all ???

No. It was, unfortunately, the result of a personality clash in the early part of last September. :'(
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #366 on: November 09, 2011, 06:25:19 PM »

Hi Folks,

As they say, in a rather un-PC manner, "It's not over until the fat lady sings"
Well, I don't hear any singing just yet.

Another engineer's visit is now being arranged via Plusnet based upon the details in this thread:-
http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,10142.msg204066.html#msg204066

Watch this space (& that space) for any updates.

Without the "evidence" from the various stats collection & graphing scripts, I would simply not have reached this stage.
So, thank you again to those people, along with thanks to those who have provided me with other technical & factual details.

My connection looks rather "messy" from this afternoon's stats.
It's almost as though someone (unnamed for now, but I'm sure we all know who it was) scripted the production of stats collecting scripts, just in the nick of time  ;)


Paul.
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #367 on: November 15, 2011, 02:48:01 PM »

Hi Folks,

Update from this morning's Engineer's visit.

On arrival, the Engineer confirmed he had spoken with someone at his end so he had a rough idea of the issue(s).
That was a refreshingly good start.

He tested sync speed at the master socket with his JDSU & said it was 24Mb, attenuation about 22dB, & line length 1 km.
Earlier on this morning my modem had been reporting 25.3 Mb.

He wasn't too happy about my "high quality, high speed, twisted pairs shielded cable" that the original installation engineer had wired to the incoming pair (upstairs) to make the new downstairs master socket.
Neither was he happy that from the new master socket, it had been "back-wired" to create the upsairs extension (at what was the old master socket position).

He disconnected everything from the incoming pair upstairs, clipped on an adapter cable & tested sync speed there.
He said it was 30Mb, i.e. a 6 Mb increase from downstairs.
His deduction was that the shielded cable must have been the problem all along.
Hmmm........

When I reminded him that I been actually downloading att 33 Mb for the first month on the old 8c profile, he said that's how it works over D-side lengths similar to mine.
i.e. It starts off at high speeds & stabilises down after a while.
He also said it can take much longer than the 10 day trining period to find the right balance between stability & speed.
Hmmm...........That's not quite what Plusnet have told me, or what I have read in other forums.

Anyway, he went off to the cab to "check things" there.

On his return, he confirmed that 40 Mb was present at the cab.
He also confirmed that he had tested the speed after applying an attenuator, which resulted in 30Mb at the cab.
He did say that the attenuator had slightly more attenuation effect than my D-side cable's own attenuation.

He decided to rewire everything from the incoming supply.
Thinking he was going to route a cable through the house, I started clearing space for access.
The next thing was I heard him putting up a ladder & saw him fixing a new drop wire round the back of the other half of the semi-detached house.
He had already obtained approval from my neighbour to do this.

Not only did he provide new cable to the nearest pole, he got a cherry picker organised & took the cable right across the main road to the next pole (probably around 100m in total length).

He brought the new cable in through the back of my house (downstairs) & replaced the whole master socket.
He then reused my shielded cable to provide the connection back to my upstairs extension.

Sync speed was tested again.
I THINK he said it had gone up to 28Mb or so & that it was a lot better than when he had arrived, which proved it must have been the shielded cable causing the issue(s) all along.

I asked if he needed to get the BT Fibre Centre to reset my profile just to finish off the "repair".
He said that wouldn't be necessary any more as his engineers' notes will deal with that sort of thing.

He also said that undoubtedly, the 4 day complete loss of service had had an effect & that now everything was right again, it might gradually build up speed again.

He reconnected the modem & we had a quick look at the stats & tested the effect of using the phone.

The modem reported:-

DS Attainable Rate 33136 K
US Attainable Rate 5560 K
DS Sync speed 27400 K
US Sync speed 4999 K
DS SNRM 6.3 dB
US SNRM 7.1 dB
DS Output Power 12.2 dBmV
US Output Power 6.3 dBvM

CRC Errors US & DS 0
FEC Errors DS & US 0
HEC Errors DS & US 0

Picking up the phone & making a call had only a tiny effect upon SNRM, & didn't cause any errors.




In other words, everyting looks a bit better than of late, but still not what it was for the first month.

Was it the shielded cable, or the old cable/joints between the telegraph poles, or the master socket/filtering?
I will obviously monitor matters for the next few days/weeks.

After being reconnected for roughly 2.5 hours, SNRM has dropped (only a little) & DS CRC errors now total only 6, FEC errors 5 & HEC errors Nil.


Paul.

The graphs are attached......

Edit:
I musn't forget to add thanks to Plusnet (Alex R in particular), for not just fobbing me off with this matter.
It's not over until the fat lady sings, but at least I think I am now beginning to hear her loosening up her throat in readiness.


[attachment deleted by admin]
« Last Edit: November 15, 2011, 03:29:56 PM by Bald_Eagle1 »
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burakkucat

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #368 on: November 15, 2011, 06:25:35 PM »

Hmm.  :hmm:

Very interesting. So if the original installing engineer had not attempted to use what he had found in situ but had provided a new feed to a new NTE5/A, this whole saga may have been avoided.  :-\
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UncleUB

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #369 on: November 15, 2011, 07:01:30 PM »

Only need 5 more pages and this thread will be available on Kindle  :lol:
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #370 on: November 15, 2011, 10:05:37 PM »

Hmm.  :hmm:

Very interesting. So if the original installing engineer had not attempted to use what he had found in situ but had provided a new feed to a new NTE5/A, this whole saga may have been avoided.  :-\

Hmm indeed  :-\

I'm not too sure about that.
The original installing engineer did manage to get me over 30 Mb download speeds for a month, & everyone else that I am aware of on similar speeds has seen a few Mb increase toward the maximum out of the capped 40Mb service since the switch to profile 17a.

Although I was quite pleased to get a few metres of shiny new drop wire 10B & a new NTE5/A installed, along with the back-wiring removed, I have to say I was a little disppointed at the overall result.

My attenuation levels haven't changed much after today's visit & still seem very high.
I'm sure they can't have been that high when I was achieving the higher speeds or as one engineer has suggested in his personal & still unconfirmed theory, the service ran totally uncapped for the first month.

Is there still a HR or other issue somewhere in the copper?
Unless he did them at the cabinet, I am not aware that today's engineer carried out any TDR testing, so unfortunately I have no idea.
I meant to ask about that, but was distracted by my neighbour & unfortunately didn't come back to the subject by the time the engineer had packed up to leave.

We also spoke about potential issues on the E-side copper that is still used for my telephone.
The engineer said the E-side copper could not have any effect whatsoever on the D-side broadband, but that both E-side & D-side had been replaced during the previous "troubles" anyway.

Oh dear........


It's a long time since I saw such a low download speed.

Is the internet very busy tonight?
I tried a few different testers with very similar results.

I'll see how it looks during tomorrow, before perhaps trying a reboot.


Paul.


EDIT:

Immediate panic over:-



[attachment deleted by admin]
« Last Edit: November 15, 2011, 11:24:23 PM by Bald_Eagle1 »
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #371 on: November 15, 2011, 10:14:11 PM »

Only need 5 more pages and this thread will be available on Kindle  :lol:

& what a fantastic Christmas present that would be, to have a new Kindle, complete with a pre-installed dramatic tale full of mystery & intrigue, with twists & turns throughout, leaving the reader begging for more  ;D


Oooh! I see we are another page closer now.
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waltergmw

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #372 on: November 16, 2011, 08:35:09 AM »

Paul,

Very well done recording so much ("unapproved") information which may well be of great benefit to others.

Given the traumatic history on this line it is perhaps a pity that the engineer did not obtain the thicker dropwire 12 single pair cable.

Kind regards,
Walter
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #373 on: November 16, 2011, 09:11:02 AM »

Paul,

Very well done recording so much ("unapproved") information which may well be of great benefit to others.

Given the traumatic history on this line it is perhaps a pity that the engineer did not obtain the thicker dropwire 12 single pair cable.

Kind regards,
Walter

Hi Walter,

The engineer didn't bat an eyelid when I showed him the modem's printed out stats/graphs and its actual web page interface.
In fact he seemed reasonably interested in what was shown, as a comparison with his JDSU readings.

I didn't really bother too much about obtaining the JDSU readings now that I can obtain all the details I need directly from the modem.

We still aren't sure how the JDSU combines the connection's attenuation levels into a single value.
I think the modem's attenuation values are more relevant anyway (split over the 3 different frequency band plans) as it highlights which frequencies are being attenuated the most.
In my case, the higher frequency band is attenuated that much that I get Diddly Squat from it (unlike users with much better speeds / quality of connection / genuine distance from the cabinet etc.

Alex R mentioned that my DLM profile is unusually not now shown in Plusnet's records (yesterday anyway).
He thinks this may be due to the connection going through another training period now that it has been "repaired" again.

BYW, I see that SNRM has started to gradually creep back up again from its overnight low of 4.2 dB. It is currently 4.7 dB.

It might be worth a re-sync/re-boot later on if this continues?
(We have both previously noticed that I have needed to reboot the modem to force an increase in sync speed, despite DLM automatically reducing it on the fly).

Paul.
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waltergmw

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #374 on: November 16, 2011, 10:24:15 AM »

Hi Paul,

If you have the energy and the enthusiasm it would be well worth recording the JDSU comparison figures so you can "help" Openreach.
I know for a fact that at one time the engineers all knew that there was a reporting bug in the JDSU ADSL firmware.

If we carry on along this path the Kitz website might well become an enhanced training centre for BT openreach staff dealing with the mystical aspects of the VDSL implementation !

Kind regards,
Walter

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