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Author Topic: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate  (Read 254024 times)

Bald_Eagle1

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #345 on: October 13, 2011, 10:44:59 PM »

Shame on PlusNet. >:(

Shame on OpenReach. >:(

The time has come to make a written request (paper, envelope and stamp) to PlusNet's registered office for a copy of the engineering report that was dawn up as part of the documentation of the repair process from when OpenReach resolved your four days without any telephony or Internet service. :-X

Hi b*cat,

Plusnet's comment from the day the disconnection was reported:-

"NDT

Test Result: Fail - Fault located in local network
Description: FAULT - Earth Contact"


Just for my own "entertainment", I thought I would take a look at some old Plusnet documentation, just to see whether my memory had been playing tricks on me for the last 2 months, & to see how it compares to Alex's latest comment.

It might just be the way I was reading it because it appeared to contradict Alex's comment.
So I highlighted some of it in red & made it a bit bigger to help me see it a bit more clearly.

From my Value Fibre Welcome pack:-

Your first 10 days of broadband

At first we won’t know exactly how fast your broadband will be. During the first 10 days you’ll see your speeds
go up and down. You might even get disconnected from time-to-time. Don’t worry though, this doesn’t mean
you’ve got a problem, so please bear with it. This period is where we find the best balance between speed
and reliability. In a few days it’ll settle down for you.

Tip: You can use the Broadband Fault Checker from any Internet connection. This means you don’t
have to use your own, you can tell us about a fault from a friend’s house, the library, or from work.

Why am I not getting maximum speeds?
The maximum speed is the theoretical maximum possible based on ideal conditions. The length and quality
of the phone line between your house and your local exchange all affect the speeds you can get. The broadband network will adjust your line speed to be as fast as possible without becoming unreliable.

My broadband speed has suddenly dropped. Why?
A temporary fault on your telephone line, even some dodgy British weather can cause your speed to drop, as
we try to keep your connection stable. Once the problem has passed you’ll see your speeds go up again.If your speed doesn’t go back to normal after 3 days, try switching your modem or router off and on again, once a day for about 5 days. This forces the network to get your line’s highest speed.


Nope, that didn't work. It still seems contradictory to me.
It also seems strange for Plusnet to state they didn't know how fast my broadband would be, but now I have a genuine problem they refer me back to a pre-install estimate.

I also obviously incorrectly assumed that a month's stable & high speed connection was undeniable proof of what my connection could (& did) achieve & also proof that my line must have been in much better condition then.

Oh, well.....

Hmmmmm....................


Paul.
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burakkucat

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #346 on: October 14, 2011, 12:10:54 AM »

What do I find laughable in the PlusNet information that you have shown us, above?

Quote
The maximum speed is the theoretical maximum possible based on ideal conditions. The length and quality
of the phone line between your house and your local exchange all affect the speeds you can get.

As the service is FTTC, we must assume that the two sentences I have just quoted was written by a numpty. The seven words that I have underlined for emphasis . . . Oh, dear.  :lol:

Quote
NDT

Test Result: Fail - Fault located in local network
Description: FAULT - Earth Contact

That is the result of PlusNet's own testing. It would be interesting to read the report from the OpenReach engineer who fixed that fault -- because that is the start of all your troubles.

The other thing that still needs to be addressed is why the cabinet's DSLAM is only providing 22 Mbps downstream. Remember, 24 Mbps is the theoretical maximum for ADSL2+.  Until the DSLAM provides the full 40 Mbps downstream, you will only receive 55% of the actual speed your line is capable of supporting.  :o

Perhaps you should only pay PlusNet 55% of what they are charging you?  ;)
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #347 on: October 21, 2011, 01:36:22 PM »


I still have every faith that Plusnet will manage to get BT to resolve this simple issue:-

My connection was brilliant.
BT carried out some work, for someone, somewhere, that left me without a connection for 4 days.
My connection has been variously unstable & slow ever since its reinstatement.
BT and/or Plusnet keep referring to my pre-install estimated speed of only 14.6Mb, despite me achieving high speeds right up to BT's "accidental" disconnection.

Paul.



Hi Folks,


Not much has happened since my last chapter in this epic tale. Hence ny absence for a while.

However, in the last day or so, BT's & Plusnet's FTTC availability checkers have both started reporting increased estimated speeds for my connection.

The 14.6MB estimated speed that Plusnet keep quoting as the threshold before a fault can be raised with BT has now increased to 24Mb.

Unless someone moves the goal posts again, I will indeed refer to my new estimated speed in any communications (as I have indeed already done this morning).

Poor old Alex. I really do feel sorry for him.

Also, it appears that BT have now started to roll out the new 17a FTTC profile as a replacement for the original 8c profile.

I believe the new profile will be using even higher frequencies, which may be a bit of an issue for my heavily attenuated or speed capped connection.
However, I believe there will also be a "power" boost for the new frequencies to offset some of the line loss.

I don't yet know when/if I will be switched to the new profile, but I have seen evidence of a recent user's switch that has increased his speeds by quite a few Mb.

Of course, none of that addresses the fact that my connection was very good until BT engineers ruined it & now it is not so good (to put it incredibly politely).

Watch this space for the next installment.

TTFN.

Paul.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2011, 08:55:48 PM by Bald_Eagle1 »
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burakkucat

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #348 on: October 21, 2011, 07:26:03 PM »

Quote
Of course, not of that addresses . . .

sed 's/not/none/'  ;D
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #349 on: October 21, 2011, 08:56:33 PM »

Quote
Of course, not of that addresses . . .

sed 's/not/none/'  ;D

touché  :)
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burakkucat

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #350 on: October 22, 2011, 12:40:12 AM »

touché  :)

Ouch! Did someone just peck at my tail? :-\
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #351 on: October 22, 2011, 12:53:32 AM »

Ouch! Did someone just peck at my tail? :-\

Haha. Not at all.

Completely OT, but it appears that I have recently been made the guardian of my son's large black tom cat, as pets aren't allowed at his new home, & I am very "cat friendly".

Paul.

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jeffbb

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #352 on: October 22, 2011, 07:03:37 PM »

25TH anniversary coming up :lol:
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #353 on: October 28, 2011, 06:54:27 AM »

25TH anniversary coming up :lol:

& to celebrate the fact, BT have changed my FTTC profile from 8c to 17a, with a SLIGHT speed increase.
Still not resolved the high attenuation by the looks of it though (unless I still have a capped IP Profile).



So, it might now be time to speak with Mr. Rolls at Plusnet again.

Current stats attached

Paul.

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alexrolls

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #354 on: October 28, 2011, 01:27:08 PM »

Hi Bald_Eagle1,

Your support ticket has been updated. ;)
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #355 on: October 28, 2011, 05:28:48 PM »


Your support ticket has been updated. ;)


Cheers Alex,

& Likewise, I have updated your update.

I missed the chance to reboot the modem when SNRM was "good" this afternoon as I was a bit later than expected getting home from work. So I'll try it another day.

FYI, SNRM has dropped rapidly from almost 7dB, to just 4 dB in about 15 minutes or so.

No doubt that's due to all the women getting home from work & switching their cookers on to get tea ready for the man of the house, & switching the heating on to warm his slippers next to the radiator.
No sexism intended, but as a Yorkshire based lad, you must know where I'm coming from  ;)

Paul

P.S. I do hope that Alex isn't short for Alexandra.

P.P.S. I know it's not really, as we have spoken on the phone a couple of times.

P.P.P.S. The CRC, FEC & HEC error count has stayed very low for a change too (1273, 48, & 246 respectively over 11 hours or so connection time).
« Last Edit: October 28, 2011, 05:35:36 PM by Bald_Eagle1 »
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gouledw

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #356 on: October 30, 2011, 08:53:33 AM »

If this thread is about estimated speed on FTTC... Then what am I likely to get on my 9km line as I already get 2meg (stable) and the cabinet is 7km from me? And vDSL deteriorates the speed 4x quicker per km than adsl?

General Information

DSL Line (Wire Pair):   Line 1 (inner pair)
Downstream Rate Cap:   2272 kbps
Downstream Atten. at 300kHz:   81.0 dB
Uncancelled Echo:   -16.2 dB   Ok
VCXO Frequency Offset:   -34.3 ppm   Ok
Final Rx Gain:   29.9 dB   Ok
Excessive Impulse Noise:   0   Ok
Downstream Required Impulse Noise Protection:   4
Downstream Impulse Noise Protection:   0.00
Downstream Delay of Latency Path:   0.25 ms
Upstream Impulse Noise Protection:   0.00
Upstream Delay of Latency Path:   0.25 ms
Framing Mode   ATM
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #357 on: October 30, 2011, 11:14:25 AM »


If this thread is about estimated speed on FTTC... Then what am I likely to get on my 9km line as I already get 2meg (stable) and the cabinet is 7km from me? And vDSL deteriorates the speed 4x quicker per km than adsl?


Hi gouledw,

I am probably not the best placed person to accurately answer your question, as I started this thread, asking the same question, & still don't know the answer.
Nobody does, even BT!

What does BT's Infinity availability checker state as estimated FTTC speeds for your phone No., and/or Post code?

If the FTTC cabinet really is 7km distant, I would be very surprised if FTTC would be available for you at all.

From what I can gather, if it was available over that distance, I understand the speed would be somewhat similar (possibly worse) than ADSL, therefore not at all worth the increased cost anyway.

Where did you obtain your reported distances from the exchange & cabinet?


& 81.0 dB attenuation seems really high.
Are you really getting 2Mb throughput?

Paul.
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gouledw

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #358 on: October 30, 2011, 11:42:37 AM »

Hi Bald_Eagle1

Well its a long story, and I will not go into lengthy details.  But for the last 5 years we've had loads of trouble with noise on the PSTN.  And finally after switching ISP's 9 times last year we came back to BT Retail beginning of this year, I immediately e-mailed off an e-mail to the CEO of the group, who then intern passed it to his secretary.  Well they spent about 2 months just testing different parts of the cable to see what was wrong with it.  And in total about a third of the line was duffed (3km of it!).  So they set out replacing different parts of it in an attempt to cure the noise.  But in the end they found that no matter what part of the line they replaced there was always some part that was causing noise.  It didn't help the fact that it was all mostly DIG armoured cable.  But while they were upgrading the cable they decided it would be worth replacing each section of cable with some .9 cable as at different stages of the line there were around 50+ premises or so.  But ....... 7 months later we've had the job done and all the cable is the nice thick .9 stuff bar the last 200m to the house which is DROPWIRE12.  And its also been a combination of getting the right things replaced on my side of the NTE5.  I rid away with that useless NTE2000 filtered faceplate, and replaced it with an ADSL Nation, simply as it has better and more components in it (all to get a Thunderstorm the next week and a 20,000 volt surge) luckily all it fried was the router, so that was all completely fine.  And then having all the internal wiring replaced with a white external speck cable, and also having an RF3 junction box placed before the Master.  Getting new routers and playing about with different ones, and then eventually once we'd found the right one, because the 2700HGV was just syncing to high (3072kbps) on a 6dB margin and dropping out all the time, I turned to a fixed rate and also another Business Hub the 2701 in order to quell the speed a bit.

For instance my socket how I have tidied up, I don't know how much difference it makes, not a lot I would presume but maybe razpag can advise?

And also on the checker nothing comes up, and can't place an order under EcoPlus.

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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #359 on: October 30, 2011, 12:06:35 PM »

& I thought that I had experienced a few trials & tribulations!

If your line length is indeed 9km from the exchange, I would imagine you are currently achieving the best you can get.

My ADSL line length from the exchange was reported as 5283m, & I could only achieve around 1Mb until switching to FTTC.

Are you 100% certain that the nearest FTTC cabinet is no closer than 7km?

If so, there's not really anything I could suggest other than MAYBE a mobile phone broadband dongle, or satellite (really expensive?), but I'm not quite sure what their max download speeds are, or if like me you have poor mobile phone coverage, probably not worth trying anyway.

If you have read any of this epic thread, you will also have gathered that FTTC isn't exactly a fully understood technology (yet).
Either that, or it IS understood, but conveniently ignored on occasions.

Unfortunately razpag is no longer a member of this forum & his hands-on BT engineering installation experience & knowledge is very sadly missed.

I'm sure other members will drop by at some stage & will be able & willing to comment on your wiring photo though.

I'm sure he won't mind the mention here, but waltergmw has a great deal of experince with problematic lines & even assistance in getting connections into remote locations.


Paul.
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