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Author Topic: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate  (Read 253948 times)

Bald_Eagle1

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #150 on: August 22, 2011, 08:49:53 AM »

Just a thought, while I am sat here waiting for the BT engineer..............

My US Line Attenuation was 52.9 dB when tested via the JDSU.

This appears rather high when considering the relatively short distance to the cabinet.

The JDSU reported an US Max Rate of 5212K & an Actual Rate of 1996K.

My "Plusnet Value Fibre" package is restricted to "Up to 40 MB downloads" & "Up to 2 Mb" uploads.

Even with the more expensive Plusnet packages, the US is capped at 5 Mb, apart from for users that participated in Plusnet's Fibre Trials. I believe these users are allowed an US of up to 10 Mb.

I don't know how this "capping" of ISP packages works, but is it possible that restricting my upstream to 2 Mb will actually have the effect of increasing the Line Attenuation?

Paul.
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waltergmw

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #151 on: August 22, 2011, 09:11:50 AM »

Hi Paul,

I don't think that any capping restrictions have any bearing on the physical attenuation values.

I believe there are a few ISPs offering the two upstream rates as BT do, presumably because the wholesale costs are too high ?

Kind regards,
walter
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #152 on: August 22, 2011, 11:47:22 AM »

PSTN Engineer's Visit, Monday 22/08/2011

The PSTN Engineer arrived without calling in advance.

This was not a problem as I had gathered my "before" stats earlier on & I was just glad that it wasn't another missed appointment.

We discussed a brief summary of the issues (brief, me? YES IT WAS brief :lol:)

The engineer was very friendly, helpful & talkative, explaining everything he was doing as he went along (despite the lack of chocolate biscuits & bacon butties).
He did explain that as he was a CSE regarding PSTN only, he would not be able to check any broadband matters as he just did not have the equipment.
He did say though that if he managed to track down & repair a line fault, the broadband speed issues would probably be resolved aswell.

He did the usual "Quiet Line" stuff, & checked my internal wiring etc.

Then he whipped out his HAWK tester to do the all important TDR test.

He mentioned he could see "something strange" near the cabinet, but unfortunately I missed the chance to take a photo.

Before going down to the cabinet he disconnected my equipment & attached as Oscillator 87J to my master test socket (photo attached) & also hovered a small "gadget" near the master socket, power adaptors, & my shielded "extension" cable.
This "gadget" hummed/buzzed a little, but the engineer said averything seemed O.K. at my house.

Anyway, he came back from the cabinet & using words like "absolute stupidity", he explained that he had found that "someone" had "double jumpered" another D-side cable onto the fibre connection that my D-side was connected to, & that was probably the explanation for the broadband disconnections, crackly phone line etc.
He confirmed that he had disconnected the "extra/redundant" cable.
Has someone been stealing my broadband & will the next call to BT be that another end user has suddenly & completely lost their telephone and/or broadband services?

While we were chatting about this, the engineer brought up BT's Network Records on his laptop.
He showed me the actual route & confirmed the ACTUAL line length from the cabinet is only 820m & allowing a bit of slack for pole drops/connections etc. we should consider 850m as the absolute maximum line length.
I have a photo of the line route for my own reference, but the engineer asked me not to post it anywhere public.
As the engineer was so helpful. I will fully respect his request.

We ran a couple of speed tests along with the BT Performance test just before the engineer left.
The results were a slight improvement from earlier this morning, the BT Performance test showing an IP Profile of 21680 K, download speed of 20022 K & the acceptable range of speeds as 15175 K to 21680 K.

The engineer mentioned that for those on Infinity, following a line "repair", previously high speeds are usually restored almost instantly.
He advised me to request (via Plusnet) a Broadband Engineer to investigate if the speeds did not automatically increase within the next few hours.
He also confirmed that a 35 Mb IP Profile & 32-33 Mb download speeds looked "about right" for my ACTUAL line length & quality.

As he didn't have a JDSU & wasn't a broadband engineer, unfortunately the engineer was unable to confirm my line stats such as attenuation, Max Rate etc.
He was also unable to request BT to reset my profile for the same reason.

I did show the engineer a couple of comments from this forum (thanks razpag et al) & he also commented it was a "pleasure" to be speaking with an end user that had obviously researched & actually knew a bit about matters.

I'm not sure if he was just being polite though.
Personally I really hate it when "know all" clients start telling me all the technical detail they know about my job ;)

So, I have updated my Plusnet ticket & the engineer will update BT's records too, & time will tell whether or not I get my high speeds back again.

Watch this space :)


Paul.

[attachment deleted by admin]
« Last Edit: August 22, 2011, 11:55:31 AM by Bald_Eagle1 »
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razpag

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #153 on: August 22, 2011, 12:13:45 PM »

Quick reply. Great result. You will deffo get your max 33Meg speeds back, as the attenuation was to high before due to being 'double jumpered'. Why it's taken so many engineers to do what this chap did this morning is crazy ??
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #154 on: August 22, 2011, 12:32:38 PM »


Quick reply. Great result. You will deffo get your max 33Meg speeds back, as the attenuation was to high before due to being 'double jumpered'. Why it's taken so many engineers to do what this chap did this morning is crazy ??


Hmmmm,

Not today methinks.

Lost connection at 12:05.
Phone crackling again.
Phoned Plusnet. William could hear the crackling.
Back to square bloody one >:( >:( >:(

Paul.

EDIT:
If only I could see the modem stats I would have a bit of a clue as to what's going on!!!!!!
« Last Edit: August 22, 2011, 12:41:36 PM by Bald_Eagle1 »
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waltergmw

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #155 on: August 22, 2011, 12:38:57 PM »

Hi Paul,

Given that you have now been though the motions with the phone line engineer, I suggest you should insist that a fully skilled VDSL engineer is called in as soon as possible.

Kind regards,
Walter
« Last Edit: August 22, 2011, 02:09:23 PM by waltergmw »
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #156 on: August 22, 2011, 02:05:29 PM »

While the engineer was here this morning, we talked very briefly about potential REIN issues.
He admitted he wasn't too clued in REIN matters, but cited a couple of examples that he had heard of such as where an end users TV had caused them.

I really hope this isn't ultimately a REIN issue as, from what I can gather, it can takes many months to sort out (if you are lucky).

I have asked my immediate neighbour if she switched anything on at around the time of the disconnection & crackly phone today e.g. microwave, cooker, kettle (it was around lunch time & my modem / PC setup backs directly onto her kitchen).
She can't recall doing so (apart from her laptop to go & Google a few things), & as the weather is quite warm & sunny again, we can rule out central heating pumps etc.

If/when it happens again, I'll ask if she has just switched her laptop on again.

Everything apart from my Sky box (in standby mode) is/was switched off in my house too.

I can't find a definitive answer anywhere, so do any of you know whether or not the symptoms of REIN are similar to my issue(s), i.e. intermittent disconnections & an also intermittently crackly phone line?
I hope the answer is no, they are completely different, but....................


Paul.
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silversurfer44

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #157 on: August 22, 2011, 02:27:00 PM »

From my experiences in the electrical machinery repair industry, my experience with radios a bad or poor joint will give you the symptoms that you have. I know I'm not talking telecommunications here, but if one rubs two bare wires together briefly one will get a make and break situation. Thus putting a crackle on audio equipment.
Can you describe the crackling in a bit more detail please? Is it like a buzz or like I describe with the wire scenario?
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #158 on: August 22, 2011, 02:51:31 PM »


Can you describe the crackling in a bit more detail please? Is it like a buzz or like I describe with the wire scenario?


Hi silversurfer44,

It is definitely not at all like a buzz.

I would describe it more as a definite, but intermittent crackly sound, with an occasional clicking sound & maybe a slight hiss inbetween.

When it stops (it has never lasted for more than a couple of minutes or so & can go for quite a few days at a time with no symptoms at all), the phone line is perfectly silent again.

I am hoping it is just a dry joint somewhere in the cable, or even at the cabinet, (or something similar) that just needs to be tracked down & fixed.

Today's TDR test apparently didn't pick it up though, although the engineer did not retest via TDR after he had removed the "double jumpering".
I did ask, but he said it wouldn't need retesting as he had located & fixed the "fault".

FYI, the weather was warm, dry, & without any breeze when I experienced today's disconnection & crackly phone.
I have also experienced the same symptoms, but not as often, when it has been wet & cold.


Paul.
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silversurfer44

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #159 on: August 22, 2011, 03:00:44 PM »

Quote
but he said it wouldn't need retesting as he had located & fixed the "fault"
That was a fatal mistake. I suppose most of the visits ended on a similar note.
By your description of the crackle it does sound like a faulty line. I can say no more as I am not as telephone savvy as the other guys. No doubt they will be able to comment.
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #160 on: August 22, 2011, 03:10:52 PM »


That was a fatal mistake. I suppose most of the visits ended on a similar note.
By your description of the crackle it does sound like a faulty line. I can say no more as I am not as telephone savvy as the other guys. No doubt they will be able to comment.


It's the same in my game (building defects) that's why I asked the engineer about retesting.
Maybe/probably I should have been more insistent :doh:

If we have something "fixed", we either test it there & then e.g. rainwater ingress from a suspected defective cavity tray, retested by simulating rain with a hosepipe, or at least monitor it for a suitable period of time.

My towel is out now, & I'm almost ready to throw it in.

Paul.
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silversurfer44

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #161 on: August 22, 2011, 03:29:09 PM »

I learnt a long time ago to test and retest after a repair. With electrical type of gear a fault can develop at any time. If we repaired a piece of machinery and it broke down again within three days it was a severe reprimand, whether the fault was related or not. Now the last engineer seemed to do a good job but in my opinion he didn't finish the job because he didn't retest the circuit.
No doubt someone will start saying time on the job and all that. Well I say if the repair is not tested then the job is not complete, and if there is insufficient time for a test the job should be re-scheduled for as soon as possible.
I salute you for your tenacity Paul, but if I were in your position I would see it through. The person at the other end of the telephone would know that I was not satisfied with the service.
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #162 on: August 22, 2011, 03:52:08 PM »

I learnt a long time ago to test and retest after a repair. With electrical type of gear a fault can develop at any time. If we repaired a piece of machinery and it broke down again within three days it was a severe reprimand, whether the fault was related or not. Now the last engineer seemed to do a good job but in my opinion he didn't finish the job because he didn't retest the circuit.
No doubt someone will start saying time on the job and all that. Well I say if the repair is not tested then the job is not complete, and if there is insufficient time for a test the job should be re-scheduled for as soon as possible.
I salute you for your tenacity Paul, but if I were in your position I would see it through. The person at the other end of the telephone would know that I was not satisfied with the service.

One of my first queries with today's engineer was how long was he allowed to spend on this job.

His response was something like "Unlike the broadband engineers, I can spend as much time as necessary, within reason, until it's fixed. I spent 8 hours on a job recently, but fixed it in the end. The Estimated Come Back Time (ECBT) is just that, an estimate"

Apart from the retesting matter, he seemed really conscientious & actually commented on the lazy bas#%$3s that don't bother whether they actually fix things or not.

He even mentioned the only job he had to leave without a same-day "fix".
He couldn't stop thinking about it, & a day or so later he went to the exchange itself, located a "faulty" line card, had it replaced it & the problem was eventually permanently fixed.

Plusnet informed today me that they are rejecting this "fix" as not completed.
I get the feeling that this particular engineer will be genuinely "gutted" that his efforts today have not actually saved the day for me.

Stay tuned listeners for the next chapter. I've temporarily put the towel back in the cupboard.

Paul.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2011, 04:02:36 PM by Bald_Eagle1 »
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #163 on: August 22, 2011, 04:28:18 PM »

Quick Update:-

Another PSTN engineer has just phoned me to say he has spoken with this morning's engineer in connection with Plusnet's rejection of today's "fix".

He is actually on his way up to see me & "have a listen to my line" as I am typing this message.

He did say it might ultimately require a Broadband Engineer, but nothing ventured, nothing gained.
He also mentioned that he didn't have the right tackle to check my broadband "Line Insinuation".
Bless him  ;)

Paul.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2011, 04:32:29 PM by Bald_Eagle1 »
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silversurfer44

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #164 on: August 22, 2011, 05:11:02 PM »

I do sympathise with the engineer who thought he had fixed the fault, well he had fixed A fault but there may well have been another. He should have retested though. With the description of the crackling etc it does sound to me like a POTS fault and nothing to do with the the broadband. If that is the case then the fault has to be between your premises and the cab. Unless I am wrong about the possibility of a fault between you and the exchange.
Have you tried another phone? Just in-case there is a problem with your phone. That should not interfere with the broadband if the phone is on-hook.
Best of luck Paul, stay with it.
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