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Author Topic: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate  (Read 253936 times)

razpag

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #45 on: August 08, 2011, 06:20:16 PM »

Great result Mr Eagle. God willing, you will hopefully get an engineer who has been DSL faulting for some time, and is aware of simple broadband terminology akin to 'Interleaving' ?? ;)
Whilst making the brew and bacon butties for the engineer, it may be worth mentioning about suspected HR's and if he uses a HAWK,JDSU,EXFO,Tester 301C or, the antiquated Oscilloscope, for locating HR faults ?? This will hopefully see him perform this simple task, as it's surprising how many don't do this.

B*Cat, you couldn't drop the Queen a line and ask her where the blazes my OBE invitation has got to, could you ?? ;D
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #46 on: August 08, 2011, 07:11:43 PM »

@ razpag

Thanks for the all technical jargon such as CIDT, HR etc. It now appears that I actually know a bit about what I'm talking about.
Plusnet are one of the ISPs that have apparently chosen not to use CIDT themselves, but they are certainly asking BT to do it for me.

Don't you worry, I'll be asking for everything, including all the stats that the engineer can provide, that "proper" modems would provide for us.

BTW have you noticed the PM that I sent to you?

@ burakkucat

Bob hasn't actually responded to my own query (yet), but something has moved Plusnet's staff into turning this matter from a "No further action as everything is performing within specifation Sir" to a "We can definitely see an ongoing fault that will be escalated accordingly if it doesn't get sorted tomorrow" sort of issue.

@ all of you

I don't think I would have got this far without your help, I won't name names, to avoid embarassment, but I have also received quite a lot of help / information behind the scenes from some of you.

Once this matter is resolved (as I am now reasonably confident it will be), I will post a brief summary of the various issues & what actions are needed to get them resolved, as "others" may find them helpful in moving stagnant matters forward.

Paul.
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razpag

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #47 on: August 08, 2011, 07:22:06 PM »

Cheers B.E. 
Yeah, just seen your PM a few moments ago and have just responded.  :)

PS ... as I've said many times before, the people on here have an astounding base of knowledge, and there's not much (if anything) that can't be gotten to the bottom of, given time.  ;D ;D 
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #48 on: August 09, 2011, 01:47:21 PM »

God willing, you will hopefully get an engineer who has been DSL faulting for some time, and is aware of simple broadband terminology akin to 'Interleaving' ?? ;)
Whilst making the brew and bacon butties for the engineer, it may be worth mentioning about suspected HR's and if he uses a HAWK,JDSU,EXFO,Tester 301C or, the antiquated Oscilloscope, for locating HR faults ?? This will hopefully see him perform this simple task, as it's surprising how many don't do this.

It would have been good to have got any sort of an engineer, never mind one who knew what he was doing!
The appointment was for between 8:00 & 13:00.
Nobody has turned up.
Nobody phoned.
Plusnet have no idea when/if anyone will show up.

The bacon has now gone off & the bread has gone stale.

Surely my ISP & Bt haven't cocked things up between them (again)?
No, they are far to professional for that to have happened. It must be my fault >:(

Just to prove my memory isn't playing tricks on me, see the attached image.

Paul.

[attachment deleted by admin]
« Last Edit: August 09, 2011, 02:14:29 PM by Bald_Eagle1 »
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burakkucat

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #49 on: August 09, 2011, 03:36:54 PM »

Disappointing is an understatement. >:(
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #50 on: August 09, 2011, 03:43:16 PM »

Surely my ISP & Bt haven't cocked things up between them (again)?
No, they are far too professional for that to have happened. It must be my fault >:(

FFS!
BT ran a basic line test from the exchange this morning & have now decided that a home visit is needed to carry out "special" HR testing by a "special" engineer.
It seems like they forgot to get in touch with Plusnet to actually arrange the visit though.

Anyway, the visit is now re-arranged (or arranged for the first time according to BT) for tomorrow morning.

Although it shouldn't be needed, the nice man from Plusnet is going to confirm this afternoon that BT are actually going to send the "special" engineer to do the "special" tests tomorrow.
He is also going to double check again 1st thing in the morning.

Watch this space.
On second thoughts, don't bother - nothing ever actually happens.

@razpag - Type of engineer: GEA SF. Does that look like the code for the "special" engineer?
It is the same code as the one used for today's non-visit.

Paul.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2011, 04:00:50 PM by Bald_Eagle1 »
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burakkucat

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #51 on: August 09, 2011, 04:07:48 PM »

Perhaps Mr Pag has been seconded to your area! ;) (Wishful thinking, most likely.)

However, it does seem as though you will be visited by an OR SFI engineer -- which is most definitely movement in the correct direction.

Perhaps you would consider printing out this entire thread and allowing the engineer to read it when she/he arrives. As is so often the case, the actual "foot soldiers" who perform all the good work are the last to be provided with all the relevant information.
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #52 on: August 09, 2011, 04:22:50 PM »

Perhaps you would consider printing out this entire thread and allowing the engineer to read it when she/he arrives. As is so often the case, the actual "foot soldiers" who perform all the good work are the last to be provided with all the relevant information.


@ burakkucat

I printed it this morning, just in case, & I'll print any updates to it tomorrow morning.

With all the other stuff I have collated, I'll soon need another lever arch file (not that I've become obsessed or anything).

Paul
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waltergmw

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #53 on: August 09, 2011, 04:36:52 PM »

Hi Paul,

Ordinary mortals are not allowed to know BT fault numbers but you can always quote the Service ID and ask if the engineer can see any records there.

I've tried several times to get BT Openreach to associate a real local human being to a specific fault so that the end user can contact the engineer or possibly the control involved. (I have trained one local engineer to ring me up whenever he's called to a particular area as he knows I've probably been involved ! I can then brief him on the symptoms and we all get along very well. I also know the numbers of other locals so I can ask around for others having trouble.)

It seems unreasonable that the end user could well be wasting their holiday leave, or perhaps their earning time, whilst waiting for a non event. Given that we're talking about a comms company it wouldn't stretch the imagination to much to have a set of pseudo mobile text numbers that could be assigned specifically for faults and have them auto-directed to the person responsible. First thing on shift all faults would be pointed at control and as each engineer logs in to his / her next fault the number is redirected. If text were used the lines won't become overburdened.

I fully expect RP to ever-so-politely tell me to get lost and not to attempt the suggest real practical ways of "improving the customer experience". However if we could get the matter addressed RP would not be facing the front end of a 12 bore for every other visit he makes. (Some exaggeration here !)

Kind regards,
Walter
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #54 on: August 09, 2011, 04:58:14 PM »


It seems unreasonable that the end user could well be wasting their holiday leave, or perhaps their earning time, whilst waiting for a non event.

I fully expect RP to ever-so-politely tell me to get lost and not to attempt the suggest real practical ways of "improving the customer experience". However if we could get the matter addressed RP would not be facing the front end of a 12 bore for every other visit he makes. (Some exaggeration here !)


Thankfully, I do still have internet acces & am able to work from home via VPN (although I have another ticket on the go regarding Plusnet's possibly incorrect VPN traffic management, currently suspended until this issue has been sorted once & for all).

I won't be shooting the engineer as it clearly will not be his/her fault.

I work for a very large construction related company, dealing with responsive repairs (amongst other things).
Our "customers" are officially encouraged to contact our service desk regarding urgent works, but off the record, I am more than happy for my team of surveyors to take mobile phone calls directly, to save time.
We cover a large patch & many times it saves them coming back to the office just to find out they have to go back to where thay have just come from, & in many cases, they can simply organise a relevant contractor to deal with the problem anyway.

I have been dusting off the cartridges though for as sure as eggs are eggs, "someone" will be in the firing line.

My priority is to get things fixed first though.

Paul
« Last Edit: August 09, 2011, 08:36:31 PM by Bald_Eagle1 »
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razpag

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #55 on: August 09, 2011, 06:17:37 PM »

Surely my ISP & Bt haven't cocked things up between them (again)?
No, they are far too professional for that to have happened. It must be my fault >:(

FFS!
BT ran a basic line test from the exchange this morning & have now decided that a home visit is needed to carry out "special" HR testing by a "special" engineer.
It seems like they forgot to get in touch with Plusnet to actually arrange the visit though.

Anyway, the visit is now re-arranged (or arranged for the first time according to BT) for tomorrow morning.

Although it shouldn't be needed, the nice man from Plusnet is going to confirm this afternoon that BT are actually going to send the "special" engineer to do the "special" tests tomorrow.
He is also going to double check again 1st thing in the morning.

Watch this space.
On second thoughts, don't bother - nothing ever actually happens.

@razpag - Type of engineer: GEA SF. Does that look like the code for the "special" engineer?
It is the same code as the one used for today's non-visit.

Paul.

OMG !!! I can really only  comment that this has been shambolic in the way it has been handled. My thoughts are, your fault (For some reason) has been passed to the Frames Staff as a FRSFI task. This consists of the Frames engineer checking the 'circuit mapping' (making sure you are on the correct equipment ports) and that's pretty much it. Well gone are the days, when they had a 'Presto tester' to check for bog-standard synch and errors. So once the mapping checks out, the job is 'kicked' to us.

GEA SF = Generic Ethernet Access Special Fault. In other words, a Fibre Broadband fault.

Although my wife thinks I'm 'special', when it comes from the lips of others, I can't help but think they're perhaps teasing me ??  ;D

Never mind the riots, I'm going to be praying for you to receive an engineer tomorrow Mr Eagle.  ;D
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razpag

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #56 on: August 09, 2011, 06:42:43 PM »

Hi Paul,

Ordinary mortals are not allowed to know BT fault numbers but you can always quote the Service ID and ask if the engineer can see any records there.

I've tried several times to get BT Openreach to associate a real local human being to a specific fault so that the end user can contact the engineer or possibly the control involved. (I have trained one local engineer to ring me up whenever he's called to a particular area as he knows I've probably been involved ! I can then brief him on the symptoms and we all get along very well. I also know the numbers of other locals so I can ask around for others having trouble.)

It seems unreasonable that the end user could well be wasting their holiday leave, or perhaps their earning time, whilst waiting for a non event. Given that we're talking about a comms company it wouldn't stretch the imagination to much to have a set of pseudo mobile text numbers that could be assigned specifically for faults and have them auto-directed to the person responsible. First thing on shift all faults would be pointed at control and as each engineer logs in to his / her next fault the number is redirected. If text were used the lines won't become overburdened.

I fully expect RP to ever-so-politely tell me to get lost and not to attempt the suggest real practical ways of "improving the customer experience". However if we could get the matter addressed RP would not be facing the front end of a 12 bore for every other visit he makes. (Some exaggeration here !)

Kind regards,
Walter

Walter

Seriously mate, I have no qualms with anybody trying to suggest 'ways to better the EU's experience', as it would hopefully make my one-to-one contacts with the EU's slightly more civil than some we come across.  ;D As I say, I completely understand the level of frustration the EU has to deal with.

However, the mano-y-mano scenario you propose may work well in tiny rural patches, and I dare say it is something my colleagues working in the wilds of Scotland actually employ. It's not really frugal or business-like though, to try and roll-out a 'hap-hazard' way of EU interaction. I don't mean that in a cynical sense btw Walter, I mean it's too open to abuse if you like ?? I'm finding it hard to put into words what I mean, but when the higher echelon implement a 'system of use', or a methodology, it has to be in the guise of one cap fits all.

There could be all sorts of cries of 'foul play' if we were to use your suggestion Walter, and I reiterate, I'm on your side here. :)
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #57 on: August 09, 2011, 07:46:17 PM »


Never mind the riots, I'm going to be praying for you to receive an engineer tomorrow Mr Eagle.  ;D


@ razpag

They do say that patience is a virtue.

Under the circumstances, I think I have been quite patient so far.
This has been going on & off for over a month now. Although I imagine a lot of users have to wait a lot longer than this.

However, I am now becoming slightly less virtuous as each day goes by.

On the off-chance that physical line "faults" cannot ever be pin-pointed due to their intermittent nature (I have not had a single disconnection or crackly phone line since Friday), is it at all likely that the whole length of copper from the cabinet to the home will be replaced (at no expense to the end user)?

I would guess that the sheer expense would more or less rule that out.

And, just for the record, would the engineer be able to provide me with the full set of stats that are currently hidden away in the modem's locked/disabled interface such as sync speed, attenuation, interleaving, SNRM etc.?

I would also dearly love to know the "reported" copper line length from the cabinet to my master socket, now that I can ignore the fibre length from the exchange to the cabinet.
Do you know if that can be gleaned from the JDSU or whatever the engineer uses?

BTW, I like the Mr. Eagle references - much better than Baldy :)

Paul.
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razpag

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #58 on: August 09, 2011, 08:09:24 PM »


Never mind the riots, I'm going to be praying for you to receive an engineer tomorrow Mr Eagle.  ;D


@ razpag

They do say that patience is a virtue.

Under the circumstances, I think I have been quite patient so far.
This has been going on & off for over a month now. Although I imagine a lot of users have to wait a lot longer than this.

However, I am now becoming slightly less virtuous as each day goes by.

On the off-chance that physical line "faults" cannot ever be pin-pointed due to their intermittent nature (I have not had a single disconnection or crackly phone line since Friday), is it at all likely that the whole length of copper from the cabinet to the home will be replaced (at no expense to the end user)?

I would guess that the sheer expense would more or less rule that out.

And, just for the record, would the engineer be able to provide me with the full set of stats that are currently hidden away in the modem's locked/disabled interface such as sync speed, attenuation, interleaving, SNRM etc.?

I would also dearly love to know the "reported" copper line length from the cabinet to my master socket, now that I can ignore the fibre length from the exchange to the cabinet.
Do you know if that can be gleaned from the JDSU or whatever the engineer uses?

BTW, I like the Mr. Eagle references - much better than Baldy :)

Paul.

Ha ha , hadn't thought about the 'Baldy' angle. ;D

I think you've sort of answered your own question regarding swopping the whole cable out, due to intermittency. Not a Jack Pallance i'm afraid. As I've hinted at in other threads, Openreach have to employ a one cap fits all process, can you imagine the price of replacing lengths and lengths of cable nationwide on the whim of an engineer ??? It's a continual scrap to get our planners to 'cough up' even when we do fault it down to a particular length. They too are micro-managed to the hilt over capital spend.

Hands up time regarding the 'Full set of stats' you mention ?? I've never attended a FTTC repair, but from the installation side of the fence, which is exactly the same TBH, he will be able to provide you with the usual stats that are of interest, ie- Attenuations, SNR's,Synch speeds .... etc.

As you were, Mr Eagle.  ;D
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burakkucat

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Re: FTTC - Distance from the Cabinet - Realistic speed estimate
« Reply #59 on: August 09, 2011, 10:18:31 PM »

Suggestion -- When the engineer plugs in his/her JDSU, EXFO or what-not, why not have your camera to hand and ask if you could photograph the relevant screens, so that you have a record of the current statistics?
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