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Author Topic: Three routers, 4 RJ45 cables, 1 test socket, and a 12db SNR NM dumped on my line  (Read 17864 times)

2pods

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I've been with Zen for about 5 or 6 years, and have been very happy. However, just before our exchange was due for 21N conversion, I had a few drops but nothing to worry about. Post conversion I had to buy a new router (as my old Draytek wasn't adsl2+ compatible), so I bought a Netgear DGN2200. which synced OK, ran OK, but then came the drops. (incidentally my snr was around 3.0), did the usual checks, phoned Zen who said try different filters (yes), different cables (yes), and a different router (first I tried a TP Link, which gave me a higher sync of 16001, but with a NM of 0.8 !).

Replugged Netgear back in syncing at 15248kbps with margins between 3.1 and 4.6. There were more disconnections, but everything stayed the more or less the same . After phoning Zen, I plugged into the test socket as advised and achieved 17326 kbps with 3.2db (this was with a ten foot RJ45 cable, which Zen have deemed unsuitable.).

Anyway, I had to try one more router according to Zen, then they would involve BT.
So on with the Belkin. Sync was @ 15326Kb with 8db NM and still drops. After phoning I was treated to a lot of stuff. Most of which I knew, but generally saying the same stuff as before, but refusing to acknowledge that the line had had periods of stability before lumping a great big dod of 12db SNR on it !
It could be the socket I use in an upstairs room, but there were drops even when I was plugged into it via the long cable.

For anyone I haven't bored to death yet, The line comes in by the front door, goes into a lozenge shaped box, comes out as a skinnier cable than even the disreputable RJ45 cable, thence to the master socket...which has an iPlate fitted which is good.....but has my upstairs connection wired into it by BT because I had an Home Hiway box up here. So if it's this that's causing the trouble, I don't think I'm allowed to touch the master socket anyway (though I did have to fix the cable between the lozenge boxes a few years ago, as it had come away).

So would somebody put me out of my misery and have a look at these extracts from the routers' (note plural) logs. If not it's OK, at least I had a rant.

Ta,
Peter
« Last Edit: August 06, 2011, 04:03:51 PM by 2pods »
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Peter

burakkucat

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Hello Peter,

Another sorry tale. :( 

I yet haven't read your attachment to the post but as you are aware (I'm sure :) ) that a picture is worth a thousand words, please photograph both the exterior and interior of: (1) the lozenge shaped box (2) the NTE5/A (master socket) (3) the upstairs extension socket and then display them in this thread.

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jeffbb

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Hi
My first thoughts are that the SNR margin was lower than normal ? expect to normally be about 6db.
Also concerned that
quote After phoning Zen, I plugged into the test socket as advised and achieved 17326 kbps with 3.2db (this was with a ten foot RJ45 cable, which have deemed unsuitable.).

This significantly better synch rate even with 10ft RJ45 cable . I suggest that its worth checking your internal connections
http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/socket.htm
 

Can you also run  Routerstats,to be found at http://www.vwlowen.co.uk/internet/files.htm a very usefull trouble shooting tool!

If you router/routers are compatible then run some graphs SNR margin /synch rate  for a few hours and post here.

Personaly I would stick to one router during trouble shooting . You have shown the problem with all of them.
Regards Jeff
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zen user

razpag

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Welcome to the wonderful world of 21CN !!!

Unfortunately, 21CN  (due to being double the frequency bandwidth of 20CN) is a far more unstable circuit than that which is 20CN. Problems you won't have had before will come brimming to the surface due to much more 'noise' on the bandwidth.

You can A) Try a self-fix, by getting co-op from the most knowledgable broadband forum around (No, not DSL Zone --- I mean this one  ;D). Or, B) Ask your Service Provider to raise an SFI task for an Openreach engineer to visit to bring your installation up to the standard required to carry 21CN products. You may also get a SSFP fitted as well, which are far better than the i-plate imo.

I personally attend roughly 3 SFI tasks on a daily basis, on a fair-sized urban-rural patch. I can generally get an increase in speed and provide enhanced stability by visiting the premises, and/or performing Network Enhancing duties between the exchange and the EU's house. All SP's are aware that the switch from PSTN/Fixed-Rate DSL/20CN DSL to 21CN DSL brings with it it's problems, and creating an SFI task shouldn't be a problem. HTH. ;D
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2pods

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Thanks for all the replies  :)

I'll try and sort the router stats etc tomorrow,along with photos etc.

@razpag would this be my ISP, or BT ? If it's my ISP, they really don't want to know beyond sticking  the 12db SNR and telling me to phone BT.
....and I know about Kitz's forum. I've been lurking a lot recently  :blush:
Thanks everyone
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Peter

razpag

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Yes, it would be your ISP. I'm going from memory here, which is never a good thing, but I'm sure Zen has pretty good support services from what I've read ? I would have thought raising an SFI with them should be relatively painless ? Like I say, I may have Zen mixed up with another ISP.

To add to that, I obviously don't know the contract you've entered into with them, but a bit of hinting about taking your business elsewhere may not go amiss ???? If, as you quote, you've been lurking around the periphery of this site for a while, you'll have gleaned that persistence is the key to success with all ISP's. ;D

Ring them asap. The more times you make contact, the bigger your 'file' becomes and the better chance of an SFI visit.
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roseway

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Zen's support is very good. I doubt you'll need to take any extreme measures to get them motivated. :)
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  Eric

tuftedduck

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And you could start with a PM to member Azzaka who is a frequent visitor here and who is a Zen staff member.
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jeffbb

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Hi
For all that there is still the issue of better synch rate using the test facility. This does point to some internal problem.
It would be better if that could be resolved first.
Personally I have found ZEN Very good on the one occasion when I had a fault and BT needed chasing .

Regards Jeff
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zen user

2pods

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Taking pics even as we speak.
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Peter

2pods

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Here we go. The path is as follows. the lines enters the premises via this GPO box shaped like a lozenge



proceeds downwards via this wire


To this box




Goes into the master socket with iPlate




Coming out of the master socket via a hard wired BT extension to where they exchanged the HH box for a socket where my router is.




Please excuse the socket mankiness. Mrs 2pods will be punishing me later  :police:
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Peter

burakkucat

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I can accept the condition of each socket and junction box but it might be best to dust and wipe them all over with a damp cloth before SWMBO notices and then issues you with a directive. ;)

Thank you for those pictures. They definitely help, as I can see one defect straight away. The two-pair cable (four wires) that connects the first junction box (lozenge shaped) to the second (rectangular shaped) has been connected wrongly -- currently there are "split legs". :( Notice that the blue/white and orange/white wires have been used? It should be either the blue/white and white/blue OR the orange/while and white/orange wires that are used.

Before I suggest what I would do if that was in my house, I need to ask for two further pictures please. Go back to pictures 7, 8 & 9 and you will see that unfortunately I am unable to deduce the wiring to/from the face plate. Look closely and you will see that the iPlate can be completely moved out of the way (it has a slot in its bottom surface), so you should have no trouble photographing how the wires connect to the face plate. For the other necessary picture, please unscrew the back panel of the NTE5/A from its backing box and photograph the wires connected to it. ::)

And, finally -- do you have anything else connected to your telephone line? Sky box? Alarm? Another socket that you haven't yet mentioned?
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HPsauce

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"split legs"
Indeed, but for how far? The pics suggest ony a few feet which wouldn't really matter.
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burakkucat

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Quote
The pics suggest ony a few feet which wouldn't really matter.

b*cat (a perfectionist) gives a long meaningful stare in HPs direction. According to a certain supermarket's slogan: "Every little helps." :P
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waltergmw

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Perhaps what concerns me more is that the incorrect wiring demonstrated strongly suggests that the perpetrator did not have much experience with telephony wiring.
My question is how much more of a birdsnest is there lurking around the property ?

Kind regards,
Walter
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