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[srt]

A bit more info - if its not got you all yawning
The original BT high level bb tech chap phoned me on Saturday to advise he was now back (been on leave) and was very grateful for my supplied graphs and could see that there were issues  along with time related spikes etc:)
He also felt I had done about as much as could reasonably be expected and that it appeared not to be associated with my household. He also went on to say that he was monitoring the hh3 which I have now connected as they requested and fully expected it to drop sync as before
He plans calling me sometime today to update me on what if anything might be done. He did intimate that OR were still implicated with addressing the issue and did not seem overly pleased that they had not actually followed up on the history of my circumstances
Maybe its the begining of the end or the end of the begining

[srt]

Ok - -another OR chap called today and was again unaware of history
I contacted the BT tech guy and he was also not impressed. He had a word with the engineer and I am not sure what was said.
The engineer and I discussed REIN and he listened around with his am radio. He did detect some noise which he felt was REIN and this was associated with my downstairs lighting circuit. When that circuit was switched of at the mains it dissapeared
He felt it could build up and cause the spike but I am not really qualified to know if thats possible. The circuit consists of a number of downlighters in the kitchen but these were all switched off. When lights were switched on the noise increased. Anyway I am bamboozled by all of this
I think maybe I should run RS ( I was told its ok to use the business hub again ) with the light circuit off to see what happens so will get back to report unless someone thinks differently?
TBH - - I thought I had all power off before but I need to go back and try again
ps. The engineer felt the line tested ok

[srt]

Back again
Well I am running RS with the light circuit off and the flippin thing dropped again
These wer off the router and the short but sweet RS graph:

DSL Details
Modem Type:    Built in modem - ADSL
DSL Line (Wire Pair):    Line 1 (inner pair)
Current DSL Connection:
   Down    Up
Rate:    3584 kbs    448 kbs
Max Rate:    3484 kbs    692 kbs
Noise Margin:    -1.0 dB    13.0 dB
Attenuation:    57.6 dB    31.5 dB
Output Power:    18.9 dBm    12.5 dBm

Protocol:    G.DMT Annex A
Channel:    Interleaved
DSLAM Vendor Information    Country: {46336} Vendor: {IFTN} Specific: {48753 }
ATM PVC:    0/38

Rate Cap:    3484 kbs
Attenuation @ 300kHz:    57.6 dB
Uncanceled Echo:    -18.6 dB    Ok
VCXO Frequency Offset:    -50.3 ppm    Ok
Final Receive Gain:    29.9 dB    Ok
Excessive Impulse Noise:    0    Ok



Collected for 1:33:06
   Since    Current    Current    Time Since
   Reset    24-hr int.    15-min int.    Last Event
ATM
Last Event
Cell Header Errors    6003    6003    5989    0:00:00
Loss of cell Delineation    5712    5712    5710    0:00:00

DSL
Link Retrains:    0    0    0    0:00:00
DSL Training Errors:    1    1    0    1:32:51
Training Timeouts:    0    0    0    0:00:00
Loss of Framing Failures:    0    0    0    0:00:00
Loss of Signal Failures:    0    0    0    0:00:00
Loss of Power Failures:    0    0    0    0:00:00
Loss of Margin Failures:    56    56    56    0:00:00
Cum. Seconds w/Errors:    114    114    105    0:00:00
Cum. Sec. w/Severe Errors:    102    102    102    0:00:00
Corrected Blocks:    27879    27879    6988    0:00:00
Uncorrectable Blocks:    5994    5994    5981    0:00:00
DSL Unavailable Seconds:    28    28    0    1:32:37

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[Ezzer]

Some REIN sources can be temperature dependant. that is either it produces dsl affecting REIN when cold but once it warms up the REIN changes or dissapears or it becomes a problem once it warms up.

A whole block in a military establishment was reguarly loosing dsl. Took ages to pin down. the problem was caused by a TV, fine for the 1st half hour it was on, after that here comes the REIN again !

So just to make a difficult thing to find even harder to locate, just looking at the difference straight from switching it on dosn't always reveal itself its the differnce when you turn something off thats the key.

In fact it's dawned on me that I dont think I ever mentioned this little point before. I had taken it so much for granted when I've been hunting REIN. (Err Kitz ! can you update the REIN page a bit please, oops sorry !  )

[razpag]

Just to add if I may, there are also a heck of a lot of 'False positives' with REIN tracing. With the 444B official tester, I've had the needle go 'full scale deflection' (ie-full on REIN), when near energy saving light bulbs, also most Hub/Router power transformers give a FSD if you go near enough to them, same with set-top boxes. These items are all listed in our 'most likely sources of REIN' handouts, but as I say, they can also give fasle-positives.

The way I make dead sure is to check with the van radio when turning equipment off.

[Ezzer]

Oh yes Razpag false positives all over the place. You'll build up a mental store of noises to ignore and some to partialy dismiss. And you'll get some which the moment you hear you'll say "Oh hello, gotcha !"

For someone trying this on their own line with no previous experience its so difficult.

Glad to hear your van radio works at the right frequency, seemed so many of the guys I worked with had vans that didn't ? If you want be really over the top then try a day with the van radio at 606khz. You hear dsl emmited when you go under d/w's as well as the plethora of other stuff around us out there. 

[razpag]

Oh yes Razpag false positives all over the place. You'll build up a mental store of noises to ignore and some to partialy dismiss. And you'll get some which the moment you hear you'll say "Oh hello, gotcha !"

For someone trying this on their own line with no previous experience its so difficult.

Glad to hear your van radio works at the right frequency, seemed so many of the guys I worked with had vans that didn't ? If you want be really over the top then try a day with the van radio at 606khz. You hear dsl emmited when you go under d/w's as well as the plethora of other stuff around us out there.

Hi Ezzer

Yeah, thats the frequency I tune into on the van radio (well, 612Khz  ). As i'm sure you're more than aware, on receiving a REIN task, it's off with Radio 2 and on with 612Khz MW whilst driving to the EU's. As you say, REIN will be picked up in quite  a few places as you drive along, but when I've localised the area then the actual equipment, I go back to the van and drive around the same area to make sure it's gone. Call me mad, but I then switch back on the equipment emitting REIN and have another drive around to make sure it's back. Belt and braces so to speak. 

What I hope I never have to attend to, is SHINE. How on Gods green earth one is meant to localise that, I do not know ??!!!!

Apologies to srt for a slight deviation.

[srt]

raz - no worries but you both lost me - sort of over my head

So if the power is off to the light circuit - then the cause of the drop is elsewhere?
I need to leave it off longer to confirm?

[Ezzer]

sorry listening to radio5 hence 606 not 612  Opps !

Yeah I used the same technique, although I would normaly fall back to my hand held radio to confirm the noise. Miss that radio, it was good one. An Eton. Wind up charger, mains charger for the internal rechargable battery as well as 3 aa batteries and outputs so you could use the wind up charger to charge other stuff including all the mobile batteries you could think of, except the one supplied by work 

Also a manual dial to tune rather than digital tuning so its easyer to check across a range of frequencies. I would keep the hand radio by me when using the van radio as you could orientate the radio/antenna to better locate an emmiter.

Now you got your 444b did you get just the rubber duck antenna or a directional one as well ?

[Ezzer]

@ SRT

What your looking for is if a suspected noise ties in with a particular source. So you turn the suspected source on and off to see if you get a change in the noise you can hear. If there is then recheck the dsl sync and or stats to compair with and without the noise.

Some sources produce the interference only at the moment the're switched on and dies off or after a while once its warmed up. So thngs get a bit fuzzy in detecting was it that item or not ? A clearer was of hearing this is when you switch the item off and do you hear a change in the suspect noise then.

Usually if you've found the REIN source then its quite obvious by listening to the radio and switching the source on and off. Its just occasionaly the source dosnt want to play fair and the moment you switch it on its as if its going "No, not going to do it now !........Oh good he's not paying attention now....BBBUUUUZZZZ!"

[razpag]

Just the rubber duck Ezzer.

srt .... I haven't really 'got into' this thread as others appear to be doing just fine giving info. The only bit I will add is that the OR engineer may not have had 'history' of the circuit, as just of late, BTw seem to be struggling maintaining the RRT data logs. It's from this data that we get an idea of what time and duration that REIN appears to be affecting the circuit.

Further investiagations may mean knocking on neighbouring properties and asking if they are having the same problem, and also loooking into their RRT data. Eventually a picture develops.

Anyhows, i'll bow out now. 

[Ezzer]

Data logs ? what data logs ? I never got any data logs.

 It was bad enough having our WOOSH taken off us because we were openreach not wholesale. then told our profile didn't warrent it, we're to use the helpdesk. Then when I reapplied stating I did REIN. "What has that to do with it" 

Data logs ! that would have made life so much easyer.

Sometimes I would turn up and the customer had their own logs printed out. And on one occasion I saw the logs and reconised them from a thread on this forum. (it was the managers lcd monitor and knocked out 4 other units on the same estate. I could make it dissapear by touching any part of the telehone cabling or their patch panel, annoying when that happens)

[razpag]

PM'd ya.

[srt]

Ezzer - - When I say "switched off" as in the lighting circuit -  I am referring to the mains board not the wall light switch.

Something like a half hour after the circuit was switched off I got a nose dive in noise and lost sync and needed to re-boot the router.
The attached is graph of what its been doing all night since powered off just before 15.00.
But to confirm - - - - If this light circuit is switched off for several hours and I still get a drop out then its not the culprit?
I am shutting off pc now but will go back to my "trials" tomorrow.
I am hoping the guy from BT tech gives me some help in getting some further investigation as I am really not even an amateur in this and really need some on the spot expert - - not that you guys arent of course and I really value your time and patience
Cheers.

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[srt]

OK - -todays graph with the light circuit OFF all day.
Is it still a potential REIN source
My BT tech chap called and agreed that if the line dropped then he would request a REIN team investigation
I know I did not lose sync but something hit the noise margin and if the line was better adjusted with noise at the regular 6db I suspect I would have lost sync?
Any views
Cheers.

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