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[Archie]

The 834 GT Has  a Broadcom chipset

Thanks, jeffbb.  I will make a note.

Archie.

[razpag]

@ RP,

(Sorry to Archie as this is a little off topic)

I'd very much like to know your views on the differences between the TDR and the screen you can call up on the JDSU ADSL test instrument. (Assuming that you are talking about a different instrument and not the JDSU.)

Kind regards,
Walter

Walter, my views will be akin to every single OR engineers views, on the different TDR meters/function available.

When we had (some still do by the way) HAWK's or 301's for testing on TDR, we could be pretty sure where the HR was. Fast forward to our latest, more modern testers (JDSU and EXXFO) and they are great on DSL functions, but god-damned awful on TDR functions.

A HR will present itself on a TDR by showing a 'peak' on the tracer, or a 'trough' for a short-circuit. The 2 meters I mentioned are great at pin-pointing these types of fault condition. The modern ones are terrible at it, unless it is a 'full on' HR or SC.

Give me the old testers any day for this type of fault.

[Archie]

There are two threads over in the forum on the ThinkBroadband site, for which I'll post the URLs --

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/technical/3854118-bt-what-a-bunch-of-idiots.html
http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/aaisp/f/4009184-aaisp-does-what-it-says-on-the-tin.html

You might like to have a quick read of them, Archie.

Thanks.  Read both the threads.  Very informative and interesting.  Do you think I should ask for lift and shift?

Archie.

[razpag]

You cant Archie.

It's down to the engineer visiting on a SFI fault and co-op'ing with your SP whilst on the fault. See my comments previously about what your fault may be down to. IE- 2 reasons ..... HR, or SP's equipment fault.

[razpag]

Do yourself a favour, stop trying to read all the info you are getting on here and other forums, get an SFI visit arranged asap. As I stated hours ago.

[burakkucat]

Thanks.  Read both the threads.  Very informative and interesting.  Do you think I should ask for lift and shift?

Nooo. Please follow RP's advice.

I mentioned those threads so that you can have some idea of the complexity of fault-finding and not to suggest that you should do anything similar.

I think from my short time as a member and posting to these fora that regular contributors will realise that I'm not too happy with the subject header of the first thread. Why? Because it could be viewed as a criticism of OR. I will always defend OR, especially the people who do the actual work. If that subject header was just written so to refer to BTR or BTW, then I would agree.

[Archie]

Do yourself a favour, stop trying to read all the info you are getting on here and other forums, get an SFI visit arranged asap. As I stated hours ago.

Thanks,razpag.  I have already done this with my ISP through their Ticket procedure which has been open for a few months on this issue.  I have insisted on OR's SFI2 Engineer visit to arranged asap as you suggested.  So, now we wait and see what response I get.

I will also put in a call to ADSL fault unit which is open 24/7.

Archie.

[burakkucat]

Walter, my views will be akin to every single OR engineers views, on the different TDR meters/function available.

When we had (some still do by the way) HAWK's or 301's for testing on TDR, we could be pretty sure where the HR was. Fast forward to our latest, more modern testers (JDSU and EXXFO) and they are great on DSL functions, but god-damned awful on TDR functions.

A HR will present itself on a TDR by showing a 'peak' on the tracer, or a 'trough' for a short-circuit. The 2 meters I mentioned are great at pin-pointing these types of fault condition. The modern ones are terrible at it, unless it is a 'full on' HR or SC.

Give me the old testers any day for this type of fault.

Very interesting, RP. So if I should ever come across a second-hand Bird Technologies SignalHawk, that would be an item to own? So far, I have not been able to find much information about the OR issued JDSU device . . . I need to find the time to thoroughly examine the pages of the manufacturer's web-site.

[Archie]

Nooo. Please follow RP's advice.

Fine, I was only exploring the possibilies.  My noviceness showed up, didn't it.

I mentioned those threads so that you can have some idea of the complexity of fault-finding and not to suggest that you should do anything similar.

Thanks and I appreciate your help to increase my knowledge in this area.   

I think from my short time as a member and posting to these fora that regular contributors will realise that I'm not too happy with the subject header of the first thread. Why? Because it could be viewed as a criticism of OR. I will always defend OR, especially the people who do the actual work. If that subject header was just written so to refer to BTR or BTW, then I would agree.

I am very sorry if I gave you that impression with my choice of the title.  It was not intended to be a criticism of OR or come to that any engineer.  My sincere appologies if it came across as that.  I was only seeking expert views through this forum. 

Kind regards
Archie.

[razpag]

Walter, my views will be akin to every single OR engineers views, on the different TDR meters/function available.

When we had (some still do by the way) HAWK's or 301's for testing on TDR, we could be pretty sure where the HR was. Fast forward to our latest, more modern testers (JDSU and EXXFO) and they are great on DSL functions, but god-damned awful on TDR functions.

A HR will present itself on a TDR by showing a 'peak' on the tracer, or a 'trough' for a short-circuit. The 2 meters I mentioned are great at pin-pointing these types of fault condition. The modern ones are terrible at it, unless it is a 'full on' HR or SC.

Give me the old testers any day for this type of fault.

Very interesting, RP. So if I should ever come across a second-hand Bird Technologies SignalHawk, that would be an item to own? So far, I have not been able to find much information about the OR issued JDSU device . . . I need to find the time to thoroughly examine the pages of the manufacturer's web-site.

Thats not the type of HAWK meter we use Cat.

Technology improvements (in all walks of life) are generally something to be embraced. Even though initially we tend to hate 'change', we generally persevere and eventually realise the latest 'version' is indeed better than its predecessor.

Not so with the JDSU and EXXFO testers. I've seen the comings and goings of the Oscillator, the Ohmeter 18C, onto the 301C and then the HAWK. All would pretty much accurately home-in on where the fault was, and each piece of equipment was easier to use. But the JDSU breaks that mould. As I said previously, the HR faults present itself as a 'peak' on the meter viewing screen. In laymans terms, we will see a 'flat-line' from the point where the meter is connected to the wires, up until where the HR is, and an inverted 'V' will show up at the exact distance from the meter.

With the JDSU it's like looking at a sketch of the Himalayan mountain range, there's 'peaks' all over the place and unless it's a 'full on' HR (IE- the wire is just about to break), it's quite hard to interpret the results shown, especially at shorter disatnces under 30/40 mtrs.

[bbnovice]

Archie,

I'm glad you are following RP's advice (he is the expert) and have managed to arrange a SFI visit.

The only thing I would add is to second what RP says about testing. My fault simply did not show up on the OR test equipment despite all the symptoms of it being an HR fault. The OR engineer only managed to fix the problem in the end by trial and error by remaking connections and changing copper along the route from the premise to the exchange. He eventually fixed the fault but I believe he could not swear 100% where the fault actually lay. That is no criticism of him but is a critique of the test results he had at his disposal.

The moral here I think is that testing can be inconclusive despite an obvious network fault being present. How you use that information when you deal with OR (if you need to) I leave to your judgement.


 

[burakkucat]

I think from my short time as a member and posting to these fora that regular contributors will realise that I'm not too happy with the subject header of the first thread. Why? Because it could be viewed as a criticism of OR. I will always defend OR, especially the people who do the actual work. If that subject header was just written so to refer to BTR or BTW, then I would agree.

I am very sorry if I gave you that impression with my choice of the title.  It was not intended to be a criticism of OR or come to that any engineer.  My sincere appologies if it came across as that.  I was only seeking expert views through this forum.  

  We seem to have a bit of a misunderstanding and there is nothing for you to apologise about, Archie. I was referring to the first of the two threads from the ThinkBroadband site, for which I had provided the URLs. It's subject header is "BT: What a bunch of idiots" and it's poster was "mattewan".

[Archie]

The moral here I think is that testing can be inconclusive despite an obvious network fault being present. How you use that information when you deal with OR (if you need to) I leave to your judgement.

Thank you, bbnovice for giving us all the benefit of your experience with the illuding type of line fault.  I shall bear your advice in mind.

Now, I wait and see what action the ISP decides to take and then I shall have to play it by ear. 

Kind Regards,

Archie.

[Archie]

We seem to have a bit of a misunderstanding and there is nothing for you to apologise about, Archie. I was referring to the first of the two threads from the ThinkBroadband site, for which I had provided the URLs. It's subject header is "BT: What a bunch of idiots" and it's poster was "mattewan".

Oooooops. !!!!!  Have dropped a clanger here.  . 

In a way I am glad it wasn't me upsetting the cart.   Pheeeeew. 

Happy to know that it was a misunderstanding on my part. 

Kind regards,
Archie.

[burakkucat]