Kitz ADSL Broadband Information
adsl spacer  
Support this site
Home Broadband ISPs Tech Routers Wiki Forum
 
     
   Compare ISP   Rate your ISP
   Glossary   Glossary
 
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 11

Author Topic: Can Incoming calls affect ADSL Router?  (Read 40232 times)

Archie

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 86
Re: Can Incoming calls affect ADSL Router?
« Reply #30 on: June 10, 2011, 06:57:48 PM »

Hi Gents,

Thank you very much for your advice/s @ burakkucat & roseway.  As the DG834GT is favoured by all concerned, I think I will stick with it and return or throw away the BT Homehub 2.0.

Since connecting DG834GT for nearly 4.5 hours, I have had 1 incoming call but NO line drop.  So, it is beginning to look good, finger crossed  ;D.

I will keep you posted on any developements.

Many regards,
Archie
Logged

razpag

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 622
Re: Can Incoming calls affect ADSL Router?
« Reply #31 on: June 10, 2011, 07:21:02 PM »

Archie ...... your router would drop synch whilst the engineer cut the line down at the PCP (Green cabinet) to test.
It does appear you have had a decent engineer who has been thorough in his faulting. There's perhaps 'other stuff' that he could have done to locate the fault, but without actually being on-site it's hard to question whether he did indeed try other things, as you may not have seen him using his meters or know what actual tests he was carrying out, Archie.

Lets say he did carry out all the tests needed, and couldn't 'find' anything. I've had the same scenario myself umpteen times and as the same EU's have never complained since, I can only assume it's down to our 3-way crimps we use in the PCP's. I have had a few occasions (like every other engineer will have), whereby it seems as if the crimp has 'taken' both wires, but in reality one of those wires can easily be pulled out of the crimp. Therefore giving a 'HR' fault condition. We engineers have to follow certain quality processes whenever we enter the network, and one of those is 'remaking' poor cab crimps (ie-Blue Beans) within the range your working on in the PCP. It's so easy to mis-crimp a pair of wires when rattling through them.

Seeing as your line has been fine since the engineer visited the PCP and various other places, I would conclude that he has removed a 'HR' fault. But, as he hasn't actually pin-pointed it, he's been honest and admitted as much.

Fingers crossed for you Archie.


BKCAT --- you're correct mate, but it is a double-edged sword. ??? The D-side network per-se does include all wiring from the PCP to the EU's master socket, but we tend to distinguish between the pair to the DP and the pair from the DP to the EU's. It just makes it easier when passing info around to clarify which bit of the D-side there is an issue with. ;D
Logged

burakkucat

  • Respected
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 38300
  • Over the Rainbow Bridge
    • The ELRepo Project
Re: Can Incoming calls affect ADSL Router?
« Reply #32 on: June 10, 2011, 07:44:36 PM »

Quote
BKCAT --- you're correct mate, but it is a double-edged sword. ??? The D-side network per-se does include all wiring from the PCP to the EU's master socket, but we tend to distinguish between the pair to the DP and the pair from the DP to the EU's. It just makes it easier when passing info around to clarify which bit of the D-side there is an issue with. ;D

The b*cat nods to acknowledge that information and thanks RP for advancing this novice's education. ;)
Logged
:cat:  100% Linux and, previously, Unix. Co-founder of the ELRepo Project.

Please consider making a donation to support the running of this site.

Archie

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 86
Re: Can Incoming calls affect ADSL Router?
« Reply #33 on: June 11, 2011, 04:58:10 PM »

@ razpag & burakkucat

Thanks, razpag for your explanation of the 'decent' engineer's efforts in trying to locate the fault.  All noted and appreciated.

However, the glory did not last long.  :(  The router (Netgear connected @ 14:34 yesterday) stayed connected for approx. 22.5 hours despite receiving calls yesterday.  Today I have had a few calls of which 2 calls had caused the disconnects.  I have made a note of the times and area from where the calls originated.  Also the point to note is - this happened when the calls finished.  Now the big question is: do I still continue to monitor until 72 hours are up or do I notify my ISP of my finding now.  Or is there something wrong with my equipement - doubts are cripping in!!

I shall be guided by your wisdom.  ;)

The DLM has now knocked down my up and down speeds already.  >:(

Regards,
Archie.
Logged

burakkucat

  • Respected
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 38300
  • Over the Rainbow Bridge
    • The ELRepo Project
Re: Can Incoming calls affect ADSL Router?
« Reply #34 on: June 11, 2011, 06:03:51 PM »

Quote
However, the glory did not last long. :( The router (Netgear connected @ 14:34 yesterday) stayed connected for approx. 22.5 hours despite receiving calls yesterday.  Today I have had a few calls of which 2 calls had caused the disconnects.  I have made a note of the times and area from where the calls originated.  Also the point to note is - this happened when the calls finished.  Now the big question is: do I still continue to monitor until 72 hours are up or do I notify my ISP of my finding now.
Oops. :(

I would recommend that you continue the monitoring / logging for the full period. After all, we are now in the weekend. Would an ISP call centre do much today? (Rhetorical question.)

I find your comment interesting: "happened [the disconnects] when the calls finished". As I see it, it is still pointing to something like a poor (HR) joint in your pair. I don't think the area from where the calls originated are relevant, however your local weather conditions could be significant. Was it raining or had it been raining prior to those two disconnects? Also were those two calls, which resulted in disconnects, consecutive calls? Or were there other "non-disconnecting" calls in between them?

Let's wait to see RP's latest comments.
Logged
:cat:  100% Linux and, previously, Unix. Co-founder of the ELRepo Project.

Please consider making a donation to support the running of this site.

bbnovice

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 267
Re: Can Incoming calls affect ADSL Router?
« Reply #35 on: June 11, 2011, 06:55:30 PM »

Hi Archie,

Been out of the loop for a while as regards this thread, but the problems you have resemble more and more like what I also experienced.

Others on here are a lot (and I mean a lot) more expert than me but my two penneth is:

(1) I would as others have also suggested stick to the Netgear router unless you suspect it is the cause of your problems. Mine behaved well in the face of serious line quality issues - its a Broadcom chip version. And there is a temptation to switch all sorts of things when you hit a problem but you have to be patient and methodical in your trouble shooting. Changing too many things (variables) at once can soemtimes be counterproductive.

(2) Are you continuing to periodically perform a quiet line test? In my case I noticed that the noise on my line dramatically increased following a line disconnect caused by an incoming call. The line was perfectly quiet prior to the call.  Have not a clue as to why this should be so.  Look at the RouterStats before and after the event to see if it tells you anthything. The only way I could reconnect with any semblance of stability after an incoming call had been received was to turn both router and PC off for about 10 minutes.

(3) Wet weather severely degraded the stability/speed of my line and increased the incidence of disconnects (apart from those caused by telephony calls).  Have you noticed that?

You seem to have had a good OR engineer on the case so hopefully things will move forward now toward a resolution.
 
« Last Edit: June 11, 2011, 07:03:13 PM by bbnovice »
Logged

Archie

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 86
Re: Can Incoming calls affect ADSL Router?
« Reply #36 on: June 11, 2011, 07:08:27 PM »

....however your local weather conditions could be significant. Was it raining or had it been raining prior to those two disconnects? Also were those two calls, which resulted in disconnects, consecutive calls? Or were there other "non-disconnecting" calls in between them?

Yesterday rained heavily at night.  This morning sunny and sill dry.  Calls causing disconnect were consecutive, but approx. 3 hours apart and the first call from landline, the second call was from a mobile phone; if this helps in diagnosis.

Next call (approx. 20 mins later) from landline but from a much longer distance did not cause a disconnect.  I find this very strange.

Yes, lets wait and see what Mr. razpag thinks.

Regards,
Archie
Logged

Archie

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 86
Re: Can Incoming calls affect ADSL Router?
« Reply #37 on: June 11, 2011, 07:37:35 PM »

Hello bbnovice,

Thanks for your feedback.

(1) I would as others have also suggested stick to the Netgear router unless you suspect it is the cause of your problems. Mine behaved well in the face of serious line quality issues - its a Broadcom chip version. And there is a temptation to switch all sorts of things when you hit a problem but you have to be patient and methodical in your trouble shooting. Changing too many things (variables) at once can soemtimes be counterproductive.

I am not suspecting Netgear as I had temporarily changed the router from Netgear to ActionTec and yet with ActionTec I was getting the disconnects.  So, this rules the router out.  Following my ISP's suggestions we had eliminated 1 item at a time till we had router and phone connected to the Test socket via filter.  Now I have both connected to the master socket via BT's ADSL filtered face-plate.

I do not know what chipset I have in my Netgear.  How do you find this out?

Quote
(2) Are you continuing to periodically perform a quiet line test? In my case I noticed that the noise on my line dramatically increased following a line disconnect caused by an incoming call. The line was perfectly quiet prior to the call.  Have not a clue as to why this should be so.  Look at the RouterStats before and after the event to see if it tells you anthything. The only way I could reconnect with any semblance of stability after an incoming call had been received was to turn both router and PC off for about 10 minutes.

Very good point.  I hadn't thought of that.  I shall be doing that as from now.  The quiet test shows very low level noise just now.

Quote
(3) Wet weather severely degraded the stability/speed of my line and increased the incidence of disconnects (apart from those caused by telephony calls).  Have you noticed that?

Had very heavy rain last night and the first call received at midday caused the drop after the call ended.  So, despite heavy rain during the night, the router did not disconnect until after the end of this first call.

Quote
You seem to have had a good OR engineer on the case so hopefully things will move forward now toward a resolution.

Thanks.  I hope I get the same OR Engineer on the next call.  He was very helpful and explained a lot of things in his procedures.

Many regards,
Archie
Logged

burakkucat

  • Respected
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 38300
  • Over the Rainbow Bridge
    • The ELRepo Project
Re: Can Incoming calls affect ADSL Router?
« Reply #38 on: June 12, 2011, 01:22:42 AM »

Quote
I do not know what chipset I have in my Netgear.  How do you find this out?
Ah, could that be a secret? Intuition, divination, occult practices perhaps . . .  :no:

In my case, it is reading the information on sites such as this and the Wikipedia Netgear DG834 (series) page. :)
Logged
:cat:  100% Linux and, previously, Unix. Co-founder of the ELRepo Project.

Please consider making a donation to support the running of this site.

razpag

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 622
Re: Can Incoming calls affect ADSL Router?
« Reply #39 on: June 12, 2011, 08:49:03 AM »

Hi guys.

Thanks for having (maybe mis-guided) faith in me.  :-[

Archie, what a shame the problem has resurfaced. I cannot reiterate how difficult, problem-solving some faulty broadband circuits can be. Further to my comments above (and also mentioned by B*Cat), you could indeed have a HR (High resistance) fault. These can manifest themselves anywhere ,from the NTE5 back to poorly soldered joints on the MDF in the exchange. Thats why I questioned that even though it seems you had a decent engineer out, did he carry out all the tests required ?? I would be surprised if you knew the answer to this Archie, unless you are a closet Openreach faultsman techniques-phobe ??  ;D

My advice would be to ring your ISP straight away. Insist on having another SFI2 visit asap, and insist they put in their on-screen notes about the circuit losing synch when phone is in use. Don't go too much into detail about times and what type of trunk calls etc etc, just say it's when the phone is used.

Hopefully, you will either get the same engineer , or another that doesn't worry about what his manager will say if he goes over the scheduled hours on the job, and will carry on until he fixes it.

As I've said on here many times before, 'remote virtual faulting' is ridiculous in itself. :) I couldn't ever turn round and say "Its an outside fault on the D-side" without actually being present on the fault. What I can do, is give you a bit of info on what to ask the OR engineer to do. This type of fault is usually one of two things, 1) HR ....... 2) Faulty SP equipment in the exchange.
When the engineer arrives I would ask that he utilises his TDR (Time/Domain Reflectometer) which is sometimes called a 'Mole', to see if there are any HR's visible on the line. If it's a HR in its early stages, it may not be sufficient to view with the 'Mole' without actually ringing the landline. As this draws roughly 90vac (as opposed to its normal state of 50vdc), then if there is a HR it should then be traceable due to the increase in voltage/current used. Simply put, engineer attaches the mole to the 2 wires where it enters your property and then rings the landline whilst looking at the mole for the HR.

I would also ask that he utilise simple faulting techniques like using his 'Butt' phone on 17070 when checking for synch along the cable route. At the end of the day, this is what your fault is, the modem drops when the phone is in use. Its no good just looking to just get synch at various test points along the way, he needs to also load the circuit up by drawing dial-tone with hiss 'Butt' phone as well.

I would hope he will do this as a matter of course, but as mooted before, we are only human and are all fallible to making errors, or just simply forgetting.

I just hope for all concerned that the fault is still present when the engineers attends site. An intermittent fault that is working perfectly well when we are in attendance, is a nighmare scenario. The engineer will have to hope he can 'see' a HR with his mole in that circumstance.

Apologies if this doesn't make much sense as I can ramble on a bit, but trying to put over what may be needed, without insulting previous engineers, can sometimes be difficult. Make the call Archie, get someone out asap. ;D  
« Last Edit: June 12, 2011, 08:52:09 AM by razpag »
Logged

waltergmw

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 2776
Re: Can Incoming calls affect ADSL Router?
« Reply #40 on: June 12, 2011, 10:57:04 AM »

@ RP,

(Sorry to Archie as this is a little off topic)

I'd very much like to know your views on the differences between the TDR and the screen you can call up on the JDSU ADSL test instrument. (Assuming that you are talking about a different instrument and not the JDSU.)

Kind regards,
Walter
Logged

jeffbb

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 2329
Re: Can Incoming calls affect ADSL Router?
« Reply #41 on: June 12, 2011, 12:24:36 PM »

Hi

The 834 GT Has  a Broadcom chipset

Regards Jeff
Logged
zen user

burakkucat

  • Respected
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 38300
  • Over the Rainbow Bridge
    • The ELRepo Project
Re: Can Incoming calls affect ADSL Router?
« Reply #42 on: June 12, 2011, 12:43:14 PM »

There are two threads over in the forum on the ThinkBroadband site, for which I'll post the URLs --

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/technical/3854118-bt-what-a-bunch-of-idiots.html
http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/aaisp/f/4009184-aaisp-does-what-it-says-on-the-tin.html

You might like to have a quick read of them, Archie.
Logged
:cat:  100% Linux and, previously, Unix. Co-founder of the ELRepo Project.

Please consider making a donation to support the running of this site.

Archie

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 86
Re: Can Incoming calls affect ADSL Router?
« Reply #43 on: June 12, 2011, 03:01:08 PM »

In my case, it is reading the information on sites such as this and the Wikipedia Netgear DG834 (series) page. :)

Thanks, burakkucat.  I will look it up.

For info: Weather conditions today, drizzling all morning; afternoon stop drizzle but windy.  Had an incoming call this morning at 11.28.  But NO DISCONNECT this time.

Archie
Logged

Archie

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 86
Re: Can Incoming calls affect ADSL Router?
« Reply #44 on: June 12, 2011, 03:19:40 PM »

My advice would be to ring your ISP straight away. Insist on having another SFI2 visit asap, and insist they put in their on-screen notes about the circuit losing synch when phone is in use. Don't go too much into detail about times and what type of trunk calls etc etc, just say it's when the phone is used.
...................
Apologies if this doesn't make much sense as I can ramble on a bit, but trying to put over what may be needed, without insulting previous engineers, can sometimes be difficult. Make the call Archie, get someone out asap. ;D  

Thanks, razpag all comments noted.  I will get on to my ISP and ask them what you suggest.

And, yes the ramble was surely very helpful, though it did not make much sense to me; but I am learning thanks to you, burakkucat and, to keep it short, all the others who posted here.

Incidentally, dispite receving a call this morning, I had no disconnect and the router has stayed connected for nearly 24 hours.  It seems it is a funny sort of fault on my line.

Archie.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 11
 

anything