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[Archie]

Hi all,

Firstly, I am new to this forum, so please forgive me if I am doing something incorrectly. 

I have found that frequently I get router disconnection with incoming calls.  I am connected to the Master socket with BT's Face-plate with built-in filter.  No line extensions.

I am also experiencing disconnects at odd times apart from incoming calls.  Line tests have have been carried out by BT and my ISP.  But, I still feel there is something wrong at the exchange.  Frequent disconnectons is bringing the DLM to reduce my up/dpwn speeds.

With a lot of telephony & ADSL expertise within this forum, I thought I may get some expert advice/suggestions to identify the problem.  All the help will be appreciated.  Thanks.

Archie

[burakkucat]

On behalf of everyone here, "Welcome, Archie".

Straight down to business. You say you get "router disconnection with incoming calls". Some questions:

(1) Are the disconnections occurring when the 'phone "rings" (it strange how we all still use that description when most 'phones now just make noises like the second floor of Hamley's toy-shop on a free-for-all testing day) or does it occur when you answer the incoming call?

(2) Are the disconnections just a loss of broadband or is it a total loss of sync with the exchange equipment?

(3) Have you tried the most simplest of tests -- remove the (BT provided) filtered face-plate from the NTE5A and connect your telephone & router via a microfilter to the internal test socket?

(4) What is your modem/router?

[Archie]

Thanks Burakkucat

(1) Are the disconnections occurring when the 'phone "rings" (it strange how we all still use that description when most 'phones now just make noises like the second floor of Hamley's toy-shop on a free-for-all testing day) or does it occur when you answer the incoming call?

Disconnects occur only after I pick up the receiver.  I haven't actually tried to see what happens if I do not answer the phone!!!

(2) Are the disconnections just a loss of broadband or is it a total loss of sync with the exchange equipment?

Total loss of sync, I believe, Internet light goes off and then flashing red trying to sync, which takes about a minute or so to re-sync.

(3) Have you tried the most simplest of tests -- remove the (BT provided) filtered face-plate from the NTE5A and connect your telephone & router via a microfilter to the internal test socket?

Yes, through my ISP.  Tests also carried out from BT test Socket via microfilter.  At that time we did not have problems with interference for over 72 hours.  So, filtered faceplate was installed and there were no problems with interference for over 72 hours.  However, all of sudden from weekend of 21st May we started to get this issue with incoming calls.  Please note that I also had disconnections at odd times - especially when I am not around.

(4) What is your modem/router?

Originally, I had Netgear DG834GT.  But, because I was getting more than 6 disconnects, at odd times, in 72 hours, my ISP suggested to try a different router to eliminate the router fault.  I had borrowed ActionTec router (new) and currently ActionTec router in connected to the filtered face-plate with phone base unit in phone outlet of the plate.  There are no other extension coming off that master socket.

Hope this helps.

Many regards,

Archie

[HPsauce]

And to ask the obvious question.....
What happens when you have just a simple plain old corded unpowered phone?

[jeffbb]

Hi

quote from weekend of 21st May we started to get this issue with incoming calls.
If you ring out do you get problems or is it consistently when you get incoming call

Regards Jeff

[burakkucat]

Disconnects occur only after I pick up the receiver.  I haven't actually tried to see what happens if I do not answer the phone!!!

So I'd suggest you make that test. Could you make the arrangement for someone to call you, knowing that you will not be answering the call?

Total loss of sync, I believe, Internet light goes off and then flashing red trying to sync, which takes about a minute or so to re-sync.

Noted.

Tests also carried out from BT test Socket via microfilter.  At that time we did not have problems with interference for over 72 hours.  So, filtered faceplate was installed and there were no problems with interference for over 72 hours.

By "interference" do you just mean this disconnect issue? Or have you had another problem, previously?

Originally, I had Netgear DG834GT.

Usually reliable.

But, because I was getting more than 6 disconnects, at odd times, in 72 hours, my ISP suggested to try a different router to eliminate the router fault.  I had borrowed ActionTec router (new)

A sensible move. An ActionTec modem/router, however, is not something with which I'm familiar.

. . . currently ActionTec router in connected to the filtered face-plate with phone base unit in phone outlet of the plate.

Thinking along the same lines as HPsauce, could you make do with using just the simplest set-up for a few days of testing? Go back to the microfilter connected to the test socket, with the ActionTec modem/router and a wired 'phone connected to the microfilter.

A few more questions, just to get the complete picture.

(5) When a disconnect has occurred upon answering the 'phone, when does the reconnect process start to take place? Almost immediately or only when you finish the telephone call, when the voice loop is cleared down?

(6) Is there any noticeable noise on the line? (The BT quiet test can be invoked by calling 17070, option number 2.)

(7) Who is your ISP and what is your package?

(8 ) Would you please put your telephone number into the SamKnows site and then let us know the URL of the page displayed. That way we can check details of your exchange without you disclosing too much information.

(9) Is it at all possible to obtain any statistics from the ActionTec modem/router?

I am wondering if there is a defective joint (possibly HR ?) somewhere within your local-loop.

[Archie]

If you ring out do you get problems or is it consistently when you get incoming call

Regards Jeff

Yes, tried it and no effect to ADSL.

Archie.

[Archie]

And to ask the obvious question.....
What happens when you have just a simple plain old corded unpowered phone?

Yes, tried it but only for an hour.  The result was disconnection on receiving incoming call.

Thanks,
Archie

[Archie]

So I'd suggest you make that test. Could you make the arrangement for someone to call you, knowing that you will not be answering the call?

Yes, will try this soon.

Thinking along the same lines as HPsauce, could you make do with using just the simplest set-up for a few days of testing? Go back to the microfilter connected to the test socket, with the ActionTec modem/router and a wired 'phone connected to the microfilter.

Yes, already tried it but only for an hour because disconnect occured on an incoming call.

(5) When a disconnect has occurred upon answering the 'phone, when does the reconnect process start to take place? Almost immediately or only when you finish the telephone call, when the voice loop is cleared down?

Sorry, not sure.  I hadn't thought of it.  Sorry.  Perhaps, I should keep an eye on this part.

(6) Is there any noticeable noise on the line? (The BT quiet test can be invoked by calling 17070, option number 2.)

Just tried it.  Very, very low level; bearing in mind that my hearing is not as sharp as it used to be!!!

(7) Who is your ISP and what is your package?

Plusnet. Value Broadband only.

(8 ) Would you please put your telephone number into the SamKnows site and then let us know the URL of the page displayed. That way we can check details of your exchange without you disclosing too much information.

Yes, glad to: http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/SMBT

(9) Is it at all possible to obtain any statistics from the ActionTec modem/router?

Glad to.

WAN Status
PPP Status
Status:  Connected      
Authentication Failure: 0   
Session Time:    0 days 00:45:00
Packets Sent:  2194   
Packets Received:     2248
DSL Status        
Connection Status:    Showtime
Speed (down/up): 2656/448       
Near End CRC Errors (I/F): 0/0   
Far End CRC Errors (I/F): 124/0   
Near End RS FEC (I/F):    0/0
Far End RS FEC (I/F):    1692/0
SNR Margin (Downstream/Upstream): 13/9   
Transmit Power (Downstream/Upstream): 17/12   
Attenuation (Downstream/Upstream):    59/63

By the way just had call from BT Openreach (OR).  My ISP have arranged for a Boost Engineer to visit the premises.  The call was to confirm tomorrow's visit. 

Incidentally, when OR called and I answered the call, there was not an immediate disconnection.  But disconnection occurred after I had placed the receiver down.  Does this mean that I was completely incorrect in saying (earlier) that the diaconnects happened on lifting the receiver .  I wonder what else do I need to look at again.  .

Hope the above helps.

Regards,

Archie.

[bbnovice]

This sounds very very similar to a problem I had recently. I can't offer a solution beyond the following:

(1) You mention a very low level of noise (despite your hearing difficulties!) during a quiet line test. Any noise may be suggestive of a network fault as far as ADSL connections are concerned.
 
(2) I too had any number of line tests from both the ISP and BT reporting that there was no fault on the network.  But at the end of the day the fault WAS on the BT network.

(3) I do not want to be a gloom merchant but it was only because (by chance) I had a network disconnect from an incoming call whilst the BT Openreach engineer was on site that persuaded him to investigate further.  His test kit reported there was no fault whatever on the network (and he showed me the test results) but after what happened he went out and changed the pairs between the premise and the exchange. The problem then disappeared.

I note that you are using a Netgear router. If you have not already done so I stongly recommend that you download RouterStats and start monitoring the line.   The BT Openreach engineer I mentioned earlier was additionally persuaded by the evidence provided by RouterStats to continue his investigations despite pressure from his manager.  Perhaps the line drops reported by RouterStats persuaded him that I was not dreaming up the whole problem.

[razpag]

As in all walks of life, there are different skill levels with OR engineers. After making him/her a cup of tea, I would immediately let him know about the disconnections tied in when the phone is used. The likelihood is that those important notes won't be on the jobsheet (laptop).

[Archie]

Thank you very much for your input, bbnovice.  Much appreciated .

Yes, your issue seems very, very similar to what I am experiencing.  I already had BT Retail Engineer, as I have BT line.  While he was here we had a disconnect and then he tried his own equipement to knock off the connection.  He did succeed.  His response was that though the line shows to be good, it is ADSL side of things which would need looking at and hence to get BT OR via my ISP to check ADSL side.  This is happening tomorrow between 8 am and 1 pm.

It is a little late to carry out the monitoring using RouterStats.  However, I will download it for future use.  Is it the lite or full version one would need?

Many regards,

Archie

[Archie]

After making him/her a cup of tea, I would immediately let him know about the disconnections tied in when the phone is used.

I intended to do just that on his/her arrival.  I have made a list of calls with area the calls came from and their times and the dates on which the disconnects had happened.  This includes the calls from BT retail and OR.

Thanks for your advice.  Much appreciated. 

Regards,

Archie

[jeffbb]

Hi
Quote However, I will download it for future use.  Is it the lite or full version one would need?

Never too late to start monitoring . Full version is best if your current router is compatible . The GT will happily work on full version.

Regards Jeff

[razpag]

No worries Archie.

The reason I stress mentioning the dis-cons and the phone, is that sometimes we get to site and it'll be a firend or relative who give us access, not the actual End User. A lot of the time the friend/relative won't be aware of what the problem is, as the End User won't have told them because they think all the relevant information will be passed on to the engineer via their SP. Think again !!!! We are lucky to get a full and proper address and half a  circuit routing.

When the above scenario happens, we engineers just get on with testing the circuit, ie) PQT, Eclipse, Synch tests, Error tests, HR's etc etc , and they may well all pass with flying colours. Even the most experienced engineer can sometimes forget to plug the phone in whilst testing, to see if a loss of service occurs when the phone is used. We have quite a lot to remember to meet all types of legal requirements, so it really does help if the EU can add to the mix exactly what happens to the router, and when (if at all possible).

If it's any consolation, this type of fault is brilliant for an engineer to work on, as we can 'see' when the fault is cleared, rather than an 'Intermittent fault' that always works OK when we get to site and we don't have much to go looking for.