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Author Topic: Look...no copper wires.  (Read 2155 times)

tuftedduck

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HPsauce

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Re: Look...no copper wires.
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2011, 05:14:15 PM »

With a >140,000km total round trip the ping times won't exactly suit gamers.  :angel:
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razpag

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Re: Look...no copper wires.
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2011, 06:27:25 PM »

Hmmm .... good bit of kit if it does what it says on the tin. As mooted, ideal for rural communities.
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roseway

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Re: Look...no copper wires.
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2011, 06:34:02 PM »

As HP said, it won't please gamers, but there are several people round where I live who would be very happy to pay those costs for a reliable and reasonably fast service.
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  Eric

sevenlayermuddle

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Re: Look...no copper wires.
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2011, 12:29:26 AM »

I've always been sceptical of satellite broadband, simply because the downlink is a single bottleneck shared by all users, rendering the dreaded 'upto' speed expression even more irrelevant than it is with wired broadband.

It may well be the case that a single user, who has the downlink  all to him/her-self,  can attain 'upto 10mbps' or whatever.  But at 'upto 10mbps', if they sell that service to 100,000 users to get payback for the cost of satellite launch, it would require that the downlink is operating at 1,000,000 mbps.  From what I recall of Nyquist's theorem regarding data encoding at the bandwidth offered by satellite TX frequencies,  that ain't gonna' happen.    Real-world users, after the service gathers more customers, could not then rely upon even a tiny fraction of the 'upto' figure.

Or am I missing something?

7LM
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roseway

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Re: Look...no copper wires.
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2011, 07:15:26 AM »

One factor which you haven't taken into consideration is diversity. Not all the users will be downloading at their maximum rate all the time. With common internet activitites like browsing and email, only a very small proportion of the online time is spent downloading. A ratio of 50:1 has commonly been assumed for consumer use, and 20:1 for professional use. So I would think that 100,000 users could easily be accommodated on a satellite link.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2011, 07:52:19 AM by roseway »
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  Eric

sevenlayermuddle

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Re: Look...no copper wires.
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2011, 09:51:38 AM »

One factor which you haven't taken into consideration is diversity. Not all the users will be downloading at their maximum rate all the time. With common internet activitites like browsing and email, only a very small proportion of the online time is spent downloading. A ratio of 50:1 has commonly been assumed for consumer use, and 20:1 for professional use. So I would think that 100,000 users could easily be accommodated on a satellite link.


I guess that's my whole point, that an equivalent of 'contention' would also exist for satellites, though I'd debate the conclusion that 100,000 users could easily be accommodated with at 'upto 10mbps', without being seriously deceptive about the 'upto'.  I've no idea how they scale the economics, but my gut feeling is it 'upto 10mbps' only be viable if contention were more like many hundreds, or even thousands, to one.  That could have a much greater impact than the the 50:1 to which we are accustomed.

From a quick google, it looks like some sat's use data compression to get around bandwidth limitations, and I wonder if they include that in  their proposed data rates and contentions?   That's all very well for web browsing, but with bandwidth-intensive stuff like video, zips or compressed disc images, the data is already compressed and so there will be no benefit from further compression.

I've also read in places that Sat links carry strict FUP terms with fast-acting throttles which, in their descriptions stop greedy downloaders from using all the bandwidth (ie contending with others).  The net result of that is that even if you're a light user, the first time you try to download something like a 4GB DVD disc image, you'll find it takes all weekend rather than the few hours you'd expect.

Sorry for harping on, but we've all seen how deceptive the word 'upto' has become in relation to traditional broadband, I just don't want to see it becoming even more deceptive.
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roseway

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Re: Look...no copper wires.
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2011, 10:16:08 AM »

We would need to see the contractual details before reaching any firm conclusions about contention and FUP. This service isn't going to be of interest to people who already have decent fast connections, or for serious online gamers. It's main attraction is to people in poorly served areas, a lot of whom would be very happy to get a reliable service at 2 Mbps. The area where I live is a designated slowspot (less that 2 Mbps) and I know several of my neighbours are really eager for something more reliable and a bit faster. (Strangely I'm the local lucky one - I get about 6 Mbps :) ).
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  Eric

waltergmw

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Re: Look...no copper wires.
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2011, 11:48:41 AM »

@ 7LM & Eric,

1.  I know of several proposals where Satellite is a suggested stop-gap whilst waiting for other solutions.

2.  A small point, but it must be mentioned to the users, that there are periods on two days p.a. when the sun stops the transmissions.

3.  If the now defunct Aramisca system was anything to go by, they use a significant amount of traffic shaping as well as a FUP.

4. Back-haul from their base station must be known (or adjusted) re location-sensitive services such as iPlayer.

5.  I think round-trip latency of nearly 3/4 sec is mentioned by some.

All that said, it's a jolly site better than dial up or some of the horrors I'm dealing with.

Kind regards,
Walter

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