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Author Topic: Adding Extensions - Quick Question  (Read 7365 times)

soreilly

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Adding Extensions - Quick Question
« on: April 19, 2011, 07:18:50 PM »

Hi Guys,

Firstly I'm new here and many thanks for providing such a great source of information. :)

Now, I have a question regarding the type of extension socket.  In the (very) near future I'm going to be adding some extension sockets to my place, a friends place and another family members place.  All three do not have any extensions at the moment but they all have a BT NTE5 socket.

I'm planning on using an LJU2 extension socket.  The question is whether to use the 1A (master type with ring capacitor) or the 3A without.  Two of the properties have ADSL so they will have DSL microfilters attached.

Can I use the 3A and simple connect the ring wire?  Can I use the 1A and not connect the ring wire (will the phone still ring without a DSL microfilter)?  What's the best option for DSL?

Many thanks,

S.
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Lord Gumble

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Re: Adding Extensions - Quick Question
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2011, 08:39:18 PM »

Hi there,

From my experience, all extensions are the ones without capacitors. A capacitor is mainly for the main socket, ie NTE5. If you do have an NTE5, its easy to add an extension. Just take the front plate off, and it reveals what we call a test socket. If you look at the back of the plate you just took off, you will notice 6 punch in slots, where you punch in the extension pair.

A 3A should suffice.

You may have to take off the test socket plate to run your cable through the mounting box, and through the hole to put on the front plate.

Use punch slots 2 and 5. (2 is the A wire, 5 is the B wire) and do the same on the other end of the extention cable you are installing, (2 and 5)

would recommend you use the White wire, Blue stripes as A (2) and Blue wire, White stripes as B (5) with your extention cable. They are twisted pairs, so you cant really lose them or go wrong.

Whatever you do, dont wire it directly to your dropwire coming into your property, or UG cable if you have an NTE5 setup, as you're not really allowed to touch the external network. However, its normally permitted to use the front plate to add extensions.

BTW, personally, wouldn't bother with a ring wire. (punch in 3) Sometimes causes more trouble than its worth with certain ADSL setups.

Any further questions, dont hesitate to ask. Sure one of the engineers on here will be able to guide you :)

Good luck!
« Last Edit: April 19, 2011, 08:43:02 PM by Lord Gumble »
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Lord Gumble

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Re: Adding Extensions - Quick Question
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2011, 08:50:07 PM »

Oh and another tip....

I use one of these.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BT-Master-Socket-NTE5-NTE2000-ADSL-Faceplate-Filter-/260626695027?pt=UK_Phones_PhoneLeads_RL&hash=item3cae8fc373

Its an NTE5, with a broadband faceplate. I take the broadband off at the master socket, and all my extensions are just DEL lines, no broadband. Same principal, 2 and 5 punched in on the backplate, only difference is, no filters are needed on any other extensions.
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razpag

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Re: Adding Extensions - Quick Question
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2011, 09:02:11 PM »

If possible, I would make the socket where the Hub/Router is to be sited, the 'Master Socket (NTE5). Then fit a SSFP (IE-NTE2000 or ADSL Nation Frontplate). Then 'run' the extention sockets from this point and connect the wires to the SSFP. There are three ways to do this ......

1) Fit the extention sockets that have the 'ringing capacitor' in them, that way only 2 wires need to be connected (on terminals 2 and 5).
2) Fit extention sockets without the RC's fitted, you will need to terminate 3 wires (Terminals 2,3 and 5) as some of the older phones will not ring without the 3rd wire connected.
3) The same method as No.2, only connect 2 wires though (Terminals 2 and 5), then fit micro-filters in the extention sockets. The MF's have their own 'ringing capacitors' in them, therefore even the really old style phones will still ring.


The SSFP is ideal, as it means the broadband frequency (Digital, roughly 300Khz) goes straight into the Hub/Router and does not travel around the house to the rest of the extention sockets, thus ensuring greater speed/stability. The telephone frequency (Analogue, roughly 1.6Khz) will however still be carried to all sockets.
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burakkucat

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Re: Adding Extensions - Quick Question
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2011, 11:40:17 PM »

Use punch slots 2 and 5. (2 is the A wire, 5 is the B wire)

Ahem, cough. I'm surprised that Mr Pag didn't comment but 2 is actually the B-wire and 5 is the A-wire.  :)
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razpag

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Re: Adding Extensions - Quick Question
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2011, 07:29:14 AM »

 ;D ;D ;D .... putting it down to 'senility creep' kicking in.

In my defence Your Honour, I can honestly say I havent worked on a 'polarity conscious' PSTN/DSL line in probably 15 yrs. We still have 'Private Wires' that are PC, and the very odd Business System that uses 'Earth Calling', but they are extremely rare.

Ergo, just connect the 2 wires any way round, so long as you follow the same format throughout the installation. IE- if you connect the Blue wire to Terminal 2 in one socket, then it should be the same for every Blue wire in every extention socket.
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Lord Gumble

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Re: Adding Extensions - Quick Question
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2011, 08:37:35 AM »

Use punch slots 2 and 5. (2 is the A wire, 5 is the B wire)

Ahem, cough. I'm surprised that Mr Pag didn't comment but 2 is actually the B-wire and 5 is the A-wire.  :)

Apologies, was late and prob had me beer goggles on lol!!
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burakkucat

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Re: Adding Extensions - Quick Question
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2011, 02:10:06 PM »

The old black cat smiles and hopes that the two honourable gentlemen of the communications profession realise that b*cat was just being pesky!   ;)

Even to this day I will still ground the +ve lead of my DVM and ensure that what looks like the B-wire actually does present -50 volts.

Now did I see a mention of beer? Excuse me whilst I go and check my bowl . . .  :P
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soreilly

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Re: Adding Extensions - Quick Question
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2011, 10:32:18 PM »

Hi Guys,

Many thanks for all your replies.

I managed to do my friends house today.   The previous occupant had run socket doublers back to the master socket and not bothered with proper extensions (it turned out to be a right mess).  I took the master socket off and whoever had done it (probably the previous occupant) had wired the incoming BT cable NOT into the back of the master socket (A and B terminals), but into terminals 2 & 5 on the removable faceplate (so test socket would have been unavailable)!

I know we shouldn't touch this part of the wire (BT's property and all), but I had to correct the wiring.  We then removed all existing wiring used for the socket doublers and ran proper cable to his spare room for the DSL connection and the master bedroom.  Cables punched in and a telephone check after each extension was done and all confirmed working.  Didn't bother to connect the ring wire as all sockets will have a microfilter.

One big thing he noticed was his DSL connection improved (he's on ADSL1 - his town hasn't even got ADSL2 yet!).  He was getting around 5Mbps with intermittent drops (we suspect this was due to the very poor wiring).  Following the new extension socket he's now getting 7.6Mbps down / 448kbps up (virtually the maximum for ADSL1 I believe).  His SNR is 10dB and attenuation is 21dB! :)

Once again, thank you for the replies.

Happy Easter!

S.
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burakkucat

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Re: Adding Extensions - Quick Question
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2011, 03:04:04 AM »

Quote
Following the new extension socket he's now getting 7.6Mbps down / 448kbps up (virtually the maximum for ADSL1 I believe).  His SNR is 10dB and attenuation is 21dB! :)

Once again, thank you for the replies.

Thank you for updating this thread. It's nice to read that a satisfactory result has been obtained.
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razpag

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Re: Adding Extensions - Quick Question
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2011, 07:32:04 AM »

Result Soreilly !! ;D

As an aside, with an attenuation like that he may be able to get the full 8128Kbps. I'm assuming he has 'Interleaving' switched on as his preferred connection method ?? If he reverts to 'Fastpath', he will probably eek an extra 0.5Meg synch speed out of the circuit.

It is a 'simple' phone call to his SP requesting a switch. TBH, he may not even notice the difference but it was just FYI.  ;D
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waltergmw

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Re: Adding Extensions - Quick Question
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2011, 07:41:18 AM »

Gentlefolk,

I am surprised sometimes by the state of broadband understanding amongst "ordinary users".

All too often I discover domestic wiring horrors when people eventually complain about their broadband performance. On a few occasions even, the EU is blissfully unaware of the available potential.

I too have doubled throughput speeds by ring wire removal. Another frequent problem is an EU not realising they are on a capped service which is not the easiest thing for the uninitiated to spot. I had one recently, where I still had a categorical statement from a BT person, that BT NEVER cap line speeds on their services, yet I was looking at the 2Wire Diagnostics page clearly showing a cap. Another gripe came from someone with a sync speed of 5 Mbps but a 500 Kbps cap.

It is thanks to this splendid site that more are educating themselves - very well done Kitz et al ! Perhaps a banner somewhere saying "come to Kitz to check your broadband health" ?

(Sorry for sliding a bit off topic.)

Kind regards,
Walter
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jeffbb

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Re: Adding Extensions - Quick Question
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2011, 07:23:24 PM »

Hi

quote from Kitz
:It should also be pointed out that whilst BTw state that applying interleaving shouldn't reduce your line speed, it does reduce the maximum line rate achievable from 8128kbps to 7616kbps due to the additional overhead required for check bytes.
Note: although BT state 7616 is maximum sync speed with interleaving, many instances of higher sync speeds have been reported by users. This is dependent upon your router being able to support S=1/2 mode which effectively combines two RS code words into a larger logical code word of 510 bytes (ANSI T1.413).

Read more: http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/interleaving.htm#ixzz1KN745Um5

Regards Jeff

edit . I know it works as I had a connection of 7968Kbps  with Interleave switched on.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2011, 07:30:21 PM by jeffbb »
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