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Author Topic: 3rd party testing  (Read 4295 times)

toastmice

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3rd party testing
« on: March 02, 2011, 12:38:47 PM »

Hi,

I wonder if anyone here might be able to help me. I live in an area where our exchange is not enabled for ADSL. We would like to test some of the copper telephone lines that are furthest away from the exchange for noise etc. so we could try to predict the possible (future) bandwidth. Is it possible to do this (before the exchange has been enabled)? Or am I barking up the wrong tree?

Cheers.

TM
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roseway

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Re: 3rd party testing
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2011, 12:49:12 PM »

Hi and welcome

I don't personally know any way to test the lines until they're ADSL enabled, but someone more expert might have some ideas. You might be able to trace the routes taken back to the exchange and get an estimate of their length. That could translate into an estimate of the attentuation. This would give you some idea about whether there was a reasonable chance of a good connection on these lines, but it would be very approximate.
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  Eric

waltergmw

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Re: 3rd party testing
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2011, 02:13:51 PM »

Just to add the link to Eric's note
http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/adslchecker.php

but do take care to watch the likely cable route which may be longer than the Kitz's nearest route estimate.

Kind regards,
Walter
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razpag

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Re: 3rd party testing
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2011, 04:22:22 PM »

Hi,

I wonder if anyone here might be able to help me. I live in an area where our exchange is not enabled for ADSL. We would like to test some of the copper telephone lines that are furthest away from the exchange for noise etc. so we could try to predict the possible (future) bandwidth. Is it possible to do this (before the exchange has been enabled)? Or am I barking up the wrong tree?

Cheers.

TM

In my opinion, no, there's no way to test for the parameters you require without fitting a Remore Testing Unit in the exchange (on each and every circuit in turn), then visiting each individual property and testing back towards the RTU at 300Khz. Personally, there isn't a cat-in-hells chance of you gaining entrance into the Exchange without an officiated visit having been agreed. Even if you did manage to gain entry, you would not be able to work on 'Our network' as you aren't accredited to do so.

Bear in mind aslo, even if you use a 'Cat & Genny' and trace the correct route from the premises back to the exchange (which only a mad-man like Walter would attempt  ;D), you may well then have a 'distance' to work to, but the other deciding factor is goverened by the poundage, or thickness, of the cables and whether its Aluminium or Copper, with Copper being the better conductor (has less resistance/attenuation).

All in all .............. wrong tree and bark, do spring to mind.  ;D Sorry.
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waltergmw

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Re: 3rd party testing
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2011, 05:02:49 PM »

A lot of ours is manky o/head but I was very seriously informed that network details and NOT in the public domain !
The funny side of that is I sometimes know better than the "on loan" Openreach engineers where the lines run as there are quite a few errors in their "Victorian" drawings !

Kind regards,
Walter
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toastmice

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Re: 3rd party testing
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2011, 06:30:49 PM »

Thanks for the advice everyone. So there really isn't *any* way of knowing. Out of interest, are noise issues more of a problem in urban or rural areas? I'm thinking that if noise is caused by electrical interference then there will be less noise in rural areas?

Thanks again.

TM
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waltergmw

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Re: 3rd party testing
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2011, 06:41:41 PM »

Hi TM,

My limited experience suggests there's MUCH more noise on overhead than underground cables.

I know we've been a bit negative re your request but if your line length is likely to be less that 4 or 5 km there's a good chance you'll get an ADSL service, but no absolute guarantee.
I know of a few that crawl along with line lengths up to 7 km.

You'll see plenty of my gripes here so this time here's a treat which is about 1 km from the exchange. The little extra bit is because I couldn't fit the whole bit loading picture nicely on one page - it was SO GOOD !

Kind regards,
Walter

« Last Edit: March 02, 2011, 06:44:18 PM by waltergmw »
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razpag

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Re: 3rd party testing
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2011, 06:53:48 PM »

Thanks for the advice everyone. So there really isn't *any* way of knowing. Out of interest, are noise issues more of a problem in urban or rural areas? I'm thinking that if noise is caused by electrical interference then there will be less noise in rural areas?

Thanks again.

TM

'Noise' (and we're not talking audible noise here) is prevalent on all circuits. The further the distance from exchange to premises, the more 'noise' you will receive. It's pure physics.

The 'noise' that you are on about attempting to measure in your opening post, is completely different to the electrical noise you later mention. The type we can measure is commonly paired against the signal strength of the circuit. IE- SNR (Signal-to-Noise Ratio) and is measured in dB (decibels). Dynamic Line Management sytems are in play to lift the signal strength above the 'noise' levels when levels start to rise, usually during the day.

The electrical interference (REIN) is much more of a faulty 'noise' and can severely disable broadband circuits. There is only so much we can do to counter REIN 'noise' and thats only if it's negligible REIN. If it's much more prevalent, then the actual source has to be located and remedied.

As an aside, rural lines can actually be worse affected by REIN noise due to poorly earthed electric fences, especially when the Openreach cables run in parrallel beneath them. But, as well as affecting the broadband side of the circuit, a 'ticking' audible noise can also be heard on the telephone with this type of fault. We get these during hot, dry spells and the earth spike is effectively surrounded by high-resistance earth. A couple of remedies are 1) To inform the farmer , or 2) To relieve oneself on the earth spike. That usually lasts long enough until the farmer sees to it. ;D
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roseway

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Re: 3rd party testing
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2011, 06:58:32 PM »

Quote
2) To relieve oneself on the earth spike.

There ought to be a health warning attached to that - make sure you don't miss, and go on the electric fence instead! :silly: ;D
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  Eric

razpag

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Re: 3rd party testing
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2011, 07:02:54 PM »

Big LOL ..... it wouldn't matter where the 'heck you are' in Great Britain ..... you'd hear the scream Roseway. ;D
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jeffbb

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Re: 3rd party testing
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2011, 07:03:51 PM »

Hi
quote To relieve oneself on the earth spike  make sure it is on the earth spike and not the fence  :no:

Regards Jeff
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toastmice

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Re: 3rd party testing
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2011, 07:08:16 PM »

I think I'll pass on that remedy Razpag. But thanks anyway!

I know it's not accurate but following the road, I live about 3km from the exchange. I know there are many other factors to consider but if you had to guess, or in your experiences -what ADSL2+ speeds *might* be attainable? 1mbps? 2mbps?

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razpag

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Re: 3rd party testing
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2011, 07:14:19 PM »

I think I'll pass on that remedy Razpag. But thanks anyway!

I know it's not accurate but following the road, I live about 3km from the exchange. I know there are many other factors to consider but if you had to guess, or in your experiences -what ADSL2+ speeds *might* be attainable? 1mbps? 2mbps?



Thats what it would be, a guess I'm afraid, so I'd rather not comment and try and guide you to the graph that kitz has on this forum somewhere. I say 'guide', but I haven't the foggiest as to where it is situated. one of the admin/mods will be along soon I would hope and help you out more. ;D
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roseway

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Re: 3rd party testing
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2011, 10:36:27 PM »

To give you a rough estimate, I also live 3 km from the exchange, my attenuation is 41 dB, and I normally connect at about 6000 kbps on ADSL (I don't have access to ADSL2+). I think my figures are pretty typical of users with similar line lengths. With ADSL2+ the connection speed could be about 8000 kbps.

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  Eric