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Author Topic: FTTC- Possible REIN Issues?  (Read 63509 times)

magicone

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Re: FTTC- Possible REIN Issues?
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2011, 12:32:00 PM »

Had two more BT Openreach engineers round today and explained to them the problems I have been having and what the previous engineers have done so far. They said my only two options now are to do a 'lift and shift' or change the port at the cabinet.

We have however now seen a pattern emerging, the connection is dropping off at around 10am every day and the engineers were actually here when it dropped again at 10.15am. They told me that their colleagues at the office were also seeing the same thing. The engineer has recommended getting a REIN tester to the property now. He has gone back to the office and is now waiting to here back from them.

I am waiting for my neighbour to get back home so I can ask him if he is having the same issues.
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razpag

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Re: FTTC- Possible REIN Issues?
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2011, 04:17:06 PM »

Good. Sounds like you're getting nearer mate.

'Timed' drop-outs really can only be 1 of 2 things as the engineers have said. Either faulty DSL equipment in the exchange/ Fibre Cabinet (Lift & Shift), or REIN.

Don't know if you've read other threads on REIN, but you could use a portable radio set on the AM/MW range and tuned into 612Khz frequency. Then, at about 10am have a walk around your house and see if there's any evidence of REIN. You'll know it when you hear it, as in a REIN-free zone its relatively quiet on the radio, just background 'hissing', but when its prevalent the noise level goes up a lot. Put the radio next to your electrical meter and you should get an idea what it will sound like.

I'll be honest and say, I'd be surprised if the engineers get a REIN visit before a Lift and Shift is attempted. Its part of the protocol we have to adhere to on the crib sheet. REIN engineers will only usually attend if we have done a L&S,D-side change,E-side change,Fitted new NTE5,Fitted a RF3 filter, Fitted a NTE2000. I've not had call to get them out recently, so not sure if the process is still the same.

Anyhows, best of luck with it. :)
« Last Edit: February 25, 2011, 04:19:11 PM by razpag »
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magicone

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Re: FTTC- Possible REIN Issues?
« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2011, 04:41:31 PM »

Good. Sounds like you're getting nearer mate.

'Timed' drop-outs really can only be 1 of 2 things as the engineers have said. Either faulty DSL equipment in the exchange/ Fibre Cabinet (Lift & Shift), or REIN.

Don't know if you've read other threads on REIN, but you could use a portable radio set on the AM/MW range and tuned into 612Khz frequency. Then, at about 10am have a walk around your house and see if there's any evidence of REIN. You'll know it when you hear it, as in a REIN-free zone its relatively quiet on the radio, just background 'hissing', but when its prevalent the noise level goes up a lot. Put the radio next to your electrical meter and you should get an idea what it will sound like.

I'll be honest and say, I'd be surprised if the engineers get a REIN visit before a Lift and Shift is attempted. Its part of the protocol we have to adhere to on the crib sheet. REIN engineers will only usually attend if we have done a L&S,D-side change,E-side change,Fitted new NTE5,Fitted a RF3 filter, Fitted a NTE2000. I've not had call to get them out recently, so not sure if the process is still the same.

Anyhows, best of luck with it. :)

Yesterday one by one I switched off everything in the house and the problem was still there, I have been round the house with a portable radio tuned into 612Khz frequency and I cannot hear anything out of the ordinary.

I am still waiting for my neighbours to get back home now so I can ask them if they have had any similar problems.

The engineer didn't sound very confident that Openreach could get the REIN engineer out , presumably because of what you say that they have to rule out the other issues first. I hope this gets sorted soon as I tend to work from home in the evenings, it wasn't so much of an issue before because the connection used to be stable enough after I got back from work, however now pretty much from 10am-10pm its almost dial-up speeds.

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razpag

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Re: FTTC- Possible REIN Issues?
« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2011, 04:54:13 PM »

The only sure-fire way to know, would be to completely switch off all breakers in your electrical fuse board, apart from the ring-main running your PC/Hub.
Unplug any other items connected to that particular ring-main, so in effect, you only have your PC and Hub working in the entire house. I assume that your speeds are extremely low now as you comment it happens between 10am-10pm ?

I would then power-cycle the Hub and see what your connection speed is. If it's back to full whack, It looks likely the offending electrical item is in your house, if the speeds are still slow, then the REIN is probably external, or the L&S is needed. :)
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magicone

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Re: FTTC- Possible REIN Issues?
« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2011, 05:38:57 PM »

The only sure-fire way to know, would be to completely switch off all breakers in your electrical fuse board, apart from the ring-main running your PC/Hub.
Unplug any other items connected to that particular ring-main, so in effect, you only have your PC and Hub working in the entire house. I assume that your speeds are extremely low now as you comment it happens between 10am-10pm ?

I would then power-cycle the Hub and see what your connection speed is. If it's back to full whack, It looks likely the offending electrical item is in your house, if the speeds are still slow, then the REIN is probably external, or the L&S is needed. :)

Already tried that, we switched off all the fuses apart from the the ring-main the modem was connected to, then the only thing that was connected was the BT Openreach modem and it was still disconnecting.

Speeds are low yes now as I type, this is now happening from 10am -10pm most nights, it used to only happen before 5pm before so it has got worse.

I have not been called back by Openreach which means I will have to chase my ISP again .  :thumbdown:

Just enquired about Virgin cable, £30 for 50 Down/5 Up, may not have a choice if things don't improve :-(.
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magicone

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Re: FTTC- Possible REIN Issues?
« Reply #20 on: February 25, 2011, 10:59:12 PM »

Right I am going out with my radio tomorrow, there is now a very clear pattern emerging now, the interference starts at 10am and stops dead at 10pm later that evening.

Luckily there is only 300metres between my property and the exchange so should be fairly easy to find.

What I would like to know is what sort of sound should I be looking out for? Will it be obvious?

Thanks
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Oranged

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Re: FTTC- Possible REIN Issues?
« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2011, 12:16:08 AM »

What I would like to know is what sort of sound should I be looking out for? Will it be obvious?

Eliminate the obvious.

What is the environment around you ?

Industrial estate ?

Farms ?

City centre ?
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magicone

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Re: FTTC- Possible REIN Issues?
« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2011, 06:55:43 AM »

What I would like to know is what sort of sound should I be looking out for? Will it be obvious?

Eliminate the obvious.

What is the environment around you ?

Industrial estate ?

Farms ?

City centre ?

I live in a terraced house at the end of a road in a small town. There are only 2 routes that the cable can take to get to the cabinet. On the route there are the following:

- Residential properties
- A number of street lights
- Telegraph poles
- A pub
- A housed electrical sub-station(only a few metres from the cab)
- Two small businesses(directly behind the cab)

Which of the above should I be looking at more closely? Just be aware that according to the last engineer I am the only person connected to that fibre cab. I am not sure if the copper for ADSL runs through the same route as fibre.

Thanks
« Last Edit: February 26, 2011, 07:04:59 AM by magicone »
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razpag

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Re: FTTC- Possible REIN Issues?
« Reply #23 on: February 26, 2011, 07:25:10 AM »

Honestly ?, could be any one of the items you mention.

We had a whole village knocked out by a street light that was approx 4Km from the actual village. The most common culprits are a certain make of set-top viewing box, white goods brought in by our East European cousins, street lighting.

You really need to ask if your neighbours are experiencing the same issues though. If not, it could well be down to the mains power that feeds the Fibre Cabinet. Seeing as you believe you are the only one on it, then if you are the only one getting constant drop-outs it could be linked to that.

However, it sounds more like a residential type dwelling/ The pub that could be responsible emitting REIN. Especially with those timings 10-10. Pubs open at 11ish, is it something being switched on in there ??? If it is REIN, it's not the easiest of problems to find.

PS ....... re-read my post above regarding noise when using a radio.
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magicone

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Re: FTTC- Possible REIN Issues?
« Reply #24 on: February 26, 2011, 08:25:50 AM »

Thanks, just as a matter of interest do you know if it is possible to hire a REIN engineer that isn't employed through BT/Ofcom? I am going to try my best to locate the source myself but as you say it is not going to be easy,especially as I only have limited equipment.

I will speak to my neighbours today, I am waiting for the interference to kick in and then I will speak to them so they can see the issue for themselves first hand.





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waltergmw

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Re: FTTC- Possible REIN Issues?
« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2011, 08:25:55 AM »

I like RazPag's idea of a long term detailed study of the activities within the Pub !

I would also add faulty home plugs and particularly the WiFi ones to the list of culprits. We had a unit which took out 18 services.
Apart from finding the fault, one of the most challenging parts was convincing several white-van loads that they ought to be talking to each other !

Kind regards,
Walter
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magicone

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Re: FTTC- Possible REIN Issues?
« Reply #26 on: February 26, 2011, 10:15:35 AM »

The problem has just started again, so I went out armed with my portable radio.

I thought it was best to follow the BT manhole covers as the problem may be around the surrounding area.

First manhole cover no noise at all, however just past the second manhole I found the radio was getting louder and louder as I approached a telegraph pole. It was sort of the same noise I got as I got closer to my fusebox. Just to double and triple check I moved back and forwards towards the pole and it was getting louder and louder.

So,

1. Is this normal for a telegraph pole? Picture below.
2. How do I get Openreach interested so they can check out the telegraph pole?

« Last Edit: February 26, 2011, 10:20:50 AM by magicone »
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jeffbb

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Re: FTTC- Possible REIN Issues?
« Reply #27 on: February 26, 2011, 11:16:21 AM »

Hi

To confirm your suspicions you will need to show that when you have NO noise there is NO noise by this same pole .

Regards Jeff
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magicone

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Re: FTTC- Possible REIN Issues?
« Reply #28 on: February 26, 2011, 11:26:15 AM »

Hi

To confirm your suspicions you will need to show that when you have NO noise there is NO noise by this same pole .

Regards Jeff

Good thinking! I will have to wait until after 10pm to do this test, I will report back with my findings!
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razpag

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Re: FTTC- Possible REIN Issues?
« Reply #29 on: February 26, 2011, 12:18:22 PM »

Walter  ;D ;D

Magicone ....... it's great you've heard the noise (we can only assume it's REIN at the moment) at the DP (Telegraph pole). However, it wont be the pole itself, or any of the wires coming off it that will be the cause of the noise.

Wherever the suspected REIN is originating from, it will induct into the dropwire feeding that premises and in effect, work it's way back to the DP and that's when it begins to affect other Dropwires. Is it possible for you to follow each individual wire off the DP to localise the one thats giving the 'Noise' ???

PS .... you will look like a right daft git doing this, I know as I've had to do it myself a couple of times. But, with my bright yellow Hi-Vis jacket, I at least look like I'm there in some sort of officious capacity. You are just gonna look like you've lost the plot. I admire your cajones mate. ;D ;D
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