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[mjuk]

Hi All,

This is my first post as I am hitting a brick wall with my ISP so thought someone else might be able to help as do not want to change ISP to have same problem.

After being continually frustrated with the speed of my internet, i started looking into why it was so slow and discovered the following after numerous internet searches and phone calls to my ISP.

I live approx 1.5km from the exchange and 1.6km by road. I have ADSL and ADSL MAX available in my area & should get up to 5.5-6.0 megs given where i live from exchange. When I do bb availability tests - it appears for my particular property that I am on a fixed ADSL and NOT ADLS MAX. My neighbours are on ADSL MAX (further away from exchange) and looking at people on same exchange and further away who are experiencing speeds from 3.4 - 6.3 megs.

I have done all the internal tests to ensure it is not at my end. My ISP has contacted BT wholesale who say my line is fixed at 512kbps for a 'specific reason' but they cant tell me why!! Their generic answer is ' the length & quality of the line' - why is it only my house and not my neighbours & further afield.This herein lies my frustration... as the rest of the road doesnt have this restriction on their line then to me that would indicate some sort of fault which would mean an engineer should come to check my line from road to my house?

But no - BT wholesale nor my ISP do not see this as a fault and that it is just tough and moving ISP (according to my ISP), I would end up with the the same problem. BT engineer will only come out if my speed falls below 99kbps!! I have been paying for a service which i thought could achieve speeds up to 8megs (well 5.5megs for my area) but turns out I am not even on ADSL MAX and only was brought to my attention after many phone calls!

I am reluctantly looking to move ISP as perhaps another ISP will be able to send out an engineer to investigate why my house can't achieve speeds as my ISP point blankly refuses to send an engineer so I am stuck at 0.5meg forever with them!!!! How can I ensure if I move ISP this will be the same issue - is it true that BT Wholesale do not listen unless your line is below 99kbps as my ISP has implied?? NO LLUS available in my area - only ADSL and ADSL MAX so stuck using BT lines.

If anyone can please shed any light or advise what steps I should take would be much appreciated??

My Stats are as follows:

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 576 kbps 288 kbps
Line Attenuation 24 db 6.5 db
Noise Margin 31 db 29 db
IP Profile 0.5meg

My ISP is Virgin Media

Thanks for reading!

[roseway]

Hi and welcome,

Your stats indicate that you would have a much faster connection on ADSL Max. You should get the full 8128 kbps speed. The only proviso is that, maybe, there is some problem with the line which results in wild swings in the noise margin over time. You could check this out by installing Routerstats or Routerstats-Lite to monitor the downstream noise margin for a while. If the noise margin doesn't vary by more than a few dB over the day and night, then there should be no reason not to be regraded to a Max connection.

No engineer visit should be necessary unless there are big swings in the noise margin; the figures speak for themselves. If VM are unwilling to help, it looks as though a change of ISP is the only option.

[mjuk]

Thanks, Eric for your reply   
This is why it is so confusing... as VM (or BT wholesale apparently) cannot tell me why I am not on ADSL MAX even though everyone else is (they had previously said I was)... I will download the routerstats and track my noise margin. 

Could it have anything to do with my telephony provider or a previous ISP from previous owners? For example,  if I moved everything to BT (telephony with TalkTalk) would this help?

Kirsty

[roseway]

It's difficult to know how it happened, but there may have been stability problems with your line in the past. The really irritating thing (for you) is that your ISP isn't really trying to get it sorted.

[waltergmw]

Hi Kirsty,

I don't think changing your phone provider would have much effect, and might confuse matters even more.
My approach would be to try the fault call again demanding to speak to a supervisor.
After that threaten to move your ISP after talking to accounts stating that their service is not fit for purpose.
If you do need to move you should probably try one of the more expensive ISPs on a 30 day contract such as Zen or AAISP.
I would ignore the statement that moving ISP will have no effect as your new ISP is bound to set up a new service which should force BT Openreach / Wholesale to reconfigure your service.

Kind regards,
Walter

[mjuk]

Thanks, Walter, for your advice & letting me know about the 30 day contract ISPs .  I have yet to talk to a supervisor so will try that route although think might post on their forum &/or write letter as well as verbal communication has not helped to date.

Do you know if ISPs are more likely to take action when posted to the ISP's forum?

Eric - I have logged my router stats at different times and have been perfectly constant...but guess the explanation would be that at the low IP profile 500kbps it should be perfectly stable?  I get the impression that for BT Openreach/Wholesale (or rather VM?!) to 'fix' the issue (whatever that may be) is not worth the money.

I have read somewhere that our line is due to upgrade to ADSL +2 in March 2011 - would this help my situation?

Kirsty

[roseway]

Eric - I have logged my router stats at different times and have been perfectly constant...but guess the explanation would be that at the low IP profile 500kbps it should be perfectly stable?

Certainly you would expect the connection to be very stable, but if your downstream noise margin stays high at all times then your connection would definitely benefit from regrading to Max.

I have read somewhere that our line is due to upgrade to ADSL +2 in March 2011 - would this help my situation?

You should get speeds up to about 18 Mbps with ADSL2+, but your present problem seems to be bureaucratic rather than technical, so there might be difficulty getting upgraded to ADSL2+. I think your best option is to nag your ISP as Walter suggested, and if that fails, then consider changing to a more helpful ISP.

I don't have a lot of faith in ISP's forums as ways of solving this sort of problem, but it wouldn't do any harm to post a message on the VM forum.

[mjuk]

Thanks, Eric.
In theory, would my Noise margin remain unchanged regardless of what IP profile I am on?

[roseway]

There's a slight confusion of terms here. The IP profile is part of ADSL Max (and BT's implementation of ADSL2+), and is set automatically by BT's systems, based on the connection speed. What you have isn't an IP profile, it's a fixed speed connection.

The noise margin varies inversely with the connection speed. So if you regrade to ADSL Max, your speed will increase and the noise margin will decrease. With Max and ADSL2+ a target noise margin is set (initially 6 dB on BT systems) and the router connects at the highest speed it can without causing the noise margin to fall below the target.

[mjuk]

Thanks for the clarification.  It took me a while to get my ISP to admit I wasn't even on ADLS MAX even when asked directly thus adding to my confusion over the IP profile as there was a lot of talk of IP Profiles.

Would my current stats influence the speeds I can achieve on ADSL MAX or is the fixed ADSL stats (ie attentuation and noise margin) totally unrelated? If this is the case then I would have room to move upwards on speed to come to my stable state/IP Profile on MAX?  As VM are so convinced that I cannot get ADSL MAX on my isolated line regardless of the rest of the exchange.
 
Is 6db the lowest margin to support ADSL MAX?  Apologies if these are novice questions but just trying to get a better understanding...

[HPsauce]

Is 6db the lowest margin to support ADSL MAX? 

When you're running via BT equipment, effectively yes.
But the phrase is not "to support" it's "set as a target on".

My LLU ADSL2+ line has a target SNRM of 3dB and runs happily at over 20mbps. It's maybe just 200 metres shorter than yours.   

[mjuk]

I just spoke with VM and spoke with someone that sort of tried to explain why I am fixed at 576kbps and said it was the noise back from my router to them.  He said the target noise margin is between 6-15db and at 31db this is double which indicates too much noise so my line has been fixed to prevent it going even slower...  they can/will only request the cap to be lifted if the noise levels reduce.  Whilst i was on the phone he saw a 327db (?) for a milisecond but that didn't register on my stats at my end?!
He suggested to try a new router as a starter to check that my router isn't faulty (have Netgear DG834G) and the only way I can log a potential fault on my copper wire is to go via my phone provider as it is to them I pay line rental..
 Still irate that  I have been unknowingly capped and this fact had not been communicated!!
Any other suggestions/input appreciated?

[UncleUB]

Any other suggestions/input appreciated?

With VM its like  

So I would have thought a request for a mac code is the answer and go as Walter has said with a knowledgeable isp on a monthly contract.

A few I would put into that category are

www.idnet.com

www.zen.co.uk

www.newnet.co.uk

www.aaisp.com

[HPsauce]

He said the target noise margin is between 6-15db and at 31db this is double which indicates too much noise so my line has been fixed to prevent it going even slower

That is just so much total bo***cks!  

Firstly, it's a logarithmic scale so 31dB is NOT twice 15dB.
The actual ratio with those numbers is more like 40 to 1!

And it's the other way round, so a 31dB noise margin means a VERY VERY VERY low level of noise. Which is GOOD. 
Compared to my 3dB it's actually about one thousandth of my (relative) noise level.

(and 327dB would just mean the noise had effectively disappeared briefly, hardly a problem!)

Get thee to a decent ISP ASAP!  


PS With a fixed speed line there's no such thing as a target so more drivel being spoken there!

[roseway]

I was just about to say the same, but HP got there first. VM are talking absolute drivel.