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Author Topic: "Bouncy Line" & erratic upstream attenuation  (Read 6167 times)

MrE

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"Bouncy Line" & erratic upstream attenuation
« on: October 03, 2010, 11:17:28 AM »

Hi all my first post so pls be gentle with me.
Ok so i have been having lots of trouble with my broadband of late & will try to keep this brief & clear lol

For the last month my download speed has dropped from 3.5 Mbt to 0.3 Mbt, I have had two BT engineer visits (no fault found) & several profile changes (down by default due to intermittent line drops & up following my pushing my isp)
I am now on a "Super stable connection" which has been up for 110 hrs now ... a record since this trouble began, but as yet profile has not increassed from 500 down & 880 up.
I am now on my third router a new netgear DGN 1000, & i have noticed that upstream attenuation & SNRM are droping to zero(from 31db & 7 to 0db & 0)
Also i think the attenuation is high given that i am only 2.2k from the exchange (as the crow flies), I know the line will be longer but as a gut instinct it seems disproportionate given the local geography.

Finaly just to add a little more spice to the reciepe lol. Ever since i moved to the property there has been very quiet but persistant crackle on the telephone. it is so quiet i ignored it. But since the line was made "super stable" a few days ago it has got a little louder & also a high pitched constant noice is there. When I use the phone my SNRM up & down increases my at least 1db
Please help as I dont think the erratic nature is normal!! I will give any more info that I can..... like that wasnt a rant already! LOL
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UncleUB

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Re: "Bouncy Line" & erratic upstream attenuation
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2010, 11:41:28 AM »

Hi and welcome  :)

Line stats please,how to post them here

http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/frogstats.php

If you are experiencing noise on your line then that could be a line fault.Dial 17070,option 2 and listen for any crackling etc.

Who is your isp,?

Can you plug the router directly into the main BT socket,this will help eliminate any internal wiring/extensions problems.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2010, 11:43:52 AM by UncleUB »
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roseway

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Re: "Bouncy Line" & erratic upstream attenuation
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2010, 11:48:01 AM »

[I see that UncleUB got in first, but I'll post this anyway.]

Hi and welcome

First, can you copy your router stats here, so that we can get a handle on the characteristics of your connection.

It's not possible for the upstream (or downstream) attenuation to drop to zero, so this is some kind of reporting fault. Are you using Routerstats perhaps? If so, it's a fairly common occurrence that it will fail to collect a sample from the router when the router is busy at the time, and when this happens it reports zero values.

The background noises could be the result of inadequate filters, so I suggest that you change them if you haven't already done so.

To eliminate your own household wiring as a possible cause of trouble, you could try connecting the router to the test socket (underneath the master socket faceplate).
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  Eric

MrE

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Re: "Bouncy Line" & erratic upstream attenuation
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2010, 12:02:21 PM »

Aww file was to big
ok
yes have tried master socket = no change
yes I am now using Routerstats program but first noticed in the normal router page.... never noticed on earlier routers but never looked.... anybody heard of this with a new DGN100?

System Up Time 331:37:25
Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up Time
WAN PPPoA 269792 407453 0 104 1137 116:29:49
LAN 10M/100M 1868841 1431697 0 1866 211 331:37:06
WLAN 11M/54M/150M 814255 325136 0 833 18 331:26:11
 

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 568 kbps 882 kbps
Line Attenuation 55.4 db 31.2 db
Noise Margin 8.3 db 6.9 db
 
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MrE

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Re: "Bouncy Line" & erratic upstream attenuation
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2010, 12:10:23 PM »

just a copy of graph from Routerstats
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MrE

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Re: "Bouncy Line" & erratic upstream attenuation
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2010, 12:24:55 PM »

So ..... dont know if this is normal or if it helps but,
Have just tried the am radio trick & when I held it next to the modem it reproduced the exact sounds I can hear on the BT quiet line test complete with the high pitched noise.
Thoughts please ?
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silversurfer44

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Re: "Bouncy Line" & erratic upstream attenuation
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2010, 12:31:57 PM »

How are you connecting to the router please? Are you using ethernet or wifi?
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Colin II : It's no good being a pessimist, it wouldn't work anyway.

MrE

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Re: "Bouncy Line" & erratic upstream attenuation
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2010, 12:37:05 PM »

Ethernet to PC & currently wifi to ps3 as am only using the leads that came with the router..
ps tried 3 different micro filters (ones that came with the routers)
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roseway

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Re: "Bouncy Line" & erratic upstream attenuation
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2010, 12:52:16 PM »

Looking at your router stats, there's clearly something very wrong with the connection. Your downstream connection speed is much lower than it should be. And your Routerstats graph is a mess - if the connection is really behaving like that (as opposed to false reporting) then the connection should be virtually unusable.

Rather than guessing at causes, I think you will have to work through the possibilities in a logical fashion. Have a read of the troubleshooting guide and see if this helps you to home in on the cause.

I don't think you can infer anything much from holding the radio close to the router and hearing noise. But if the noise is similar to what you hear on the telephone, then that does suggest either a faulty router or filters, or some sort of line fault. As you've tried different routers and different filters, it looks a bit like a line fault.
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  Eric

MrE

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Re: "Bouncy Line" & erratic upstream attenuation
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2010, 01:21:57 PM »

Yeah have tried everything I can see in troubleshooting previously with no joy

What gets me is if the SNRM & att are misreporting why do I get an increase in SNRM of 1db(both up & down) when I am doing a quiet line test (see attached).
I dont want to change modem again to varify the reporting as will give a line drop.
This modem makes the internet most usable (slow but stable) the Huawei worst then then Edimax (both lead to internet explorer showing cannot display webpage messages)
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MrE

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Re: "Bouncy Line" & erratic upstream attenuation
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2010, 01:39:03 PM »

ok ran tracert & got though not sure what it all means or what i can do with it !

C:\Users\Mark>tracert www.bbc.co.uk

Tracing route to www.bbc.net.uk [212.58.244.66]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.0.1
  2    27 ms    26 ms    26 ms  lns15.the.dsl.enta.net [188.39.0.18]
  3    27 ms    26 ms    26 ms  gi1-5.the.dist.dsl.enta.net [188.39.0.17]
  4    26 ms    27 ms    26 ms  te2-2.telehouse-east3.dsl.enta.net [78.33.141.81
]
  5    27 ms    26 ms    26 ms  te5-2.telehouse-east.core.enta.net [62.249.192.1
21]
  6    27 ms    26 ms    27 ms  te5-1.telehouse-east2.core.enta.net [87.127.236.
98]
  7    32 ms    26 ms    26 ms  212.58.238.177
  8    27 ms    26 ms    26 ms  212.58.238.129
  9    27 ms    26 ms    26 ms  212.58.239.58
 10    27 ms    26 ms    27 ms  212.58.251.44
 11    27 ms    27 ms    27 ms  bbc-vip111.telhc.bbc.co.uk [212.58.244.66]

Trace complete.

C:\Users\Mark>tracert www.bbc.co.uk

Tracing route to www.bbc.net.uk [212.58.246.94]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms     1 ms  192.168.0.1
  2    26 ms    27 ms    26 ms  lns15.the.dsl.enta.net [188.39.0.18]
  3    27 ms    27 ms    26 ms  gi1-5.the.dist.dsl.enta.net [188.39.0.17]
  4    27 ms    27 ms    27 ms  te2-2.telehouse-east3.dsl.enta.net [78.33.141.81
]
  5    26 ms    26 ms    27 ms  te5-2.telehouse-east.core.enta.net [62.249.192.1
21]
  6    26 ms    26 ms    27 ms  te5-1.telehouse-east2.core.enta.net [87.127.236.
98]
  7    26 ms    26 ms    27 ms  212.58.238.177
  8    27 ms    27 ms    26 ms  212.58.238.129
  9    28 ms    27 ms    27 ms  te12-1.hsw0.cwwtf.bbc.co.uk [212.58.239.222]
 10    27 ms    28 ms    27 ms  212.58.255.12
 11    28 ms    28 ms    28 ms  bbc-vip015.cwwtf.bbc.co.uk [212.58.246.94]

Trace complete.

C:\Users\Mark>tracert www.bbc.co.uk

Tracing route to www.bbc.net.uk [212.58.246.94]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.0.1
  2    27 ms    26 ms    26 ms  lns15.the.dsl.enta.net [188.39.0.18]
  3    26 ms    26 ms    26 ms  gi1-5.the.dist.dsl.enta.net [188.39.0.17]
  4    26 ms    26 ms    26 ms  te2-2.telehouse-east3.dsl.enta.net [78.33.141.81
]
  5    27 ms    26 ms    26 ms  te5-2.telehouse-east.core.enta.net [62.249.192.1
21]
  6    26 ms    26 ms    27 ms  te5-1.telehouse-east2.core.enta.net [87.127.236.
98]
  7    26 ms    26 ms    27 ms  212.58.238.177
  8    26 ms    26 ms    26 ms  212.58.238.129
  9    27 ms    27 ms    28 ms  te12-1.hsw0.cwwtf.bbc.co.uk [212.58.239.222]
 10    27 ms    27 ms    28 ms  212.58.255.12
 11    28 ms    28 ms    28 ms  bbc-vip015.cwwtf.bbc.co.uk [212.58.246.94]

Trace complete.
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roseway

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Re: "Bouncy Line" & erratic upstream attenuation
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2010, 02:10:17 PM »

Those tracert results are quite normal. No problem there.

I think there's little doubt that you have a line fault, possibly a defective line card. There seem to be two approaches:

1. Report the noise on the line as a voice fault (dial 151 and don't mention broadband). This might get a result.

2. Go back to your ISP and insist that there is a fault which isn't of your making, and ask for a visit from an SFI (special faults investigation) engineer. The risk here is that you'll end up getting charged for the visit if the engineer can't find the fault.
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  Eric

MrE

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Re: "Bouncy Line" & erratic upstream attenuation
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2010, 02:20:34 PM »

ok cool,
My ISP did say they would get an SFI engineer but then the line stabilized after they made it "super stable" & that if it drops again they would book this.
Think I will wait till tomorrow if the connection holds then will report voice fault. I have been nevouse of that because although I can hear disturbance on the quiet test it is much quieter than the womans voice. Should the line really be totally silent?
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roseway

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Re: "Bouncy Line" & erratic upstream attenuation
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2010, 02:25:46 PM »

You certainly shouldn't hear any crackling on the quiet line test. The most you should hear is a very faint hum/hiss.
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  Eric

khayos

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Re: "Bouncy Line" & erratic upstream attenuation
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2010, 05:52:58 PM »

Ask your ISP to check the DS SNR margin over 7 days for paterns in the fluctuation. If there is a pattern, check your internal equipment first for REIN issues. ( http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/rein.htm ) If you can't see anything, you will have to risk the engineer charges and get an SFI out, as SFI can't do throughput tests, compile your own before the engineer visit, showing your router stats and also 5 pathping results to 5 websites which could show packet loss.

If there is no pattern, ask a neigbour for another router to add to the line to monitor your SNR ranges for a few days to rule out equipment. Like another poster above, if you can hear the noise on your line, report it as a line fault.

Khayos
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