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Author Topic: Sunny Sunday Soundings 19th Sept.  (Read 6622 times)

UncleUB

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Re: Sunny Sunday Soundings 19th Sept.
« Reply #30 on: September 21, 2010, 10:52:02 AM »

Quote
As a side issue, interesting on that photo, taken in June, there is the dreaded finger smudge..

I did notice that  :-[

And knew that you would as well  :graduate:  ;D


Quote
Oooops...............yessiree...wrong hood on the wrong lens..

 :-[ once again........Saying that,I am very grateful of any criticism,its all helping to make me a better photographer,so don't hold back I can take it  :baby:  :D
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roseway

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Re: Sunny Sunday Soundings 19th Sept.
« Reply #31 on: September 21, 2010, 11:14:26 AM »

On the subject of adventurousness, the picture with the wrong lens hood has a certain quality about it which could be quite attractive. It almost looks as though the picture was taken through a telescope (or a porthole perhaps). With the right sort of subject it could produce a very nice result.

I'm obviously no expert, but can I suggest, Phil, that you set the camera dial to P? By default it's the same as fully automatic, but in 'P' mode you can change individual settings one at a time while leaving everything else on automatic. I've got mine set to disable the flash, and I've found it handy for increasing the ISO setting in order to get some natural light pictures in a dark wood.

By the way, I second TD's comments about this batch of pictures - they're lovely. :)
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  Eric

UncleUB

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Re: Sunny Sunday Soundings 19th Sept.
« Reply #32 on: September 21, 2010, 03:26:36 PM »

I have just been having a play at changing the aperture values.Taking the same shot of a plant on the window sill I notice that the higher you set the aperture the more focused the area is around the subject matter.
I took one at 5.6 and the outside sky just looked white,but when I took the same shot upping it to 11.0 then you could make out all the clouds.

Am I talking sense here or just rambling?
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tuftedduck

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Re: Sunny Sunday Soundings 19th Sept.
« Reply #33 on: September 21, 2010, 03:57:08 PM »

>>> Am I talking sense here or just rambling? <<<

You are talking sense, unkyUb...........and the effect you are seeing is the very reason that we have variable apertures in cameras......creativity

It is all to do with depth-of-field (DOF)..........the amount of back to front sharpness in an image.

The bigger the "f" number used ( ie 11 instead of 5.6 ) the more DOF you get ............the smaller the number, the less DOF you get.

What you are seeing when using f11 is the fact that at that aperture value, the lens can render sharp both the close (or near-to) subject and the clouds in the background.......whilst when using a smaller value of f5.6 the lens can resolve the near to subject as sharp whilst distant objects lose sharpness and become blurred. In the case you mention, the background clouds are blurred out to such an extent that they have become totally featureless and just looked white.

Now this is where you can start to get a bit creative... ;D....lets take two of your recent images as samples.

Flatford Mill...........in this case you want a nice landscape with everything from your toecaps to the horizon to be pin sharp and in focus..use a big f number, 11, 16, 22

Church interior...Sue lit a candle for Blue.......focus on that candle and use a small f number, 2, 2.8, 4, 5.6 ........the candle is rendered nice and sharp but the background goes out of focus and blurs out, giving a sharp candle without anything in the background to distract from it.
In this case you need to experiment a bit with regard to getting the right f number....you may want some background feature showing, some definition there to suit the shot. In time and with practice you will learn just what effect you can expect at any one f number.

There now, get practicing  ;)
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UncleUB

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Re: Sunny Sunday Soundings 19th Sept.
« Reply #34 on: September 21, 2010, 04:00:36 PM »

Thanks TD (once again) for you excellent help :clap2: :)
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silversurfer44

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Re: Sunny Sunday Soundings 19th Sept.
« Reply #35 on: September 21, 2010, 04:18:08 PM »

Hopefully I am not jumping ahead here, but I notice the lack of mention of shutter speed. Not having played with these digital cameras I don't know if they have such a control. Would someone enlighten me please.
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Colin II : It's no good being a pessimist, it wouldn't work anyway.

tuftedduck

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Re: Sunny Sunday Soundings 19th Sept.
« Reply #36 on: September 21, 2010, 05:04:32 PM »

@ ss44..........yes, unkyUb's camera has shutter speed controls, manual and auto ans of course you would vary these speeds in parallel with varying the aperture in order to keep to the correct exposure.

Just going step at a time for the moment.  :) 

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silversurfer44

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Re: Sunny Sunday Soundings 19th Sept.
« Reply #37 on: September 21, 2010, 05:10:11 PM »

Sorry I didn't mean to go too fast, it's just that shutter speed doesn't seem to be mentioned in other tutorials either.
Thank you for the answer though.
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Colin II : It's no good being a pessimist, it wouldn't work anyway.

tuftedduck

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Re: Sunny Sunday Soundings 19th Sept.
« Reply #38 on: September 21, 2010, 05:21:23 PM »

I did once post a long ramble about DOF,................. the relationships between aperture and shutter speeds, the variances achieved by using different focal lengths, those achieved by varying the camera to subject distance , how and why the normal rules vitually reverse themselves in macro photography etc. etc.

I was hoping to link back to that....but can't find it. It was some time in mid 2008, I think. Am still looking for it.
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scottiesmum

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Re: Sunny Sunday Soundings 19th Sept.
« Reply #39 on: September 21, 2010, 10:34:31 PM »

Is it in this topic TD ? 

http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,7713.0.html


hope so  :)
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UncleUB

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Re: Sunny Sunday Soundings 19th Sept.
« Reply #40 on: September 22, 2010, 06:42:19 AM »

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tuftedduck

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Re: Sunny Sunday Soundings 19th Sept.
« Reply #41 on: September 22, 2010, 07:10:00 AM »

Good morning scottiesmum and unkyUb.

Thank you both for trying to help me find the "missing" post, but unfortunately neither of the suggestions you post is the one I was thinking about..... :(

Not to worry, will scribble it out again and repost....this may take some time.. ;D

Thanks again for your help.  :)
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tuftedduck

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Re: Sunny Sunday Soundings 19th Sept.
« Reply #42 on: September 22, 2010, 09:15:06 AM »

Before going on to chat about the relationship between aperture and shutter speed, a wee note about apertures.

A lot of newbies to photography get confused about this subject as the aperture scale on a camera is maybe a bit baffling in
that the numbers we talk about don't, at first glance, make any sense.

The number sequence runs 2, 2.8, 4, 5.6, 8, 11. 16, 22, 32 and it is difficult at first to equate that sequence with the fact
that as you move from one number to the next you are either doubling or halving the size ( diameter) of the aperture. Afer
all, the numbers themselves are not doubling or halving so how come they are having that effect on the physiacl dimensions
of the aperture ?

Well, the fact is that these numbers represent not the simple diameter of the aperture but the ratio between that diameter
and the focal length of the lens.
This is why these numbers are usually described as "ƒ " numbers, ƒ being the mathematical symbol for ratio.

(TD will get tired copying and pasting ƒ all the time so will instead call it F ).

So the sequence of numbers in the aperture scale is really F2, F2.8, F4 etc.

Now those of you with a mathematical turn of mind ( and that does not include TD so please comment if I am wrong ) you
will know that if you wish to double or halve a ratio, you multiply/divide the factor not by 2  but by 1.44 ( near enough)
Using this, the sequence of aperture values makes sense........F2 multply by 1.44 gives F2.8 (near enough), F2.8 multiply by
1.44 gives F4 ( near enough ) and so on.

Using that set of values it is now apparent that when you go up and down the aperture scale, you are in fact halving or
doubling the ratio aperture to lens...effectively doubling/halving the size of the hole ( iris or aperture ) though which the light
has to pass.


As these numbers represent ratios between aperture diameter and focal length, what happens when we change the focal
length of the lens....either by zooming in and out or by swapping lenses ?

It means that F2.8 on a wide angle lens and F2.8 on a telephoto lens will give the same exposure value......the focal length
is different, the physical diameter of the aperture will be different...but the ratio invoked in each lens  is constant and the
exposure value will be constant between the two lenses

The next thing that can confuse is the fact that as the numbers in the aperture scale increase from say F2 to F2.8 the
aperture value does not increase, as might be expected....it decreases ( again because the F number is a ratio.)
So as you progress through the scale from F2 to F16 say, the aperture diameter is getting smaller..it is halving in diameter
every time you move up from one number to the next ( or of course doubles in diameter if you are moving down the scale
of numbers.)

Why do we have these varying aperture sizes ? We have talked of it before...it is to adjust and control your depth of field,
the amount of back to front sharpness in an image. In rough terms, the higher the F number used, the more depth of field
you get..............earlier posts have mentioned the effect on depth of field when using different focal lengths/ camera to
subject distance and some other factors such as that.


These F numbers are very often described by photographers as "stops" and the act of going up and down the scale as
"stopping down" or "stopping up"
In the days of very early cameras, internal variable aperture devices had not been invented and the lenses themselves had
only one F number...the size of the lens throat through which the light passed.
Some bright spark, realising the need to control depth of field, created a set of brass plates, each with a different sized hole
punched in the middle with which to represent the aperture. These plates were effectively used to stop some light getting
through and were inserted in a slot between the lens and the camera body....they were called "stop" plates.........and
although we now have built in aperture adjustment..the term "stop" is still used.


Will write out note about shutter speed, then another about the relationship between the two and post in a bit. 
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scottiesmum

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Re: Sunny Sunday Soundings 19th Sept.
« Reply #43 on: September 22, 2010, 09:18:55 AM »

 :-[   TD   ... I have just realised I have your notes in my TD Photoclass Folder  ....  would you like me to post them all and you can pick out the bits you might need ?
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tuftedduck

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Re: Sunny Sunday Soundings 19th Sept.
« Reply #44 on: September 22, 2010, 09:21:24 AM »

Thanks for the offer, scottiesmum, that is most kind  :flower:

But no, not to worry and please don't go the trouble of doing that...won't take long to tap out some drivel.. ;D

Thanks again.  :)
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