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Author Topic: BT Phone wiring  (Read 18963 times)

kitz

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BT Phone wiring
« Reply #30 on: July 18, 2006, 12:15:39 AM »

>> Line Attenuation 51 db

Under "old rules" you would (or rather "should") have only been able to get 2Mb based on this figure alone...the atten does seem a tad high considering distance - but its possible that wiring can literally go all round the houses before it reaches your home.

However.

>> Noise Margin 13 db

This is good in view of attenuation figure you have a good nose margin and its over 12dB which is good.


Would I take this line to max??
 
based on those stats 3Mb speeds are a possibility
(I prefer to use Saffy's estimator - and remember the sync speed will be rounded down to the nearest .5Mb to set your bRAS profile)

You will get the increased upstream speeds - nps with upstream SNR.

Expect to see some disconnects during the training period whilst the DLM figures out whats best for your line.

Your line is just about ok for SNR Margin now - how it would cope with the higher speeds I dunno - evenings possibly may find you at around 2.5Mb and fluctuating... However, you have a stable 2Mb now so you shouldnt be any worse off.

Every line is different and no-one can predict what a line in particular will do.

Warning

The one thing that I didnt realise when making my previous post above is that your attn was 51dB - and BT would normally say "no way" for 2Mb traditional adsl - despite the fact that you are already on it.  Your ISP would have to fight like mad to get you back on 2Mb since its outside the normal scope since BT would say 1Mb. :/
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mr_chris

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BT Phone wiring
« Reply #31 on: July 18, 2006, 12:49:37 AM »

I'd just like to re-iterate the warning if I may...

As far as I know, nothing has changed as regards the criteria for the provision of fixed rate services.

BT say the attenuation must be below 43dB, regardless of the SNR. If you did go on Max and then regraded to a fixed line product, I would be pretty certain BT wouldn't allow a 2Mb order to be placed on the line. Ironic eh, but true.

Your ISP may be able to push through an order for 2Mb, but given your attenuation is so far over the BT limit, I'd think carefully.

Having said that, you have a decent SNR margin, and as Kitz says, you shouldn't be any worse off on Max, and would probably squeeze 2.5 or 3MB out of it. Plus you'd have the higher upstream.

I'd carefully monitor your SNR margin every half hour if you can, whenever you're in, to see what happens to it. SNR fluctuates during the day, sometimes by a large amount. (Higher SNR = better). If your SNR were to wander down into single figures, it may make Max a gamble that isn't really worth taking.

At the end of the day it's up to you of course :) Max isn't a bad thing, but it still has some teething probs and is quite new to BT. Perhaps wait a bit?
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Chris

feliscatusx2

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BT Phone wiring
« Reply #32 on: July 18, 2006, 07:38:11 PM »

I have one last possible plan, (Plan G).  My BT neighbour has said that he, or either of his sons (both BT Engineers, I wonder what they talk about in the evenings?) would be happy to move the Master Socket for a very fair price.  I no longer need the socket moved, but I might ask whether they would check the drop wire connections on the BT side of the Master Socket, as I notice we are getting some line noise recently, the dial tone is a little fuzzy.

Let me check I have got this right.

I may, or may not, get better speeds with MaxDSL, but those speeds are likely to vary much more than at present.

If I don't like what I am getting then I can revert to 2Meg, but will have to pay for this.  At this point BT are likely to say "Oh no, not with that contention figure Squire" and knock me back to something even lower.

So I may well be better off staying as I am, bearing in mind that I don't do On-Line games or download music etc.

Total downloads struggle to reach 1 Gb per month, then only when I feel the need to download yet another Linux ISO than won't work.

I just checked the Router stats, Attenuation is still 51Db, SNR is 11.  An hour ago it was 15.

As I am now connected direct from the modem into the Master Socket I assume the Attenuation is due to external factors, either the drop line or the away line.

See, I'm learning all the jargon.
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feliscatusx2

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« Reply #33 on: July 18, 2006, 07:55:40 PM »

Just two thoughts, briefly.

1. How reliable are the Netgear stats, could the little devil be lying to me?

2. Just to thank all who have replied, this must be the most helpful and friendly forum I have tried, and I've tried a few.  The worst is the F***f*x lot, ask the wrong question, or utter a word of criticism and watch the sky fall on you.

Got to go and find the cat, she does not like this hot weather, also make sure that Holby City records OK or life won't be worth living.  Mind you I could always blame the technology, again.
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kitz

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BT Phone wiring
« Reply #34 on: July 20, 2006, 12:55:51 AM »

>>> See, I'm learning all the jargon.


lol..  yep indeed you are getting the gist of things.
DSLmax is very unpredictable right now.
If it works - then great...  but there are still problems that need to be ironed out. :/

I'd love to be able to say to you all will be fine.. and it probably will be...  but theres no guarantees.

>>> Just to thank all who have replied..

You're most welcome... the master plan is to teach you all about max... then YOU can answer the questions next time  :lol:   :wink:


ps hope you found the cat.
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mr_chris

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BT Phone wiring
« Reply #35 on: July 20, 2006, 12:57:56 AM »

> 1. How reliable are the Netgear stats, could the little devil be lying to me?

Possibly. Trouble is, how do you tell? I've never had the chance of trying a Netgear on a longer line to find out how it ties in with what other devices say.

Depends which Netgear I guess too. If it's a DG834G v2 like I have, and if you've got the latest firmware, I would guess the SNR errs on the side of caution (low side), since mine frequently reports a Noise Margin of 0dB, occasionally -1dB, and still maintains a decent sync, when it really shouldn't be able to!

I guess the only thing you can do is make sure you have the latest firmware as it will hopefully fix any reporting bugs from previous versions, and also try another router/modem on the line if you can to compare findings.

Sorry this reply is a little vague, I can't really help any more than that.
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Chris

feliscatusx2

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BT Phone wiring
« Reply #36 on: July 20, 2006, 12:05:58 PM »

Yes, the cat came back.  Anybody else remember that cartoon, Canadian I think, a hoot.

Yes I have DG834 v2 with the latest firmware.  It's showing SNR of 16 at present.

We shall just have to wait & see what happens.
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feliscatusx2

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BT Phone wiring
« Reply #37 on: July 20, 2006, 09:30:51 PM »

Good news?

All the main cables in/out of Slade Green Exchange are alloy, they are due for replacement soon having reached the end of their expected life.  Given the price of copper at present I am not holding my breath 67,bbvvvvvvvvvvv (that last bit of nonsense was the cat).

BT Neighbour will send one of the lads up to check the connection on the BT side of the Master box, if I ask him nicely he may even check the other end as well.

Will this damnable heat never end...............
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kitz

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« Reply #38 on: July 21, 2006, 10:32:56 AM »

>>> they are due for replacement soon having reached the end of their expected life.

Thats some good news although it does depend on if BT have set a time frame for the work.

>> check the connection on the BT side of the Master box, if I ask him nicely he may even check the other end as well.
 
wont do any harm ;)


>> 67,bbvvvvvvvvvvv (that last bit of nonsense was the cat).
meiow to feliscatus' cat

>> Will this damnable heat never end

Seems a bit better here today - although its perhaps still a bit too early to say - however the past week or so has been stifling.
Im normally a sun lover.... but not the past few days
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feliscatusx2

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BT Phone wiring
« Reply #39 on: July 21, 2006, 11:11:41 AM »

You have to say Hello to both cats, otherwise one will sulk.  So I lied on your behalf.

Overcast here today but the temp is still 92F (I can't be having with all this metric nonsense, ask any engineer which system of measurement he would rather work in).

Thunderstorms promised for later, lovely, I do enjoy a good storm.

SNR 15
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Some people are like slinkies: they don't really have a purpose, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.

Astral

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BT Phone wiring
« Reply #40 on: July 21, 2006, 11:23:48 AM »

Quote
I do enjoy a good storm


Can do wonders for your line stats. :lol:

Direct hit on exchange could accelerate maintenance program. :twisted:
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kitz

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« Reply #41 on: July 21, 2006, 11:37:25 AM »

eke at thunderstorms forecast.

oh myyyyyyyyyyy  this is going to be fun for those users on max dsl and marginal lines.

Lets hope that the new changes that BT put into effect a couple of weeks ago work regarding DLM...  or theres going to be a heck of a few pple saying *whys my speed gone to pot*  :roll:

---------

ps hello to both puddy tats.
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feliscatusx2

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BT Phone wiring
« Reply #42 on: July 21, 2006, 07:52:08 PM »

Young cat says Hi.  Older cat says "Grump"

Older cat is one third long haired fat black female, one third Paranoid schizophrenic and one third Vampire.


Young cat is sort of black Siamese, and, for us, fairly normal.
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feliscatusx2

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Re: BT Phone wiring
« Reply #43 on: September 06, 2006, 02:49:22 PM »

BT pushed a note through the door this am to say that they will be replacing our telephone pole.  Well whoopee.  The note goes on to say that where the drop line is in anyway suspect (this could be arranged) they will replace that as well.

When, and if, they arrive I might ask nicely if they would check the wires going into the master socket, assuming that the drop line is OK.  The local BT boys mentioned earlier are either on permament 24hr shifts or have gone somewhere exotic for their hols.
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soms

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Re: BT Phone wiring
« Reply #44 on: September 10, 2006, 10:30:21 PM »

Quote
BT pushed a note through the door this am to say that they will be replacing our telephone pole.  Well whoopee.

As unimportant as it might seem, it is a alot of effort replacing a pole lol.
I recently became a BT apprentice and have seen some of the equipment and seen some of the training (done some ladder training) not that i will be working on the access network.

Apparently the telephone network doesn't make much money (its data and big business that brings in the money) so the fact it is maintained is not a bad thing, especially if they do look out for any drop wire problems when making the change.

Most of the pole replacement is to do with height regulations in certain areas as much as renewal programme for old/rotten posts etc. There have been a few serious accidents resulting from low cables.

Unfortunately the more recent distribution cable stays are pretty ugly things - being totally random there. Not that it is important to most people.
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